Time for a real debate!

[Merlinfmct87]

It is... yeah. I heard one where a woman committed suicide by mortally wounding herself three times, threw the knife out the window, and THEN died.

 

Gotta love a low crime rate...

 

Merlin

[Abiyoyo]

Look at other planetary bodies in our solar system. Let's look at planets and moons first.  Some planets, like Earth, have a moon(s) right? And some planets' moons rotate at differing speeds as they orbit the planet. Why is this? Oh, laws of gravity and such. Take at look at our moon. The same face of the moon is always facing the earth. The speed of its rotation has slowed down because of the force of the earth pulling on it. Well you know what? That same thing is slowly happening to the earth as well.  This also plays a role into why there are SETI groups out there. But that is getting into a different topic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What do you believe, Do you believe God created this earth? Do you believe that this earth (by biblical calculation) is between 6000-10000 years old?This is the standard timeline, from churches to stern creationists. The difference in the two is that on is zealous in trying to obtain knowledge about the "creational proof" of this earth, and the other being the church, mostly, is just the standard teaching of the "calculations" of the timeline of the Biblical events in the Bible. The ultimate result, sadly, is if as a believer in Christ, you are also a believer in the OT, (correct so far?), as a believer in Christ, you are considered a Christian(correct so far?). So then, if you claim to be a believer in Christ, in which is also a believer in the prophecies of Christ even as Christ Himself mentioned in the gospels; you believe that God created this world, as in the Bible. Does this make you a Christian if you dont believe this?Obcourse not, just being misguided. The truth in Christianity is in the Word of God. It is not something meant to be proven right or wrong, but yet His instructions and guide. The most imperative "need" in Christianity is the same one that Jesus proclaimed even to His disciples. Faith. If we cant have faith in the word of God, how can we have faith in the Holy Spirit?How can we have faith that Jesus said He is with us always? How can we have faith that God has healed us? How can we walk in the Spirit of God, in which Jesus gave us as a gift, and become closer to Him?His thoughts are not our thoughts, His way is not our way, His pathes our not our pathes. Book of Issiah(OT). How can we have "faith" to know this is true?BigToe, God is coming back, maybe not in the next thousand years, maybe tommorrow, we dont know. We must have faith in what God has given us as a guide, He says the only reason the world has not come to the End yet, is because of the select few. Many are falling away from faith. Lastly, Jesus said blessed are those that see me and believe, but More blessed are those that see me not, and believe. In order to believe in Christ, we must have faith ; the same faith to believe the entire Word of God.

God Bless

[white_raven23]

What do you believe, Do you believe God created this earth? Do you believe  that this earth (by biblical calculation) is between 6000-10000 years old?This is the standard timeline, from churches to stern creationists. The difference in the two is that on is zealous in trying to obtain knowledge about the "creational proof" of this earth, and the other being the church, mostly, is just the standard teaching of the "calculations" of the timeline of the Biblical events in the Bible. The ultimate result, sadly, is if as a believer in Christ, you are also a believer in the OT, (correct so far?), as a believer in Christ, you are considered a Christian(correct so far?). So then, if you claim to be a believer in Christ, in which is also a believer in the prophecies of Christ even as Christ Himself mentioned in the gospels; you believe that God created this world, as in the Bible. Does this make you a Christian if you dont believe this?Obcourse not, just being misguided. The truth in Christianity is in the Word of God. It is not something meant to be proven right or wrong, but yet His instructions and guide. The most imperative "need" in Christianity is the same one that Jesus proclaimed even to His disciples. Faith. If we cant have faith in the word of God, how can we have faith in the Holy Spirit?How can we have faith that Jesus said He is with us always? How can we have faith that God has healed us? How can we walk in the Spirit of God, in which Jesus gave us as a gift, and become closer to Him?His thoughts are not our thoughts, His way is not our way, His pathes our not our pathes. Book of Issiah(OT). How can we have "faith" to know this is true?BigToe, God is coming back, maybe not in the next thousand years, maybe tommorrow, we dont know. We must have faith in what God has given us as a guide, He says the only reason the world has not come to the End yet, is because of the select few. Many are falling away from faith. Lastly, Jesus said blessed are those that see me and believe, but More blessed are those that see me not, and believe. In order to believe in Christ, we must have faith ; the same faith to believe the entire Word of God.

God Bless

 

 

That's right YoYo, use your rhetoric on the ONLY people it's know to have any effect on.... other fellow christians.

