God Is Good. All The Time......all The Time. God Is Good.

[TheOutsider]

The question becomes was obedience to God's nature a function of creation. I'm thinking it was by: Gen 1:31

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

....did "image" include obedience.

 

I actually liked your post.....head and shoulders above everyone. Thanks for the effort.

I would say no. What use would god possibly have for being obedient?

 

Forgetting the pantheon he came from and whatnot, because the christian myth is that god was the only being in existence before he made anything.

 

God wouldn't have any sense of obedience towards anything, because he doesn't need it, there was nothing to be obedient to. Therefore he wouldn't pass that trait on to his creation as part of his "image", because it wouldn't be a part of his "image". Unless he made that trait for his creation, but clearly he didn't. I mean, just look at  Lucifer, the army of angels he recruited to his side, Lilith, and Eve. So, clearly, obedience to god's nature is not a function of creation, otherwise god wouldn't have had everything he created with a mind of it's own turn against him.

 

A running theme of the bible is that everything god made disobeys him, everything god does blows up in his face, and he never accepts responsibility for any of it. Only blames and punishes it for doing exactly what he made it to do, quite the incompetent and arrogant god you have there, I must say.

 

Of course it doesn't matter what the story says or means, it's clearly all bullshit and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone with a brain.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Was Eve acting out of line?

 

     Genesis 2

     ⁹ The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

     Genesis 3

     ⁶ When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

 

     Hmmm.  The only thing that's added in the latter verse is "desirable for gaining wisdom" but otherwise it seems nothing new is going on with Eve that wasn't going on before the old serpent showed up on the scene.  Actually before anyone showed up on the scene.  Somehow the person who wrote this knew the trees were pleasing to the eye having never witnessed a thing since Adam gets placed in the garden after v2:9 so it makes what is said in v3:6 a tad suspect (in that this would be the author projecting not something we might expect of Eve).  Anyhow we can remove "good for food" and "pleasing to the eye" as unique to Eve.  These are just how things were.

 

     So now it's more like "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was ... desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it" or perhaps "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was no different from the other trees of the garden, in that it was pleasing to the eye and good for food, and was also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."

 

     A tad wordy but I wanted to get the point across.  Now Eve doesn't look like someone who was tempted into doing some horrible deed.  She looks like someone, who given new information, decided to make the logical choice.  Here was a fruit that was no different than all the rest, except, it offered wisdom/insight as a bonus.

 

     There are two identical people.  One says if you eat this you will die.  The other says eat this and you will gain wisdom.  That's it.  Because you don't have the ability, yet, to know good from bad and vice-versa.  So you can choose to never eat out of fear of death (something you probably also don't know/understand given the situation).  Or  you eat the fruit to become like your friend god.  Adam and Eve would have no reason to not want to become like their good friend god (or even their new friend serpent for that matter) and if eating the fruit allowed that then why not?  It's god that apparently did not want them to become like him (even though we're told we should be like god all the time).

 

     There is no being tempted to choose good over evil here.  They didn't have that ability yet.  They weren't even choosing good or evil at this point.  They were choosing life/ignorance or death/wisdom.  They were choosing to be like their supposed friend god or remain the same.  That's all.  If you believe that good=life/ignorance/human-like and evil=death/wisdom/god-like then that is the choice that they made but they couldn't make that choice until after they ate the fruit as they gained the ability to know good and evil in that sense at that point in time.

 

          mwc

The question becomes was obedience to God's nature a function of creation. I'm thinking it was by: Gen 1:31

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

....did "image" include obedience.

 

I actually liked your post.....head and shoulders above everyone. Thanks for the effort.

 

 

If obedience was a function of god's creation, then Adam and Eve were robots who had no choice but to follow that function.

 

Encoding obedience into Adam and Eve's DNA defeats the whole point of god creating them in the first place!

 

God wants robots who'll blindly obey him, not free-willed people who'll choose to obey him?

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Oy vey!  

 

[EyesOpened]

Why didn't God just put those two angels to guard the tree BEFORE they ate the fruit? Would have solved a whole lot of problems.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

The question becomes was obedience to God's nature a function of creation. I'm thinking it was by: Gen 1:31

 

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

....did "image" include obedience.

