Repenting After Death

[centauri]

The HS speaks to the believer and mainly through the Word. The HS would not instruct a believer to adopt doctrines that are contradictory to the Word. Therefore a person has to follow teachings that most closely follows the bible.

If this was really true, Christians wouldn't have changed the day of the sabbath, tossed out God's law on clean foods, adopted a pagan blood drinking ritual, and wouldn't worship a vicarious human sacrifice that was illegal according to God's law.

Every one of these is contradictory to the Word.

[bornagainathiest]

...people are at different stages in their conversion. They may have besetting sins that hinder their spiritual growth.

 

But that couldn't be YOU. It must be that those who don't understand things the same as you do are not quite as spiritually matured as you (and therefore not favored with the true interpretation).

 

Congratulations, then.

 

I have sins that plague me, like being really timid. I should have been more advanced in my spiritual growth but I do see where God has been guiding me and revealing His truth to me. The bible says all things work together for good for those who love God, maybe my being timid is a way to show God's strength in my weakness.

 

Or you could just stop wasting your life....?

 

You could be doing what Christians should do.

What Jesus himself expects you to do.

What the Bible says you should do.

 

Things like...

 

Selling all that you own and giving the money to help the poor.

Feeding the hungry.

Giving a home to the homeless.

Healing the sick (or at least caring for them).

Doing as Jesus did and mixing with sinners without judging them.

 

Not...

 

Hiding away from the sinners on your doorstep by staying within the pages of scripture.

Spending (wasting) hours and hours every day delving into it.

Spending (wasting) hours and hours every day visiting on-line Bible resources.

Spending (wasting) hours and hours every day composing and posting lengthy, Bible-related messages.

Spending (wasting) hours and hours every day on the Internet...

...because it's safer than facing up to real people who live in the real world outside your front door.

 

Isn't that right, Thumbelina?

You type out the word, 'timid' but deep down you're not just timid - you're AFRAID!

Terrified even. Paralyzed with fear and using the Bible to escape your responsibilities.... hmmm?

Ain't that so?

 

For you, 'spiritual growth' doesn't mean becoming less timid, does it?

 

Uh-huh!

 

It means finding more convincing excuses to stay on-line or indoors or in Church, right? Anything that helps keep you feeling safe, huh? Well, sorry to pop your balloon babe, but getting your hands dirty caring for the sick and the poor and the 'lost' is exactly what you should be doing.

 

Read this, remember your words to Florduh... and weep.

 

The Sheep and the Goats

 

³¹ “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. ³² All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. ³³ He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

³⁴ “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. ³⁵ For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, ³⁶ I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

³⁷ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? ³⁸ When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? ³⁹ When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

⁴⁰ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

⁴¹ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ⁴² For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, ⁴³ I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

⁴⁴ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

⁴⁵ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

⁴⁶ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

BAA.

[bornagainathiest]

...you need to show some credentials that you know better than the other Christians who tell us something different.

I ask again.

 

Sorry Florduh.

 

But by her own admission of timidity, Thumbelina lacks any of the credentials that really count. That is, any of the ones Jesus said (many times!) were important.

 

Credentials like producing good spiritual fruit or loving God by her actions and with her life. True love overcomes fear, right? But being timid and not overcoming her fear, Thumbelina hides behind the Bible, using her excessive devotion to a book as an excuse to avoid doing what she should do for other people.

 

Sheltering the homeless? No.

Feeding the hungry? No.

Caring for the sick? No.

Visiting those in prison? No.

Selling all she has and giving the money to the poor? No.

 

None of the above.

Thumbelina would rather spend her time in the safe company of a Bible rather than with any poor, sick or homeless person. She's rather read about caring for these people than actually doing it!

 

Yet, some Ex-Christian members of this forum have done all of these things, faithfully serving God by serving others. They have the credentials that she lacks. They did put their faith in Him - when she's too timid (i.e. too scared) to do the same.

 

And you know what, Florduh?

Thumbelina's only too happy to lecture them on where they went wrong in their understanding of God. The unfledged rookie who can barely set foot outside her own door without fear and loathing of the secular world (her own words!), has the infernal gall to try and correct them!

 

Credentials? Thumbelina?