 

Big Toe, don't listen to this toad. The creation story is a story. Evolution Theory talks about HOW the universe happened, it doesn't exclude in any way a WHO that could be responsible for it.

 

I don't see why you can't be a Christian and believe in evolution too.

 

Bible arguments only work among those who all believe in it. Internal warfare elite. I remember that.

 

Big Toe has a right to make up her own mind.

 

Pick on us you cannibal!! (yes Yoyo, I mean YOU)

[nirrti]

You ask how can one have faith in God and the Holy Spirit if one doesn't take in what the Bible says. Good question, because if a religion's survival is so entrenched on believing that a collection of 66 books are all true, it's a really flimsy faith.

 

I would rather believe the evidence of God's existance by looking at the beauty and magnificence of the universe and having direct experiences than rely on second-hand knowledge as a bases to live my life. In fact, science, which Christians hate, is a far better testiment to God's existance, not that I believe Christian dogma, I don't. I believe we don't know everything and our spirituallity is a personal matter no book or one can do for you.

[Abiyoyo]

That's right YoYo, use your rhetoric on the ONLY people it's know to have any effect on.... other fellow christians.

 

Big Toe, don't listen to this toad. The creation story is a story. Evolution Theory talks about HOW the universe happened, it doesn't exclude in any way a WHO that could be responsible for it.

 

I don't see why you can't be a Christian and believe in evolution too.

 

Bible arguments only work among those who all believe in it. Internal warfare elite. I remember that.

 

Big Toe has a right to make up her own mind.

 

Pick on us you cannibal!! (yes Yoyo, I mean YOU)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

White raven, I respect you veiws on this matter and appreciate you response. I have only spoke my "thought "on Big toes comments. Big toe WILL make up her own mind. I simply said the same as you,

 

The creation story is a story. Evolution Theory talks about HOW the universe happened, it doesn't exclude in any way a WHO that could be responsible for it.

 

See, you have done the same thing. The only difference is tht I proclaim to be the same "Christian" belief as Big Toe. I am obligated by Jesus to proclaim the teachings and "faith involvement of Jesus" which also includes the OT. Please dont be upset at my "beliefs" as I am not upset with yours. I respect others opinions of of their beliefs, even if I disagree with them. I only ask that the same be taken unto fellow Christians in this "open forum" . I am not preaching, rather I am making a respnse in "postive attitude" to a fellow believer of Christ.

[Abiyoyo]

You ask how can one have faith in God and the Holy Spirit if one doesn't take in what the Bible says.  Good question, because if a religion's survival is so entrenched on believing that a collection of 66 books are all true, it's a really flimsy faith. 

 

I would rather believe the evidence of God's existance by looking at the beauty and magnificence of the universe and having direct experiences than rely on second-hand knowledge as a bases to live my life.  In fact, science, which Christians hate, is a far better testiment to God's existance, not that I believe Christian dogma, I don't.  I believe we don't know everything and our spirituallity is a personal matter no book or one can do for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I truly understand your veiw on this matter, especially regarding science and "looking at the beauty". This is a vital role in my relationship with God in Christ, and take it to heart. Though the whole basis of the Christain movement is the Gospels of Christ in his teachings and instructions. Jesus mentioned the fulfillment of the "prophecies of the prophets", in which is the OT. He proclaims as mentiones earlier regarding Moses. He was derived, Biblically speaking, from the root of David, and also the fulfillment of the laws of Moses. Much is to be confusing in regards to this, as Jesus regularly "proclaimed the pharisees, religious leaders, etc.. Hypocrites", this sometimes confuses Christians, but the answer is in the Gospels. The disciples asked Him why He said these things and He explained.

[Mr. Neil]

See, you have done the same thing. The only difference is tht I proclaim to be the same "Christian" belief as Big Toe. I am obligated by Jesus to proclaim the teachings and "faith involvement of Jesus" which also includes the OT. Please dont be upset at my "beliefs" as I am not upset with yours. I respect others opinions of of their beliefs, even if I disagree with them.

This shows a gross ignorance of why proponents of evolution "believe" and why they believe it.

 

Science is not a form of faith. Evolution is not simply "believed in" as though Charles Darwin woke up one day and decided, "Hey, things evolve". We don't "believe in" Darwin's theory. We accept it due to the data which confirms the theory to be true.

 

YoYo, don't comment on things such as evolution if you're not going to take the time to learn about them. If you do, then you're going to continue to get confrontational replies to your posts. You clearly have no idea how well established evolution is as a scientific theory.

