Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings: 1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful? 2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings? 3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation? 4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules? I'd say the OP runs off the rails right at the start with the notion that God "had to" do anything. Hey, you are being a wee bit feisty, you're one of the peaceable lions, I had thought about giving you the nickname Asland. God is a social and loving being, He created us to love and be loved by Him. And if you don't love him you die. See evilbible.com for details. Don't quote evilbible, dude, that site is for the monumentally ignorant and I didn't think you were in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings: 1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful? 2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings? 3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation? 4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules? I would create them so they would know my love and teach them to love each other and love them even when they got it wrong and I would never give up on them because that would then be my failure...Hey Wait!! Thats how I treat my kids!! It's too bad Christians cant understand that! That's how Jesus is too, He even gave His life for His kids. You didn't do that cuz you're on here typing and ghosts don't exist and the dead can't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 And.... a real God would love us and not be so obssessed with whether we loved him back and, when we mess up he would grieve that we hurt each other not be outraged that we :disobeyed" him...sadly the Xian created "God" is an abusive, power mad, jackass just like so many millions of fundy parents.. it is also sad that you, Mr Authentic dude, do not see the pathology in your own view of God... Us loving Him helps us be the best that we can be. People hurt me recently and it's my love and obedience to God that stopped me from possibly making the situation worse. God vindicated me waaay better than I would have been able to do myself and He knew that the people who hurt me had hard hearts so had I tried to speak to them, it would have been of no avail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 And.... a real God would love us and not be so obssessed with whether we loved him back and, when we mess up he would grieve that we hurt each other not be outraged that we :disobeyed" him...sadly the Xian created "God" is an abusive, power mad, jackass just like so many millions of fundy parents.. it is also sad that you, Mr Authentic dude, do not see the pathology in your own view of God... Us loving Him helps us be the best that we can be. People hurt me recently and it's my love and obedience to God that stopped me from possibly making the situation worse. God vindicated me waaay better than I would have been able to do myself and He knew that the people who hurt me had hard hearts so had I tried to speak to them, it would have been of no avail. Only a Christian would use a word like "vindicated" lol. If in fact you didn't make the situation worse, it was due to your good judgment. Not God doing this or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 If I could +1 this, I would All you have to do is click on the green arrow just underneath the post. Unless the feature is only available to ex-Christians. I don't know how the board would appear to an Authentic Christian Believer, or if that feature is disabled, or not. I didn't see the sex and Christianity subsection until I had made my 25th post. The edit feature also only appeared after that as well. Edited to add. I've just remembered that I also couldn't give out reputation points until the ex-christians unite symbol appeared under my username either. Heeeey! Long time no see! Um, you had put your year of birth as 1901 or something like that, so I thought maybe since you are waaay past your three score and ten you ran out of blessings. Glad to know that's not the reason for you MIA. Yeah, one gotta join the dark side to give rep points Sorry you are very anxious about hell *hugs* Trust me the year of birth is wrong by quite a huge margin. I lied about my age. However, I have to agree with the responses given to you by my fellow non-Christians on here. It's not a case of joining the dark side. I fought like hell for many years not to find myself in the position I am now. I came to this board as a Christian 5 years ago, but after looking at the evidence presented on here and elsewhere. I ended up an apostate like the others on here. It's not quite what I had in mind 5 years ago, but I had to go where the evidence led me. "I lied about my age." Well I kinda figured that from the get-go lol. Yeah , I realized the misunderstandings people on here have and I realize it is painful to lose a belief that gave comfort and hope (or was supposed to). The evidence is there but there are also many vain philosophies trying to counteract it. The faith factor does play a part too, God does manifest Himself (it's hard to explain, that's why one has to "taste" for themself) to those who obey Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks for the advice BAA. Even though this was my first (I think it was first) reply to her I am very familiar with her modus operandi thanks to you and other members who actually started threads about her methods/personality/et.al. Her calling me one of the 'new' ones around here showed, once more, her shallowness - she didn't take any time checking me out before spouting nonsense. And naturally, I don't expect any reply back from her. I'm just sick and tired the way people like her come over here and subtlely(in their minds anyway) quote from the magical book of myths to us and think we're going to fall into any of their traps. They have as much contempt for us as many of us do for them with the difference being that we've walked their path and found it to be total bs. They seem to forget this very important fact. I mean, the freaking site is called EX-christian.net for krissakes! What don't they get? Dude, don't pay attention to BAA's nuttiness. Did you EVER address me before? You are new in that sense. I find you guys interesting and many to be likeable, there's no contempt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings: 1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful? 2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings? 3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation? 