To All Of God's Critics

[boftx]

I take it you came across my "puny god" comment with regard to your "challenge"

 

You should know very well that there is no direct statement of the benefit derived by God in the act of creation other than some verses alluding to creation reflecting the glory of God and possibly a verse in the NT stating that we are created to serve God gladly. There are others, primarially in the NT, that assert it is God's plan for us to be redeemed through the attonement purchased by Christs' blood.

 

(Thinking back further, I do recall a couple of verses in the OT that reference that some actions cause incense to be a repugnant smell to God, as well as a couple of verses stating God found various sacrifices to be acceptable, such as that by Abel. But again, those do not directly address the question being posed.)

 

So again, I am asking you, what benefit accrues to God by the act of creation, especially a creation that includes free will such as you describe?

 

And while we're at it, if one grants that the problem of evil is most likely the number one reason for people leaving the faith (any faith) then what are the implications of, and what is the effects of the idea that the act of Creation and the Final Judgement are one and the same on a) the problem of evil itself, and the notion of God being all powerful in that any given even can be affected by God?

[Thumbelina]

 

 

Don't quote evilbible, dude, that site is for the monumentally ignorant and I didn't think you were in that category.

Don't quote holybible dudette. That book is for the monumentally ignorant.

 

 

Hey Par, I like when you bug me. I hope you realized that I meant monumentally ignorant as in knowing the gospel.

[midniterider]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes it's "that still small voice", sometimes it's through a pastor's sermon, sometimes it's through religious programming, many times it's through His Word but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. Just when I need Him most, He's there. One time I ignored the voice and I messed up. He helped me fix it, He told me what to do. Another time I ignored the voice and He literally did not let me do what I was going to do. I tried to do it anyway but He stopped me.

 

So much for free will. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Read the context of this thread, midnight, CONTEXT. We are talking about creating the original creatures. It is evident that you do not understand biblical themes, sub themes and interlocking doctrines that make the bible cohesive.

 

Heh, heh, I had a miniature Balaam experience.

 

 You were talking about original creatures? I thought you were talking about god taking away your free will to do something against his wishes. He literally did not let you do something i.e. free will denied. Boom!

[Thumbelina]

I take it you came across my "puny god" comment with regard to your "challenge"

 

You should know very well that there is no direct statement of the benefit derived by God in the act of creation other than some verses alluding to creation reflecting the glory of God and possibly a verse in the NT stating that we are created to serve God gladly. There are others, primarially in the NT, that assert it is God's plan for us to be redeemed through the attonement purchased by Christs' blood.

 

(Thinking back further, I do recall a couple of verses in the OT that reference that some actions cause incense to be a repugnant smell to God, as well as a couple of verses stating God found various sacrifices to be acceptable, such as that by Abel. But again, those do not directly address the question being posed.)

 

So again, I am asking you, what benefit accrues to God by the act of creation, especially a creation that includes free will such as you describe?

 

And while we're at it, if one grants that the problem of evil is most likely the number one reason for people leaving the faith (any faith) then what are the implications of, and what is the effects of the idea that the act of Creation and the Final Judgement are one and the same on a) the problem of evil itself, and the notion of God being all powerful in that any given even can be affected by God?

 

Yeah, I saw the puny remark (puny remark )  but somebody (maybe you)  came on here before I gave a smart alecky response

What benefit do you get from sharing with others or don't you do that?

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes it's "that still small voice", sometimes it's through a pastor's sermon, sometimes it's through religious programming, many times it's through His Word but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. Just when I need Him most, He's there. One time I ignored the voice and I messed up. He helped me fix it, He told me what to do. Another time I ignored the voice and He literally did not let me do what I was going to do. I tried to do it anyway but He stopped me.

 

So much for free will. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Read the context of this thread, midnight, CONTEXT. We are talking about creating the original creatures. It is evident that you do not understand biblical themes, sub themes and interlocking doctrines that make the bible cohesive.

 

Heh, heh, I had a miniature Balaam experience.

 

 You were talking about original creatures? I thought you were talking about god taking away your free will to do something against his wishes. He literally did not let you do something i.e. free will denied. Boom!