[white_raven23]

See, you have done the same thing. The only difference is tht I proclaim to be the same "Christian" belief as Big Toe. I am obligated by Jesus to proclaim the teachings and "faith involvement of Jesus" which also includes the OT. Please dont be upset at my "beliefs" as I am not upset with yours. I respect others opinions of of their beliefs, even if I disagree with them. I only ask that the same be taken unto fellow Christians in this "open forum" . I am not preaching, rather I am making a respnse in "postive attitude" to a fellow believer of Christ.

 

No, Yoyo

 

You did not do the same thing. You did indeed "preach". No, not to us. You preached at one of your own when it wasn't warranted.

 

Quote Yoyo-

 

The ultimate result, sadly, is if as a believer in Christ, you are also a believer in the OT, (correct so far?), as a believer in Christ, you are considered a Christian(correct so far?). So then, if you claim to be a believer in Christ, in which is also a believer in the prophecies of Christ even as Christ Himself mentioned in the gospels; you believe that God created this world, as in the Bible. Does this make you a Christian if you dont believe this?Obcourse not, just being misguided.

 

end Quote.

 

 

If you want to respect the belief of "one of your own" then try NOT stabbing her in the back with the bible regarding creationism when all she did was refer to the solar system.

[Abiyoyo]

The author of Genisis id UNKNOWN. Moses is not credited to it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand your objection. This is the "proclaimed" author by the Church, as Im sure you know already. This is the standard in the church.

[white_raven23]

I understand your objection. This is the "proclaimed" author by the Church, as Im sure you know already. This is the standard in the church.

 

 

Nice side-step to the left there Yoyo.

 

Mr Neil and I did not miss it. You're not very sneaky.

 

Typical raving xtian, sidestep the issue that's IN YOUR FACE.

 

[Abiyoyo]

(White raven)If you want to respect the belief of "one of your own" then try NOT stabbing her in the back with the bible regarding creationism when all she did was refer to the solar system.

 

1) I am not a "creationist" as perceived by evolutionists, I simply am a believer in the Word of God. The creationists that "argue", "Never stopping" proclaimers of The proof of the Bible is a whole different breed. I do not scurry around to provide proof of "creation" for the next debate. In any case, maybe I should be considered one who believes in creation, by faith alone, not science. This, if a word existed would probualy be referred to as a non active creationist.

2) Your saying that because I informed ,someone of Christianity, of the Christian Bible teachings, Im a back stabber. I actually consider that more of a support "form" to another Christian, By "our" same Bible that we live by as a Christian. Supporting, not stabbing.

[white_raven23]

1) I am not a "creationist" as perceived by evolutionists, I simply am a believer in the Word of God. The creationists that "argue", "Never stopping" proclaimers of The proof of the Bible is a whole different breed. I do not scurry around to provide proof of "creation" for the next debate. In any case, maybe I should be considered one who believes in creation, by faith alone, not science. This, if a word existed would probualy be referred to as a non active creationist.

 

So....you're not a creationist.....but you are?

 

Perhaps I used the reference incorrectly when I said creationist, I meant anyone who actually believes the world was created in six days (bloody long time for a GOD to get the job done don't you think?) according to Genesis. Not necessarily someone who argues and debates the subject specifically.

 

2) Your saying that because I informed ,someone of Christianity, of the Christian Bible teachings, Im a back stabber. I actually consider that more of a support "form" to another Christian, By "our" same Bible that we live by as a Christian. Supporting, not stabbing.

 

If I belonged to a group of people who all read the same book, and believed in the same book, I would consider it insulting for someone else within the group to quote that book at me, in considerable detail (like you did) as if I'd never read it.

 

Support and drill aren't the same thing.

[Mr. Neil]

1) I am not a "creationist" as perceived by evolutionists, I simply am a believer in the Word of God. The creationists that "argue", "Never stopping" proclaimers of The proof of the Bible is a whole different breed. I do not scurry around to provide proof of "creation" for the next debate. In any case, maybe I should be considered one who believes in creation, by faith alone, not science.

Um, creationists don't "go around providing proof of creation" either. Creationists don't do science. They believe by faith, just like you. The only difference, possibly, is that they pretend that what they do is science.

 

And there's no such thing as an evolutionist. That's a word that creationists invented as a blanket term to identify anyone who rejects biblical literalism in favor of modern scientific theories. Evolution, although one of these theories, only falls into the category of one particular field of science: biology.

