Repenting After Death

[agnosticator]

So Florduh, how will a person know which Christian is right? My friend apparently thinks gays committed the unpardonable sin and I suppose he would use some text from the bible to support his views.

I, on the other hand, think that gays are people just like anybody else and like everyone else, they fall short of God's glory and they need mercy, love and compassion and I have texts to support that. How would one know which one of us is correct?

 

Hi lil' Thumb! I see you're still Bible-bound! Since God made gays, the texts are irrelevant. God made them gay, so they are not at fault for being themselves. You are both wrong because it's all the Biblegod's fault for humans being born human.

 

edit: Crap! I didn't read all the posts! MM made the same point.

[centauri]

Hey Robotnik, once I posted I figured you'd come out of the woodwork

You once again use the standard Christian procedure to spread subjective theological gibberish in forums.

When refuted and confronted, you go away for a few weeks, then come back and start your routine all over again, thinking people won't notice.

 

Thumbelina said: Repentance after death is NOT possible - the Bible says so.

 

Centauri said: Then Jesus was wasting his time preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison.

 

1 Peter 3:19-20

By which also he(Jesus) went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

Thumbelina: See, that shows that you do NOT compare scripture with scripture and spiritual with spiritual and it's not that you aren't ABLE, you're just NOT WILLING.

This shows that you can only respond with more gibberish, pointing your accusing finger at anyone who exposes your "holy spirit" for what it is.....a subjective fairy tale spirit that lives exclusively inside your skull.

 

The bible does NOT contradict itself, it says the dead know not anything and therefore they cannot repent.

Text without context is a pretext so please quit isolating verses, OK?

The Bible does contradict itself and you contradict the Bible repeatedly.

You blatantly ignore context on a routine basis.

 

Let's start at verse 18:

 

18For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

 

19 By whom also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

20Who formerly were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, by which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.

 

The HS preached to people in prison. Christ and the Spirit are ONE (character, purpose, love etc.)

This does nothing to solve your problem and in fact exposes it.

Jesus was wasting his time preaching to dead people if they could not repent.

 

"Jesus was ... preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison" <-- That teaching was made up by the Jesuits! They wanted to propagate their silly, mythological purgatory doctrine.

Excellent....you now lash out at fellow Christians when they don't meet your subjective standards.

The Jesuits had nothing to do with my use of these verses.

The verses clearly indicate that Jesus preached to people that were dead and were spirits in prison.

You've done nothing to change that.

 

Thumbelina said: The wicked (dead or still living) cannot repent after everyone is judged.

 

Centauri: Now you're moving the goalpost by adding the qualifier "cannot repent after everyone is judged".

So apparently they can repent after they're dead but not after being judged.

 

Thumbelina: Nah, just stating what the entire bible says on the subject.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

^

After men die the next conscious thing they will know is when they are facing God in the judgment to see what they did in the body they had.

This still does not solve your problem and opens another can of worms for you to wallow in.

Jesus went and preached to spirits of the dead.

This was a useless and meaningless effort if these people could not repent.

Furthermore, Lazarus and others were resurrected from the dead, so they died more than once, which contradicts Heb 9:27.

Show from the text of John that Lazarus faced God for his judgment before he was awakened by Jesus to live again in his body.

 

Thumbelina said: The ones who get marked in the right hand are basically PERPETUAL secularists, atheists, ignostics, agnostics and lone ranger believers who had their heads in the dirt and did not resist the devil and actively follow God.

 

Robotnik, um, Centauri said: Do you include yourself in this mix of "heads in the dirt" people?

You've tossed aside the teachings in the Hebrew scriptures in favor of the revisionist theology put forth by the Christian cult.

You also haven't established that you actively follow the Bible God or defined what a "lone ranger believer" is.

 

Thumbelina: My head is above ground, matey. Christianity is in harmony with the Hebrew scriptures.

No it is not.

Every time this lie has been exposed you pull one of your vanishing acts and then return weeks later pretending that the posts never existed.

From past examples:

Show where a human is a valid sacrifice for sin under the law of God.

Show where the Hebrew scriptures define the new covevnat as being based on the blood of a human sacrifice.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where an expected king messiah would be the end of the law.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where a king messiah would require a second coming thousands of years after his first visit, to accomplish his tasks and sit on the throne of David.

