ironhorse Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Thanks Bhim, I just answered the father and mother question on the Who Are You to Worship God thread. It's on page 2 post 39. If more of an explanation is needed let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Just a heads-up for fairness' sake. I see that two people have interpreted the "therapist" remark as being from ironhorse. End3 actually said that -- and he hasn't been preaching at anybody. End is our token xian. Good ones are hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I'm new. I'm glad I found this forum. I've spent some time reading the threads in the Lion's Den, but instead of jumping in on those I would begin by starting my first thread. Reply with one question. Ex Christians, atheist, agnostics, Christians, seekers, all welcome. Hello Ironhorse. I can demonstrate, using cosmological science, that the Christian god of the Bible cannot be the creator of our universe. Since I can put one question to you, here it is. . . . Do you want me to demonstrate this to you? . . . Please think carefully before replying. Thanks, BAA (Bump!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Now a more serious question: What exactly do you think you could show us or say that could change our beliefs? And also do you realise how insensitive it is you being here? --- Bearing in mind we are well studied and there is nothing new you could 'reveal'. We've experienced everything you've experienced a long time ago. We were just like you and we know what it is like, but then we got up and realised, as we stood, that right before our eyes was a lie. It's something that just doesn't go away. It's more than just a doubt or a misunderstanding of text, or because we hadn't received the feeling of God's love. We've all experienced that. Once I was praying and saw a flash, I was filled with the holy spirit because as I saw that heavenly flash of light I felt the entire power of the universe. God had truly spoken to me through an insight that required no words. Then all of a sudden I realised something about that flash, it was not God, God did not communicate with me, it was just the flash of a camera taking photos. That didn't shake my faith at all though because I was a strong believer Thanks Bhim, I just answered the father and mother question on the Who Are You to Worship God thread. It's on page 2 post 39. If more of an explanation is needed let me know. Hi ironhorse, could you respond to my question please? Oh and in regards to the quoting feature, experiment with it a little. You can quote multiple posts by clicking multi-quote, then clicking reply to topic. If you click on quote, the message you quoted will appear in the edit box at the bottom. There are a few behaviour problems with the quote system, so you might have to use undo and play around if it glitches. I'm also curious as to your mission / purpose in coming here, given it's for ex-christians. And please don't reply that there is a room, the Lion's den, where christian's can come, as that is not a actual answer to the question but a side stepping of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Just a heads-up for fairness' sake. I see that two people have interpreted the "therapist" remark as being from ironhorse. End3 actually said that -- and he hasn't been preaching at anybody. End is our token xian. Good ones are hard to find. I do wish Cathlickitty would come back. He was a nice member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Bhim, "2.Jesus is not only announcing but reminding them that loyalty to God takes precedence over family and friends when there is conflict. Christian who have done this in the past and present in countries where conversions to Christianity is against the law are aware of this verse." ~ Ironhorse So, if you are from a non-christian country or culture, I guess you are shit out of luck. I guess somehow this is supposed to make it okay. But then again white/western privilege rears it's ugly head. Eskimo. "Would I go to hell if I didn't know about christ?" Missionary. "no" Eskimo. "Then why did you tell me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Hi Ironhorse. I must say you've done a pretty good job of consistently responding to other posters' responses. Im confused. Which questions has he answered? Not mine. I still want to know his motives for being here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 And, once again, why did he start this thread and abandon it, choosing to force us to weave between a bunch of other threads? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Hi Ironhorse. I must say you've done a pretty good job of consistently responding to other posters' responses. Im confused. Which questions has he answered? Not mine. I still want to know his motives for being here. I agree. Bhim, you're a nice person -- a courteous gentleman. But only a couple of our many questions have been answered. Ironhorse did eventually get to Redneck Prof's question (answering in another thread) and that has produced interesting discussion over there. I can understand that we've overwhelmed ironhorse with the sheer volume and complexity of the questions we've asked. But then, he read other threads in the Lion's Den before starting this one and he specifically invited each of us to ask a question. So it's not like we took him by surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 It might be easier if he stuck to the one thread at first, for everyone. Just sayin' Bhim is always a gentleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 26, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yeah, he only answered my question about hating your father and mother after I asked it three times on this thread and again on a different thread. It's not like me at all to disagree with Bhim, but in this case, I'm afraid it is necessary. Hi