 

I actually liked your post.....head and shoulders above everyone. Thanks for the effort.

 

 

I know that you're not talking to me, End.

I also know that you'll refuse to answer any question I put directly to you.  That you'll also refuse to answer any question of mine put to you by someone else.  That's fine.  So my questions to you aren't really for your benefit.  They're for the benefit of everyone else.  

 

I also happen to know that you have a 'thing' about obedience.

That (somehow) you rate obedience as being more important than understanding, knowledge and choice.  That Adam and Eve should have obeyed god, even if they couldn't understand why they should obey him.  Hence this 'function of creation' notion of yours.  That god somehow made it natural for them to obey him.  That obedience was somehow on a par with digestion, a pre-programmed and innate function of their being that they had no control or influence over.  

 

For you, Genesis is all about obedience, right?

It's got nothing to do with Adam and Eve having the knowledge to choose to obey or disobey god.  You think they should have obeyed him on some other level than that of knowledge-based choice.  Because it was somehow written into their basic nature by god, just like the rest of his creation.  

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.

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"The question becomes was obedience to god a function of creation."

 

The answer to that question is no.

 

The Outsider answered the question perfectly.  A & E were made in god's image but that image has nothing to do with god's obedience to himself because that's a nonsense.  God cannot be disobedient to himself.  The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are, were and will always be in perfect harmony.  They always have been, are and always will be this way thru perfect knowledge and understanding of each other - not thru any kind of obedience to each other.

 

And where one person of the trinity chooses to be obedient to another, that's a freely-made choice made in full knowledge and understanding of what's being chosen.  Jesus knew and understood what the Father was asking of him in Gethsemane and he chose to be obedient.  He didn't end up on the cross because he was naturally predisposed to obey his father.  He chose to obey him.  He knew what was good and what was evil and he chose to obey and do the good.  

 

So you can't argue that the word 'image' means or implies obedience, End.

 

Genesis 2 : 9

9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

Genesis 2 : 16 & 17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

 

Genesis 3 : 5

5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,knowing good and evil.”

 

Genesis 3 : 22

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us,knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 

 

Genesis isn't about obedience, it's about knowledge and choice, ok?

[mymistake]

 

If obedience was a function of god's creation, then Adam and Eve were robots who had no choice but to follow that function.

 

Encoding obedience into Adam and Eve's DNA defeats the whole point of god creating them in the first place!

 

God wants robots who'll blindly obey him, not free-willed people who'll choose to obey him?

 

 

 

 

 

Which actually would have been far better for us.  We would simply go about our lives.  There would be no

 

shame, no guilt, no hell.  According to the fairy tail there would be no sin in the world so no disease, no

 

cancer, no suffering.  God messed up because he wanted us to choose and wanted to punish those who

 

choose differently than what God wanted.

[EyesOpened]

 

 

 

The question becomes was obedience to God's nature a function of creation. I'm thinking it was by: Gen 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

....did "image" include obedience.

I actually liked your post.....head and shoulders above everyone. Thanks for the effort.

 

I know that you're not talking to me, End.

I also know that you'll refuse to answer any question I put directly to you.  That you'll also refuse to answer any question of mine put to you by someone else.  That's fine.  So my questions to you aren't really for your benefit.  They're for the benefit of everyone else.  

 

I also happen to know that you have a 'thing' about obedience.

That (somehow) you rate obedience as being more important than understanding, knowledge and choice.  That Adam and Eve should have obeyed god, even if they couldn't understand why they should obey him.  Hence this 'function of creation' notion of yours.  That god somehow made it natural for them to obey him.  That obedience was somehow on a par with digestion, a pre-programmed and innate function of their being that they had no control or influence over.  

 

For you, Genesis is all about obedience, right?

It's got nothing to do with Adam and Eve having the knowledge to choose to obey or disobey god.  You think they should have obeyed him on some other level than that of knowledge-based choice.  Because it was somehow written into their basic nature by god, just like the rest of his creation.  

.

.

.

"The question becomes was obedience to god a function of creation."

 

The answer to that question is no.

 

The Outsider answered the question perfectly.  A & E were made in god's image but that image has nothing to do with god's obedience to himself because that's a nonsense.  God cannot be disobedient to himself.  The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are, were and will always be in perfect harmony.  They always have been, are and always will be this way thru perfect knowledge and understanding of each other - not thru any kind of obedience to each other.

 

And where one person of the trinity chooses to be obedient to another, that's a freely-made choice made in full knowledge and understanding of what's being chosen.  Jesus knew and understood what the Father was asking of him in Gethsemane and he chose to be obedient.  He didn't end up on the cross because he was naturally predisposed to obey his father.  He chose to obey him.  He knew what was good and what was evil and he chose to obey and do the good.  

 

So you can't argue that the word 'image' means or implies obedience, End.

 

Genesis 2 : 9

9 The [/size]Lord[/size] God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees[/size] that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life[/size] and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.[/size]

 

Genesis 2 : 16 & 17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;[/size] [/size]17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”[/size]

 

Genesis 3 : 5

5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,[/size]knowing good and evil.”[/size]

 

Genesis 3 : 22

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us,knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”[/size] [/size]

 

Genesis isn't about obedience, it's about knowledge and choice, ok?

I agree BAA.

 

You really don't even have to look at the religious aspect to see what is happening with some people. Some people in this world are FOLLOWERS. They can't and wont step outside of their box to see what else there is. It is too scary for them. It seems like a programming from birth and it carries over into religion with them. It gives them the safe feeling and a scapegoat. I was like End at one point but not anymore. So, it seems that this behavior can change and is not hardwired.

[midniterider]

 

E3, just give up. Just go read your holy book. We know it better than you, and it's obvious we do. You DONT have a leg to stand on in this argument.

 

Now go away, before I taunt you a second time! 3:)

Doesn't much change what you have accomplished here. We will all know one day. Better hope you assumed right.

You better be right about your disobedience to Allah, and Zenu. The way you ignore the angel Moroni, The Watchtower, the Eck Masters, Zeus and The Morrigan make me fear for your soul.

[mymistake]

 

 

E3, just give up. Just go read your holy book. We know it better than you, and it's obvious we do. You DONT have a leg to stand on in this argument.

 

Now go away, before I taunt you a second time! 3:)

Doesn't much change what you have accomplished here. We will all know one day. Better hope you assumed right.

You better be right about your disobedience to Allah, and Zenu. The way you ignore the angel Moroni, The Watchtower, the Eck Masters, Zeus and The Morrigan make me fear for your soul.

 

 

 

Which End3 feels completely safe ignoring because he is totally cool with thinking logically about all other

 

religions and naturally concluding hard atheism for every single one.  But not his God.  His God is the real

 

God.

[midniterider]

 

E3, just give up. Just go read your holy book. We know it better than you, and it's obvious we do. You DONT have a leg to stand on in this argument.

 

Now go away, before I taunt you a second time! 3:)

Doesn't much change what you have accomplished here. We will all know one day. Better hope you assumed right.

The word salad and redirection failing, he plays the fear card.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

Pascal's wager really does fail for 3 reasons:

 

1. Yes I really do have a lot to lose serving a fake god whom i beleive wants to destroy me if I reject him. Time and money, for one thing. All that time sitting in church and serving in ministry could be better spent with my family and enjoying my life, for one. Pouring my hard earned cash into it is bad enough but pouring out my heart and soul into THE LORD'S WORK is exhausting and emotionally draining. Its full of stress and makes me physically ill. Plus, having to constantly deny myself and follow all these strict rules for no reason makes NO SENSE. If this is our only life, I would have completely wasted it for a god that doesn't exist and for a reward that will never come. Its quite sad, really.

 

2.Like you guys said, there are thousands of gods. How do I know I've chosen the right one? No matter what, I'm making a wager. My atheism is the more logical wager as I am simply choosing to not play the game at all. After all, no sense picking the wrong god out of the thousands and then finding out that I've pissed the real one off.

 

3. Simply believing in God and serving him "just in case" is just moronic. If I were God, I'd be insulted if my followers used logic like that on a daily basis. No. Just no. I'd want them to use the brains I gave them and I'd want them to look at the evidence I've presented them with for my existence. If I don't present any, it means that I DONT want them to know I exist, so why punish them for not believing in me? I gave them no good reason to believe. So its my fault, not theirs.