 

You have to take that I "actively follow the Bible God", on faith, my dear

I wouldn't trust you anymore than I trust a telemarketer that makes cold calls to little old ladies, asking them for their social security number so they can claim a prize.

 

So, you're curious as to what a lone ranger believer is ? It's one of those people who forsakes the assembling with other believers in order to cherry pick doctrines to suit their fancy.

What makes you think cherry picking doctrines is limited to individual believers and isn't practiced by large congregations?

 

Thumbelina said: Did the firstborns of the wicked in Egypt get another chance to live and then repent when they did not have the blood over their door posts? Rebellious people do not love the truth and they will not want to ( and therefore choose not to ) repent.

 

Centauri said: How do you know that these people were not being held in the prison Jesus went to and preached in?

 

Thumbelina: Cuz the bible says the dead are asleep and they did not ascend to heaven or go to hell because hell will be this whole earth on fire and we're still here. Hell will be God's glory burning up the wicked and this bloody ( literally) earth.

Then you deny that Jesus went to a prison and preached to the spirits of dead people, which means you deny one set of verses in favor of another. You're a cherry picker.

[centauri]

Probation ends at death therefore there can be no repentance.

Then Jesus was wasting his time preaching to dead spirits.

[Xerces]

The HS inside me tells me you're wrong Thumbs.

 

It's an unholy spirit talking to ya.

 

[bornagainathiest]

... I refute teachings that do not match scripture. I said this MANY times.

 

Nothing can be refuted by a personal opinion Thumbelina.

 

Proof and evidence that don't rely on a person's opinions do!

 

BAA.

Her argument is actually that she's right because the Holy Spirit confirms her interpretations. So just listen to the Holy Spirit, and he'll tell you. What she's saying doesn't really matter since it must come to what the HS says, not what she says. I've been listening to my Holy Spirit, and he tells me she's wrong.

 

Not really, O.

 

It's a closed circle with no wriggle room!

 

Thumbelina's right because the Holy Spirit confirms her interpretations and the Holy Spirit only confirms her interpretations, so she must be right! You've noticed that she says that the Holy Spirit will only confirm scripture? So, because He confirms her interpretation, hers MUST be the correct one.

 

Also, look who's in the position of authority here.

 

The Holy Spirit confirms her interpretations, so He's under her authority, not vice versa. Whatever Thumbelina's interpretation is, He will confirm it. That's His job-description. It reads, "Always confirm Thumbelina's interpretation of scripture as the correct one."

 

Got that?

 

BAA.

[Thumbelina]

 

Oy vey, Robotnik! You're off on your usual tangent and not getting what I tried to communicate at all. I'll talk to you another time, hopefully. Enjoy your weekend and try to relax a little, m'kay

[centauri]

 

Oy vey, Robotnik! You're off on your usual tangent and not getting what I tried to communicate at all. I'll talk to you another time, hopefully. Enjoy your weekend and try to relax a little, m'kay

Your attempts to communicate are nothing more than subjective sermons designed to intimidate people.

[Thumbelina]

 

Oy vey, Robotnik! You're off on your usual tangent and not getting what I tried to communicate at all. I'll talk to you another time, hopefully. Enjoy your weekend and try to relax a little, m'kay

Your attempts to communicate are nothing more than subjective sermons designed to intimidate people.

 

Hey darlin'. What? Lil' ol' me can't intimidate anyone, we both know you have a vivid imagination.

[mymistake]

 

Oy vey, Robotnik! You're off on your usual tangent and not getting what I tried to communicate at all. I'll talk to you another time, hopefully. Enjoy your weekend and try to relax a little, m'kay

Your attempts to communicate are nothing more than subjective sermons designed to intimidate people.

 

Hey darlin'. What? Lil' ol' me can't intimidate anyone, we both know you have a vivid imagination.

 

He didn't say you succeed.

[Thumbelina]

 

Oy vey, Robotnik! You're off on your usual tangent and not getting what I tried to communicate at all. I'll talk to you another time, hopefully. Enjoy your weekend and try to relax a little, m'kay

Your attempts to communicate are nothing more than subjective sermons designed to intimidate people.

