Were You Ever A Christian?

[OnceConvinced]

Can the troll speak in anything other than Bible verses? Does it have an original thought of its own? Has it occurred to it that Ex-Christians don't accept the Bible as true or inspired and is therefore useless as authority in a debate? Does it realize that many here know the Bible as well or better than he? (Some even studied in the original languages. BTW, none of those languages were the tongue of King James.)

 

He obviously believes that the bible still somehow holds an authority over our lives and that we still believe it to be the word of God rather than the word of ignorant bronze-aged tribesmen. He doesn't seem to realise that for the majority of us here, quoting the bible is the same as quoting Dr Seuss.

[OnceConvinced]

And "prove_17" ... I see just like the bable verses you are "cherry picking" to feed us here .... you are also "cherry picking" which posters you "attempt" to answer!

 

But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

1 Peter 3:15-16

Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

 

I still say I smell troll right now. (he strikes me as extremely different from the other Christians on this site, as he's really impersonal in all that he has posted, and that's already suspicious to me.)

 

I might be wrong. I'm just guessing. But it seems he's just quoting bible versus at us and not giving anything personal to the site, lacks imagination and personal touches (as his profile suggests to me).

 

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

Mat 7:15-20 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

[Dagan]

If you have studied the bible as much as you say, then why haven't you joined the rest of us atheists?

 

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

So are you the rich man, Lazarus, Abraham or Abraham's boob?

[Realist]

 

He obviously believes that the bible still somehow holds an authority over our lives and that we still believe it to be the word of God rather than the word of ignorant bronze-aged tribesmen. He doesn't seem to realise that for the majority of us here, quoting the bible is the same as quoting Dr Seuss.

 

... yes the old bable! The ruler with 13 inches to the foot! It is not until one comes to realise it that light is finally shed on why one constantly was making re-adjustments as a christian to try and make the measurements work! Hence the constant need to force square pegs into a round hole!

[bornagainathiest]

Ok Prove, see my moniker? 'Nuff said?

 

Please give us the 'true' understanding of what Romans 12: 1 & 2 means and how Christians should apply it.

 

Thanks.

 

BAA.

 

p.s.

2 Ti 2:23 shouldn't apply here, ok?

This passage has nothing to do with burning babies.

 

Rom 12:1 ¶I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

Live the way God wants you to live and be an example.

 

So how does God want all Christians to live?

 

C'mon! Specifics please. Details. Worked examples.

 

These things are there in the Bible. You should be able to quote chapter and verse on this.

 

What actions should a Christian do to prove the good, acceptable and perfect will of God?

 

What actions did you, as a Christian, do to prove the good, acceptable and perfect will of God?

 

You should also be able to provide examples from non-Biblical history of Christians who did these things too.

 

Well?

 

BAA.

 

 

p.s.

Your answers will require more than a twelve word, one-line reply.

[mwc]

The solution to this dilemma is quite simple. The book of Acts is the only book in the bible where there are examples of people becoming Christians. All you have do is find one convert that wasn't baptized and my post will be wrong. If you can't find at least one, then yes the United Methodist doctrine on baptism is also flawed.

What a strange argument you have.

 

The word "christian" is used 3 times in the whole NT and it is never related to "baptism:"

Acts 11:26 And when he had come across him, he took him to Antioch. And they were with the church there for a year, teaching the people; and the disciples were first given the name of Christians in Antioch.

 

Acts 26:28 And Agrippa said to Paul, A little more and you will be making me a Christian.

 

1 Peter 4:16 But if he undergoes punishment as a Christian, that is no shame to him; let him give glory to God in this name.

But to answer your "challenge:"

19 Then those who had gone away at the time of the trouble about Stephen, went as far as Phoenicia and Cyprus, preaching to the Jews only. 20 But some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, when they came to Antioch, gave the good news about the Lord Jesus to the Greeks. 21 And the power of the Lord was with them, and a great number had faith and were turned to the Lord. 22 And news of them came to the ears of the church at Jerusalem: and they sent Barnabas as far as Antioch: 23 Who, when he came and saw the grace of God, was glad; and he made clear to them the need of keeping near the Lord with all the strength of their hearts: 24 For he was a good man and full of the Holy Spirit and of faith: and a great number were joined to the Lord. 25 Then he went on to Tarsus, looking for Saul; 26 And when he had come across him, he took him to Antioch. And they were with the church there for a year, teaching the people; and the disciples were first given the name of Christians in Antioch. 27 Now in those days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch.

And they were all converted, in Antioch, the place where the term "christian" was supposedly coined, by the preaching of the "good news" and without a single mention of "baptism" with water or otherwise. The only mention of the "spirit," in case we're to assume there was a "baptism" of the spirit is mentioned in relation to Barnabas and he doesn't give it to others but only confirms a simple message. So many converts to "christians" all without baptism.

