Pre Fall Of Satan, Pre Creation And Post Creation Evil Show That The Bible God Is Self Refuting. (Comments Criticism, Please!)

[bdp]

Michael Jackson, The Beatles and any group or artist that made it big or will make it big will have to follow Crowley's teachings

 

Absolute and complete bullshit.

 

Yeah, I know you can't see it:

 

 

 

DO NOT patronize me.

 

I wasn't

 

you WERE.

[bdp]

there are brands that need to be plucked from the burning.

 

 

 

 

If we put ourselves there then leave us the fuck there.

[mymistake]

there are brands that need to be plucked from the burning.

 

 

 

 

If we put ourselves there then leave us the fuck there.

 

Seems like Thumbelina hasn't been around in the last couple of days.

[Antlerman]

I always get the feeling when I peer in upon her she runs into hiding. Then after some time to regroup, she surfaces for another peek at the sun. Oh well, I shouldn't be so hard on her. She actually is a small step up from her cousins the Christians. Believe it or not. She barely fits in with them, sort of caught between two worlds. Maybe she'll find what she's looking for here. Courage.

[Realist]

Seems like Thumbelina hasn't been around in the last couple of days.

 

... she is doing something useful at last ... word has it she is getting in some training for ex-C's mud wrestling comp.

[bornagainathiest]

there are brands that need to be plucked from the burning.

 

 

 

 

If we put ourselves there then leave us the fuck there.

 

Seems like Thumbelina hasn't been around in the last couple of days.

 

Or maybe she's here every day - but she's cleverly made sure we'll never find out.

 

On her profile page she's configured the 'Last Active' display to read, 'Private'.

So there's only two ways of telling if she's been here. The first is to watch her profile 24/7, until the 'Offline' display changes to 'Online'. The other is when she actually posts something. And if she doesn't post, we'll never know if she's been watching us or not.

 

Is Thumbelina doing this because she's...

 

A.

Incredibly shy?

 

B.

Because she just has to control everything she can?

 

or...

 

C.

Because she's got something to hide?

 

 

 

 

BAA.

[mymistake]

Anybody who doesn't want to be strip searched at the airport has something to hide.

 

I don't care if Thumby logs on as a guest or marks her time as private. I care only about her respecting the wishes of those who asked her to stop preaching at them. Can she respect others? For whatever reason she has stopped for about five days. For that I say good for her. Now if A-man or Centauri or you, BAA, start quoting her new material but the same routine then I will know she is back to her old tricks and the only reason she left us alone was that she was unavailable. But there is a chance she is doing this out of self discipline. People can change. If she has then good for her. I don't care if she still worships Jesus. I care only that she learns how to respect others.

[Spectrox]

Maybe you'd like to look into this post?: http://www.ex-christ...is/#entry806900

It's about the prohecies in Daniel that points to the arrival of the Messiah.

 

 

Wow. From this inpenetrable passage you received clear information that "Messiah was supposed to show up in the first century"? And that the Messiah they were talking about was definitely the character of Jesus as portrayed in the gospels? Just amazing.

 

There are interlocking doctrines that believers can see and understand but the OT is not as explicit as the new. One needs the help of the HS to see.

 

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

"(1) that the plan of salvation may be learned from the Old Testament. It is not as clearly revealed there as it is in the New, but "it is there;" and if a man had only the Old Testament, he might find the way to be saved."

 

Then you don't understand what constitutes prophecy - it has to be specific, demonstrable, verifiable etc. The passages you describe are none of these. The Jews don't consider these so-called prophecies valid and they actually believe the first half of your Bible!

 

Zomberina, you are guilty of myth-information.

[bornagainathiest]

Careful there, Spectrox!

 

This is Zomberina... http://www.ex-christ...5990-zomberina/

 

and this is Thumbelina... http://www.ex-christ...549-thumbelina/

 

 

 

Btw, YOU are the one who doesn't understand what contitutes prophecy.

Prophecy is only for those (like Thumbelina) who aren't spiritually blind.

So you, me, everyone else in this forum and all of Jews are all blind to the 'true' and 'spiritual' meaning of Biblical prophecy.

 

Only Thumbelina sees the truth of prophecy.

 

You could see it too - but to do that you'd have to accept everything she says as true, take all of her claims on faith and agree 100% with whatever she writes.

 

Got that?

 

 

BAA.

[Spectrox]

Careful there, Spectrox!

 

This is Zomberina... http://www.ex-christ...5990-zomberina/

 

and this is Thumbelina... http://www.ex-christ...549-thumbelina/

 

 

 

Btw, YOU are the one who doesn't understand what contitutes prophecy.

Prophecy is only for those (like Thumbelina) who aren't spiritually blind.

So you, me, everyone else in this forum and all of Jews are all blind to the 'true' and 'spiritual' meaning of Biblical prophecy.

 

Only Thumbelina sees the truth of prophecy.

 

You could see it too - but to do that you'd have to accept everything she says as true, take all of her claims on faith and agree 100% with whatever she writes.

 

Got that?

 

 

BAA.

 

Oh I geddit. I have to believe to believe. Thing is - what exactly am I supposed to believe in detail? i.e. which religion or philosophy should I believe? Should I just plump for the one that feels comfortable or the one that suits my demographic or the one that suits my culture and upbringing? Or the one that Zomber .. sorry ... Thumbelina says I should believe?

 

Do I really have to believe all that far-fetched bag o'shite in the Bible, like the 2 hippies and a talking snake thing?

Do I have to accept those really horrible immoral stories like genocide and eternal torture and make excuses for them?

Do I have to accept the 2 contradictory accounts of the death of Judas and try to believe that they actually happened in 2 parallel space-time dimensions?

 

Do I have to believe that a superstitious collection of old jewish folk tales is really the best way for an all-powerful superbeing to communicate the most important message ever to mankind?

 

Do I have to pull out my brain through my nose and put it through several wash-spin cycles before seeing all this?

 

You know what? I don't really fancy it! I'll just have some integrity instead.

 

[bornagainathiest]

Careful there, Spectrox!

 

This is Zomberina... http://www.ex-christ...5990-zomberina/

 

and this is Thumbelina... http://www.ex-christ...549-thumbelina/

 

 

 

Btw, YOU are the one who doesn't understand what contitutes prophecy.

Prophecy is only for those (like Thumbelina) who aren't spiritually blind.

So you, me, everyone else in this forum and all of Jews are all blind to the 'true' and 'spiritual' meaning of Biblical prophecy.

 

Only Thumbelina sees the truth of prophecy.

 

You could see it too - but to do that you'd have to accept everything she says as true, take all of her claims on faith and agree 100% with whatever she writes.

 

Got that?

 

 

BAA.

 

Oh I geddit. I have to believe to believe. Thing is - what exactly am I supposed to believe in detail? i.e. which religion or philosophy should I believe? Should I just plump for the one that feels comfortable or the one that suits my demographic or the one that suits my culture and upbringing? Or the one that Zomber .. sorry ... Thumbelina says I should believe?

 

Do I really have to believe all that far-fetched bag o'shite in the Bible, like the 2 hippies and a talking snake thing?

Do I have to accept those really horrible immoral stories like genocide and eternal torture and make excuses for them?

Do I have to accept the 2 contradictory accounts of the death of Judas and try to believe that they actually happened in 2 parallel space-time dimensions?

 

Do I have to believe that a superstitious collection of old jewish folk tales is really the best way for an all-powerful superbeing to communicate the most important message ever to mankind?

 

Do I have to pull out my brain through my nose and put it through several wash-spin cycles before seeing all this?

 

You know what? I don't really fancy it! I'll just have some integrity instead.

 

 

I think you speak for every rational, reasonable person in this forum Spectrox.

 

So that would be everyone except Thumbelina.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[roadrunner]

 

*sigh* I have TRIED many times to show you how to compare scripture with scripture so you can actually see a gospel but your myopic view would not permit it

 

LOL. This is the whole point. Outside of scripture (which has very questionable authority considering the nature of how and when it was composed) there is very little documentation to suggest that MOST of the claim in the bible are valid. They appear to be distorted versions of what may have once been a half-truth by people who were terrified and superstitious.

[mymistake]

*sigh* I have TRIED many times to show you how to compare scripture with scripture so you can actually see a gospel but your myopic view would not permit it

 

LOL. This is the whole point. Outside of scripture (which has very questionable authority considering the nature of how and when it was composed) there is very little documentation to suggest that MOST of the claim in the bible are valid. They appear to be distorted versions of what may have once been a half-truth by people who were terrified and superstitious.

 

Thumby tried to show you the truth but couldn't because of your narrowmindedness . . . just like God tried to give the Israelites victory over the Canaanites but couldn't because the Canaanites had iron chariots.

 

[bornagainathiest]

*sigh* I have TRIED many times to show you how to compare scripture with scripture so you can actually see a gospel but your myopic view would not permit it

 

LOL. This is the whole point. Outside of scripture (which has very questionable authority considering the nature of how and when it was composed) there is very little documentation to suggest that MOST of the claim in the bible are valid. They appear to be distorted versions of what may have once been a half-truth by people who were terrified and superstitious.

 

No! No! No! You've got it all wrong, Runner!

 

According to Thumbelina, nobody is supposed to look outside of scripture, for any reason. A true believer never looks for extra-Biblical evidence to support the Bible. You musn't look at extra-Biblical documentation to support the truth of the Bible. How many times does Thumbelina have to tell you? She calls you MYOPIC because you've still got one eye open to evidence from outside the Bible.

That's wrong!

 

Myopia (Greek: μυωπίa, muōpia, from myein "to shut" + ops (gen. opos) "eye"),

 

 

 

She's telling you to close BOTH of your eyes to anything outside of scripture... see?

Then, with both eyes tightly closed to any contradictory evidence, your 'spiritual' eyes will be opened and you will see the truth of the Bible clearly - just as she does.

 

Don't you want to be just like her, Runner?

 

 

BAA.

[mcdaddy]

*sigh* I have TRIED many times to show you how to compare scripture with scripture so you can actually see a gospel but your myopic view would not permit it

 

LOL. This is the whole point. Outside of scripture (which has very questionable authority considering the nature of how and when it was composed) there is very little documentation to suggest that MOST of the claim in the bible are valid. They appear to be distorted versions of what may have once been a half-truth by people who were terrified and superstitious.

 

No! No! No! You've got it all wrong, Runner!

 

According to Thumbelina, nobody is supposed to look outside of scripture, for any reason. A true believer never looks for extra-Biblical evidence to support the Bible. You musn't look at extra-Biblical documentation to support the truth of the Bible. How many times does Thumbelina have to tell you? She calls you MYOPIC because you've still got one eye open to evidence from outside the Bible.

That's wrong!

 

Myopia (Greek: μυωπίa, muōpia, from myein "to shut" + ops (gen. opos) "eye"),

 

 

 

She's telling you to close BOTH of your eyes to anything outside of scripture... see?

Then, with both eyes tightly closed to any contradictory evidence, your 'spiritual' eyes will be opened and you will see the truth of the Bible clearly - just as she does.

 

Don't you want to be just like her, Runner?

 

 

BAA.

 

you're slick.

 

but dead on as usual. "To see by faith, you must shut the eye of reason".

[bornagainathiest]

Slick, huh?

 

Who d'you think writes Stephen Colbert's material... Stephen Colbert?

 

 

BAA.

[Thumbelina]

 

Thumbelina said:

 

@ Centauri

Cite the bible OT text that say the irreverent and censorious (who are very rebellious) will comprehend spiritual things. Cite the OT passage that say that people who use disingenuous practices of pitting different beliefs against each other by using google university as research, while ignoring the biblical stipulation of yielding to God and comparing scripture with scripture, will understand the bible. Dude all you do is read mostly Jewish propaganda and you do EVERY SINGLE THING that Rayskidude said.

 

centauri:

Well like you, rayskidude was an aspiring teacher/preacher that couldn't come up with an actual answer to a very simple request.

You're the zealots that make claims about the Bible displaying self-proving harmony.

If you're going to make such bold proclamations, be prepared to back them up with something more than Christian self-righteousness and imagined scriptural discernment.

The Jewish propaganda is their evaluation of what their scriptures mean.

 

Thumbelina said:

*raised eyebrow* You Centauri are full of shenanigans. You do not (PRESENTLY; I believe you did in the past, you seem to be an avid reader too) search the scripture for truth, you take a doctrine from here and a doctrine from there in order to create confusion (that's the spirit of Antichrist you know; I hope you stop, I still like you and don't want you to not be saved).

 

 

centauri said: You claimed the Bible displayed complete harmony, which isn't the case.

As for your claim that I don't search the scripture for truth, that's subjective.

I'll counter your jab by saying that your standard for truth is obviously much lower than mine.

 

Thumbelina:

The bible does harmonize with itself, darlin'. It is marvelooooous!

Sorry about that, I do see evidence that you searched and searched but your blasphemy annoys and worries me.

How do you determine truth, you infidel, you?!

If the Bible harmonized itself, there wouldn't be contradictions.