 

Hey darlin'. What? Lil' ol' me can't intimidate anyone, we both know you have a vivid imagination.

 

He didn't say you succeed.

[mymistake]

Your attempts to communicate are nothing more than subjective sermons designed to intimidate people.

 

Hey darlin'. What? Lil' ol' me can't intimidate anyone, we both know you have a vivid imagination.

 

He didn't say you succeed.

 

Okay if you know that you will never succeed then why don't you drop the nonsense about hell, sin, changing our lives for God and the other offensive dogma? You enjoy whatever religion works for you and accept that the people here are going to be happy to talk with you about anything that isn't religious in nature. If you are never going to succeed and you know you will never succeed they why stir the pot?

[Thumbelina]

Your attempts to communicate are nothing more than subjective sermons designed to intimidate people.

 

Hey darlin'. What? Lil' ol' me can't intimidate anyone, we both know you have a vivid imagination.

 

He didn't say you succeed.

 

Okay if you know that you will never succeed then why don't you drop the nonsense about hell, sin, changing our lives for God and the other offensive dogma? You enjoy whatever religion works for you and accept that the people here are going to be happy to talk with you about anything that isn't religious in nature. If you are never going to succeed and you know you will never succeed they why stir the pot?

 

I don't preach eternal damnation but I would be remiss not to warn people about hell because I do believe in destruction (not perpetual destroying). I believe this: For Christ's love compels us, ...

[mymistake]

Okay if you know that you will never succeed then why don't you drop the nonsense about hell, sin, changing our lives for God and the other offensive dogma? You enjoy whatever religion works for you and accept that the people here are going to be happy to talk with you about anything that isn't religious in nature. If you are never going to succeed and you know you will never succeed they why stir the pot?

 

I don't preach eternal damnation but I would be remiss not to warn people about hell because I do believe in destruction (not perpetual destroying). I believe this: For Christ's love compels us, ...

 

Why doesn't Christ's love compel you to treat people better around here? Again it's strange that an atheist has to explain it.

[Thumbelina]

Okay if you know that you will never succeed then why don't you drop the nonsense about hell, sin, changing our lives for God and the other offensive dogma? You enjoy whatever religion works for you and accept that the people here are going to be happy to talk with you about anything that isn't religious in nature. If you are never going to succeed and you know you will never succeed they why stir the pot?

 

I don't preach eternal damnation but I would be remiss not to warn people about hell because I do believe in destruction (not perpetual destroying). I believe this: For Christ's love compels us, ...

 

Why doesn't Christ's love compel you to treat people better around here? Again it's strange that an atheist has to explain it.

 

I admit to putting my foot in my mouth at times but some people don't seem to mind my teasing. People around here are pretty straightforward so if I do something wrong, they let me know!

[mymistake]

Why doesn't Christ's love compel you to treat people better around here? Again it's strange that an atheist has to explain it.

 

I admit to putting my foot in my mouth at times but some people don't seem to mind my teasing. People around here are pretty straightforward so if I do something wrong, they let me know!

 

And then you demand to know why they are trolling your posts. That is what you call it when they let you know.

 

You are never going bring anybody back to Christ using these tactic. If you want to have a chance then be respectful of others. Live 1 Cor 13 towards ex-Christians. When people insult you do the thing the Bible says you should and turn the other cheek. Stop talking about theology to people who are not interested. Instead show them that Christians can be cool.

[florduh]

Hey T, does Christ's love ever compel you to mud wrestle?

[Thumbelina]

Why doesn't Christ's love compel you to treat people better around here? Again it's strange that an atheist has to explain it.

 

I admit to putting my foot in my mouth at times but some people don't seem to mind my teasing. People around here are pretty straightforward so if I do something wrong, they let me know!

 

And then you demand to know why they are trolling your posts. That is what you call it when they let you know.

 

You are never going bring anybody back to Christ using these tactic. If you want to have a chance then be respectful of others. Live 1 Cor 13 towards ex-Christians. When people insult you do the thing the Bible says you should and turn the other cheek. Stop talking about theology to people who are not interested. Instead show them that Christians can be cool.

