Ouroboros Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I find it telling that SBF has chosen to only respond to one person for whom he has an excuse not to respond to. Others have given responses to SBF too. of course, I am female, so maybe not worthy of response, since women are supposed to be silent little mouses and defer to the wisdom of the male gender. I'm not going to bother posting anything to that guy anymore. He was rude to me claiming that I was never a real Christian. That hurt a lot, and he think I should lie down and play nice little pet, because he consider himself the supreme electorate from a non existing god preaching a gospel of lies. And to have the stomach to come to this website and requesting me to excuse my language just because he's biological clock says 70 years, while his educational and mental age is barely 9! He has no right to demand a change of culture here, since it is not his site. And also his own holy book commands him to become a Greek to the Greeks and a Roman to the Romans, which he refused to do. He’s disobedient to his own Faith, and he proves by his actions that he is not a true Christian, but only a Christian by convenience and egotistical emotional greed. He has no frigging knowledge how old I am, so how can he demand respect from me to him? Or what I've gone through, so how can he tell what and how I became who I am? He doesn't deserve any excuse from me, until he can own up to his insults to me and beg of forgiveness, then I might in my righteousness grant him grace and give the forgiveness he requests, but doesn’t deserve. Until then, he will remain in my ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I'm not going to bother posting anything to that guy anymore. He was rude to me claiming that I was never a real Christian. That hurt a lot, and he think I should lie down and play nice little pet, because he consider himself the supreme electorate from a non existing god preaching a gospel of lies. And to have the stomach to come to this website and requesting me to excuse my language just because he's biological clock says 70 years <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I will say one thing... Anyone who demands respect simply due to their age ends up with no respect at all. If they want respect, they have to earn it... just like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 [sBF] Being cut off could mean one of two things: 1) The "branch" that is cut off is not a true believer, 2) the branch is a useless Christian. But notice that Jesus said, "any branch IN ME that doesn't produce fruit is cut off." A non-believer CANNOT possibly be IN CHRIST. So if the doctrine of eternal security is true, then the cut off branches are useless, fruitless, Christians. This doesn't mean that they never produced any fruit, but that their lifestyle is such that they are in the non-production mode. If the branch NEVER produced ANY fruit, then the only reasonable conclusion is that he was never a Christian. True believers WILL produce at least some fruit during their lives. It could also mean that God will bring home a Christian who is not producing fruit and an encouragement to get back into union with Christ; become a "sap-sucking branch" :-) Abiding in Christ through his word and obeying his commandments is the key. Where Jesus says in 15:6 that anyone who does not abide in him will be "thrown away," is not saying that he is now lost. The Christian who does not abide in Christ cannot do what is pleasing to God, for apart from him he can do nothing (15:5). Therefore, what works he does have will be burned up at the judgment seat (1 Cor. 3:11-15) and he will suffer loss of reward, but he himself will be saved. Again, why do you insist on arguing this point before you establish scripture as anything more than a fairy tale? Of course we were never saved. There was nothing to be saved from. We walked away because there is no such thing as a true christian. For there to be a true christian there would have to have been a true christ who was truly god's son. This just isn't the case. Therefore you could potentially walk away to. If the question is sincerity then yes, we were as sincere or moreso than you. If the question is an organic life change through an indwelling of the holy ghost through belief in the gospel or however you want to spell it out, such an animal just does not exist. Until you adress this point you are going to find yourself very frustrated on this board. We just don't care about the verses you are spending time posting here. I've read them so many times before I just skip through your posts when I see you quoting verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Yeah, they claim all women are evil if they wear makeup or jeans (like the vast majority of women in the 21st century do), claim that everyone is going to hell for taking aspiring and drinking coffee because those count as drugs...oh, and let's Are you sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Well, I guess there's not much point in responding if you think the Bible is a myth. If you would like scriptural evidence why it isn't, then I would be happy to respond. How can you prove that a myth is not a myth by using only said