Ironhorse. I must say you've done a pretty good job of consistently responding to other posters' responses. Im confused. Which questions has he answered? Not mine. I still want to know his motives for being here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yeah, he only answered my question about hating your father and mother after I asked it three times on this thread and again on a different thread. It's not like me at all to disagree with Bhim, but in this case, I'm afraid it is necessary. Hi Ironhorse. I must say you've done a pretty good job of consistently responding to other posters' responses. Im confused. Which questions has he answered? Not mine. I still want to know his motives for being here. I would suggest more patience with this new Christian poster. So far, his Christian Apologetics are above average, which has more to say about his knowledge of them instead of their soundness or validity. He will likely yield more entertainment as they get dissected and refuted. He can't be expected to address every post. For example, he has yet to directly respond to any of my posts. Which is fine. Nevertheless, he seems addicted to the use of logical fallacies but has learned to hide that addiction quite well. In short, he is a theist, not a rational thinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yeah, he only answered my question about hating your father and mother after I asked it three times on this thread and again on a different thread. It's not like me at all to disagree with Bhim, but in this case, I'm afraid it is necessary. Hi Ironhorse. I must say you've done a pretty good job of consistently responding to other posters' responses. Im confused. Which questions has he answered? Not mine. I still want to know his motives for being here. I would suggest more patience with this new Christian poster. So far, his Christian Apologetics are above average, which has more to say about his knowledge of them instead of their soundness or validity. He will likely yield more entertainment as they get dissected and refuted. He can't be expected to address every post. For example, he has yet to directly respond to any of my posts. Which is fine. Nevertheless, he seems addicted to the use of logical fallacies but has learned to hide that addiction quite well. In short, he is a theist, not a rational thinker. I agree that the new guy cannot address every single question from multiple questioners. I'm sure he has a life. I ask questions. It's nice to get an answer, but if I don't , oh well, it's off to videogame-land. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I agree that the new guy cannot address every single question from multiple questioners. I'm sure he has a life. I ask questions. It's nice to get an answer, but if I don't , oh well, it's off to videogame-land. :-) The harder or more focused the question, the more likely theists will avoid your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 What's so hard about "Why are you here?" If I thought he was here with good motives, I wouldn't be such a crank. But our recent glut of idiocy from Christians is making it hard for me to be patient. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rach Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Why trust Yahweh when he claims to be the one and only god? He's a pretty shady and insecure guy to be putting trust in about something like that. Maybe he's hiding from you that there are other gods, or that there used to be other gods, and he killed them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I agree that the new guy cannot address every single question from multiple questioners. I'm sure he has a life. I ask questions. It's nice to get an answer, but if I don't , oh well, it's off to videogame-land. :-) The harder or more focused the question, the more likely theists will avoid your post. That may be true. I guess really it's good enough that the Christian just reads some of the things that the knowledgeable Ex-c's provide to them. The more time a (True) Christian spends here the more information he/she will gain that will drill holes in their belief system. Once you know an argument against some doctrine you can't un-know it and it will cause an internal fight against the brainwashing of Christianity. Eventually their Christianity becomes like Swiss cheese. The Christian may not publicly acknowledge the strength of those arguments against Christianity and may actively speak out in defense of his faith but in moments of quiet reflection the Christian will remember those things he has learned at Ex-c and cannot un-learn and cannot truly deny them without lying to himself. Christianity, the lie that the believer knows is a lie and chooses to pretend to believe the lie anyway....for a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I admit I've been a bit liberal in my praise of our latest Christian poster. To be fair to him though, he did set an unreasonably high expectation for himself, i.e. "everyone can ask a question and I'll answer them all." A wiser poster might have limited himself to the first three questions, best three, etc. Yet he opened himself up to an unlimited number of questions, and we were all happy to provide them, so I was never expecting him to answer every question in a timely manner. He has, however, been consistently posting in this thread instead of doing the hit-and-run tactic I described earlier. That puts him above the last couple of posters we had. Time will tell if he continues this trend. My guess is that in the very near future he'll find it onerous to deliver on what he promised, and he will simply leave. I certainly hope this isn't the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Thanks Bhim, I just answered the father and mother question on the Who Are You to Worship God thread. It's on page 2 post 39. If more of an explanation is needed let