 

I did not say they troll my posts, I said you troll my posts.

 

As I said, if a person sees what I say as disrespectful they should let me know. I tend not to retaliate to people who insult me. I spar with lions who have strong backs!

 

I cannot take a person's eyeballs and force them to read what I write. If a person wants to talk to me then they will, if they don't want to then they won't.

[Thumbelina]

Hey T, does Christ's love ever compel you to mud wrestle?

 

 

Hey Florduh, are you up to no good?

[mymistake]

Why doesn't Christ's love compel you to treat people better around here? Again it's strange that an atheist has to explain it.

I admit to putting my foot in my mouth at times but some people don't seem to mind my teasing. People around here are pretty straightforward so if I do something wrong, they let me know!

And then you demand to know why they are trolling your posts. That is what you call it when they let you know. You are never going bring anybody back to Christ using these tactic. If you want to have a chance then be respectful of others. Live 1 Cor 13 towards ex-Christians. When people insult you do the thing the Bible says you should and turn the other cheek. Stop talking about theology to people who are not interested. Instead show them that Christians can be cool.

I did not say they troll my posts, I said you troll my posts.

 

What kind of double talk is that? Your dishonesty stinks. If I believed God was real I would be worried about the way you behavior hurts Christianity.

 

As I said, if a person sees what I say as disrespectful they should let me know.

 

I did. The result was that you bore false witness and said it's okay because you believe your false witness. This God who hates sin - is He more interested in you saying things that are actually true or when he tells you "thou shalt not bear false witness" is He telling you to share your opinion?

[Thumbelina]

Why doesn't Christ's love compel you to treat people better around here? Again it's strange that an atheist has to explain it.

I admit to putting my foot in my mouth at times but some people don't seem to mind my teasing. People around here are pretty straightforward so if I do something wrong, they let me know!

And then you demand to know why they are trolling your posts. That is what you call it when they let you know. You are never going bring anybody back to Christ using these tactic. If you want to have a chance then be respectful of others. Live 1 Cor 13 towards ex-Christians. When people insult you do the thing the Bible says you should and turn the other cheek. Stop talking about theology to people who are not interested. Instead show them that Christians can be cool.

I did not say they troll my posts, I said you troll my posts.

 

What kind of double talk is that? Your dishonesty stinks. If I believed God was real I would be worried about the way you behavior hurts Christianity.

 

 

 

 

http://www.ex-christ...post__p__734780

 

Good night MM and I still love you.

 

You remind me of BAA.

[centauri]

 

Oy vey, Robotnik! You're off on your usual tangent and not getting what I tried to communicate at all. I'll talk to you another time, hopefully. Enjoy your weekend and try to relax a little, m'kay

Your attempts to communicate are nothing more than subjective sermons designed to intimidate people.

 

Hey darlin'. What? Lil' ol' me can't intimidate anyone, we both know you have a vivid imagination.

It's not my imagination that you desire to preach and correct people that you imagine are lost, have their heads in the sand, are disobedient to "God", etc, etc.

You set yourself up as an authority on the divine, complete with superior knowledge and understanding.

It's not my imagination that the prime directive of Christianity is to spread itself and dominate over all other belief systems.

 

2 Cor 10:5-6

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

It's not my imagination that over the years there has been a parade of Christian zealots coming here, all claiming to be hotwired to the mind of God, insisting that they represent divine authority.

It's also not my imagination that Christianity spends billions of dollars trying to jam its agenda down the throats of anyone with a pulse.

Vivid imagination indeed.

[mymistake]

Why doesn't Christ's love compel you to treat people better around here? Again it's strange that an atheist has to explain it.

I admit to putting my foot in my mouth at times but some people don't seem to mind my teasing. People around here are pretty straightforward so if I do something wrong, they let me know!

And then you demand to know why they are trolling your posts. That is what you call it when they let you know. You are never going bring anybody back to Christ using these tactic. If you want to have a chance then be respectful of others. Live 1 Cor 13 towards ex-Christians. When people insult you do the thing the Bible says you should and turn the other cheek. Stop talking about theology to people who are not interested. Instead show them that Christians can be cool.

I did not say they troll my posts, I said you troll my posts.