myth as proof? Does not compute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Are you sure about that? Well, they did at my college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 Fourth Option: Because Jesus did not fulfill messianic requirements in full, the entire NT can be chunked and disregard. According the test of true prophet in Deuteronomy one doesn't have to fear any of a false prophets message at all. [sBF] I'm trying to remember something. Have you said that you really were a Christian and now aren't, or have you said that you never were? I seem to recall the latter. Anyway, if you were, but you're not anymore, did you believe that Isa. 53 and Psalm 22 were Messianic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 did you believe that Isa. 53 and Psalm 22 were Messianic? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was once, now I'm not... Isaiah 53 is talking about Israel. If anyone thinks that's Messanic, they need a serious reality check. (and I knew that when I was 8... Yep, even a child knew what it was about) Psalm 22 is about David. Unless you want to believe that David was also the Messiah, there's no way it could be Messanic... Do you believe they are Messanic? If so, why do you believe something in direct contradiction to the Bible? If not, why are you bothering to ask...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 This is the second time I have seen SBF say this to someone. I think he sincerely believes that none here were christians. First he said that to Bob and not to Thankful. That kind of thinking seriously annoys me. I was born and raised Lutheran, and even was forced to attend a Lutheran elementary school up until 6th grade. I begged to be allowed to go to a public school because I was being bullied constantly and the teachers never did anything to stop it (keep in mind it was a Christian school). Anyone who knew me when I was a kid would be totally surprised to learn that I don't believe now. I was the good little girl who kept her mouth shut (usually because I was reading something) and always did what she was told. I believed up until my college years, even when my mom died from cancer. I have posted my anti- testimony somewhere on the main page, but it's probably from a year ago so you won't find it that easily. Really, if you people would read the anti-testimonies, you would not make assumptions like that. We are human beings who once belonged to a religion, and now we no longer believe it for various reasons. Ask anyone who's ever left a cult of any kind for any reasons if they ever truly believed what the cult said, and they will tell you yes, at first they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I wonder what would happen if SBF would go to my former Church and tell them all they are no true Christians. It would be really interesting. He had to convince several thousands of people that all their studies in the Bible is all wrong, because SBF is sent by God to tell them the truth. The bible says Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. This I did. I really believed Jesus was alive and was the son of God. I was willing to die for Jesus, that's how convinced I was the Jesus existed. I confessed it anywhere I went. I witnessed in train stations, hotels, airports, cities, went on mission trips, so yes I confessed alright. I got baptized, never swore in my whole life, and loved every human being (even the ones that everyone hated), did good things. I spoke in tongues, prayed for the sick, threw out demons (what I thought was demons at the time). During the time I was Christian, I truly believe Jesus existed and was alive, and that God existed and Jesus was his only son. Also I believed the Holy Spirit was anointing and guiding me on a daily basis, so I read the Bible every day and prayed every day to listen to God’s voice through the Holy Spirit. It all went on until the day when I finally realized that the subconscious makes up all these things. It’s not God talking to you, but you subconscious mind making up stuff and you think it’s some supernatural connection, while it’s not. All those years I was so convinced Jesus was God son, and now I not. If I wasn’t Christian during that time and God exists, then God is a decieveful God, for fooling me like that by letting me walk for 30 years in honest belief and he never once made sure I was a true Christian. So if God exists and I wasn’t a Christian, then God is guilty of deception and fraud and I’m off the hook. Or the alternative is that God doesn’t exist, and whole Christianity, 100%, is just a fiction and a fantasy. Then I wonder which way it is? Is the answer Evil God or No God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 How can you prove that a myth is not a myth by using only said myth as proof? Does not compute. [sBF] May I accept that as your opinion? I have seen how this "myth" has turned people's lives around and give them a hope they never knew existed. It'll do the same for you if you let it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 This is the second time I have seen SBF say this to someone. I think he sincerely believes that none here were christians. First he said that to Bob and not to Thankful. When I went