 

Don't make me laugh!

 

BAA.

[florduh]

Sorry Florduh.

 

Damn! I thought she had the inside track on what God was trying to tell us in his book, not misinformation like all the other Christians bring here.

 

So I guess I'll just have to go back to the mud wrestling angle. Pity.

[bornagainathiest]

Sorry Florduh.

 

Damn! I thought she had the inside track on what God was trying to tell us in his book, not misinformation like all the other Christians bring here.

 

So I guess I'll just have to go back to the mud wrestling angle. Pity.

 

For what it's worth Florduh, I'd like to see Thumby wrasslin' or wallowin' in the mud too!

 

Anyway, here's what the word, MUD yields over at Biblegateway.com...

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=mud&version1=31&searchtype=all

 

and the word, WRESTLE...

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=wrestle&searchtype=all&version1=31&language1=en&spanbegin=1&spanend=73

 

Slim pickins.

 

BAA.

[florduh]

For what it's worth Florduh, I'd like to see Thumby wrasslin' or wallowin' in the mud too!

Then join me in my efforts to get her naked body covered in mud and writhing like a serpent!

 

At least then this thread might have some value. As it is, it's become just one more Christian who claims to have the right answers but can't show why she's right and the other Christians are wrong. Boring.

[bornagainathiest]

For what it's worth Florduh, I'd like to see Thumby wrasslin' or wallowin' in the mud too!

Then join me in my efforts to get her naked body covered in mud and writhing like a serpent!

 

At least then this thread might have some value. As it is, it's become just one more Christian who claims to have the right answers but can't show why she's right and the other Christians are wrong. Boring.

 

Oooooh! You naughty boy.

 

But you'd better drop the serpent angle. Our humorless, uptight little miss won't want to be compared in any way to, "that ancient serpent... who leads the whole world astray". Ole Luci, as she calls him.

 

Couldn't you just turn on the charm Florduh, like Ugly George used to? (**** me! I'm showing my age now.)

 

BAA.

[florduh]

Couldn't you just turn on the charm Florduh

Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness after the fall. Since Jesus the Redeemer has come, believers are forgiven of their sins! Yay!

 

What could be more beautiful than a redeemed body, made in the image of the Lord? Such a faithful follower of the Word should be edified to bask in the unfettered glory of her beauty that reflects God Himself!

 

Glory!

[mymistake]

Couldn't you just turn on the charm Florduh

Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness after the fall. Since Jesus the Redeemer has come, believers are forgiven of their sins! Yay!

 

What could be more beautiful than a redeemed body, made in the image of the Lord? Such a faithful follower of the Word should be edified to bask in the unfettered glory of her beauty that reflects God Himself!

 

Glory!

 

Nurse, get that man some porn, STAT!

 

Worse case I've ever seen.

[Deva]

Couldn't you just turn on the charm Florduh

Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness after the fall. Since Jesus the Redeemer has come, believers are forgiven of their sins! Yay!

 

What could be more beautiful than a redeemed body, made in the image of the Lord? Such a faithful follower of the Word should be edified to bask in the unfettered glory of her beauty that reflects God Himself!

 

Glory!

 

 

Preach it brother! GLORY!

[Deva]

For what it's worth Florduh, I'd like to see Thumby wrasslin' or wallowin' in the mud too!

Then join me in my efforts to get her naked body covered in mud and writhing like a serpent!

 

At least then this thread might have some value. As it is, it's become just one more Christian who claims to have the right answers but can't show why she's right and the other Christians are wrong. Boring.

 

Oooooh! You naughty boy.

 

But you'd better drop the serpent angle. Our humorless, uptight little miss won't want to be compared in any way to, "that ancient serpent... who leads the whole world astray". Ole Luci, as she calls him.

 

Couldn't you just turn on the charm Florduh, like Ugly George used to? (**** me! I'm showing my age now.)

 

BAA.

 

 

BAA:

This obsession only demonstrates that Florduh's just not right.

[florduh]

This obsession only demonstrates that Florduh's just not right.

I appreciate the astute observation.