 

What kind of double talk is that? Your dishonesty stinks. If I believed God was real I would be worried about the way you behavior hurts Christianity.

 

 

 

 

http://www.ex-christ...post__p__734780

 

 

 

See? I let you know and your response to that is a false witness about trolling. You are a shame to your religion. It's right there.

 

Good night MM and I still love you.

 

If you loved me you would be honest.

 

1 Cor 13

" . . . love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth."

 

 

You remind me of BAA.

 

Somebody else you constantly lose to in debate.

[Xerces]

 

I don't preach eternal damnation but I would be remiss not to warn people about hell (snipped)

 

You don't but you do?

[bornagainathiest]

I don't preach eternal damnation but I would be remiss not to warn people about hell (snipped)

 

You don't but you do?

 

To be fair Xerces, Thumbelina doesn't preach eternal damnation... just damnation for a limited time. That is, until sinners are completely destroyed!

 

That's because she's an Annihiliationist... http://en.wikipedia....Annihilationism ...and, most likely, a Seventh Day Adventist. http://en.wikipedia....dventist_Church However, when asked out straight, she just dodges and refuses to confirm our suspicions about her. If she is an SDA, then she'll be a Creationist too. But she's also dodged any question put to her about how the Genesis narrative doesn't square up with what science tells us about the Big Bang, Dinosaurs, Evolution, etc.

 

On the flip side, the 100% truthful and devout Christians who run this site... http://www.godsplanforall.com ...don't preach eternal damnation either. They say that ALL sinners will eventually repent after they've been cast into the Lake of Fire. Which is the doctrine of Christian Universalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Universalism

 

Naturally enough, Thumbelina thinks that they're false prophets and I'm sure if they were asked about her beliefs, they'd say the same about her. Which just goes to show, that the so-called inerrant, infallible and perfect Bible is so vague, ambiguous and contradictory that you can cut just about any way you like and still say that you are right and 'they' are wrong.

Imho, scripture is ALL crap and sad, incomplete people like Thumbelina just use it to fill the emptiness of their lives.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Thumbelina]

Disclaimer: To anyone who is not familiar with exchages between Centauri and I, I sass/ back talk him in my posts and he gives back as good as he gets *giggle* so please don't think we're hating on each other OK? It gives a little umph to the posts.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Hey Robotnik, once I posted I figured you'd come out of the woodwork.

Centauri said: You once again use the standard Christian procedure to spread subjective theological gibberish in forums.

When refuted and confronted, you go away for a few weeks, then come back and start your routine all over again, thinking people won't notice.

 

What's highlighted in red, I know you do that but d'you have to accuse me of doing what you do? Where you have standard Christian, I'd put 'standard skeptic'.

 

I go away sometimes for different reasons Mr. read the heart & mind of people/ Mr thinks he's God. Sometimes there is physical troubles on my end and I don't get to respond. Sometimes I forget which thread or where I was responding. Eh and sometimes I temporarily give up on you ( talking to deaf ears ain't easy) but I guess there's a fondness for you and I believe about God and hell etc. and I don't want you to be lost so I come back.

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Repentance after death is NOT possible - the Bible says so.

 

Centauri said: Then Jesus was wasting his time preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison.

 

1 Peter 3:19-20

By which also he(Jesus) went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

Thumbelina said: See, that shows that you do NOT compare scripture with scripture and spiritual with spiritual and it's not that you aren't ABLE, you're just NOT WILLING.

 

Centauri said:This shows that you can only respond with more gibberish, pointing your accusing finger at anyone who exposes your "holy spirit" for what it is.....a subjective fairy tale spirit that lives exclusively inside your skull.

 

Ah my boy, the HS is available for whomever truly wants Him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said:The bible does NOT contradict itself, it says the dead know not anything and therefore they cannot repent.

Text without context is a pretext so please quit isolating verses, OK?

 

 

Centauri said:The Bible does contradict itself and you contradict the Bible repeatedly.

You blatantly ignore context on a routine basis.

 

What you said makes no sense, man and I do not contradict the bible, you're the one preaching an anti gospel.

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: Let's start at verse 18:

 

 

18For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

 

19 By whom also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

 

20Who formerly were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, by which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.

