Something that pisses me off.

[Guest Rabbi Dan]

WE don't know you yet. Expecting immediate acceptance is unreasonable.

 

I accept everyone unconditionally. First impressions are crucial and the first impression I got of you on your first post had a tinge of anti-Semitism. Your reason for being pissed off.

 

Who else backpedaled? I never backpedaled. I clarified my points.

I never backpedaled either...I clarified my points as well.

People who've known me for a while know I can fly off at the mouth sometimes and say things in a way that is less than helpful' date=' when I acknowledge this I change my wording. [/quote'] Then you need to think about what you say before you post. Are we not both guilty of the same thing?

 

The people here know what kind of person I am. They know my character' date=' they know my sincerity. ALSO I never said anything about anyone's race, but from the beginning of this thread to the end, even though I may have not used the best words for some of it...have spoken only about RELIGION. You didn't. Who is in charge of the world bank, who has power in media etc. etc. has nothing to do with religious precepts.[/quote'] I'm beginning to understand your kind of character and sincerity.

 

I was judging a religion not a race of people.

So it's OK to judge their religion but not ok to mention their involvement in Finance, media, and politics. I get it now...I'll remember to comment only on religion and leave the rest of my opinions out. Thanks for the heads up. I'm new to the posting rules.

 

Rabbi Dan

[a midnight star]

Ok, I am NOT saying that the anglo-saxon race is an offshoot of the "arian" race. What I am saying is that the third reich (sp?) was pro anglo and anti jew. He hated that which was in himself. He hated his jewish past and hated his mother, who was a jew.

 

I love "bewitched". I wish I could have been in Salem when they unwrapped the statue of Samantha.

 

***But his main hatred was against the Jews, that is clear from his book and his speeches.*****

 

agreed. BUt my question is: If Germany was full of blacks instead of jews, would he hate the blacks instead? Or wouldn't the persecution of blacks superseed the jews just by the simple numbers of them? I don't think so, but since there is no way to prove it it is just a theory.

 

***The enemy of my enemy is my friend?***

 

Well yes. Christians are seen as upstarts and heretic and a bigger threat to their religion than the pagan religions. The only one that they hate more is the muslims.

[Ouroboros]

Ok, I am NOT saying that the anglo-saxon race is an offshoot of the "arian" race. What I am saying is that the third reich (sp?) was pro anglo and anti jew. He hated that which was in himself. He hated his jewish past and hated his mother, who was a jew.

 

I love "bewitched". I wish I could have been in Salem when they unwrapped the statue of Samantha.

 

***But his main hatred was against the Jews, that is clear from his book and his speeches.*****

 

agreed. BUt my question is: If Germany was full of blacks instead of jews, would he hate the blacks instead? Or wouldn't the persecution of blacks superseed the jews just by the simple numbers of them? I don't think so, but since there is no way to prove it it is just a theory.

Sure, it could have been possible. The blame is not on Hitler either, since he founded a lot of his ideas from other racist authors.

 

The protocols of the elders of Zion, for instance is one of the origins for the racist urban legends you hear about Jews today.

 

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a forgery made in Russia for the Okhrana (secret police), which blames the Jews for the country's ills. It was first privately printed in 1897 and was made public in 1905. It is copied from a nineteenth century novel by Hermann Goedsche (Biarritz, 1868) and claims that a secret Jewish cabal is plotting to take over the world.

 

http://skepdic.com/protocols.html

 

It outlines the idea that Jews have a secret society to overtake the control over the world. Does it sound familiar?

 

The book is a total hoax and a lie, and its sole purpose was to discredit the Jews.

But the lie won't die.

[-Demona-]

Ok, I am NOT saying that the anglo-saxon race is an offshoot of the "arian" race. What I am saying is that the third reich (sp?) was pro anglo and anti jew. He hated that which was in himself. He hated his jewish past and hated his mother, who was a jew.

 

Actually, it was his father who was a Jew (and an abusive alcoholic, as well). His mother, who was a blonde haired and blue eyed Anglo-Saxon, died when he was younger.

