Christians: Why would an all-good God base our salvation from Hell on whether or not we believe in a 2,000-year-old supernatural story?

[Stranger]

 

 

You fail to understand.

 

GR is in contradiction to the Bible and you have rejected it on that basis.  

 

But GPS relies on GR and your life is profoundly influenced by GPS.

 

Therefore, your life is profoundly influenced by GR.

 

Therefore your life is profoundly in contradiction to the Bible.

 

 

 

Not so.  As I said, I am not against science until it comes agaisnt the Bible.  GPS does not come agaisnt the Bible.

 

As long as science stays in its territory, fine.

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

 

Then we're both happy.

 

Yes.

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

 

Are these rhetorical questions?

 

View them as you like.

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Not so.  As I said, I am not against science until it comes agaisnt the Bible.  GPS does not come agaisnt the Bible.

 

As long as science stays in its territory, fine.

 

Stranger

 

GR comes against the Bible.

 

Therefore, GPS does so too.

 

You cannot cherry-pick or divide GR from GPS.

 

That is just dishonest!

 

 

[Stranger]

 

     Don't sweat it. Looks like you've been kept busy.  I'm thinking it's post 357.  I screwed up trying to link to it.

 

          mwc

 

 

Thanks.  I will try and get back later to it.

 

Stranger

[ag_NO_stic]

 

 

1.)  Why should I trust those who do not believe the Bible to interpret the Bible?  

 

2.)  You may be speaking in hypotheticals.  I am not.    Did I not give you a verse?   No, God cannot cease being God.  

 

3.)  I explained that already.  

 

4.)  Moses was in the presence of God.  

 

Stranger  

 

1) Why should you not? We once proclaimed his name and believed as you did, we interpreted scripture like you do now. Who's to say God isn't using this, who are you to question god? For all we know, you are a false teacher the bible warns others about.

 

2) You gave me a verse about the reason for Christ being the sacrifice so that he can be both just and the justifier and I gave you a counter example. Your verse did not say anything about someone who is not being saved being let into heaven and then obliterated. Both examples being hypothetical, correct?

 

3) Well I clearly didn't get it, so maybe try again? Just because you say that God's forgiveness is different than what he asks of us, doesn't make it so. What's the difference? Why should I forgive if God won't?

 

4) So did god tell him the creation story directly or was it passed down for generations?

 

[Stranger]

 

 

GR comes against the Bible.

 

Therefore, GPS does so too.

 

You cannot cherry-pick or divide GR from GPS.

 

That is just dishonest!

 

 

 

It's like a rifle.  It all depends on which way you point it.   

 

As far as GPS, well and good.  As far as disproving anything in the Bible, it is false.   

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

Stranger, 

 

Please take the time to carefully study those five links.

 

Read and appreciate just how much of your life they affect.

 

Then realize that GPS cannot work without GR.

 

That's like expecting your car to run with no gas in the tank.

 

 

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

It's like a rifle.  It all depends on which way you point it.   

 

As far as GPS, well and good.  As far as disproving anything in the Bible, it is false.   

 

Stranger

 

I'm not using GR to disprove the Bible.

 

I'm using it (via GPS) to show you just how deeply and strongly your life is influenced by GR.

 

The very thing you just rejected.

 

 

[Stranger]

 

 

1) Why should you not? We once proclaimed his name and believed as you did, we interpreted scripture like you do now. Who's to say God isn't using this, who are you to question god? For all we know, you are a false teacher the bible warns others about.

 

2) You gave me a verse about the reason for Christ being the sacrifice so that he can be both just and the justifier and I gave you a counter example. Your verse did not say anything about someone who is not being saved being let into heaven and then obliterated. Both examples being hypothetical, correct?

 

3) Well I clearly didn't get it, so maybe try again? Just because you say that God's forgiveness is different than what he asks of us, doesn't make it so. What's the difference? Why should I forgive if God won't?

 

4) So did god tell him the creation story directly or was it passed down for generations?

 

 

1.)  Because you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.  

 

2.)  My example is not hypothetical.  It is what would happen.  God must be 'just' and the 'justifier'.  He has to make it right.

 

3.)   God does forgive.  As I explained. 

 

4.)  I believe God gave it to Moses directly.    

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

Stranger, 

 

Please take the time to carefully study those five links.

 

Read and appreciate just how much of your life they affect.

 

Then realize that GPS cannot work without GR.

 

That's like expecting your car to run with no gas in the tank.