 

The HS preached to people in prison. Christ and the Spirit are ONE (character, purpose, love etc.)

 

 

 

Centauri said: This does nothing to solve your problem and in fact exposes it.

Jesus was wasting his time preaching to dead people if they could not repent.

 

Centauri dear, it is you that have the problem, the text clearly states that Jesus' gospel was preached to spiritually dead people (atheists & virtual atheists) via the Holy Spirit. That is a biblical doctrine, when people are not striving with God they are dead! (spiritually) Eph. 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, has made us alive together with Christ, (by grace you are saved

 

Many people CHOSE to remain dead as the texts gave the example of the antediluvians who rejected salvation and only Noah and his family CHOSE to live or be alive.

There's this former atheist pastor that I like to listen to and I like to watch him too (he's quite animated), he's wonderful at expounding the Word. He gave an analogy one time, he said, picture going canoeing one day and you're enjoying yourself on the lake and then out of the blue something hit your canoe with a loud thud and you look and it's a body, the person is d-e-a-d, dead! ( he did a good job of acting as a dead body hitting the canoe btw) He then said, picture canoeing on the lake again but this time you hear gargling noises and a person gasping for air and picture them just managing to cry out for help. He then asked 'what would you prefer to see, the dead person or the drowning person?' Of course a normal person will prefer to see the drowning person because there is still hope.

 

Well, the bible describes people who are not responding to the wooing of the HS as dead and when one finally responds and accepts Jesus, the bible says they are alive. Christ's disciples understand His analogies, Centauri and you are being TOO literal in your interpretations. Kind of like the Jews in the bible who walked around with phylacteries on their head or arm and yet did not care for their fellow man, thus making the law of no effect. It's like Christians who want the ten commandments written down in public places and then turn right around and spew hate by telling people that God hates them. They are being so literal that they don't see the spiritual lesson than God wanted/wants to teach us.

 

...........

 

 

"Jesus was ... preaching to disobedient people that died long ago and were being held in prison" <-- That teaching was made up by the Jesuits! They wanted to propagate their silly, mythological purgatory doctrine.

 

Centauri said: Excellent....you now lash out at fellow Christians when they don't meet your subjective standards.

The Jesuits had nothing to do with my use of these verses.

The verses clearly indicate that Jesus preached to people that were dead and were spirits in prison.

You've done nothing to change that.

 

I was not lashing out, I was passionately stating that the teaching is not a biblical one but was based on man made traditions, not inspired by the HS at all. You can be like the jesuits and the writers of Greek mythology and take those verses literally if you want. Literally dead people are literally dead and can't respond to squat!

 

......

 

 

Thumbelina said: The wicked (dead or still living) cannot repent after everyone is judged.

 

Centauri said: Now you're moving the goalpost by adding the qualifier "cannot repent after everyone is judged".

So apparently they can repent after they're dead but not after being judged.

 

Thumbelina said: Nah, just stating what the entire bible says on the subject.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

^

After men die the next conscious thing they will know is when they are facing God in the judgment to see what they did in the body they had.

 

Centauri said: This still does not solve your problem and opens another can of worms for you to wallow in.

Jesus went and preached to spirits of the dead.

This was a useless and meaningless effort if these people could not repent.

Furthermore, Lazarus and others were resurrected from the dead, so they died more than once, which contradicts Heb 9:27.

Show from the text of John that Lazarus faced God for his judgment before he was awakened by Jesus to live again in his body.

 

I addressed what preaching to the dead means already. Yeah, Lazarus died (the first death) twice. There are two types of deaths in the bible. The first death is the death that ALL of us are subjected to. We all start to die as soon as we are born, we are in the process of dying. Lazarus experienced this twice. There is a second death described in the bible and that death is where spirits in prison CHOSE to remain dead and they will subsequently be consumed/devoured by God's Holy presence which to them will be utter hell or hellfire as it were. They will not be able to dwell with everlasting burnings because they never repented when the HS was pleading with them.

 

 

Lazurus' name was written down in the book of life, he did nothing to have his name stricken off of that book. God did not begin examining the books at that time. The lives of humans are recorded in books and the dead remain asleep in the graves until the resurrection.

 

 

 

.........