me know. Hi Ironhorse. I appreciate the effort you put into your explanation of Luke 14:26 (and related passages on hating your mother and father). I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the text, but there's a larger issue I'd like to address. You answered RedneckProfessor's question on your personal behavior towards your parents. I, on the other hand, told you a little about myself (and please, feel free to ask for more details, I'm not shy about my personal life with regards to Christianity). I gave you enough information to hopefully understand why the price is a bit higher for me to convert to Christianity than it is for you, and asked you why I should convert nonetheless. Perhaps it will help if I put this more directly. As you stated in post #61, your father is a Baptist minister. I gather that both your parents are therefore Christians. I don't know if your father was in the SBC, some independent fundamental church, or an ABC church (i.e. I don't know if your parents are evangelical or liberal Christians). In any case, I assume you came to faith in Jesus at some young age, maybe as a child or perhaps in college. How did your parents react to this? If they are evangelical, I would guess they would rejoice, and if they are liberal perhaps their reaction was a bit more reserved. I don't know anything about you so I can't say for certain. But I'm guessing that your faith in Jesus did not cause any family strife. Is this right? When I became a Christian, my decision did indeed put strain on the family. It was definitely not regarded as a good thing. Evangelical Christian culture tends to emphasize people's individualism. In my religion and culture, families are a bit more strongly connected, and one person's life choices are regarded in terms of how they affect everyone. I did not leave Christianity because I started questioning the Bible's veracity or because I fell into some sin. Truthfully, I never believed apologetic arguments about the Bible, and despite this I would have remained a Christian anyway. I left Christianity after six years because my belief in Jesus was antithetical to valuing my family, and I chose them over him. Jesus says to "count the cost" before becoming his disciple. The problem here is that the cost is much higher for me than it is for you. People are not equal in this regard. Does this help to clarify my question? I'll PM to remind you that I've responded to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Bhim, "2.Jesus is not only announcing but reminding them that loyalty to God takes precedence over family and friends when there is conflict. Christian who have done this in the past and present in countries where conversions to Christianity is against the law are aware of this verse." ~ Ironhorse So, if you are from a non-christian country or culture, I guess you are shit out of luck. I guess somehow this is supposed to make it okay. But then again white/western privilege rears it's ugly head. Eskimo. "Would I go to hell if I didn't know about christ?" Missionary. "no" Eskimo. "Then why did you tell me?" That's a very interesting idea. I admit I've never liked the idea of accusing anyone of having "white privilege," but in the case of Christianity I suppose the related concept of Western privilege is quite apt. I have asserted previously that Christianity is a Western European religion. And I suppose that what I wrote in my previous post above can be equivalently stated as, "your ability to successfully convert to Christianity depends heavily on where and to whom you are born." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 After reading some Jewish stuff on Judaism I think you are right. Judaism is quite different from christianity. I don't know much, I admit, but it's interesting to get their point of view. I will peruse more when I can. Western culture is based on Greek and Roman concepts (after they 'converted' my ancestors the 'barbarians' (Celts, and Nordics too) at the point of a sword ) It is most definitely not eastern in any way. Constantinople may have been the origin of the christian religion but after Rome took over it became very "Roman'. (Even today Turkey remains an odd mixture of occidental and oriental culture.) I find it interesting that even though the English were in India for so long the population remains primarily Hindu (and Buddhist, Sikh, Muslim). Again, I don't know much about it - but it's an interesting phenomena. I won't go into western white male privilege - because that could quickly go off topic, but it's a thing that has a huge impact on the world and I believe is intrinsically wrapped up with christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 bornagainathiest, The answer is yes you may demonstrate that God does not exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 After reading some Jewish stuff on Judaism I think you are right. Judaism is quite different from christianity. I don't know much, I admit, but it's interesting to get their point of view. I will peruse more when I can. Hey Ravenstar - Check our chabad.org. There is an "Ask a Rabbi" option there. I went there to ask what the Jewish view was on the Fall of Man story. It was an eye-opener. They're really nice people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 OK. So IronHorse is still posting here. So let me ask a fourth time, Why are you here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 bornagainathiest, The answer is yes you may demonstrate that God does not exists. Which one? There are thousands of gods and goddesses in human religion. You can't prove any of them don't exist. So naturally you are going to follow them all, right? You can't prove that super heros don't exist either so it would presumptuous of us to say that Superman is fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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