[Guest Furball]

Why didn't God just put those two angels to guard the tree BEFORE they ate the fruit? 

 

Because that would have ruined the whole story. God needed people to torture, so he set up the fall on purpose. The bible states it clearly. Another question no christian can answer is why god put the tree there at all in the first place. Then again, we are debating a book that has been proven fake and that doesn't line up with reality. Here is an example:

 

 

 

 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. luke 1:53

 

 

 

                              

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somebody's full of shit. Yeah, lets keep trying to prove the bible true by quoting from the bible. 

[Guest end3]

 

Why didn't God just put those two angels to guard the tree BEFORE they ate the fruit?

 

Because that would have ruined the whole story. God needed people to torture, so he set up the fall on purpose. The bible states it clearly. Another question no christian can answer is why god put the tree there at all in the first place. Then again, we are debating a book that has been proven fake and that doesn't line up with reality. Here is an example:

 

 

 

 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. luke 1:53

 

 

 

 

                              

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somebody's full of shit. Yeah, lets keep trying to prove the bible true by quoting from the bible.

 

You have the option of taking responsibility for these people rather than blaming God and Christianity.

[Guest Furball]

 

 logical and well thought out are not beyond my capacity. 

 

 

 

[mymistake]

 

You have the option of taking responsibility for these people rather than blaming God and Christianity.

 

 

Damn dirty lies.

 

 

 

Neither Coolcat nor the rest of us have infinite resources nor infinite knowledge nor infinite power.  

 

Furthermore we didn't create the world, set it up for a fall or create all of these problems.  Christianity

 

claims that God has all those things and with that comes responsibility.

[Guest Furball]

 

 It really doesn't boil down to logic. 

 

No...Fucking....Shit

 

That is why no one on here can get through to you. We're using logic. 

 

Thank you for admitting that to remain a christian means to remain in an illogical state of mind. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest end3]

 

You have the option of taking responsibility for these people rather than blaming God and Christianity.

 

Damn dirty lies.

 

 

 

Neither Coolcat nor the rest of us have infinite resources nor infinite knowledge nor infinite power.  

 

Furthermore we didn't create the world, set it up for a fall or create all of these problems.  Christianity

 

claims that God has all those things and with that comes responsibility.

 

It's not a lie at all MM. You can donate money, donate time, you name it.

[Guest end3]

 

It really doesn't boil down to logic.

 

No...Fucking....Shit

 

That is why no one on here can get through to you. We're using logic. 

 

Thank you for admitting that to remain a christian means to remain in an illogical state of mind.

 

It might be about logic if science were further along.

[EyesOpened]

 

 

You have the option of taking responsibility for these people rather than blaming God and Christianity.

 Damn dirty lies.   Neither Coolcat nor the rest of us have infinite resources nor infinite knowledge nor infinite power.   Furthermore we didn't create the world, set it up for a fall or create all of these problems.  Christianity claims that God has all those things and with that comes responsibility.

It's not a lie at all MM. You can donate money, donate time, you name it.

Ok End. Then according to your logic, i can run out and get unlimited credit, rack it up as much as i can, then you can take care of the bill for me when the time comes. Are you in?

[midniterider]

Pascal's wager really does fail for 3 reasons:

 

1. Yes I really do have a lot to lose serving a fake god whom i beleive wants to destroy me if I reject him. Time and money, for one thing. All that time sitting in church and serving in ministry could be better spent with my family and enjoying my life, for one. Pouring my hard earned cash into it is bad enough but pouring out my heart and soul into THE LORD'S WORK is exhausting and emotionally draining. Its full of stress and makes me physically ill. Plus, having to constantly deny myself and follow all these strict rules for no reason makes NO SENSE. If this is our only life, I would have completely wasted it for a god that doesn't exist and for a reward that will never come. Its quite sad, really.

 

2.Like you guys said, there are thousands of gods. How do I know I've chosen the right one? No matter what, I'm making a wager. My atheism is the more logical wager as I am simply choosing to not play the game at all. After all, no sense picking the wrong god out of the thousands and then finding out that I've pissed the real one off.