 

 

Thumbelina said: The ones who get marked in the right hand are basically PERPETUAL secularists, atheists, ignostics, agnostics and lone ranger believers who had their heads in the dirt and did not resist the devil and actively follow God.

 

Robotnik, um, Centauri said: Do you include yourself in this mix of "heads in the dirt" people?

You've tossed aside the teachings in the Hebrew scriptures in favor of the revisionist theology put forth by the Christian cult.

You also haven't established that you actively follow the Bible God or defined what a "lone ranger believer" is.

 

Thumbelina said: My head is above ground, matey. Christianity is in harmony with the Hebrew scriptures.

 

 

Centauri said: No it is not.

Yes it is!

 

 

 

Centauri said: Every time this lie has been exposed you pull one of your vanishing acts and then return weeks later pretending that the posts never existed.

 

Well maybe you can tell me how to talk to likable people with didactic reasoning? (skeptics do that A LOT! ) You have repeatedly used that type of reasoning when I tried to talk with you, it's like talking to a robot! I reckon you're scared to look at the texts objectively, ya chicken, ya!!! (sorry Centauri, you know subtlety is not my forte and you know I luv you )

As I said, I know you are able to look at the texts and I think you can go back and forth in scriptures to eventually get the gospel but you SEEM scared to for some reason. I know you had bad experiences with Christianity before but dang dude, at least look at the texts objectively!

 

 

 

Centauri said: From past examples:

Show where a human is a valid sacrifice for sin under the law of God.

Show where the Hebrew scriptures define the new covevnat as being based on the blood of a human sacrifice.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where an expected king messiah would be the end of the law.

Show from the Hebrew scriptures where a king messiah would require a second coming thousands of years after his first visit, to accomplish his tasks and sit on the throne of David.

 

I wanted to show you (remember I started a thread to chat with you?) but the bible has MANY interlocking doctrines and you are not looking at the bible the way it stipulates that it should be looked at and that's why I don't bother sometimes and because I like you and you do raise good questions and I attempt to answer but then you start doing the robotic, 'I'm debukin' and not listenin' ' thing again. Also, since talking with you I've been learning more and more about the bible and having my faith affirmed. You're also motivating me to study more. I'd do this: *bow emoticon* to you but it's a sin to bow to idols

 

If you ever stop doing that didactic reasoning thing then we can actually chat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have to take that I "actively follow the Bible God", on faith, my dear

 

Centauri said: I wouldn't trust you anymore than I trust a telemarketer that makes cold calls to little old ladies, asking them for their social security number so they can claim a prize.

 

Don't worry darlin', I'm prayin' that you'll eventually listen to the HS and you can get the reward of eternal life.

 

 

 

...........

 

 

Thumbelina said: So, you're curious as to what a lone ranger believer is ? It's one of those people who forsakes the assembling with other believers in order to cherry pick doctrines to suit their fancy.

 

Centauri said: What makes you think cherry picking doctrines is limited to individual believers and isn't practiced by large congregations?

 

Did I say that large congregations don't/won't cherry pick doctrines? I was talking about lone ranger Christians.

....

 

Thumbelina said: Did the firstborns of the wicked in Egypt get another chance to live and then repent when they did not have the blood over their door posts? Rebellious people do not love the truth and they will not want to ( and therefore choose not to ) repent.

 

Centauri said: How do you know that these people were not being held in the prison Jesus went to and preached in?

 

Thumbelina said: Cuz the bible says the dead are asleep and they did not ascend to heaven or go to hell because hell will be this whole earth on fire and we're still here. Hell will be God's glory burning up the wicked and this bloody ( literally) earth.

 

Then you deny that Jesus went to a prison and preached to the spirits of dead people, which means you deny one set of verses in favor of another. You're a cherry picker.

 

 

... and you're a tangent goer! I'm preaching to you dead spirits right now (according to what the bible teaches) but I have to pray earnestly for the HS to reach your naughty ( scared in your case, eh? ) hides but ultimately it's your CHOICE to accept or reject the gospel.

 

 

 

 

...............

 

Centauri, you don't use emoticons so I can't tell if any of my sassin' ever bothers you, if you ever think I go overboard let me know, OK?