back to Christianity for a time, the old Baptist pastor there reminded me of SBF. I told him that I had been a Christian for 23 years, and then I had left Christianity. The first thing out of his mouth was, "you probably weren't a real Christian." Which meant he considered me a baby christian. Then he found out how Biblically knowledgable I was and was actually quite impressed with how much I knew about Christianity. [sBF]Knowledge doesn't make anyone a Christian, I'm sure you realize that. That must have caused quite a bit of cognitive dissociation. Later his daughter in law, other pastor's wife, was quite dismayed to find out that I knew a bit too much when she dropped by to talk me into coming back to church. [sBF] Please don't tell me that what you knew made you a Christian. SBF, the title of this website is EX-Christians, so more often than not, everyone here was a Christian at some point in their lives. Thankful, is one of our members who fell into the "very devout" category. If she wasn't a Christian, then I don't think there is one Christian woman I have met in my entire life who is one. [sBF] Yes, I have had lengthy discussions with her and others why I don't believe it is possible to lose one's Christianity. May I ask for your understanding of Rom. 8:28-30? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 The Jews never have associatied any Psalms as Messianic Prophecies, that is something that Christianity did on it's own. [sBF] Why do you suppose Isaiah and Jesus said, "You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; and you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive. For the heart of this people has become dull, and with their ears they scarcely hear, and they have closed their eyes lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart and return, and I should heal them." (Matt. 13:14,15) Regardless, I started a thread about Messianic Requirements, here is the link. You can read my views there if you choose. http://www.ex-christian .net/index.php?showtopic=2548 The NT "Messiah" fails the Deuteronomy requirements for true prophet regardless, [sBF] Did Jesus lie when he said he was the Messiah? (John 4:25,26) so even if Jesus were real, he failed to complete the prophecies that were meant to be Messianic. [sBF] What is your understanding of Psalm 16:10 and 22:16-18? If you take time to read the thread I gave, you'll see why I believe the way that I do concerning the Messiah. [sBF] I don't doubt your sincerity, but I think when we dig into these scriptures, and others, we can see that Jesus did in fact fulfill them. Anyway, please share your understanding of the above. Perhaps we can get to Isaiah later. I have some thougths no addressed in your views above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 I was once, now I'm not... Isaiah 53 is talking about Israel. [sBF] Who was the rich man and where is his grave that Israel was assigned to? (Isa. 53:9) How did Israel "sprinkle"(heb. nazah) many nations. (Isa. 52:15) If anyone thinks that's Messanic, they need a serious reality check. (and I knew that when I was 8... Yep, even a child knew what it was about) Psalm 22 is about David. Unless you want to believe that David was also the Messiah, there's no way it could be Messanic... Do you believe they are Messanic? If so, why do you believe something in direct contradiction to the Bible? [sBF] Were David's feet pierced? Who cast lots for David's clothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 How can you prove that a myth is not a myth by using only said myth as proof? Does not compute. [sBF] May I accept that as your opinion? I have seen how this "myth" has turned people's lives around and give them a hope they never knew existed. It'll do the same for you if you let it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Reality check: I already "let it" and it didn't, in fact, turn my life around. I've seen how islam has offered the same kind of "hope they never knew existed" to some people. Does that make Allah the one true God and Muhammad his prophet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Again, why do you insist on arguing this point before you establish scripture as anything more than a fairy tale? [sBF] Can you imagine of the untold billions of us over the centuries who have been snookered by this fairy tale? We poor suckers, believing something as foolish as someone dying for their sins so they could have eternal life. I mean, isn't that the height swallowing hook, line and sinker. Aren't you glad that you are among the few who were fortunate enough to see the light :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [sBF] Can you imagine of the untold billions of us over the centuries who have been snookered by this fairy tale? We poor suckers, believing something as foolish as someone dying for their sins so they could have eternal life. I mean, isn't that the height swallowing hook, line and sinker. Aren't you glad that you are among the few who were fortunate enough to see the light :-) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Despite your sarcasm, yes, this is exactly the point. You poor poor suckers. I hope being enthralled to this religion doesn't end up harming you in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Reality check: I already "let it" and it didn't, in fact, turn my life around. I've seen how islam has offered the same kind of "hope they never knew existed" to some people. Does that make Allah the one true God and Muhammad his prophet? [sBF] Only one of two possibilites: Either you never belonged to Christ (Rom. 8:9), or you are terribly back-slidden. The Bible is clear that there are Christians who produce very little fruit and are cut off from the victorious, fruitful life in Christ. They will be saved, but won' t have much to show Christ at the judgment seat (1 Cor. 3:12-15). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 SBF, you never answered Cerise's question. To wit: I've seen how islam has offered the same kind of "hope they never knew existed" to some people. Does that make Allah the one true God and Muhammad his prophet? Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Despite your sarcasm, yes, this is exactly the point. You poor poor suckers. I hope being enthralled to this religion doesn't end up harming you in the long run. [sBF] Thanks for thinking of my welfare :-) Call is sarcasm, but that's how you must look at it. If it harms me, it will harm all who thought they were saved. Imagine, when we die, we don't go this wonderful place called heaven. Talk about an incredible disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savedbyfaith Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 SBF, you never answered Cerise's question. To wit: Well? [sBF] Allah is not the one true God, because he does not have a Son :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 (SBF)Can you imagine of the untold billions of us over the centuries who have been snookered by this fairy tale? We poor suckers, believing something as foolish as someone dying for their sins so they could have eternal life. I mean, isn't that the height swallowing hook, line and sinker. Aren't you glad that you are among the few who were fortunate enough to see the light :-) Well, you would be no different than the other people all throughout history who have been "snookered" by fairy tales. Many religions have come and gone, many others still exist. Were untold generations of Romans and Greeks "snookered" by believing in their various gods and goddesses. Were the Egyptians "snookered" by Osiris and Horus. Are the Hindus "snookered" by their beliefs? And what about the Catholics, look how many of them believe, are they "snookered" too? From my experience, Christains love to quote figures of how many "christians" there are worldwide when they want a proof for the validity of their belief. Then they will claim that most of those christians are "false" christians or don't really believe, when you get into theology debates. So numbers mean nothing. If numbers meant something, then by your own figure, Christianity was NOT valid in the 1st century when it was a few followers in an upper room. They neither had the numbers nor the history to back them up. Yeah, so true. They say "Christians is in majority, therefore it's true", next they say "All of them are false Christians, but not me, because I'm God's Chosen One". The strong ego and selfcentered attitude is a free gift when you get "born again". Ignorance and arrogance is the fruit of the religion, not respect and tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 [[sBF] Yes, I have had lengthy discussions with her and others why I don't believe it is possible to lose one's Christianity. May I ask for your understanding of Rom. 8:28-30? Thanks Why do you keep ignoring my response to this. If we don't accept the bible as an authority, how can it matter what Romans or any other book says? First you need to establish why the book is an authority, then we can go from there. Otherwise you are just barking at the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 SBF, You seem to still be stuck in "one or the other" mode in regards to statements from the bible. I know you are being asked to respond to several different arguments at the same time, but I still see in your other responses this mind set. Could you please explain to me why other possiblities aren't just as valid? (ie not just "it's true or he lied") My personal take on the bible should anyone care... Personally, I believe there very well may have been a rabbi in the first century named yeshua. However, that is about as far as I'm willing to go. In my opinion, many of the statments attributed to him have been either misinterpreted or added after the fact to make all of the disparate christian stories more cohesive when combined into todays cannons. Now I'm sure you disagree w/this, but other than a feeling you have, why wouldn't this senario be just as valid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Savedbyfear: What is your opinion of Mormonism? Legitimate God-inspired faith or not? If you say not - then what would you call Joseph Smith's account? Myth? Fairy-tale? Self-delusion? Satanic deception? Now, if you like, I'll present you with a huge list of people who have had their lives changed and left their sinful pasts behind via Mormonism. And - POOF! Your argument is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts