Selling Soul To The Devil.

[Hunter93]

Is there any way to deal with the selling soul fear? That one seems to be the root of everything but I don't know how to deal with that.

 

And earlier I jokingly said "I could watch something upstairs if I had a laptop but SOMEONE won't buy me one" and my dad said there's a back to school sale next month. Yes, I'm sure you guessed it. I got scared that "I sold my soul and X happened". I talked to my mom because while I DO want a laptop, maybe now isn't the best time.

[kolaida]

And now the selling soul fear is developing into more....irrational fears. I mean very bizarre fears.

 

Also, do you really get increased anxiety while in therapy? I read that somewhere and it might be what's going on.

 

EDIT: I am still scared I decided to open what my mom bought me. Basically, I confronted my fear for that(but yes, I am still scared).

 

I get increased anxiety for just small bits of therapy. My therapist is really good, though, and usually I actually feel really, REALLY calm at therapy. I only get anxious if it's quiet for too long but the therapist seems to sense that. If I don't know what else to say, I'll just tell him, "I really don't know what else to say" or "I don't know how to answer that question" or "I don't really understand what you asked me."   I've always really appreciated my therapy. Except for the first eight weeks when I initially did therapy. After that, though, it was really great. You just have to wait to have that first real break through of "Ohhhhhhhh, I get it."  Once that happens, it's easier. 

 

 

 

Is there any way to deal with the selling soul fear? That one seems to be the root of everything but I don't know how to deal with that.

 

And earlier I jokingly said "I could watch something upstairs if I had a laptop but SOMEONE won't buy me one" and my dad said there's a back to school sale next month. Yes, I'm sure you guessed it. I got scared that "I sold my soul and X happened". I talked to my mom because while I DO want a laptop, maybe now isn't the best time.

 

 

Be sure to write that down and tell the therapist exactly what happened, what triggered the thought, and how the words and actions led to this train of thought. 

 

If not point out already, August IS generally when back to school sales happen every single year. There was a back to school sale in August last year and there will be one next year. Nothing you did caused the sale to take place. 

 

If you don't think it's the best time,  then just hold off til you think of a better time. 

 

I would just be sure to write down the stuff and follow any instructions the counselors tell you. 

[Hunter93]

So, I was humming earlier but....I don't know if this is from my OCD but I fear I sold my soul again but this time, through some "hidden message" while humming I think it was my OCD tricking me but it freaked me out so bad. I even did the humming again and again to make sure it was all in my head which made it worse. This time, I fear I "intentionally" sold my soul. I also worry that I did it intentionally and it wasn't the OCD. I had to renounce the devil and I'm still freaked out by this.

 

EDIT: I did see my conuselor again and it was OCD according to her.

[Hunter93]

Also, I'm going to be doing some psychological testing. Anyone have any experience with this?

[sdelsolray]

It might be a good idea to print out the posts you have made on this forum and let your counselor and psychiatrist read them.

[Hunter93]

Everything I've posted I pretty much have already told the counselor though.

[Hunter93]

I'm planning on explaining a lot more things that's bothering me in my next session.

 

For instance, this

 

 

This has actually caused me to return to a nearly almost Christian mindset. For instance, I said out loud that if if Satan is real, I didn't sell my soul to him, there's no pact, etc. But, while not at the beginning, I did say "In the name of God" during it. I lost count on how many times I said this. And I did pray to God several times too.

 

has now come back to haunt me greatly because one of the things I said was along the lines "Don't you dare come to collect". And another thing is that that yes, you cannot prove Satan exists but remember, uncertainty and doubt caused by OCD. How do I know that's wrong and Satan DOES exist?

[kolaida]

I'm planning on explaining a lot more things that's bothering me in my next session.

 

For instance, this

 

 

This has actually caused me to return to a nearly almost Christian mindset. For instance, I said out loud that if if Satan is real, I didn't sell my soul to him, there's no pact, etc. But, while not at the beginning, I did say "In the name of God" during it. I lost count on how many times I said this. And I did pray to God several times too.

 

has now come back to haunt me greatly because one of the things I said was along the lines "Don't you dare come to collect". And another thing is that that yes, you cannot prove Satan exists but remember, uncertainty and doubt caused by OCD. How do I know that's wrong and Satan DOES exist?

 

Another thing to remember that OCD does is make you obsessive. You have to realize when you're obsessing over something, stop, and simply tell yourself "I've spent way too much time on this thought and it's not healthy."  It doesn't happen overnight, you have to really, REALLY train your brain. 

 

It might not be a bad idea to print these out and show the therapist. Also, remember uncertainty and doubt are caused by OCD; uncertainty and doubt don't make your OCD thoughts valid. You have to recognize when you are having OCD thoughts and always classify them as such.  Oh yeah, and I don't take any meds for this so I don't know how that might be affecting your thoughts, either.  You might really wanna write thoughts down and what triggers them.  Have they given you any therapy homework? I had like a ton of therapy homework, having to journal when I had a certain kind of thought, what kind of emotions that triggered, what different courses of actions I could take in response to that thought, etc. If you are gettin therapy homework, you really, really wanna do it. I didn't do it the first few weeks, but once I did, I was amazed at the difference it made. 

 

http://www.psychologytools.org/assets/files/Submitted_Materials/ABC_Belief_Monitoring.pdf

 

http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/PerfectionismTRS.pdf

 

and for some really FUN stuff, millions of worksheets! 

 

http://www.psychologytools.org/download-therapy-worksheets.html

 

 

 

Also, this is on rumination, I know you said you suffer from depression, too so this one will probably be helpful. It took me almost seven weeks to REALLY understand rumination and how it helps maintain depression and how detrimental it can actually be.  http://media.psychologytools.org/Worksheets/English/What_Is_Rumination.pdf

 

 

I had to do the ABCs, thought records, and daily activity logs-- where I recorded everything I did throughout the ENTIRE day and what my mood was when doing it. (Mine were slightly altered, but essentially very similar to these) 

 

Obviously, bring this up with your therapist if it interests you. I'm not trying to force you into anything and I don't believe in self help for illnesses such as OCD or other disorders. Having a therapist guide you is definitely the right way and you will get there one way or another. 

 

Oh yeah! And don't forget OCD thoughts are irrational.  You don't have to believe everything you think and it's best to value and listen to the rational thoughts in your mind. 

[Hunter93]

I was skeptical of therapy homework but I'll do it now if it really works.

 

The problem is, it doesn't feel I have any rationality left. These OCD thoughts feel so overwhelming. And then there's a what if I really did sell my soul, etc.

 

And maybe I should focus on my normal life too, I have severe OCD and it's going to take a long time for me to get better. Still going to go to therapy.

[kolaida]

I was skeptical of therapy homework but I'll do it now if it really works.

 

The problem is, it doesn't feel I have any rationality left. These OCD thoughts feel so overwhelming. And then there's a what if I really did sell my soul, etc.

 

And maybe I should focus on my normal life too, I have severe OCD and it's going to take a long time for me to get better. Still going to go to therapy.

 

If you are getting therapy homework to do, definitely do it! I didn't at first because it seemed silly, but it really DOES help.  It actually helped me tame and stop a complete full on panic attack in a public area. Once I started understanding the homework and why I was doing it, I also started to better understand my thoughts, circular thinking, and what the therapists had been talking about during a session.  The homework also is very helpful for the therapist to better guide you as they can get a more accurate view of the way you are thinking. 

 

The therapy will eventually help tame the OCD thoughts. And, yeah, I know what you mean about the rationality thing. When it was pointed out to me how severely I catastrophized things throughout the day and how negative my thinking had become, I was a little confused because I'd never really thought another way. But the therapist did insist I could definitely think other ways and I'd still have thoughts throughout the day without catastrophizing things. 

 

Has your therapist given you any advice on the scrupulosity (might have sold you soul)? 

[Hunter93]

Yeah, I just became even more scared. While rebuking the devil, I accidentally said what I say after my prayers to God: "Thank you God for listening to me". Now I'm really scared.

[sdelsolray]

I was skeptical of therapy homework but I'll do it now if it really works.

 

The problem is, it doesn't feel I have any rationality left. These OCD thoughts feel so overwhelming. And then there's a what if I really did sell my soul, etc.

 

And maybe I should focus on my normal life too, I have severe OCD and it's going to take a long time for me to get better. Still going to go to therapy.

Do the homework.

 

You have plenty of rationality.  I can see it by reading your posts.  You recognize you have issues, you have identified what they are and you are taking steps to address them.

 

You will need to train your brain to work differently.  That takes time and hard work.  Be patient.