Christianity produces many of these contradictions by attempting to create a revisionist theology which is loosely based on the Hebrew scriptures.

 

 

Thumbelina said: How can someone reason with you when you plan on dismissing everything and you do not do what Rayskidude said one is supposed to do to understand?

 

centauri said: Do you take orders from the Pope?

I don't take orders from a pompous missionary.

 

Thumbelina:

I have the bible as canon (a measuring rod for truth) , therefore I am able to throw out the bathwater and keep the baby. I keep what the pope says that is true according to scripture and throw out what is false.

Pompous? Eh, you're the conspircay theorist of the ex-Christians.

Pompous is an appropriate description for a preacher/missionary that tried to create reality out of subjective imaginings and then advertised it as some sort of superior "truth".

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the bible is truth. I do not say you have to believe as I do, you say false things about it. Is it wrong to speak up against nay sayers who are down on the bible because they are not up on it? Where is freedom of speech in that? Where is the do unto others ...?

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: The bible does prove itself to people with open hearts/minds. Show me in the bible where it says scripture is for persistent unbelievers with predetermined hearts. Show me where it says the scoffer has spiritual discernment. You as an unbeliever, an unbeliever, has placed yourself as a discerner of the bible, show the lurkers the scriptures where it says someone with an anti-gospel is able to do that.

 

centauri said:I didn't make the claim about the Bible displaying complete harmony, that was you.

That claim doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

When faced with the reality that it doesn't, you dismiss the problems by dismissing the person pointing them out.

In your universe, no unbeliever is ever qualified to question your claims.

 

Thumbelina:

It truly does harmonize, you just don't see it yet. I'm not dismissing you, how long have we been at this? <--- *rhetorical question* I've been impressed by you, I've said so many times.

 

 

It's not a question of impressing anyone.

You've already indicated that "unbelievers" aren't qualified to discern scripture.

However, it's a matter of holding your claims accountable.

You keep claiming it harmonizes when it doesn't.

 

 

Centauri, please say what I did say, I did not say unbelievers cannot grasp certain concepts, I said unbelievers cannot determine the deep things of God and it wasn't me saying it, i said it based on the book I base my belief system and the book we were discussing. I also see evidence that the bible is true in that respect. If I did not think you had potential to understand I would not talk to you. I think I talk to you the most. I see many on here who are QUITE able but are unwilling to get deeply into the bible. I do understand their weariness too. Many saw God as a God to be feared (scared of) and I would be reluctant too if I were in their shoes. It's good to hold the believers accountable but I say this constructively, you have a lot of misunderstandings and you repeat a lot of the false teachings that came into the church back in the first century and those techings have treckled down to today.

 

P.S. Please explain to me why some people act as if they are being forced to read what a believer writes, I thought there are ignore buttons on here? You seem to enjoy "debunking" the bible though.

[Thumbelina]

I never see that in you. Ever.

Maybe she's not a real Christian?

 

That's not for you to judge, Simba

[Thumbelina]

I never see that in you. Ever.

Maybe she's not a real Christian?

Of course not. She's just a windbag trying to make herself feel good about herself. It's all about her and her sick relationship with her religion, and trying to validate herself to her god. She uses us.

 

I've half a mind to just cut her free. I've yet to see anything of value with her. Never does she listen or discuss. Just preaches and preaches. It's only about her.

 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way, Aman. I did state on here MANY times that I discuss with whomever is willing to discuss the bible with me. (not folks who are deliberately trying to set me up or demonize me though. I don't write this for you, I know some will say they're willing but they just want to be naughty so I have to be careful when I say "whomever") I did find a few people and did have a good bit of pleasant discussions with folk on here even if they disagreed with me.

[mcdaddy]

So are you voting for Mitt, Thumby?

[Astreja]

I believe the bible is truth. I do not say you have to believe as I do, you say false things about it.

You have to prove us false, Thumbelina, not just say so.

Is it wrong to speak up against nay sayers who are down on the bible because they are not up on it?

You haven't demonstrated that we're "not up on it," Thumbelina. Therefore, you are bearing false witness against us.

Where is freedom of speech in that?

This is a privately-owned forum, Thumbelina. "Freedom of speech" is at the sole discretion of the Webmaster. Deal with it.

Where is the do unto others ...?

Ah, the irony...

[Thumbelina]

 

Thumbelina said: The Jewish propaganda is that God says all nations are to be blessed and given the opportunity for salvation and the Jews are exclusivist and don't give two shakes about the salvation of non Jews.