 

 

If you read the bible like you read these posts then I can see WHY you are an exChristian. You're helter skelter; have you been hangin' with Heretic?

[boftx]

Thumbelina,

 

It was you who posed the original challenge, and you who found fault with a number of responses to it. Seeing that, I posed an alternate challenge to you that is an attempt to see why you attach some degree to importance to how creation was designed.

 

If one grants that there is purpose to God's actions, then it is reasonable to devine that purpose if possible.

 

Please, I am waiting for your response to my challenge. Is it easier if I simplify the question for you? How does God benefit by the act of Creation?

[midniterider]

 

Uh, uh. You show me yours and then I'll show you mine.

 

Sorry man, I need some evidence that you knew/know some bible. MANY people just regurgitate what they were taught or fallacies they read into the bible or read from the net without knowing how to trace doctrines, they use secular methodologies, they're usually the SAB and evilbible crew.

 

"Out of Context" means "I have no legit defense so I have to make up baloney to save face." 

 

What is interesting about the "Out of context" argument is there is such a vast amount of absurd notions in the bible that when you put all these absurd notions together into one cohesive book you discover that the Context of the bible is Absurdity itself!  :-)

[midniterider]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes it's "that still small voice", sometimes it's through a pastor's sermon, sometimes it's through religious programming, many times it's through His Word but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. Just when I need Him most, He's there. One time I ignored the voice and I messed up. He helped me fix it, He told me what to do. Another time I ignored the voice and He literally did not let me do what I was going to do. I tried to do it anyway but He stopped me.

 

So much for free will. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Read the context of this thread, midnight, CONTEXT. We are talking about creating the original creatures. It is evident that you do not understand biblical themes, sub themes and interlocking doctrines that make the bible cohesive.

 

Heh, heh, I had a miniature Balaam experience.

 

 You were talking about original creatures? I thought you were talking about god taking away your free will to do something against his wishes. He literally did not let you do something i.e. free will denied. Boom!

 

 

If you read the bible like you read these posts then I can see WHY you are an exChristian. You're helter skelter; have you been hangin' with Heretic?

 

Avoid my comment about free will and redirect to ADHD. I'll have to deduct points for that. :-)

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings:

 

1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful?

2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings?

3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation?

4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules?

 

I'm going to attempt to answer every question as well as I possibly can and I am very interested in a response from you Thumbelina, just to see what you think of this. I am far from perfect and from being all-knowing, so if I overlook any details or potential problems, that is because I can make errors and may not know of or consider every possibility.

 

1. The beings I create will be equally as powerful as I am. If I was an all-powerful god, I could easily make it work.

 

2. If I was God, evil would simply not exist, whatsoever, but free will would still be possible within the parameters of my creation. So this means my creations could choose to worship me or not to worship me. They could choose what they want to do with their life, who their friends are, all of those things, without me ever interfering with their lives where I am not needed or wanted and without me forcing them to do exactly what I want them to do, with the exception of not being able to choose to do evil.

 

3. By not allowing evil to exist, my creations would certainly not be able to hurt each other or me, but at the same time, even if it was possible for my creations to hurt each other, they probably would not be able to hurt me, because, to be honest, if they had the ability to hurt each other, I would have no choice other than to make them less powerful than me so they could not hurt me.

 

4. With there being no evil and no need for rules, there would be nothing to do to those who broke the rules if there were no rules to break.

 

The way I see it, my response to your challenge shows that I could easily do better than your god, if he really did exist and I was also a god and we were participating in a "God Competition" using different planets. I am going to explain why I think this way.

 

Here is how your god deals with the questions you have asked:

 

1. He made them less powerful (no problem with that).

 

2. He gave only one species free will, but in some cases, has actually forced people to make decisions or actions that would result in them being punished in some severe way. At the moment, the only instance I know of is when he hardened the pharaoh's heart many times, forcing him to refuse to let the Hebrew slaves go.

 

The problems here is, he gave his creations, the angels and the humans, free will, but forced the other creatures, mainly all of the animals on the Earth, to suffer the consequences of any bad decisions made by the angels and/or humans, resulting in the animals being punished for the sins of the humans and/or angels. I mean, the animals don't even have the free will to choose to sin, but yet they are punished for sins they did not commit or choose to commit. What kind of monstrous god would be responsible for such a terrible system as this? My guess would be a very imperfect and in some cases, sadistic, god.