4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules? Fun 1. More powerful 2. Complete free will 3. Not (would contradict with free will) 4. None (would contradict with free will) 1. More powerful ---- Can't happen, they need to be self existent. 2. Complete free will ---- You mean complete autonomy and not just a freedom to choose to obey or not, right? 3. Not (would contradict with free will) ---- You won't mind mayhem occurring? (Yeah, I know Mayhem is cute but ...) 4. None (would contradict with free will) --- So total anarchy for you? 1. Something does not need to be self existent to be more powerfull (that is if self existent even exists). Humans are capable of creating things more powerfull then themselfs. 2. Nope i mean free will... to do what ever they want, wish includes breaking all laws (gravity, phisics etc). Same free will humans have right now. 3. Not at all, freedom is worth it.. and a god who would realy love its creation would agree. 4. Yep, still beats hell if you ask me. 1. In the mortal sphere that is true but if a being is inherently immortal, does not have derived life, then ANY created being cannot equal or surpass it. That only happens in myths like Greek mythologies. 2. Created beings cannot have COMPLETE autonomy as they are not all knowing and they have the ability to hurt other creatures. God does not let sin and evil go unchecked, He steps in sometimes to curb it. Glad you ain't God, bro, otherwise under your rulership this planet will go kablooey. My bible says God will destroy those who destroy the earth, that means He has RULES! When a person breaks them there will be consequences. 3. Would you actually want this planet or the universe to be run like the the Okay Corral? To have what evolution actually suggests, 'survival of the fittest'? My cousin got shot this year and I had another one that got shot the year before, they survived but MANY others don't. Every year they start by counting how many murders for 2011, 2012, 2013. The people tend to LOVE revelry and some up the ante by getting pleasure in killing others (too much dang TV and video games and no God or even good principles as the civil government is failing). The police are completely crappy so many violent people get away with their crimes until another more violent person gets them and when they can't get them they kill their relatives or spouses or lovers. I know your way sucks from an intellectual perspective and from personal experiences. People were slandering me recently and in civil society they did not break any rules but in God's Holy court they are guilty. 4. Have you seen hell or been there? Do you understand what it will entail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thumbelina, I have a challenge for you. Suppose you are God. What benefit do you derive from a creation that has free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thumbelina, I have a challenge for you. Suppose you are God. What benefit do you derive from a creation that has free will? What do you mean by free will? There are differing views out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Use any definition you wish, it doesn't matter which one within the scope of this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 And.... a real God would love us and not be so obssessed with whether we loved him back and, when we mess up he would grieve that we hurt each other not be outraged that we :disobeyed" him...sadly the Xian created "God" is an abusive, power mad, jackass just like so many millions of fundy parents.. it is also sad that you, Mr Authentic dude, do not see the pathology in your own view of God... Us loving Him helps us be the best that we can be. People hurt me recently and it's my love and obedience to God that stopped me from possibly making the situation worse. God vindicated me waaay better than I would have been able to do myself and He knew that the people who hurt me had hard hearts so had I tried to speak to them, it would have been of no avail. Only a Christian would use a word like "vindicated" lol. If in fact you didn't make the situation worse, it was due to your good judgment. Not God doing this or that. No, not my good judgment, I wanted to clear my name stat but He stopped me. It's amazing when He does things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Free will as in the ability to choose right AND wrong. Doing so gives creatures the ability to freely love me without me manipulating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 No, not my good judgment, I wanted to clear my name stat but He stopped me. It's amazing when He does things like that. No, no, no, that was your brain saying "better not say that.." based upon many years of conditioning. Or, are you saying you heard an audible voice from the heavens, or someone physically restrained you from speaking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 No, not my good judgment, I wanted to clear my name stat but He stopped me. It's amazing when He does things like that. No, no, no, that was your brain saying "better not say that.." based upon many years of conditioning. Or, are you saying you heard an audible voice from the heavens, or someone physically restrained you from speaking? Sometimes it's "that still small voice", sometimes it's through a pastor's sermon, sometimes it's through religious programming, many times it's through His Word but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. Just when I need Him most, He's there. One time I ignored the voice and I messed up. He helped me fix it, He told me what to do. Another time I ignored the voice and He literally did not let me do what I was going to do. I tried to do it anyway but He stopped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Free will as in the ability to choose right AND wrong. Doing so gives creatures the ability to freely love me without me manipulating them. Ok, that defines the term "free will" as being able to freely love God (you, in the hypothetical) without being manipulated. What benefit do you derive from that being the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Free will as in the ability to choose right AND wrong. Doing so gives creatures the ability to freely love me without me manipulating them. Ok, that defines the term "free will" as being able to freely love God (you, in the hypothetical) without being manipulated. What benefit do you derive from that being the case? If He forces me that is akin to rape, rape won't be fun for the victim [Edit] (that's an understatement), both parties should be willing participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thumbelina, So you are saying that the creation should have "fun" with the implication that God also derives "fun" from the creation? Is it fair to say that God gains some benefit from creation? And if so, what benefit might that be (even if it is "fun")? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thumbelina, So you are saying that the creation should have "fun" with the implication that God also derives "fun" from the creation? Is it fair to say that God gains some benefit from creation? And if so, what benefit might that be (even if it is "fun")? I answer this with a question, what biblical verse/verses did you know when you were a Christian that shows the reason for God creating us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings: 1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful? 2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings? 3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation? 4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules? I'd say the OP runs off the rails right at the start with the notion that God "had to" do anything. Hey, you are being a wee bit feisty, you're one of the peaceable lions, I had thought about giving you the nickname Asland. God is a social and loving being, He created us to love and be loved by Him. And if you don't love him you die. See evilbible.com for details. Don't quote evilbible, dude, that site is for the monumentally ignorant and I didn't think you were in that category. Evilbible.com is for the monumentally ignorant because...... 1. It is a commentary on actual bible scriptures that you have in your bible which Christians generally ignore in favor of the warm fuzzy ones? 2. The site points out inconsistencies Christians would rather sweep under the rug? 3. It could have a detrimental affect on scared Christian lemmings' belief systems? Attention new people, please visit Evilbible.com and Godisimaginary.com for some cool answers to your questions about Christianity. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Uh, uh. You show me yours and then I'll show you mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 If I could +1 this, I would All you have to do is click on the green arrow just underneath the post. Unless the feature is only available to ex-Christians. I don't know how the board would appear to an Authentic Christian Believer, or if that feature is disabled, or not. I didn't see the sex and Christianity subsection until I had made my 25th post. The edit feature also only appeared after that as well. Edited to add. I've just remembered that I also couldn't give out reputation points until the ex-christians unite symbol appeared under my username either. Heeeey! Long time no see! Um, you had put your year of birth as 1901 or something like that, so I thought maybe since you are waaay past your three score and ten you ran out of blessings. Glad to know that's not the reason for you MIA. Yeah, one gotta join the dark side to give rep points Sorry you are very anxious about hell *hugs* Trust me the year of birth is wrong by quite a huge margin. I lied about my age. However, I have to agree with the responses given to you by my fellow non-Christians on here. It's not a case of joining the dark side. I fought like hell for many years not to find myself in the position I am now. I came to this board as a Christian 5 years ago, but after looking at the evidence presented on here and elsewhere. I ended up an apostate like the others on here. It's not quite what I had in mind 5 years ago, but I had to go where the evidence led me. "I lied about my age." Well I kinda figured that from the get-go lol. Yeah , I realized the misunderstandings people on here have and I realize it is painful to lose a belief that gave comfort and hope (or was supposed to). The evidence is there but there are also many vain philosophies trying to counteract it. The faith factor does play a part too, God does manifest Himself (it's hard to explain, that's why one has to "taste" for themself) to those who obey Him. Christianity: Step 1: Allow yourself to believe in the existence of imaginary characters. Step 2: Allow others to further embellish on the story about these imaginary characters. Another great link sure to please Thumb is http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Sometimes it's "that still small voice", sometimes it's through a pastor's sermon, sometimes it's through religious programming, many times it's through His Word but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. Just when I need Him most, He's there. One time I ignored the voice and I messed up. He helped me fix it, He told me what to do. Another time I ignored the voice and He literally did not let me do what I was going to do. I tried to do it anyway but He stopped me. So much for free will. :-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Sometimes it's "that still small voice", sometimes it's through a pastor's sermon, sometimes it's through religious programming, many times it's through His Word but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. Just when I need Him most, He's there. One time I ignored the voice and I messed up. He helped me fix it, He told me what to do. Another time I ignored the voice and He literally did not let me do what I was going to do. I tried to do it anyway but He stopped me. So much for free will. :-) Read the context of this thread, midnight, CONTEXT. We are talking about creating the original creatures. It is evident that you do not understand biblical themes, sub themes and interlocking doctrines that make the bible cohesive. Heh, heh, I had a miniature Balaam experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Uh, uh. You show me yours and then I'll show you mine. Sorry man, I need some evidence that you knew/know some bible. MANY people just regurgitate what they were taught or fallacies they read into the bible or read from the net without knowing how to trace doctrines, they use secular methodologies, they're usually the SAB and evilbible crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Don't quote evilbible, dude, that site is for the monumentally ignorant and I didn't think you were in that category. Don't quote holybible dudette. That book is for the monumentally ignorant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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