 

mwc

[Antlerman]

Actually, I was taught under the Church of Christ doctrine. When I realized the different interpretations from church to church I decided to study the entire bible myself without any outside commentaries or influences.

As much as I can commend you for wishing to do your own thinking, which I would say pretty much defines the vast majority of Ex-Christians on this site and why we are here, I do think that there will be a benefit to exposure to the works of others who have the tools of scholarship to that can offer insights you would not be able to come to otherwise.

 

To pick up a book like the Bible, written over a period of 1000 years in cultures entirely foreign to yours, not just in language, customs, beliefs, values, but in contexts of time where technologies, politics, and exposure to knowledge were entirely removed from everything you take for granted. There is no way simply reading the words translated and typed laying on the surface of the pages that you have enough context to really get enough picture of what they felt or meant in order to make judgments of one group reading it on the surface like you being right or wrong, or that you have the means to pass judgment on anyone, anywhere at all: those you think are saved, or those you don't, or even if there is such a thing in the first place. Follow?

 

In other words, the basic flaw behind those you criticize in other Christian churches are the same as yours. They go with a surface reading of the Bible and create sets of dogma to live by. There is much more that goes into picking up some ancient texts like the Bible and having anywhere near sufficient enough context in order to use them as Authority for your particular church's dogma, or a tool to criticize others such as us here on this site for not fitting your reading of the Bible.

 

A book like the Bible has to be able to fit a modern culture and have relevance to it, not just simply be used to attack it because it's not just like the ancient Near East 2000 years ago. It is far to easy and entirely lazy to point a finger at those who don't see eye to eye with you and claim authority with the Bible in judging them sinners. That is not the spirit of love, nor peace, nor compassion. That is self-righteousness.

 

The verse that kept nagging my mind over and over again as a Christian towards those around me was "By their fruits you shall know them." Of course I saw flaws in their theologies, flaws in their towers of arguments to support their dogma, logical fallacies in the anti-science, anti-reason stances, etc, etc, much like you do in seeing their shoddy doctrines. But at a far deeper level than just bad reasoning and bad scholarship was a lack of sincerity, a lack of depth. Their righteousness was based on having the correct doctrines, not on peace. Their unity was not from genuine, boundless love, but from conformity to each other doctrinally.

 

So let me ask you, on what basis do you listen to others? On their following your ideas of the Bible, or on something that may or may not agree with your understanding of that book? Are you willing to set aside your ideas of what the Bible says, or anyone's ideas of the Bible, and listen to an understanding that comes from your heart, not your reasoned ideas of truth? Or do you have take your heart and force-fit it to support your reading of the Bible because you are afraid to truly follow where it may go? In other words, just how truly independent are you?

 

Now I just make sure my family knows the truth. I'll still discuss it with any reasonable person.

Do you want them to know the truth as you think you understanding it, or are you looking for the freedom to follow truth where ever it leads you, since truth is greater than belief?

[oddbird1963]

According to the bible, the only way to become a Christian is:

 

 

< OP prints some cherry-picked words drenched in confirmation bias >

 

 

OH! I get it! You just tossed some magic oogie-boogie bible words at us. Now the magic is going to go through our eyes and into our hearts and we are going to fall to the ground trembling and groveling with tears in our eyes shouting "OH LORD! Forgive me!"

 

I don't care what your oogie boogie magic book says about becoming a christian. I was a christian. I finally realized it was . . . not conforming to reality.

 

My apologies if I mis-spelled oogie boogie. This is the first time I have ever written those words.

[oddbird1963]

A neutron walks in to a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?" The bartender replies, "There is no charge for you."

 

 

Should I be embarrassed for laughing at this one?

[florduh]

No, oddbird. We'll just put it on your bill.

[FourDogBrewing]

A neutron walks in to a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?" The bartender replies, "There is no charge for you."

 

 

Should I be embarrassed for laughing at this one?

 

I laughed audibly myself. haha

[FourDogBrewing]

Now I just make sure my family knows the truth. I'll still discuss it with any reasonable person.

Do you want them to know the truth as you think you understanding it, or are you looking for the freedom to follow truth where ever it leads you, since truth is greater than belief?

 

Anlterman, I feel this is key, that you have hit on an important facet here.

 

An opinion and belief founded in research is only as good as the source. In this case Prove_17's source is the bible. Prove, perhaps it is time you research your source. It seems you are genuine in you belief in the bible. That being the case what do you have to lose? Since you know you are right, it will only confirm what you already know. Or perhaps you are scared to even walk that path.

 

Be truthful with yourself, do some due diligence on your source.