 

3. He really doesn't do much to prevent his creations from hurting each other or himself. Usually he just punishes afterwards, no prevention whatsoever. In fact, he has actually been responsible for his creations hurting each other. It seems the only way your god can be hurt by his creations is when his creations decide not to massage his big ego. It makes me wonder, was he eternally cursed with a big ego by something other than himself, or did he just one day, out of the blue of eternity, decide to be a dick? Since I don't believe he is real, I think humans made him a dick, but if I believed he was real, I would drive myself insane thinking about why he was a dick.

 

4. What does he do to those who break his rules? Hmm... Let me see... Well, there are a large variety of things he does to them. Usually the consequence of something sinning is an extremely excessive punishment, or, he punishes the innocent for the sins of the guilty. For instance, killing babies and children for the actions of adults and also, cursing all animals other than people with death, disease, and every other problem that plagues humanity, because of the actions of humans when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. What kind of monstrous god is this?

 

When I look at this list of your questions and the way it appears your god acted accordingly, at least within the text of the stories he exists in, I see failures, upon failures, upon failures. Or maybe... Maybe it's not failures at all! Maybe he's just a sadistic dick! Lol, that was a half-joke right there. When I look at this list of possible failures, which could be intentional actions, I see the actions of an extremely flawed, and imperfect god, who pretends to be perfect, despite not being so. At times when he should be apologizing for terrible actions, within the stories, he just goes, "How dare you question me?! You're so small and insignificant, how dare you question me?!"

 

I know I am imperfect and have flaws of my own, that is a given, but despite that, I could easily do better than your god, if I was a real god at all, because I guess it seems my ego is quite a bit smaller than Yahweh's. It seems I'm quite a bit less sadistic than Yahweh, though I do at times have a sadistic streak. But in conclusion, if I was perfect and had no flaws whatsoever, I would most definitely be a better god than Yahweh.

[par4dcourse]

I'm liking boftx's question better all the time.

[raoul]

 

 

 

Which is another reason why I believe Christianity is BS.  Christians are not different than non-Christians... Oh but the bible says we will know them by their fruit... Well, that's not true unless the definition of "fruit" in that verse is, "their proclamation of faith."

 

Lulz

 

You are somewhat right but God will judge, the wheat and tares have to grow together.

 

That's why we are not saved by being good; we are saved by faith. One Pastor told his children NEVER pray this prayer "God, please help me to be good?" We display fruit or behave good (relatively, we fall short of God's standard) BECAUSE we are saved and that is the sanctification process which lasts a lifetime.

And some of us will be judging YOUR god because, quite frankly, it leaves alot to be desired if it did exist which, of course, it doesn't. It comes down to this - those of you who follow the imaginary bully in the sky need to follow because you are incapable of doing otherwise. Those of us who have seen through the curtain, so to speak, know reality and chose to follow Truth no matter where it takes us. You live in a fantasy and we live in reality. Plain and simple.

 

 

God IS on trial but alas, many people do the things stated in my sig' and are therefore unable to see His love and mercy.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[creative]

 

 

 

 

Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings:

 

1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful?

2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings?

3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation?

4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules?

 

Fun

 

1. More powerful

2. Complete free will

3. Not (would contradict with free will)

4. None (would contradict with free will)

 

 

 

1. More powerful ---- Can't happen, they need to be self existent.

2. Complete free will ---- You mean complete autonomy and not just a freedom to choose to obey or not, right?

3. Not (would contradict with free will) ---- You won't mind mayhem occurring? (Yeah, I know Mayhem is cute but ...)

4. None (would contradict with free will) --- So total anarchy for you?

 

1. Something does not need to be self existent to be more powerfull (that is if self existent even exists). Humans are capable of creating things more powerfull then themselfs.

2. Nope i mean free will... to do what ever they want, wish includes breaking all laws (gravity, phisics etc). Same free will humans have right now.

3. Not at all, freedom is worth it.. and a god who would realy love its creation would agree.

4. Yep, still beats hell if you ask me.

 

 

 

 

 

1. In the mortal sphere that is true but if a being is inherently immortal, does not have derived life, then ANY created being cannot equal or surpass it. That only happens in myths like Greek mythologies.

 

2. Created beings cannot have COMPLETE autonomy as they are not all knowing and they have the ability to hurt other creatures. God does not let sin and evil go unchecked, He steps in sometimes to curb it. Glad you ain't God, bro, otherwise under your rulership this planet will go kablooey. My bible says God will destroy those who destroy the earth, that means He has RULES! When a person breaks them there will be consequences.

 

3. Would you actually want this planet or the universe to be run like the the Okay Corral? To have what evolution actually suggests, 'survival of the fittest'? My cousin got shot this year and I had another one that got shot the year before, they survived but MANY others don't. Every year they start by counting how many murders for 2011, 2012, 2013. The people tend to LOVE revelry and some up the ante by getting pleasure in killing others (too much dang TV and video games and no God or even good principles as the civil government is failing). The police are completely crappy so many violent people get away with their crimes until another more violent person gets them and when they can't get them they kill their relatives or spouses or lovers. I know your way sucks from an intellectual perspective and from personal experiences. People were slandering me recently and in civil society they did not break any rules but in God's Holy court they are guilty.

 

4. Have you seen hell or been there? Do you understand what it will entail?

 

If you compare what i said to your bible god, why is he any better?

I dont send people to hell, i dont let plagues loos on people, i dont smite people when they dont obey me, i dont instruct people to sacrifice there children to me, i dont rape maria, i dont send people on crusades, i dont force people to love me, i dont give people sin and then murder my child to take it away, i dont commit mas genocide and i dont hate gays.

 

I know the world is sick and fact is your god is not doing anything about it. Sure he will send the people to hell when they die. But how is this helping again?

 

I know you cant understand why people do these things. But there is a good explanation for it. All people live in there one little illusion, and some times people have a way of justifying these actions in there illusion making them "oke" things to do (unfortunatly to often in the name of god).

[Ravenstar]

Pops popcorn, sits back, gets comfy...

 

thinks...'if anyone can actually get a christian to answer a question directly, I'll eat my toque'

 

(popcorn AND and enjoyable subtext, yay!)

[creative]

Pops popcorn, sits back, gets comfy...

 

thinks...'if anyone can actually get a christian to answer a question directly, I'll eat my toque'

 

(popcorn AND and enjoyable subtext, yay!)

 

lol

[LifeCycle]

Tough questions usually scare them off. They believe they have all the answers, just as I did. But they never asked the right questions, just as I did... Until one day.

 

Christian or not, you should be interested in truth - even if it lures you outside of your comfort zone. But hey, if you're not interested in truth than avoiding it will be easy.

[raoul]

Pops popcorn, sits back, gets comfy...

 

thinks...'if anyone can actually get a christian to answer a question directly, I'll eat my toque'

 

(popcorn AND and enjoyable subtext, yay!)

Ah, you're just NOT taking their comments in CONTEXT..... ROFL

[bornagainathiest]

 

Thanks for the advice BAA. Even though this was my first (I think it was first) reply to her I am very familiar with her modus operandi thanks to you and other members who actually started threads about her methods/personality/et.al. Her calling me one of the 'new' ones around here showed, once more, her shallowness - she didn't take any time checking me out before spouting nonsense. And naturally, I don't expect any reply back from her. I'm just sick and tired the way people like her come over here and subtlely(in their minds anyway) quote from the magical book of myths to us and think we're going to fall into any of their traps. They have as much contempt for us as many of us do for them with the difference being that we've walked their path and found it to be total bs. They seem to forget this very important fact. I mean, the freaking site is called EX-christian.net for krissakes! What don't they get?

 

 

Dude, don't pay attention to BAA's nuttiness.

 

Did you EVER address me before? You are new in that sense.

 

I find you guys interesting and many to be likeable, there's no contempt .

 

Nuttiness?

 

Sorry Thumby, but I can prove everything I wrote about you in #914.  The truth of what you are and the proof of what you've done can't be covered up or ignored.   The Moderators will confirm this, should I need to ask them.  Other Lions, like Centauri (who you've just bad mouthed in another thread) can back up what I say about you.  Those members you've abused will vouch for the truth of my words, should I need to ask them. 

 

So, calling me nutty is exactly what I'd like you to carry on doing. 

Please continue handing out the slights and the put downs.  Please carry on with the name-calling, the teasing and the taunting.  Please continue treating us with contempt.  Don't let me stop you being the real you!  The more you do it - the more we see you for what you really are.

 

James 3: 9 & 10.

"With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth come praising and cursing.  My brothers and sisters, this should not be."

 

 

 

BAA

[raoul]

 

Thanks for the advice BAA. Even though this was my first (I think it was first) reply to her I am very familiar with her modus operandi thanks to you and other members who actually started threads about her methods/personality/et.al. Her calling me one of the 'new' ones around here showed, once more, her shallowness - she didn't take any time checking me out before spouting nonsense. And naturally, I don't expect any reply back from her. I'm just sick and tired the way people like her come over here and subtlely(in their minds anyway) quote from the magical book of myths to us and think we're going to fall into any of their traps. They have as much contempt for us as many of us do for them with the difference being that we've walked their path and found it to be total bs. They seem to forget this very important fact. I mean, the freaking site is called EX-christian.net for krissakes! What don't they get?

 

 

Dude, don't pay attention to BAA's nuttiness.

 

Did you EVER address me before? You are new in that sense.

 

I find you guys interesting and many to be likeable, there's no contempt .

I didn't catch your reply until my FRIEND BAA quoted your comment to me. His 'nuttiness'? You mean he hears a still small voice that makes him do things or doesn't let him go until he does? Oh dear, my bad - that was YOU commenting about the voices in your head to another person in this thread. Yeah, I knew someone who behaved in the same way. She suffered from Dementia Praecox(sic) - a very severe form of schizophrenia. Now please don't reply okay? I do not suffer fools wisely. And more importantly, don't try that divide and conquer crap with me or anyone else. It's childish and more importantly, potentially harmful for you - not physical but regarding a war of words. You see, I count these people as very special and dear to me. And you? You're nothing more than another warmed over xtian turd spewing out the same crap. IE: look at me, look at me. Ain't I special? I know some bible verses and the imaginary sky bully speaks directly to me. Look at me.....

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina,

 

It was you who posed the original challenge, and you who found fault with a number of responses to it. Seeing that, I posed an alternate challenge to you that is an attempt to see why you attach some degree to importance to how creation was designed.

 

If one grants that there is purpose to God's actions, then it is reasonable to devine that purpose if possible.

 

Please, I am waiting for your response to my challenge. Is it easier if I simplify the question for you? How does God benefit by the act of Creation?

 

 

He gets to share His creative acts with sentient beings. I see you did not answer my question about sharing with others. If a person who's not a complete scrooge is able to share their resources with others and the other people derive benefit or pleasure (clean and holy) from it, it causes happiness a joy all around.

 

Why do most men and women want children? Why do MANY women (mere women as compared to God) want to have kids before their biological clock is all ticked out?

If a couple is rich and are jet setters and really enjoy what life has to give, why would they yearn for a child? Shouldn't they just stay with each other? I mean, the earth is overpopulated as is.

 

 

God created us in His image, He is a creative genius and He created creatures that can reproduce and the higher order of creatures (humans) can be quite creative also, so creative that we can create machines or materials (not out of nothing like Him though) that can wipe us out. God loves teaching His children about Himself and not because of His purported ego as skeptics love to say but about His selfless ways. This causes joy unspeakable in the universe, i.e. when God's character is reflected.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes it's "that still small voice", sometimes it's through a pastor's sermon, sometimes it's through religious programming, many times it's through His Word but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. Just when I need Him most, He's there. One time I ignored the voice and I messed up. He helped me fix it, He told me what to do. Another time I ignored the voice and He literally did not let me do what I was going to do. I tried to do it anyway but He stopped me.

 

So much for free will. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

Read the context of this thread, midnight, CONTEXT. We are talking about creating the original creatures. It is evident that you do not understand biblical themes, sub themes and interlocking doctrines that make the bible cohesive.

 

Heh, heh, I had a miniature Balaam experience.

 

 You were talking about original creatures? I thought you were talking about god taking away your free will to do something against his wishes. He literally did not let you do something i.e. free will denied. Boom!

 

 

If you read the bible like you read these posts then I can see WHY you are an exChristian. You're helter skelter; have you been hangin' with Heretic?

 

Avoid my comment about free will and redirect to ADHD. I'll have to deduct points for that. :-)

 

 

 

 

I did not avoid it, in CONTEXT, a HYPOTHETICAL question was asked and it was about me being God and creating creatures ORIGINALLY and NOT about the current effects of sin (this is what obsessive atheistic types rely on to criticize God) but of having a game plan for potential problems.

 

 

Free will in the Christian sphere entails worshiping God or NOT. Adam & Eve did not worship God with their whole heart and thus they disobeyed Him; they were ungrateful and that caused them to CHOOSE to sin and thus the consequences of sin.

 

This was the convo':

 

 

boftx 05:02 PM said: Thumbelina, I have a challenge for you. Suppose you are God. What benefit do you derive from a creation that has free will?

 

Thumbelina said: What do you mean by free will? There are differing views out there.

 

boftx said: Use any definition you wish, it doesn't matter which one within the scope of this question.

 

 

Thumbelina said: Free will as in the ability to choose right AND wrong. Doing so gives creatures the ability to freely love me without me manipulating them.

 

 

Hellllo, Midnight, I was the hypothetical god in those posts but you did the typical atheistic pastime of mixing any and every situation to "discredit God". You took other questions from other posters and blended it with the above posts. As I said, I can see why many skeptics don't see the gospel, they use these methodologies all the time and that includes those evilbible, SAB etc. people too. They read NOT to learn but to support their biases.

[bornagainathiest]

Q.

What have Adam and Eve got to do with this? http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/planck/news/planck20130321.html

 

A.

Nothing.

[bornagainathiest]

Q.

What's God creating everything out of nothing, got to do with this? http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/planck/news/planck20130321.html

 

A.

Nothing.

[par4dcourse]

This causes joy unspeakable in the universe, i.e. when God's character is reflected.

Then he sends the majority to hell forever. More character reflection.

[bornagainathiest]

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/planck/news/planck20130321.html

 

This ain't a bias, Thumbelina.  It's evidence.

 

Outside of the Bible, where's yours?

[Thumbelina]

Here's a challenge to all of God's critics. If you were God and you had to create beings:

 

1.Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful?

2.What degree of free will will you allow to those beings?

3.How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation?

4.What will you do with those beings who break your rules?

 

 

crazyguy123, on 19 Mar 2013 - 21:31, said:

 

I'm going to attempt to answer every question as well as I possibly can and I am very interested in a response from you Thumbelina, just to see what you think of this. I am far from perfect and from being all-knowing, so if I overlook any details or potential problems, that is because I can make errors and may not know of or consider every possibility.

 

 

Thumbelina: Thank you for acknowledging that you are not all knowing ; neither am I, therefore I rely on the biblical explanations for the problem of evil (calamity and sin) and for the solutions for said problem and the more I know, the more I realize there's more to know and it's marveloooous!

 

 

 

1. The beings I create will be equally as powerful as I am. If I was an all-powerful god, I could easily make it work.

 

1) How will that be possible? The bible says that only God hath immortality, it says God (as fully God, not the God-man blend) cannot die. By using deductive reasoning one can see that a created being is not innately immortal and can NEVER be as powerful as an uncreated God. The bible also said that God is unique, there is [and won't be] none like Him.

 

2. If I was God, evil would simply not exist, whatsoever, but free will would still be possible within the parameters of my creation. So this means my creations could choose to worship me or not to worship me. They could choose what they want to do with their life, who their friends are, all of those things, without me ever interfering with their lives where I am not needed or wanted and without me forcing them to do exactly what I want them to do, with the exception of not being able to choose to do evil.

 

2) You contradicted yourself. You would let them choose to worship you or not but then you won't let them choose to do evil? I think as a God you don't even know what doing evil is. Hello! God's know good and evil.

I've had people doing evil to me and they did not physically touch me or steal my property but they did try to malign me in an almost covert way but some of their body language, actions and tone of voice gave them away. It disturbed me for months! It's not easy knowing you are innocent and someone wants to slander you. I personally UNDERSTAND what God went through and still goes through but my situation was picayune compared to His.

 

3.By not allowing evil to exist, my creations would certainly not be able to hurt each other or me, but at the same time, even if it was possible for my creations to hurt each other, they probably would not be able to hurt me, because, to be honest, if they had the ability to hurt each other, I would have no choice other than to make them less powerful than me so they could not hurt me.

 

3) You're funny.

Where there is NO choice, there is NO love. God does not do shotgun weddings. All creatures had/have the CHOICE to choose to sin or transgress God's moral law. Do you think hurting someone entails only physical harm?

What about slandering etc., is that OK; do people get emotionally hurt by those acts? What about mental cruelty? Have you ever had the misfortune to be around a narcissistic type of person? A selfish human who is "never wrong"? I have, and they made me HATE godlessness and to understand that we NEED rules/commandments to prevent such damned mental abuse.

 

 

 

4. With there being no evil and no need for rules, there would be nothing to do to those who broke the rules if there were no rules to break. The way I see it, my response to your challenge shows that I could easily do better than your god, if he really did exist and I was also a god and we were participating in a "God Competition" using different planets. I am going to explain why I think this way.

 

4) Are you saying you would force one of your most beautiful beings from becoming narcissistic instead of just trying to appeal to their reason? You'll turn him into a zombie puppet?

The loving attitude that following the rules (not bearing false witness, no coveting, no stealing etc.) entailed/s, came naturally to created beings. When one of them took their eyes off of God and focused on themself that's when they would have understood the laws more and yet they STILL had a CHOICE to obey or not and they chose not.The law was/is not grievous, it sets parameters. The effects of transgression was embodied on the cross; that is where sin is fully understood and why we NEED rules.

 

Here is how your god deals with the questions you have asked:

1. He made them less powerful (no problem with that).

 

1) Damn right, only God hath immortality (innate)

 

 

2. He gave only one species free will, but in some cases, has actually forced people to make decisions or actions that would result in them being punished in some severe way. At the moment, the only instance I know of is when he hardened the Pharaoh's heart many times, forcing him to refuse to let the Hebrew slaves go. The problems here is, he gave his creations, the angels and the humans, free will, but forced the other creatures, mainly all of the animals on the Earth, to suffer the consequences of any bad decisions made by the angels and/or humans, resulting in the animals being punished for the sins of the humans and/or angels. I mean, the animals don't even have the free will to choose to sin, but yet they are punished for sins they did not commit or choose to commit. What kind of monstrous god would be responsible for such a terrible system as this? My guess would be a very imperfect and in some cases, sadistic, god.

 

2) No other creature on this earth is sentient, they cannot be compared with humans.

Adam had dominion over this planet but he chose to relinquish it and all creation has had to suffer along with him/us (eg see Ps 8:6) Picture man dying but no animals dying, the animals would've ruled over man lol 'Sit Adam sit!' ('sit crazyguy123 sit', how'd ya like that, huh?) the dog would've put Adam on a leash lol. That was NOT God's plan; God is MINDFUL of us, you know.

As an aside, I feel a sort of deja vu as you said the above statements. You seem sort of familiar.

God does not force people to worship Him or not worship Him. He knocks on every heart's door -through the Holy Spirit- and sometimes He does extra by displaying His power (like the situation with Pharaoh) and it is up to the individual to CHOOSE to harden their heart (like Pharaoh) or not when God appeals to them and sometimes by showing them His might.

 

 

3. He really doesn't do much to prevent his creations from hurting each other or himself. Usually he just punishes afterwards, no prevention whatsoever. In fact, he has actually been responsible for his creations hurting each other. It seems the only way your god can be hurt by his creations is when his creations decide not to massage his big ego. It makes me wonder, was he eternally cursed with a big ego by something other than himself, or did he just one day, out of the blue of eternity, decide to be a dick? Since I don't believe he is real, I think humans made him a dick, but if I believed he was real, I would drive myself insane thinking about why he was a dick.

 

 

3) Your snark is duly noted If humans made up God, He'd be like those fickle and immoral God's of Greek & Hindu mythologies or like the god you think He is. He'd be just like us but with great power. You know not of what you speak. There were/are rules of engagement. He told Adam and Eve not to eat of that particular tree or they shall surely die. The OT is replete with warning after warning of impending judgment. God cared for the evil place of Las Vegas Nineveh.

God's law is as eternal as Himself. Perhaps His laws were stated more in the affirmative before sin occurred and He said more do's than don'ts but He had laws or moral principles. Have you considered that by God giving us children to raise, we can then identify with Him? Let parents raise children without setting boundaries and see what happens in homes and society at large.

 

 

 

Have you ever heard of Divine Pathos? God is Holy and therefore feels pain as it were, and He does get hurt when we sin but He is selfless and risks pain so His creatures can freely love Him.

This is implied in Habakkuk 1:13 You are of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look upon iniquity (grievance) ...

 

 

God is SELFLESS and He does NOT need us but He wants us to FREELY love Him and having freedom is beneficial for all creation so He risked (for lack of a better word) allowing us to hurt Him and each other (temporarily).

I once discussed these topics with an agnostic (I liked him, Centauri kinda reminds me of him but he wasn't scared like Centauri and he did not have most of the knowledge Centauri has, even though Centauri is off half-cocked with said info) and he said that as a god he would be more interested in well, something akin to not creating any other creatures but just hanging around and playing with non sentient creatures and inanimate objects, than tormenting ants (that's us btw). I found Him to be a god that lacked umph, that had no moxy! He was a god scared (maybe he's more like Centauri than I realized) of pain and I was not impressed with him as a god.

 

All our anguish, all God's anguish, is for God to selflessly

give us freedom of choice:

"By endowing us with freedom, God relinquished a measure of his own sovereignty and imposed certain limitations upon himself."

Jesus laid aside some of His Divinity to die for us (see John 10:17-18)

 

 

4. What does he do to those who break his rules? Hmm... Let me see... Well, there are a large variety of things he does to them. Usually the consequence of something sinning is an extremely excessive punishment, or, he punishes the innocent for the sins of the guilty. For instance, killing babies and children for the actions of adults and also, cursing all animals other than people with death, disease, and every other problem that plagues humanity, because of the actions of humans when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. What kind of monstrous god is this? When I look at this list of your questions and the way it appears your god acted accordingly, at least within the text of the stories he exists in, I see failures, upon failures, upon failures. Or maybe... Maybe it's not failures at all! Maybe he's just a sadistic dick! Lol, that was a half-joke right there.

When I look at this list of possible failures, which could be intentional actions, I see the actions of an extremely flawed, and imperfect god, who pretends to be perfect, despite not being so. At times when he should be apologizing for terrible actions, within the stories, he just goes, "How dare you question me?! You're so small and insignificant, how dare you question me?!" I know I am imperfect and have flaws of my own, that is a given, but despite that, I could easily do better than your god, if I was a real god at all, because I guess it seems my ego is quite a bit smaller than Yahweh's. It seems I'm quite a bit less sadistic than Yahweh, though I do at times have a sadistic streak. But in conclusion, if I was perfect and had no flaws whatsoever, I would most definitely be a better god than Yahweh.

 

Lol, you have a sadistic streak? You think that it's ideal to have?

*speaking in a gentle voice* This critique is meant to be constructive. Your rant is symptomatic of one who is uninformed, of one who did not and does not know how to do the things outlined in my signature (like read the Word in context, trace doctrines etc.) Have you ever listened to or read the words to the Christian song He is? While it certainly is not comprehensive, that song gives an overview of aspects of God's character that is showed in the various books.

 

Skeptics do not know about CONTEXT and they don't have an unction from the Holy Spirit, during their close-minded phases i.e., and that causes them to jump to wrong conclusions. If they open their minds the Spirit WILL teach them. As I'm going through my Christian journey and therefore trials, I can see where pain is needed to refine my character, ( I understand but I don't like it, I COMPLAIN, a lot! ) I understand why God says He cursed the earth for man's sake.