[kolaida]

Yeah, definitely do the homework.  

 

To be honest, when I was suffering from Scrupulosity, I would try to rebuke the devil at times and then my prayers to God would seem to get mixed up and there were several times I thought I had worshiped Satan by some horrid mistake.  It's the Scrupulosity.  You are so stressed out and obsessed over it, it's almost impossible not to mix them. Also, when you are doin something so often, your mind tends to go into auto pilot.  

[Hunter93]

Huh. I didn't know Scrupulosity can cause you to mess up things like that. It almost happened once before but I was able to stop myself then.

[Hunter93]

I feel a bit uneasy and heavy when I woke up and that doesn't help. And for some reason, I'm getting a bit nervous as this thread's gotten so big. And there's a unusual lack of intrusive thoughts today too.

[kolaida]

First off, I'm sure if the thread was too long or whatever, the mods would step in or say something, so I wouldn't worry about that. 

 

Secondly, just because you think something doesn't mean you have to believe it; ie, "I think I prayed to the devil" does NOT equal, "I prayed to the devil." It's my favorite bumper sticker (you don't have believe everything you think!)  And that thought regarding the devil is a thought formed from scrupulosity. Several times, if not more-- heck a lot more, I was certain I'd accidentally worshiped the devil was up shit creek about it. My preteens, teen years, and early 20s were drowning in Scrupulosity. It wasn't until 23/24 that I really stopped with it and that was due to horrible depression and having to spend time in the emergency room because of severe stomach problems. It's just training your brain recognize and admit that a thought it part of scrupulosity.  Takes a while, though. 

 

Also, the thread or any thread dealing with OCD elements is bound to be long because part of anxiety sufferers, especially those with OCD, is a constant need for reassurance. Even if you start to understand something, you start to doubt it, so you go back to be assured again that you are understanding correctly and the thoughts pretty much put your actions on a loop. You can always start a new thread if the length of this one is making you uncomfortable, but I wouldn't worry about it. 

 

Also, I don't know much about vision hallucinations. 

[Hunter93]

Posting all of this has now caused another fear to develop. I'm actually scared to post what the fear is.

 

And today I learned that my sister was once a Christian herself. I asked my mom too who confirmed it. My sister believes in a God but not in religion. She believes religion can be good and bad. I asked her about depression and her de-conversion was a reason for her depression according to her. Now, I wish I talked to her sooner.

[kolaida]

I'm pretty sure people that die from exorcisms are suffering from some kind of untreated mental illness and turning to religion to heal themselves instead of being properly diagnosed. The mind IS a powerful thing.  When you gather several people in a room with similar beliefs, all bent on doing the same thing, it's no wonder odd things happen.  Exorcists themselves are probably suffering from some kind of condition themselves. The brain is very powerful. The power of belief itself can also be powerful, just see all the de-conversion testimonies and how people's lives were affected by believing in certain things. 

 

Some people CAN healthily handle religion.  However, I'd say overall it's not healthy for society and it has such a debilitating effect on those who take it so seriously as shown by this site alone and who knows all the ex-Christians not even on this site. It's good you and your sister can relate on this topic with neither trying to convert the other. Depression is common with de-conversion. And, unfortunately, for people like you and I, who are genetically prone to having some form of OCD (or multiple forms) triggered, religion is very frustrating and debilitating. Some people do alright with religion, but I believe the secular lifestyle is the better path for people with obsessive tendencies. (Although, as, I believe Bhim suggested looking into your parents religion might be good, too.  Though, they do not sound like they are obsessive.) People from any religion can suffer from Scrupulosity and some that practice Hinduism suffer from it, too. It IS higher with Christianity, though, or any religion that stresses some form of perfection. And perfectionism is OCD. 

 

It's also probably good that you don't know many Christians IRL. I knew a TON of Christians when I suffered from Scrupulosity but that is not anything I could ever bear to bring up to them. They probably would have told me weird things about it and I probably would have been more messed up so it's a good thing.  Also, it sounds like your parents are very supportive and that is very good. 

[Hunter93]

I have started to fear the opposite scenario as well. I prayed but I fear that was a mistake. Is this fear OCD-related too? One fear leads to another.

 

I actually don't know ANY Christians IRL. When I talked to my sister, I mentioned what's bothering me and she responded with "The devil and demons don't exist" but I said "How do I know that they truly don't exist?". That's what scares me.