 

 

 

I don't mind GR being used for GPS.   I have no problem with it.  My problem arises when it is used agaisnt the Bible.  

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

 

I'm not using GR to disprove the Bible.

 

I'm using it (via GPS) to show you just how deeply and strongly your life is influenced by GR.

 

The very thing you just rejected.

 

 

 

Didn't you say before that GR contradicted the Bible?

 

Stranger

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

2.)  No.  God cannot just say I took care of it.  He must take care of it.

 

For example:  John Doe is lost.  God is up there in Heaven and sees John Doe.  God says, I sure like old John.  I would like him to be here in Heaven with Me so I will forget the Sin thing.   And when John dies God opens the gates of Heaven to let him in.  But then there is immediate judgement from God that destroys John.

 

God righteous nature will not allow sin in His presence without judgement.   He cannot just say it's ok to be here.  He must make it right that the believer is there.  He must really and literally remove the sin.  Only in this way can He be both 'just and the justifier'. (Rom. 3:26)

 

 

 

Stranger

Thank you for demonstrating, yet again, that god is not omnipotent.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Didn't you say before that GR contradicted the Bible?

 

Stranger

 

Yes.

 

And you accepted that it did.

 

Which means that you also accept that GPS contradicts the BIble.

 

Which means that every area of your life affected by GR and GPS also contradicts the Bible.

 

GR and GPS cannot be separated into different compartments in your life.

 

Your life is far, far too deeply entwined with the influence of GR (via GPS) for you to do that.

 

 

[ag_NO_stic]

 

 

1.)  Because you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.  

 

2.)  My example is not hypothetical.  It is what would happen.  God must be 'just' and the 'justifier'.  He has to make it right.

 

3.)   God does forgive.  As I explained. 

 

4.)  I believe God gave it to Moses directly.    

 

Stranger

 

I do not understand how you cannot give these very serious questions legitimate serious consideration. You are giving us the answers you have been taught to spout your whole life. You seem incapable of grasping that we used to say what you are. We used to believe what you do. You think, because you are still a believer, that we were not once like you. You would be assuming incorrectly, because we have looked into things more critically. Many of us did this to protect and be able to defend our faith and it ended up shattering our faith.

 

Here is the fact. Your god lied. The bible says all you need is the faith of a mustard seed. The bible says the lord your god hears our prayers, our cries out to him. It says he records our tears and counts them. It says to seek and the door will be opened to you. All of us who had mustard seed faith and who sought him "got our answer" in seeing the bible as complete bullshit.  

 

You cannot just write off anything that "goes against" the bible (multiple subjects) and expect that this will convert normal, sane people to your side. Your book has serious, serious errors. And instead of assuming you know them, you need to look into them. I'm providing a beginner's link, should you decide to begin the process.

 

Click here for a list of inconsistency/contradictions one after another. Just look at them before you write them off. 

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

I don't mind GR being used for GPS.   I have no problem with it.  My problem arises when it is used agaisnt the Bible.  

 

Stranger

 

It's really very simple, Stranger.

 

All of GR contradicts the Bible and you've agreed that it does.

 

Since GR can't be separated from GPS, everything in your life touched by GPS is also touched by GR.

 

So in rejecting GR, you've rejected those parts of your life touched by it.

 

 

 

 

[Stranger]

 

 

Yes.

 

And you accepted that it did.

 

Which means that you also accept that GPS contradicts the BIble.

 

Which means that every area of your life affected by GR and GPS also contradicts the Bible.

 

GR and GPS cannot be separated into different compartments in your life.

 

Your life is far, far too deeply entwined with the influence of GR (via GPS) for you to do that.

 

 

 

GPS does not contradict the Bible.   

 

If you want to use GPS to contradict the Bible, then show me where.   

 

If you want to use GR to contradict the Bible, then I reject it.   

 

Science can learn a lot of things.  But when it comes against the Bible, I reject it.  Very simple. 

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

GPS does not contradict the Bible.   

 

If you want to use GPS to contradict the Bible, then show me where.   

 

It's in the first link.  Read it.  GR makes GPS work.

 

 

 

If you want to use GR to contradict the Bible, then I reject it.   

 

It's in the first link.  Read it.  GPS can't work without GR.

 

 

 

Science can learn a lot of things.  But when it comes against the Bible, I reject it.  Very simple. 

 

Stranger

 

And you've rejected GR (and therefore GPS too) in this thread

 

So, by rejecting GR as anti-Biblical, you also reject GPS as anti-Biblical.

 

Any part of your life affected by GPS is therefore affected by GR.

 

Read the links.

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 'Evil' as a force against God is simply a will outside of God's will.   A will other than God's.   

 

Stranger

If "evil" is a will outside of god's will, then it follows that god is not in control of "evil".  If god cannot control "evil", or the will of "evil" men, or the will of the "evil" one, then god is not omnipotent.  Thank you for demonstrating, yet again, that your god is not all-powerful.

 

Now, for the second time, I am asking you, @Stranger, to explain why you would worship a god who is not omnipotent.  Please explain it without merely asserting that god is omnipotent.  Please explain it without resorting to circular reasoning, such as the statement, "god is omnipotent because god cannot not be omnipotent".  Please explain, using your own words, and what passes for your own reasoning, why you would believe in a god who you clearly know, and have adequately demonstrated, is not all-powerful.  Thanks.

 

Have a good day,

TheRedneckProfessor

[bornagainathiest]

I'm not going round in circles any more with you today, Stranger.

 

Read the links.

 

Then get back to me with your new understanding.

 

 

 

[Stranger]

 

 

I do not understand how you cannot give these very serious questions legitimate serious consideration. You are giving us the answers you have been taught to spout your whole life. You seem incapable of grasping that we used to say what you are. We used to believe what you do. You think, because you are still a believer, that we were not once like you. You would be assuming incorrectly, because we have looked into things more critically. Many of us did this to protect and be able to defend our faith and it ended up shattering our faith.

 

Here is the fact. Your god lied. The bible says all you need is the faith of a mustard seed. The bible says the lord your god hears our prayers, our cries out to him. It says he records our tears and counts them. It says to seek and the door will be opened to you. All of us who had mustard seed faith and who sought him "got our answer" in seeing the bible as complete bullshit.  

 

You cannot just write off anything that "goes against" the bible (multiple subjects) and expect that this will convert normal, sane people to your side. Your book has serious, serious errors. And instead of assuming you know them, you need to look into them. I'm providing a beginner's link, should you decide to begin the process.

 

Click here for a list of inconsistency/contradictions one after another. Just look at them before you write them off. 

 

You describe me dishonestly.   I am not spouting what I have been taught.   I have studied the Scriptures and am telling you what I believe.    

 

God never lies, has never lied.   

 

There are many web cites with long list of contradictions of the Bible.   I am aware of them.  Apparent contradictions in the Bible do not concern me.

 

Stranger

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

God never lies, has never lied.   

 

 

Stranger

Is this because god... cannot... lie?  Perhaps because he is not omnipotent?

[florduh]

 

 

The Bible is the only Book written by God.

 

Sow the wind...reap the whirlwind.

 

Stranger

That is a baseless assertion that goes against all the evidence. It's so frustrating to peer into a deliberately closed mind.

[Stranger]

 

 

It's in the first link.  Read it.  GR makes GPS work.

 

 

It's in the first link.  Read it.  GPS can't work without GR.

 

 

And you've rejected GR (and therefore GPS too) in this thread

 

So, by rejecting GR as anti-Biblical, you also reject GPS as anti-Biblical.

 

Any part of your life affected by GPS is therefore affected by GR.

 

Read the links.

 

 

 

 

Good, I am fine with GR making GPS work.

 

I do not reject GPS unless you can show me that GPS is against the Bible. 

 

Not so.  If you want to use GR for GPS, fine.  If you want to use GR against the Bible, then I reject its use against the Bible.

 

I don't mind GR affecting my life.  I do mind it if GR is used against the Bible.

 

Stranger

 

 

[Stranger]

 

If "evil" is a will outside of god's will, then it follows that god is not in control of "evil".  If god cannot control "evil", or the will of "evil" men, or the will of the "evil" one, then god is not omnipotent.  Thank you for demonstrating, yet again, that your god is not all-powerful.

 

Now, for the second time, I am asking you, @Stranger, to explain why you would worship a god who is not omnipotent.  Please explain it without merely asserting that god is omnipotent.  Please explain it without resorting to circular reasoning, such as the statement, "god is omnipotent because god cannot not be omnipotent".  Please explain, using your own words, and what passes for your own reasoning, why you would believe in a god who you clearly know, and have adequately demonstrated, is not all-powerful.  Thanks.

 

Have a good day,

TheRedneckProfessor

 

Who said God cannot control evil?

 

Stranger