Christians: Why would an all-good God base our salvation from Hell on whether or not we believe in a 2,000-year-old supernatural story?

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

It isn't.  But the important thing is, that is what God wants.   God places His people among His people.  

 

And, why is it wrong to teach your children what you believe to be right?    Don't you?

 

Stranger

 

I have no children.

 

But the point is made.

 

There is no difference to us.

[Stranger]

 

 

1) Are we not included in "others?" Wasn't "Pharoh's hardened heart" ultimately used for his will? What if is using us heathens to put a hole in your erroneous thinking? Also, it's still "your understanding" if you don't believe you are leaning on your own understanding. 

 

2) Where is this "immediate judgment" you are talking about in Scripture? We are talking in hypotheticals, it sounds like you think you know for sure what would happen.

 

Counter Example: Your mother is a conservative and she raises you this way. She teaches you things like, "homosexuality is wrong," "don't cuss," "don't smoke the weed," "don't drink." You grow up, decide to reject those values and live your own life. You embrace friends who are gay, cuss, drink, and smoke. If she declares to you that you owe her for all your childhood expenses....and that nothing you pay personally will suffice. But only her own money (or possibly your near-perfect, conservative half-brother's reincarnated money) (I'll ignore the creepiness of blood atonement for now) will do as atonement....does your mother not also have the option to just call off the declared debt? Isn't she already calling it off by paying herself? When you say "God doesn't have the option, it's in his nature...." that is a ludicrous statement if he is omnipotent. If he's omnipotent, he can change it or he isn't omnipotent.

 

3) Why in the world is our forgiveness not the same as God's? Why must God deal with "every wrong?"

 

4) How did Moses know that it was real and not our version of "Cinderella's once upon a time?"

 

1.)  Why should I trust those who do not believe the Bible to interpret the Bible?  

 

2.)  You may be speaking in hypotheticals.  I am not.    Did I not give you a verse?   No, God cannot cease being God.  

 

3.)  I explained that already.  

 

4.)  Moses was in the presence of God.  

 

Stranger  

[Stranger]

 

 

How do you know?  Please be exact.

 

 

Then let us see the science that supports them.

 

 

Examples please.

 

 

Yes. It can.  It does.  

Total knowledge isn't necessary to know things.  A total knowledge of all math isn't necessary to know that 2 + 2 = 4.  A total knowledge of every road in the world isn't necessary for me to go to the mall.  And so it goes for many, many things.  Your point is simply wrong.

 

 

 

Because it goes against Scripture. 

 

I'm not interested in the science that supports them.   I'm interested in what the Scripture says.

 

I gave you examples.  The flood or evolution.

 

But, 2+2 isn't all there is to reality.  Is it?   And your one road to the mall isn't all there is to reality.  Is it?

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

 

Well, you don't need to be a scientist to understand the following.

 

General Relativity is fundamental to GPS.  http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

 

GPS affects your life in the following ways.

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-12.0/centery:25.0/zoom:4

http://www.gps.gov/applications/aviation/

http://heavy.com/tech/2015/02/top-best-gps-navigation-tracking-devices-for-cars-car/

http://us.gps-phonetracker.com/

 

Any time you rely on GPS for driving or use any product that traveled to where you bought it, you are relying on General Relativity.

Anything that has been shipped or flown into this country has come via GPS and therefore via General Relativity.

When you've flown you've unwittingly put your trust in GPS and therefore General Relativity.

General Relativity affects you, every hour of every day.

 

Still reject it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't reject GPS.   I reject GR when it is in conflict with the Bible.   GPS is not in conflict with the Bible that I am aware of.

 

Stranger

[florduh]

Inherit the wind..... 

 

 

[Stranger]

 

 

I have no children.

 

But the point is made.

 

There is no difference to us.

 

If you did, would you teach them what you believe to be right?

 

I understand you don't see a difference.  I was just explaining  that there is another factor involved.  

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

Inherit the wind..... 

 

 

 

The Bible is the only Book written by God.

 

Sow the wind...reap the whirlwind.

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

I don't reject GPS.   I reject GR when it is in conflict with the Bible.   GPS is not in conflict with the Bible that I am aware of.

 

Stranger

 

You cannot divide GR from GPS.

 

To use GPS is to use GR.

 

As I have already observed... you cherry pick.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

If you did, would you teach them what you believe to be right?

 

I understand you don't see a difference.  I was just explaining  that there is another factor involved.  

 

Stranger

 

I won't be exploring that hypothetical question.