 

3. Simply believing in God and serving him "just in case" is just moronic. If I were God, I'd be insulted if my followers used logic like that on a daily basis. No. Just no. I'd want them to use the brains I gave them and I'd want them to look at the evidence I've presented them with for my existence. If I don't present any, it means that I DONT want them to know I exist, so why punish them for not believing in me? I gave them no good reason to believe. So its my fault, not theirs.

 

Why is it that Jesus never steps up and says, "You better believe in me, dammit!" It's always a human telling us we are doomed if we dont love the Jesus....

 

In 10 years I never heard a thing from Jesus. Heard a lot of stuff from people who 'thought' Jesus was telling them this and that but never from the source himself. So why would I be inclined to believe that Jesus will make an appearance upon my death?

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

I don't blame god, for he doesn't exist. I DONT blame Christianity, for it is not a living entity. I do what I can for suffering humanity, but my time and resources are limited. I do have a problem with Christians who spout all of this nonsense about how God does exist and here's a book that tells us all about him. In this book, this god of theirs gives not two shits about suffering humanity, and in fact, has created a place, somewhere, that is full of just that: suffering humanity. But he loves you. If you call bullshit, then fuck you, you're going there too!

[midniterider]

 

 

You have the option of taking responsibility for these people rather than blaming God and Christianity.

 

Damn dirty lies.

 

 

 

Neither Coolcat nor the rest of us have infinite resources nor infinite knowledge nor infinite power.  

 

Furthermore we didn't create the world, set it up for a fall or create all of these problems.  Christianity

 

claims that God has all those things and with that comes responsibility.

 

It's not a lie at all MM. You can donate money, donate time, you name it.

 

 

Why doesnt God just handle it?

[EyesOpened]

I don't blame god, for he doesn't exist. I DONT blame Christianity, for it is not a living entity. I do what I can for suffering humanity, but my time and resources are limited. I do have a problem with Christians who spout all of this nonsense about how God does exist and here's a book that tells us all about him. In this book, this god of theirs gives not two shits about suffering humanity, and in fact, has created a place, somewhere, that is full of just that: suffering humanity. But he loves you. If you call bullshit, then fuck you, you're going there too!

Exactly.

 

So from what i understand God is irresponsible now. He makes this huge mess and we are left to clean it up. Hey, maybe thats the whole point of our existence. We are Gods Janitors!

[midniterider]

Why worship something that is absent and silent? Why worship something that gives you zero return? Why worship something if you have NO expectation that it will do anything at all? Why worship something that you have to make excuses for about why it never does anything helpful? Why defend something so useless?

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

You have the option of taking responsibility for these people rather than blaming God and Christianity.

 Damn dirty lies.   Neither Coolcat nor the rest of us have infinite resources nor infinite knowledge nor infinite power.   Furthermore we didn't create the world, set it up for a fall or create all of these problems.  Christianity claims that God has all those things and with that comes responsibility.

 

It's not a lie at all MM. You can donate money, donate time, you name it.

 

Ok End. Then according to your logic, i can run out and get unlimited credit, rack it up as much as i can, then you can take care of the bill for me when the time comes. Are you in?

 

Lol, if you were my neighbor. On a realistic note, Christians tithe. Also, God says love your neighbor. If everyone took care of their neighbor as themselves, we might not see those pictures.

[EyesOpened]

 

 

 

 

You have the option of taking responsibility for these people rather than blaming God and Christianity.

 Damn dirty lies.   Neither Coolcat nor the rest of us have infinite resources nor infinite knowledge nor infinite power.   Furthermore we didn't create the world, set it up for a fall or create all of these problems.  Christianity claims that God has all those things and with that comes responsibility.

It's not a lie at all MM. You can donate money, donate time, you name it.

Ok End. Then according to your logic, i can run out and get unlimited credit, rack it up as much as i can, then you can take care of the bill for me when the time comes. Are you in?

Lol, if you were my neighbor. On a realistic note, Christians tithe. Also, God says love your neighbor. If everyone took care of their neighbor as themselves, we might not see those pictures.

Where do you live, i am moving next door, lol. So are you telling me location is the only reason you wont do this for me?