 

Centauri said: Jewish interpretation of their own scriptures makes far more sense than Christian ones, especially in cases where Christian writers ripped a verse out of context, which they did repeatedly.

 

Thumbelina:

Jewish interpretation of some portions of scripture does not make more sense! Their interpretation leaves out non Jews from the picture of salvation. The Jews have the ten commandment law so why do they not share it with their fellow man if they think keeping the law is the way of salvation. Many people do not keep the law.

Non-Jews are not left out of the salvation picture.

Read your bleeping scriptures!

 

Isa 56:1-8

Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

 

Gentiles will be fully accepted into God's fold if they observe the same covenant that Jews recognize.

 

These are Christian Bible titles for this passage:

 

ESV-Salvation for Foreigners

NIV-Salvation for Others

God's Word Translation-Salvation for All People

NKJV- Salvation for the Gentiles

 

There is no need for an illegal human sacrifice called "Jesus" in this.

Salvation is granted by doing the work of keeping the covenant and is open to all people.

This is further confirmed by Ezek 18:20-27.

 

 

 

 

Aha!!! so you acknowledge that salvation is for al mankind and that Jews were supposed to be a nation that were to show others about the true God? Where in our society or any society for that matter, do you see non Messianic Jews trying to share the knowledge of the law and salvation with others. There was a family of non Jews who said they went to Jews because they were interested in the law but the Jews turned them away. I am not saying that they are not nice people, what I am saying is that their religion is exclusivist and therefore does not show concern for the salvation of non Jews. Bdp had me doing a bit of reading recently and SOME Jews seemed to have revised the scripture to basically say what many false religious systems are saying, people are saved by being good (according to human standards I.e.). That somehow absolves them of the responsibility of sharing good tidings, I suppose. Please do NOT misunderstand me, I do not deny other channels of God's grace, what I am saying is that there's an adversary who is an absolute lunatic who wants to destroy us and he tends to use deception to do so.

 

Btw, how would the gentiles know about God if no one shares with them? God tidings should be shared to whomever is willing to listen. Whatta ya think?

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

Hey Darlin', we've been going around and around on these issues, don't really wanna go spinning around again. There are some questions that I wanted to ask you though but I have notes on them somewhere and can't find it atm. I think when/if I get to them you won't mind taking a look?

[Ouroboros]

I never see that in you. Ever.

Maybe she's not a real Christian?

 

That's not for you to judge, Simba

That's why it's a question.

[centauri]

I believe the bible is truth. I do not say you have to believe as I do, you say false things about it. Is it wrong to speak up against nay sayers who are down on the bible because they are not up on it? Where is freedom of speech in that? Where is the do unto others ...?

I've never taken the position that you should be banned.

You made the claim that the Bible was in complete harmony and I disputed that.

I then asked you to answer 4 simple questions which you attempted to answer by using wishful thinking. You failed to establish your initial claim as being valid.

I've already stated repeatedly that you can believe anything that makes you feel good.

However, your subjective theological musings are not binding on those outside your particular cult.

That's the observation that you cannot accept.

 

Centauri, please say what I did say, I did not say unbelievers cannot grasp certain concepts, I said unbelievers cannot determine the deep things of God and it wasn't me saying it, i said it based on the book I base my belief system and the book we were discussing. I also see evidence that the bible is true in that respect. If I did not think you had potential to understand I would not talk to you. I think I talk to you the most. I see many on here who are QUITE able but are unwilling to get deeply into the bible. I do understand their weariness too. Many saw God as a God to be feared (scared of) and I would be reluctant too if I were in their shoes. It's good to hold the believers accountable but I say this constructively, you have a lot of misunderstandings and you repeat a lot of the false teachings that came into the church back in the first century and those techings have treckled down to today.

I understand. You're here to correct people and show them the error of their ways.

And as far as I'm concerned, you can keep preaching away and we'll plow the same ground over and over and over and over again until hell freezes over.

That's entirely up to you.

 

P.S. Please explain to me why some people act as if they are being forced to read what a believer writes, I thought there are ignore buttons on here? You seem to enjoy "debunking" the bible though.

I can't speak for others as to why they act as if they're forced to read your posts.

My sole purpose in responding to any of your posts is to allow lurkers to see how subjective the claims of Christianity are.

Many people are intimidated by preachers and apologists, being told that Christianity represents some sort of absolute truth.