[kolaida]

What is the opposite scenario exactly? 

 

Any thoughts that you are obsessing over to the point of it affecting the quality of your life and causing you extreme stress is OCD-related. 

 

I really think you should explore the threads that Born Again Atheist and Ravenstar have posted in as both have a lot of information from multiple sources that can illustrate how unlikely it is that the Bible is even true. Give me a few minutes and I'll try to link you to some of the threads that helped me with my anxiety when I first de-converted. (And obviously a LOT of other posters on Ex-C as well help with those arguments as well).  

[kolaida]

Okay, got some threads and stuff.  Hope I'm not violating any rules and please, someone let me know if I am! 

 

 

All of the following are good threads or good members to click and browse (I tried to choose ones with abundant scientific/historical posts).   THIS thread probably helped me most of all, though: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54614-jim-and-penny-caldwells-archaeological-findings/   I wouldn't bother watching the video but read all the responses to it and the rebuttals. 

 

And here are some others you can browse when you have time.  Some are long. You don't have to read every word and I'd focus more on the regular ex-C members you see here frequently rather than the people offering up the Christian view point. 

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/21093-bart-ehrman-on-biblical-texts/

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54583-why-do-smart-people-fall-for-christianity/

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/25632-question-for-christians-about-biblical-inerrancy/

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/56981-adam-gets-my-eve/

 

And I would just scroll through and read some of these posts: 

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/user/5764-bornagainathiest/

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/user/18028-ravenstar/?tab=reputation&app_tab=forums&type=received&st=15

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/user/19976-raoul/  

 

 

Anyway, just some reading material to browse. It can get to be overwhelming. When I fist joined this site, I mostly went through old threads to see different arguments presented. But again, that Caldwell thread started by BlackCat really helped me a LOT. I spent forever in that thread. It kind of helped cement whatever doubts I had. Not saying it'll do that for you but it might help or be a good starting point. 

[Hunter93]

I'm actually really nervous about posting the opposite scenario.

 

But, I can't seem to figure out the lack of intrusive thoughts today. Not that I enjoy those thoughts. This also causes me to fear that I enjoy these thoughts when I know I don't.

 

EDIT: I shall look at those threads. May have seen them prior too. I am still very scared though.

[kolaida]

I'm actually really nervous about posting the opposite scenario.

 

But, I can't seem to figure out the lack of intrusive thoughts today. That still fuels the fear for some reason. Not that I enjoy those thoughts.

 

EDIT: I shall look at those threads. May have seen them prior too. I am still very scared though.

 

Yeah, take a peek.  If anything, at least read some ways through a few of them.  If it comes to it, make another posting too asking how likely it is that demons are even real?  

 

In another thread here, science gives a weird but good explanation for paranormal activities that people have had.  I'm sure with each person it's a little different depending on which thing they are more afraid of (demons, aliens, ghosts, etc)  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/57572-the-creepy-scientific-explanation-behind-ghost-sightings/.  But it is also interesting.  

 

Remember just because someone else claims to have experienced something supernatural does not mean they actually DID. They might BELIEVE they did, but that doesn't make it TRUE.  

[Hunter93]

I've also been worrying and obsessing over morality all day as well.

 

That might not be a bad idea actually(posting that thread).

 

I know. I remember when I used to watch paranormal shows . They never really bothered me back then but now they do.

[kolaida]

And I'd definitely check out the Atheist Experience on youtube. It's really good stuff!! I watched a lot of that during my initial de-conversion, too.  

 

Yeah, paranormal shows probably didn't bother you before because the OCD hadn't been triggered. Until I was 11 with that Sunday school teacher who triggered my Scrupulosity, church hadn't been a stressful experience for me at all. After that point though, it was horrible. 

 

I'd make another posting after you've read some and see what answers you get. I'm not gonna lie; I'm a pretty average person and a lot of other people here are a lot smarter than me and can probably better answer your questions regarding specific theological issues such as demons. I'm able to empathize with you since I have OCD and suffered from Scrupulosity for a very long time. (And depression)  I can better answer the stuff dealing with that or relate the experiences I've had that are similar. (Though I am no therapist and obviously your therapist will have more answers than me, but it is good to have some kind of support and know you're not alone or the only person who has suffered through this; I know how horrible some of the Scrupulosity can be).