[Ouroboros]

From the book, Protocol #8

2. We shall surround our government with a whole world of economists. That is the reason why economic sciences form the principal subject of the teaching given to the Jews. Around us again will be a whole constellation of bankers, industrialists, capitalists and - THE MAIN THING - MILLIONAIRES, BECAUSE IN SUBSTANCE EVERYTHING WILL BE SETTLED BY THE QUESTION OF FIGURES.

That does sound very familiar. And if it was true, why haven't they succeeded after 150 years of plotting and working on this plan? And why are the richest people not Jewish according to true statistics? Did they fail the plot or was the story of the plot false?

 

*edit*

 

oh, good source of the history of the book:

 

http://www.holocaust-history.org/short-ess...protocols.shtml

[Ouroboros]

Actually, it was his father who was a Jew (and an abusive alcoholic, as well). His mother, who was a blonde haired and blue eyed Anglo-Saxon, died when he was younger.

Quarter Jew, his fathers-father, not in wedlock. (Allegedly)

 

http://www.maebrussell.com/About%20Mae%20B...f%20Hitler.html

As a result of this investigation a secret document was prepared that proved that Maria Anna Schicklgruber was living in Vienna at the time she conceived. At that time she was employed as a servant in the home of Baron Rothschild. As soon as the family discovered her pregnancy she was sent back to her home in Spital where Alois was born. If it is true that one of the Rothschilds is the real father of Alois Hitler, it would make Adolf a quarter Jew.

 

Family tree:

http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/nhitanc.htm

[Ouroboros]

I think Hitler reacted to Jews the same way as Mohammed reacted to Christians and Jews.

 

They got pissed of by some few, and then they blamed the whole population. Broad strokes of the brush. "One hurt me, I kill them all." mentality.

 

Some people don't understand there are good and bad people in every culture and "race" (I hate to use that term btw). We're only one race: Humans. There are no sub-species in the family tree of Homo Sapiens.

[dogmatically_challenged]

From the book, Protocol #8

 

That does sound very familiar. And if it was true, why haven't they succeeded after 150 years of plotting and working on this plan? And why are the richest people not Jewish according to true statistics? Did they fail the plot or was the story of the plot false?

 

*edit*

 

oh, good source of the history of the book:

 

http://www.holocaust-history.org/short-ess...protocols.shtml

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And if it was true, why haven't they succeeded after 150 years of plotting and working on this plan? And why are the richest people not Jewish according to true statistics? Did they fail the plot or was the story of the plot false?

 

Because those rotten atheists foiled thier plans and took over with the help of satan!!!11

 

A one world government inspired by atheists replaced the plans of the jews. Soon everyone will have the mark of the beast!

 

Atheists are an insidious eeeeevvvvviiiiiilllll!!!!!!!!1111

[a midnight star]

OK, I am a big girl and can admit when I am wrong. I was wrong. There is speculation that his father was part jew as he MIGHT have been illegitamate (sp). There is also speculation that he hated jews because of his mother's DR. BUt this is all speculation. Here is something interesting I found:

 

 

"For, to be sure, they had not looked like that in Linz. I observed the man furtively and cautiously, but the longer I stared at this foreign face, scrutinizing feature for feature, the more my first question assumed a new form: is this a German?"

To answer his own question, he immersed himself in anti-Semitic literature. Then he went out and studied Jews as they passed by.

"...the more I saw, the more sharply they became distinguished in my eyes from the rest of humanity..."

"For me this was the time of the greatest spiritual upheaval I have ever had to go through. I had ceased to be a weak-kneed cosmopolitan and become an anti-Semite."

 

http://www.bofhlet.net/tasteless/13/homeless.htm

[Ouroboros]

To me it shows a person that had a mental condition, and got so obsessed with the Jews until it became a sickness. Maybe it was a kind of obsessive compulsive, he got hooked on an idea and couldn't let go?

[dogmatically_challenged]

For those curious...I'm anti-organized religion.  I'm not anti-spirituality.  I'm not anti-thinking for yourself.  You can be spiritual and think for yourself. You can be an independent freethinker and not end up an atheist.  Although I don't believe in literal anthropomorphic deities i think "atheist" would be the wrong label for me, if I were to have one. Technically you can be a member of an organized religion and think for yourself but it's a hell of a lot harder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know how to disprove that a real Creator exists. I have no evidences of a god and don't believe in any. I could be labeled an agnostic , but just plain atheist really does it for me. AAATHEEEIIIST. The word is so sexy to me!

[a midnight star]

An extreme version of a stalker?

[Ouroboros]

Well said.

 

I can see that extremist Judaism can turn to become something we don't want, the same way as extremist Islam has become. And I fear that in a near future, there might be extremist Christians too, and we're going to have a hell of a ride in the world.

 

People with liberal views of their religion rarely cause much harm, at least not much physical harm, but unfortunately they can prepare the place where the extremist fundamentalist movements starts.

[Amethyst]

There has been a couple of those, Ishtar and Diana etc. And they had really interesting cermonies... We should bring it back!

 

Well, there are the Wiccans and Neo-Pagans.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I read her husbands post. Freethinking Deist/Agnostic/Atheist are an entirely different animal. Parts of his post is irelevant in light of this fact. To hold what has been done to jews against us, ( people who were not even alive or ever even done or witnessed antisemitism), is reminiscent of the sons paying for the sins of the fathers. Superstitious reasonings or just plain fallacious if not superstitious. I am a different demographic than my parents, or thier parents. Same goes for most of us here. Most threads are decicated soley for criticizing xianity. And criticizing judaism by itself is totaly ontopic in this thread.

 

We have the right to question anything and have the memes and notions that are rattling around in our skull caps to be tested through the imput of others. To say jews are off limits is special pleading. He just posted and ran. How can we question him further? Learn?

 

Once is enough? Yea once is enough, but it would be nice to have an ongoing discussion with an actual jewish man on these issues. Once is enough tactic is not slapping down ignorance. Answering questions is a better solution. Junk in our heads? Do tell and while your at it let us question more for further clarification. He has no idea what freethought is. We are a diferent demographic and his points don't all take that into account as far as I can see. He talks of the paterns of common gentiles and not of freethinkers. Heathens can be wrong but we are pretty cool people most of us.

 

To hold everyone in the thread, as well as the whole website to be responsible for a few people is very strange indeed. He gave an explanation of his and Pitchus reaction but not a reason to just leave while holding the whole website responsible for a few others. There will never be a safe place for anyone in freethinking forums. Never. Get real. Freethinkers try to be in the habit of being open minded and to change thier minds when given confidence to do so through logic and evidence. If this is not really so, then lets make it so. A goal to reach for.

 

Rabbi Dan it seems, so far, very common in heart and mind. Just like many I see in R.T. He don't count in this case as a freethinking truth seeker if we consider his first two posts in this thread. I hope he shows some growth by breaking down his own posts and points out what he regrets in those first two posts and why. No human being has to be stuck. People can grow and be forgiven....or not.

 

There are no sacred cows. Sorry Judaism. Sorry world.

 

People ( me too) need to learn how to talk about sensitive issues with out making a fist or flying off the handle. Otherwise problems do not get solved. Sweeping memes or unfounded beliefs of things under the rug is not an exercise in teaching/learning. It is anti-learning. No issue should be off limits. Ever.

 

I refuse to own what my grandparents did. What my ancestors did unless I hold thier foolishnes as my beliefs. All peoples have an impact on eachother in this world so no subject is off limits.

[Ouroboros]

Why did the awful things happen in Germany under Hitler? There were many reasons, how the racism had built up over the years, economy crashed etc. But one thing that was happening that no one ever talks about is that issues were brougth up. When Hitler wrote his book and when he started his career, speaking his racist dogma, no one in the whole world said anything. No one spoke against him. No one raised their voice and told him to shut up and get out.

 

That's why I believe in free speech as well as the freedom to talk about taboo stuff. I think that even when we don't agree, we should be able to talk, and be able to disagree. RabbiDan had a right to say what he wanted, and I had the right to counter what he said. And Zoe had the right to say what she did, as well as Pitchu's husband. This is core to learning and development. Interaction. Even when issues are "dangerous" and even when some have a view that is not agreed upon, sharing and learning is key.