[Thumbelina]

 

1 Peter 3:13-22

 

Suffering for Doing Good

 

13And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? 14But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18 For Christ also hath ref. Rom 5:6 once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, ref. 2 Cor 13:4 being put to death ref Col 1:21 in the flesh, but ref Rom 1:4 quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and ref 1 Pet 1:12 preached unto the spirits ref Isa 42:7 in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, ref. Gen 6:3,5 when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while ref Heb 11:7 the ark was a preparing, ref Gen 7:7 wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

ref = cross references

Many people are CONFUSED by a portion of the above passage. They think that 1 Peter 3: 18, 19 ( 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; ) is saying that Jesus' disembodied Spirit went to hell and preached to spirits who are dead, disembodied people. This is not the case and contradicts scripture.

It states that Jesus by the power of the spirit, went and preached to spirits held in prison.

The burden of proof is on you to establish beyond any doubt that Jesus never made such a trip or ever preached to disembodied spirits.

That's going to be difficult without denying what the text says, but I'm sure that won't stop you from denying it regardless.

You'll deny anything in the Bible if it doesn't suit your fancy.

That's been your consistent pattern.

You don't like this teaching, and as such, your personal whims will always trump scripture.

Unfortunately for you, your whims are not binding on anyone here.

You have no authority to define right and wrong interpretation.

You can only give your subjective opinions...oh but wait, you've already claimed that your teachings aren't subjective, they represent absolute truth as imparted to you by some celestial being called the "Holy Spirit" (which you've yet to prove as existing).

You fancy yourself to be an official mouthpiece for "God".

That's how deeply you've sunk into your own little fantasy world.

I'm thankful others have noticed this, and it was worth taking the time for you to expose yourself like that.

 

The doctrine does not contradict scripture and is affirmed by the Apostles' Creed, which states:

 

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:

3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:

4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

Variation:He descended to the dead)

5. The third day he rose again from the dead:....

 

The Athanasian Creed also affirms the descent of Jesus into hell.

 

...Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

 

 

That's two key Christian creeds you've contradicted.

The burden of proof is on you to establish beyond doubt that these elements of doctrine were not derived from 1 Peter 3:19, and are in fact false and deceptive teachings.

Furthermore, you haven't established that the Christians that promote this creed aren't guided by the Holy Spirit.

You haven't even established that you're a genuine Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus did go to hell!

Jesus went to hell/the grave (hades) for us, the Holy Spirit's job (one of them) is to convict the World of their sin and present Jesus to them; John 3:16 sums that up. That's what Peter means that Jesus spoke (via the HS) to spirits in prison.

 

Jesus is innately immortal which is why he became a man in order to live a victorious life and take hell/death upon Himself for ALL mankind, i.e. whomever accepts His gift ( the only way for Him to die the 1st death was for Him to become a man). Those who reject His gift of eternal life will die the 2nd death in hell (Gehenna, a place of burning).

 

[Edit] Jesus had His plan of salvation BEFORE the foundation of the world, Revelation calls it the everlasting gospel and the HS convicted the OT people about this, that's why it says Jesus preached to the spirits in prison.

 

A genuine Christian strives to keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. I have both, Sir.

 

 

 

 

--------------------

 

People CANNOT repent after they are permanently dead, their fate is sealed! ( See Ecc 9:10; Isa 38:18; Ecc 9:5; Job 14:21; Acts 2:29-34 )

 

 

So now it's become "permanently" dead rather than just physically dead.

That's a nice qualifier that you added.

Regardless, the spirits of the dead in 1 Peter 3:19 were preached to by Jesus.

If these souls couldn't be salvaged, then there was no victory to be proclaimed and no point in preaching to them.

 

 

I put permanently because of your not listenin' just debunkin' trick, when I told you the bible has TWO types of death ( The 1st death is the death we are subjected to and the 2nd death is destruction in hellfire ) you decided that people such as Lazarus did not qualify for my explanations. Just like the Pharisees, you Sir are being quite difficult but I know you're frightened so I gotta be patient with you

 

-----------------------

 

 

 

Peter was not saying that Jesus preached to disembodied spirits, he was saying that the people are NOW dead and those antediluvians were spiritually dead or in bondage when the gospel was preached to them for 120 years and they CONTINUE their imprisonment for they will die the second death.

 

 

Jesus went and preached to spirits in prison.

1 Peter 3:19

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

A specific trip was made to preach to dead people because the end of the world was at hand.

1 Peter 4:5-7

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

 

 

Centauri, the bible does not teach that people have innately immortal souls, that is a perpetuating of the devil's lie of " Ye shall not surely die:" and most of the world is STILL falling for it hook, line and sinker. They either teach that God will burn people forever which means that the people are innately immortal or they teach that the people will be in limbo or that everyone will get a free pass into heaven even though many people will be unrepentant. One needs to not follow popular teachings that contradict the Word but to study the Word for ones self and the texts WILL show exactly how good God is.

 

 

----------------------

 

AGAIN I say, one NEEDS to use the cross references ( I put some of then in, in the above passage) and compare scripture with scripture or spiritual with spiritual to comprehend the message.

It is useless to ISOLATE texts and wrongly divide the word (http://bible.cc/2_timothy/2-15.htm).

 

 

It's also useless to rewrite scripture to conform to your whims.

The Christians that adhere to the Apostles Creed and Athanasian Creed have no problem with the teaching that Jesus descended to "hell".

The burden of proof is once again on you to establish beyond doubt that they wrongly divide the word.

 

 

 

I'm trying to show you my dear, but you are not listenin' or being noble like the Bereans.

 

One does NOT check doctrines out by the preacher, one checks the preacher out by checking his/her teachings by the Word! Surely you know in history the established church messed up and taught MANY things that were contrary to scripture; like one can pay their way into heaven. Martin Luther and others PROTESTED against those fallacious doctrines.

 

 

 

----------------------

 

The bible interprets itself, one has to see what the entire bible says on any given topic to form a doctrine.

 

 

Obviously, the Bible does not interpret itself.

Christians cannot agree on even basic doctrines.

You haven't established that your subjective opinions are any more valid than those of the next Christian that comes here and teaches something different.

 

 

Yes Siree! The bible does indeed interpret itself and if you accept that spittle and clay and go wash in the pool of Siloam then you can see, darlin'.

Read the second and third sentences in my comment immediately above this one.

 

 

----------------------

 

Centauri, it takes TIME to go through the texts but if you ditch watching Law and Order and other shows that fans your vivid imaginings of Christians coming to get you, then you can get through the texts ( I'm teasing, I don't know what you do but I believe you're s-c-a-r-e-d).

-----------------------------

 

Ok, I'll play along with your little game.

Thumbelina, it takes time to go through the texts but if you take time to stop absorbing the rancid Jesus juice you've injected yourself with, you might yet recover your senses.

I believe you're so s-c-a-r-e-d to face the possibility of having been duped into believing a lie that you need to come here to assert your "authority" over others.

Rather than turn your ambitions (of control over others) to instructing fellow Christians who can't properly understand their Bibles, you come here to dominate and preach.

It's clearly marked as "ex-Christian" but that only inflames your inner anger all the more.

Oh by the way, it doesn't take a vivid imagination to discern the thirst for power and control that Christians display openly.

A prime example of this religious fanaticism and thirst for power can be seen in the following statements, which are attributed to the radical American Christian cleric D. James Kennedy, a leader of the Christian Dominionist lobby:

"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost…

As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."

(Sources: Rolling Stone online 4/7/2005, Christian Science Monitor 3/16/2005 regarding Coral Ridge Ministries Feb 2005 agenda rally)

This alone should give you pause before you make any other inane and clueless statements about my "imaginings".

 

 

Dude, I don't know if you had a Mommy Dearest experience or a scary Mrs. Robinson experience but you sure are scared. You poor baby, I don't want to hurt you so stop imagining craziness, OK?

 

 

Pfft, it just goes to show you did not and do not know the more sure word of prophecy. The bible says that just before Christ comes all these things will happen. There'll be an abundance of false prophets and false Christs and people will say what the Lord hath not spoken and they will try to force others to comply.

 

Forced faith is false faith and people should be FREE to decide if they want God or not. Now Centauri, you are obviously an ex Christian conspiracy theorist and if you make yourself get all strung up on these things your lil' ticker will give out. You know if you go back to God you won't have to fear these things? You're a chicken walking around this den in a lion's costume and trying to eat an elephant in one fell swoop and it can't happen, bro'. But don't worry darlin', God loves a lil' chickadee like you and He wants to gather you under His wings.

[Thumbelina]

The HS speaks to the believer and mainly through the Word. The HS would not instruct a believer to adopt doctrines that are contradictory to the Word. Therefore a person has to follow teachings that most closely follows the bible.

If this was really true, Christians wouldn't have changed the day of the sabbath, tossed out God's law on clean foods, adopted a pagan blood drinking ritual, and wouldn't worship a vicarious human sacrifice that was illegal according to God's law.

Every one of these is contradictory to the Word.

 

 

 

*shrug* Eh, the bible prophecy says these things will happen, people would THINK to change times and laws. Christians (true ones, ones adhering to biblical teachings) do not drink blood and sacrifice people, so stop saying that. Pagans and Jews were literally responsible for Jesus' crucifixion but ALL of us had our part to play for we ALL sinned.

[Thumbelina]

...you need to show some credentials that you know better than the other Christians who tell us something different.

I ask again.

 

 

"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself."

 

D'you want some spittle and clay in those eyes of yours and then a wash in the pool?

[mymistake]

Jesus did go to hell!

Jesus went to hell/the grave (hades) for us, the Holy Spirit's job (one of them) is to convict the World and present Jesus to them; John 3:16 sums that up. That's what Peter means that Jesus spoke (via the HS) to spirits in prison.

 

You just can't demonstrate that any of the characters or settings actually exist on account that there is no objective evidence.

 

A genuine Christian strives to keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. I have both, Sir.

 

You have neither. You don't know that there are any commandments of God and you don't know that there was any Jesus Christ. Without knowledge all you have is your personal religion.

 

People CANNOT repent after they are permanently dead, their fate is sealed! ( See Ecc 9:10; Isa 38:18; Ecc 9:5; Job 14:21; Acts 2:29-34 )

 

 

So now it's become "permanently" dead rather than just physically dead.

That's a nice qualifier that you added.

Regardless, the spirits of the dead in 1 Peter 3:19 were preached to by Jesus.

If these souls couldn't be salvaged, then there was no victory to be proclaimed and no point in preaching to them.

 

 

I put permanently because of your not listenin' just debunkin' trick, when I told you the bible has TWO types of death ( The 1st death is the death we are subjected to and the 2nd death is destruction in hellfire ) you decided that people such as Lazarus did not qualify for my explanations. Just like the Pharisees, you Sir are being quite difficult but I know you're frightened so I gotta be patient with you

 

 

It really doesn't matter what the Bible says. You put permanent because humans have learned how to bring people back to life in some situations. Humans through technology have done what God can't.

 

 

I'm trying to show you my dear, but you are not listenin' or being noble like the Bereans.

 

We have tested Christianity. It failed.

[florduh]

...you need to show some credentials that you know better than the other Christians who tell us something different.

I ask again.

 

 

"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself."

 

D'you want some spittle and clay in those eyes of yours and then a wash in the pool?

 

Okay, so you are unwilling or unable to demonstrate how your understanding is superior to those Christians who would disagree with you.

 

You're wasting everyone's time (including your own) so let's talk about your mud wrestling career.

[Thumbelina]

...you need to show some credentials that you know better than the other Christians who tell us something different.

I ask again.

 

 

"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself."

 

D'you want some spittle and clay in those eyes of yours and then a wash in the pool?

 

Okay, so you are unwilling or unable to demonstrate how your understanding is superior to those Christians who would disagree with you.

 

You're wasting everyone's time (including your own) so let's talk about your mud wrestling career.

 

You have one mind so same answers:

 

Centauri said: The burden of proof is once again on you to establish beyond doubt that they wrongly divide the word.

 

 

 

I'm trying to show you my dear, but you are not listenin' or being noble like the Bereans.

[mymistake]

...you need to show some credentials that you know better than the other Christians who tell us something different.

I ask again.

 

 

"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself."

 

D'you want some spittle and clay in those eyes of yours and then a wash in the pool?

 

Okay, so you are unwilling or unable to demonstrate how your understanding is superior to those Christians who would disagree with you.

 

You're wasting everyone's time (including your own) so let's talk about your mud wrestling career.

 

You have one mind so same answers:

 

That is a lie. I never want to see you mud wrestling. Never ever. Lots of us have left Christianity but that doesn't make us one mind any more than the thousands of Christian sects who hate each other and are at one another's throats are all "one mind".

 

Centauri said: The burden of proof is once again on you to establish beyond doubt that they wrongly divide the word.

 

 

 

I'm trying to show you my dear, but you are not listenin' or being noble like the Bereans.

 

I listen. And I am testing. You just don't like that your beliefs fail when tested.

[Thumbelina]

That is a lie. I never want to see you mud wrestling. Never ever.

 

I was talking about being against Christ and the gospel, so you do have one mind

Florduh is trying to distract people from the gospel, he just needs more prayers, that's all.

[mymistake]

That is a lie. I never want to see you mud wrestling. Never ever.

 

I was talking about being against Christ and the gospel, so you do have one mind

 

I do know you were talking about that and it is still a lie. Why do you make accusations that are false?

 

Florduh is trying to distract people from the gospel, he just needs more prayers, that's all.

 

Prayers to God work just as well as prayers to Captain Kirk, prayers to a dog, prayers to a milk jug or making voo doo dolls.

 

You don't have any objective evidence for any of the things you claim. And after all your prayers fail are you going to question God? No you are going to blame yourself, or us, or Satan or some other justification. It can never be that your religion is wrong. It must be something else!

[florduh]

Really, T. This gets old.

 

First, it is your responsibility to prove the Bible is indeed the correct holy book, and second, you must prove that your interpretation of that book (which you say interprets itself) is indeed the correct interpretation and superior to the claims made by other Christians. These things you will not do. You insist on merely repeating your spiel and claiming it's the Truth. If that isn't a waste of time, I don't know what is. You, Jim Jones, Benny Hinn, Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard, Muhammed, Roger Price, Deepak Chopra and L. Ron Hubbard all make the same claim and all offer no evidence or reason to believe. At least mud wrestling would be entertaining.

[Thumbelina]

Really, T. This gets old.

 

First, it is your responsibility to prove the Bible is indeed the correct holy book, and second, you must prove that your interpretation of that book (which you say interprets itself) is indeed the correct interpretation and superior to the claims made by other Christians. These things you will not do. You insist on merely repeating your spiel and claiming it's the Truth. If that isn't a waste of time, I don't know what is. You, Jim Jones, Benny Hinn, Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard, Muhammed, Roger Price, Deepak Chopra and L. Ron Hubbard all make the same claim and all offer no evidence or reason to believe. At least mud wrestling would be entertaining.

 

Yeah but y'all are not WILLING to go back and forth in scripture to allow the bible to prove itself. It takes a willing person to see God's Word, the bible says so. If the bible is supernaturally inspired ( I said if for you skeptics, I KNOW it is inspired ) then one needs to follow its instructions so one may get INSIGHT into its teachings.

[florduh]

Yeah but y'all are not WILLING to go back and forth in scripture to allow the bible to prove itself.

Are you really this dense? What do you think we were doing as we went to Bible College, pastored a church, taught a class or translated original languages? Many of us here are quite familiar with the Bible you are so busily cherry picking. You bring nothing new at all.

[Thumbelina]

Yeah but y'all are not WILLING to go back and forth in scripture to allow the bible to prove itself.

Are you really this dense? What do you think we were doing as we went to Bible College, pastored a church, taught a class or translated original languages? Many of us here are quite familiar with the Bible you are so busily cherry picking. You bring nothing new at all.

 

 

Not being disrespectful but God favors I will more than IQ. The Pharisees were learned in the scripture and you know how that went.

 

 

If Christ was lifted up you all would NOT have left Him for the bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. I have read a lot of debates on this site and many people were taught things that will repel them from God. Also, some were quite HONEST to say that although they went to bible college they still did not understand.

 

You all are NOT Borg, you are individuals so maybe I shall put a disclaimer of " Whomever hath an ear"; even fellow Christians might see something they never saw before. I know I learn from other Christians.