 

The term "evolutionist" is misleading, as it carries connotations that don't actually reflect what evolution is all about. Perhaps you should use a more accurate term to describe people who reject the biblical world view in favor of modern science. "Educated" will do.

[Fweethawt]

Hey Neil, thanks for the new quote.

[Guest vanesa]

1) I am not a "creationist" as perceived by evolutionists, I simply am a believer in the Word of God. The creationists that "argue", "Never stopping" proclaimers of The proof of the Bible is a whole different breed. I do not scurry around to provide proof of "creation" for the next debate. In any case, maybe I should be considered one who believes in creation, by faith alone, not science. This, if a word existed would probualy be referred to as a non active creationist.

2) Your saying that because I informed ,someone of Christianity, of the Christian Bible teachings, Im a back stabber. I actually consider that more of a support "form" to another Christian, By "our" same Bible that we live by as a Christian. Supporting, not stabbing.

 

Yes, typical Xtian ranting and whining indeed. Liberal and watered down Xtians don't make good game. I'd love to uproot a couple of real Right wing dings, or better yet, send the whole damn church after me. I'll crush their minds, one after another. Your religion along with all the other fruitcake religions is pathetic, and serve no purpose but to loot and plunder. I'm surprised you even bother coming to this site. Don't even bother going to the TG websites cuz we'll probably throw you out.

[Ouroboros]

Does anyone here take daily baths or showers?

 

Not in the cold climates, or where there is no water.

 

How does this relate to anyone in their "beliefs"?

 

Taking a bath or shower when you read your Bible, would render the book rather wet.

 

At what precept of time did humans begin taking baths or showers if there is no God and the Bible is bogus?

 

If the "assumption" is that people read the Bible and started taking baths/showers, then Does anyone still take baths/showers? If so why?If the Bible says to do this daily, Is it wrong as a non-believer perform daily?

 

In England 100-150 years ago and before that, it was common not to take baths, because of some

reason (I can't remember how the logic was stated) it was not correct by God to do so. I saw

a documentary once about it, and it was funny, the argument was that it was unholy to wash yourself.

So how does that go with xianity beliefs. Beats me!

 

Does anyone here eat raw meat?

 

You can order it at the restaurant as "Steak Tartar".

Don't recommend it for chicken or pork though...

 

How does this relate to anyone in their "beliefs"?

 

Is that related to the big BBQ in Hell we're all going to?

 

At what precept of time did humans begin to "not" eat raw meats if there is no God and the bible is bogus?

 

Probably when humans invented fire.

 

If the "assumption" is that people read the Bible and then started "not" to eat raw meat, then Does anyone still eat meat this way?If so why?If the Bible says to "cook" and "prepare" meat a certain way before consumption, Is it wrong as a non-believer to prepare in this way?

 

Eeeh, yeah, or maybe no, I'm not sure, maybe it's wrong of a believer to non-prepare his

non-believing food when his preparing his, uuh, I'm confused...

[nirrti]

I truly understand your veiw on this matter, especially regarding science and "looking at the beauty". This is a vital role in my relationship with God in Christ, and take it to heart. Though the whole basis of the Christain movement is the Gospels of Christ in his teachings and instructions. Jesus mentioned the fulfillment of the "prophecies of the prophets", in which is the OT. He proclaims as mentiones earlier regarding Moses. He was derived, Biblically speaking, from the root of David, and also the fulfillment of the laws of Moses. Much is to be confusing in regards to this, as Jesus regularly "proclaimed the pharisees, religious leaders, etc.. Hypocrites", this sometimes confuses Christians, but the answer is in the Gospels. The disciples asked Him why He said these things and He explained.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okay, which Gospel? They all differ from each other on essential matters such as the liniage from David to Jesus, which there are two separate ones. There are four different resurrection accounts in each gospel involving another group of witnesses. Jesus says he comes to bring peace in one verse yet in another, he comes to bring the sword. If he truly believed the law was good, why did he break the sabbath, the purity laws and associated with sinners? Either you believe a law is right and of God or you don't. And it seems he didn't even think the laws where from God since he always called them, "the laws of Moses," never the "laws of God". Besides, what is right or wrong supposedly doesn't change according to God but theres an inconsistancy there.

 

If I presented the gospels as proof in a court of law against the defendant, I would lose due to insufficient and contradictory statements, not to mention these documents, which were written at least 100 years after Jesus's death, would make them pure hearsay.