 

You were just explaining that you believe by faith that there is another factor involved.

[mwc]

 

 

Yes.  But the first act is God placing the believer in the Christian family.   

 

Stranger

     I like your answer here.  I like it a lot.  So if you could now answer my last post to you?  You might want to keep this in mind when wading through it.  You know, what kind of "environment" our Satan was created in?  Our two original humans were also placed in?  Oh, lets not forget all the stuff you've said that involves the lack of free will for everyone except god and all that too while we're at it.  Also, keep describing sin in that way that utterly ignores what god literally said sin is all the while stating what you say sin is is exactly what god says it is.  That will make for an enjoyable answer I think.

 

          mwc

[Stranger]

 

 

You cannot divide GR from GPS.

 

To use GPS is to use GR.

 

As I have already observed... you cherry pick.

 

I don't see anything in GPS that goes against the Bible. 

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Because it goes against Scripture. 

 

I'm not interested in the science that supports them.   I'm interested in what the Scripture says.

 

I gave you examples.  The flood or evolution.

 

But, 2+2 isn't all there is to reality.  Is it?   And your one road to the mall isn't all there is to reality.  Is it?

 

Stranger

 

Nobody can know all there is to reality and nobody needs to know all there is to reality.

 

Your argument is fallacious.

[Stranger]

 

 

I won't be exploring that hypothetical question.

 

You were just explaining that you believe by faith that there is another factor involved.

 

Why?  I thought science like to do that sort of thing.

 

Of course.  As I have said, what I believe comes from the Bible.

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

I don't see anything in GPS that goes against the Bible. 

 

Stranger

 

GPS uses General Relativity.

 

You have just rejected GR as being contrary the Bible.

 

Your life is a powerful testament to GR.

 

Therefore, your life is also strongly in contradiction to the Bible.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Why?  I thought science like to do that sort of thing.

 

Of course.  As I have said, what I believe comes from the Bible.

 

Stranger

 

Your response illustrates that you have a very inaccurate understanding of science.

[Stranger]

 

     I like your answer here.  I like it a lot.  So if you could now answer my last post to you?  You might want to keep this in mind when wading through it.  You know, what kind of "environment" our Satan was created in?  Our two original humans were also placed in?  Oh, lets not forget all the stuff you've said that involves the lack of free will for everyone except god and all that too while we're at it.  Also, keep describing sin in that way that utterly ignores what god literally said sin is all the while stating what you say sin is is exactly what god says it is.  That will make for an enjoyable answer I think.

 

          mwc

 

Sorry, remind me your last post that I need to answer.    I try to answer all.

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

 

Nobody can know all there is to reality and nobody needs to know all there is to reality.

 

Your argument is fallacious.

 

That is an assumption on your part.  Isn't it?

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

That is an assumption on your part.  Isn't it?

 

Stranger

 

We all proceed by assumptions.

 

Just because something is assumed, that doesn't make it invalid.

[Stranger]

 

 

GPS uses General Relativity.

 

You have just rejected GR as being contrary the Bible.

 

Your life is a powerful testament to GR.

 

Therefore, your life is also strongly in contradiction to the Bible.

 

No, what I said, is if GR is used against the Bible then I reject it's use against the Bible.  If you want to use it for GPS, fine.

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

 

Your response illustrates that you have a very inaccurate understanding of science.

 

Science doesn't deal with hypotheticals?  Hypothesis?  

 

Stranger

[Stranger]

 

 

We all proceed by assumptions.

 

Just because something is assumed, that doesn't make it invalid.

 

Just makes it an assumption.

 

Stranger

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

No, what I said, is if GR is used against the Bible then I reject it's use against the Bible.  If you want to use it for GPS, fine.

 

Stranger

 

You fail to understand.

 

GR is in contradiction to the Bible and you have rejected it on that basis.  

 

But GPS relies on GR and your life is profoundly influenced by GPS.

 

Therefore, your life is profoundly influenced by GR.

 

Therefore your life is profoundly in contradiction to the Bible.

 

 

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Just makes it an assumption.

 

Stranger

 

Then we're both happy.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Science doesn't deal with hypotheticals?  Hypothesis?  

 

Stranger

 

Are these rhetorical questions?

[mwc]

 

 

Sorry, remind me your last post that I need to answer.    I try to answer all.

 

Stranger

     Don't sweat it. Looks like you've been kept busy.  I'm thinking it's post 357.  I screwed up trying to link to it.

 

          mwc