 

And on, and on, and on I go ... I better shut up right now...

 

(this was not to counter your post DC, just to turn on the 1000 Watt lightbulb on the importance of discussion)

[dogmatically_challenged]

no one in the whole world said anything. No one spoke against him. No one raised their voice and told him to shut up and get out.

 

Freehought is the antidote. I totaly agree Hans. Totaly.

[dogmatically_challenged]

(this was not to counter your post DC, just to turn on the 1000 Watt lightbulb on the importance of discussion)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Truthfuly I agree with everything in your post here Hans. Thanks. We all might get flamed. hehe.

[dogmatically_challenged]

True.  How the hell will we ever know who is "right" about an issue if everyone is afraid to talk about it.  Yeah things get said wrong, feelings get hurt when we see our own view and can't look past to other people's  perspectives, but eventually if we are all patient we all muddle through.

 

Sometimes fences can't be mended with individual people, but the overall personal growth helps keep other fences from being broken down later. I learned a hell of a lot about myself both positive and negative which I wouldn't have learned without this thread.

 

I could have said it in a nicer way initially but if I had I might not have been able to figure out what it was that I was truly upset about...and I might not have reached the insights I reached.  I regret that it hurt some people in the process, but I don't regret that it happened.  Because I could have gone through a lot longer with a stick up my ass being totally clueless about what my real issues were.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This explains a lot and I can relate.

 

(Plus we will never be able to show that every religion on the planet are all utter horsehit if we can't criticize all religions holybooks. OOPs111!!!111 did I type that out loud? hehe!)

[Ouroboros]

no one in the whole world said anything. No one spoke against him. No one raised their voice and told him to shut up and get out.

 

Freehought is the antidote. I totaly agree Hans. Totaly.

Ouch. My ears hurt!

[Ouroboros]

You read through your ears? 

Hehe!

 

It's my spiritual ears...

 

If UPPERCASE is shouting, then reading it must hurt the ears,

 

Eeeh, forget it, it's getting too late for oldies like me. 1:23 AM, that's a bit after my bedtime.

[crazy-tiger]

I can see that extremist Judaism can turn to become something we don't want, the same way as extremist Islam has become. And I fear that in a near future, there might be extremist Christians too, and we're going to have a hell of a ride in the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Might be?

 

I thought we already had them...

[Checkmate]

To Zoe Grace, Han Solo and Dogmatically Challenged, I just have to say:

 

 

You people rock! Those last few posts really hit the spot. Thanks for speaking the truth.

[Ouroboros]

Might be?

 

I thought we already had them...

Well, I meant the full blown suicide killers, there has been a very few Christian suicide bombers, but with the increasing threat and hatred between the different cultures and religions, it's just a matter of time before some groups of Christians establish extreme cult factions with the sole intent to kill people by terrorism in middle east. There will be some that says "Look, the Muslims are so strong in their belief that they are willing to die for it, are we?" and so on. I'm afraid we haven't seen the end of this war; the war in Iraq was just the beginning, we're heading for a massive conflict. With the war in Iraq, it was sealed that diplomacy was yesterdays news, and only combat was the solution. You don't just turn of the hatred people feel for us now over there.

 

And I can see this could happen with Israel and the Jewish people too. They always get blamed for every conflict or disease in the world. The stock market crashes, blame the Jews, the twin towers are brought down by terrorists, blame the Jews, it just goes on and one. And see what the reaction was, Pitchu gave up, she couldn't take it anymore. Sadness and unfairness took the better out of her. But look at the people in Israel that lives it everyday on the streets. Eventually they will have extremist groups (don't they have one at least already?) that will go for the suicide bombings too.

 

Damn! We will have a worldwide epidemic of terrorist unless we start explaining the danger to people.

 

I prefer liberal Christians, liberal Jews and liberal Muslims over the extremists. Just so we can have some peace!

 

Peace Plz!

[crazy-tiger]

Peace Plz!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't have that...

 

 

They need all this violence to show everyone it's the End Times