[Fweethawt]

Forget about it Han.

 

You'd have better luck making the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs on a tauntaun than you would trying to make sense out of this thread.

[Ouroboros]

1) I am not a "creationist" as perceived by evolutionists, I simply am a believer in the Word of God.  The creationists that "argue", "Never stopping" proclaimers of The proof of the Bible is a whole different breed. I do not scurry around to provide proof of "creation" for the next debate. In any case, maybe I should be considered one who believes in creation, by faith alone, not science. This, if a word existed would probualy be referred to as a non active creationist.

Aaah, you believe in the creation but you don't believe in creationists.

The evolutionist perceive the creationist as someone that believe the universe was created and can prove it. So you think the universe was created but it can't be proven. That's cool. Tell that to Kansas school board. Then Intelligent Design shouldn't be in the science books after all!

 

2) Your saying that because I informed ,someone of Christianity, of the Christian Bible teachings, Im a back stabber. I actually consider that more of a support "form" to another Christian, By "our" same Bible that we live by as a Christian. Supporting, not stabbing.

Good. Don't read another kind of bible, it could be damaging to your faith.

You could suddenly change your mind... maybe even loose your faith

[Mr. Neil]

Hey Neil, thanks for the new quote.

I had the biggest grin on my face when I typed that.

[Fweethawt]

I had the biggest grin on my face when I typed that.

 

I had the biggest grin on my face when I read it.

[Asimov]

Forget about it Han.

 

You'd have better luck making the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs on a tauntaun than you would trying to make sense out of this thread.

 

The force is strong with this one...

[Fweethawt]

The force is strong with this one...

 

Dude, I grew up on Star Wars. When I was a kid, (even though we couldn't afford the toys) I ate, drank, slept, and fantasized about Star Wars.

[BigToe]

YoYo-

 

No I do not "believe" the world is 6000-10000 years old. I have concluded that it is roughly 4.6 billion years old. How do I do this? Well I've done a bit of studying in astronomy and geology and what do you know- they both point in that direction.

 

Does this mean I don't believe God created the world? No, that isn't what it means. I don't see why the timestamp on the world has any bearing on how it was created. Because quite frankly it doesn't. Evolution doesn't say anything about the existence of God either. See, that's the thing about science- it is completely independent of religion and doesn't really have any bearing on one's theological beliefs.

 

So what does that mean? You got it, I don't believe that every word in the Bible is to be taken as a literal depiction of what happened. Like Jesus's parables were used to explain something "complicated" that many couldn't understand, I believe many stories in the OT were used the same way. Because in ancient cultures they came up with stories to explain things. Look at many ancient cultures- they have similar stories but with differing conclusions. Does that mean only one is correct? No of course not. It means that is how that population explained something.

 

Also, I'm glad you believe God will come back. But to me, that is not the point of my beliefs. That is not what my beliefs are contingent upon. My beliefs go much much deeper than any rewards or punishments I may or may not get.

 

But feel free to think I'm not a Christian. It seems you aren't the only one. So tell me, what is it that you want me to call myself? Since you have all the answers.

[Asimov]

YoYo-

 

No I do not "believe" the world is 6000-10000 years old. I have concluded that it is roughly 4.6 billion years old. How do I do this? Well I've done a bit of studying in astronomy and geology and what do you know- they both point in that direction.

 

Does this mean I don't believe God created the world? No, that isn't what it means. I don't see why the timestamp on the world has any bearing on how it was created. Because quite frankly it doesn't. Evolution doesn't say anything about the existence of God either. See, that's the thing about science- it is completely independent of religion and doesn't really have any bearing on one's theological beliefs.

 

So what does that mean? You got it, I don't believe that every word in the Bible is to be taken as a literal depiction of what happened. Like Jesus's parables were used to explain something "complicated" that many couldn't understand, I believe many stories in the OT were used the same way. Because in ancient cultures they came up with stories to explain things. Look at many ancient cultures- they have similar stories but with differing conclusions. Does that mean only one is correct? No of course not. It means that is how that population explained something.

 

Also, I'm glad you believe God will come back. But to me, that is not the point of my beliefs. That is not what my beliefs are contingent upon. My beliefs go much much deeper than any rewards or punishments I may or may not get.

 

But feel free to think I'm not a Christian. It seems you aren't the only one. So tell me, what is it that you want me to call myself? Since you have all the answers.

 

You tell him/her/it, BigToe!!!