 

If you do seek the truth, but are comfortable with your current state, you certainly don't want to start reading these forums and actually doing research. Doing so will inevitably lead to your de-conversion as it has all of us. Do not doubt that we are a group of sincere people who all once believed just as you do.

 

Start watching this series of videos, it will give you an idea where most of us come from, and the pains we have gone through. Perhaps you will realize most of us are intimately aquatinted with the bible, and have researched it and studied it the same way you have. We are not just a bunch of idiots who haven't thought about it.

 

[Shyone]

By your definition, yes I was a true chrsitian.

 

Actually, I was taught under the Church of Christ doctrine. When I realized the different interpretations from church to church I decided to study the entire bible myself without any outside commentaries or influences. When I saw the things we were doing wrong according to scriptures,( women speaking in church, being friends with and marrying non-believers, etc.,) I brought these things to the members attention and all I received were excuses. So after about eight years of this, I went out teaching at other congregations and were thrown out of most of them. Now I just make sure my family knows the truth. I'll still discuss it with any reasonable person.

 

If you have studied the bible as much as you say, then why haven't you joined the rest of us atheists? lol

 

If you are following the scriptures as closely as you can (women speaking in church etc...) then you might check out Westboro Baptist Church, I hear they have a handle on things.

It appears he thinks the first book in the bible is Matthew.

 

That way he doesn't have to defend the genocide, rape, ripping wombs open, execution of children, or all of the mythology.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

To keep my post from being lengthy, I dealt with only the subject being discussed. Notice I said Christian as opposed to "being saved"

When you get saved, you become a christian.

 

Acts 2:21 - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

Where did the troll go? Did I come back too late? Mann....

[prove_17]

So let me ask you, on what basis do you listen to others? On their following your ideas of the Bible, or on something that may or may not agree with your understanding of that book? Are you willing to set aside your ideas of what the Bible says, or anyone's ideas of the Bible, and listen to an understanding that comes from your heart, not your reasoned ideas of truth?

 

You mentioned my "ideas" of what the bible says. If the bible says, "to be faithful to my wife" I don't see how it's my idea of what the bible says to be "faithful to my wife". How can we have any understanding that comes from our so-called heart without some type of knowledge. My knowledge comes from God. If I do what HE says, I get a reward. If I don't do what HE says, I get punished. If I tell my child to clean their room and I'll give them ice cream for it or a spanking for not doing it. It's up to them to get the reward or the punishment. Not their idea of what I said or what their heart tells them. Granted, this is not expressed nearly as well as you may have expressed it, but I think you get the point.

 

 

Do you want them to know the truth as you think you understanding it, or are you looking for the freedom to follow truth where ever it leads you, since truth is greater than belief?

 

I am where TRUTH has lead me. My only goal in life is to be with God when this life is over.

[bdp]

'proof' -

 

you're a dick. and an asshole. so go fuck yourself.

[lunaticheathen]

So let me ask you, on what basis do you listen to others? On their following your ideas of the Bible, or on something that may or may not agree with your understanding of that book? Are you willing to set aside your ideas of what the Bible says, or anyone's ideas of the Bible, and listen to an understanding that comes from your heart, not your reasoned ideas of truth?

 

You mentioned my "ideas" of what the bible says. If the bible says, "to be faithful to my wife" I don't see how it's my idea of what the bible says to be "faithful to my wife". How can we have any understanding that comes from our so-called heart without some type of knowledge. My knowledge comes from God. If I do what HE says, I get a reward. If I don't do what HE says, I get punished. If I tell my child to clean their room and I'll give them ice cream for it or a spanking for not doing it. It's up to them to get the reward or the punishment. Not their idea of what I said or what their heart tells them. Granted, this is not expressed nearly as well as you may have expressed it, but I think you get the point.

 

 

Do you want them to know the truth as you think you understanding it, or are you looking for the freedom to follow truth where ever it leads you, since truth is greater than belief?

 

I am where TRUTH has lead me. My only goal in life is to be with God when this life is over.

 

*watches the point whiz over prove's head.*

[prove_17]

 

An opinion and belief founded in research is only as good as the source. In this case Prove_17's source is the bible. Prove, perhaps it is time you research your source. It seems you are genuine in you belief in the bible. That being the case what do you have to lose? Since you know you are right, it will only confirm what you already know. Or perhaps you are scared to even walk that path.

 

Be truthful with yourself, do some due diligence on your source.

 

If you do seek the truth, but are comfortable with your current state, you certainly don't want to start reading these forums and actually doing research. Doing so will inevitably lead to your de-conversion as it has all of us. Do not doubt that we are a group of sincere people who all once believed just as you do.

 

Start watching this series of videos, it will give you an idea where most of us come from, and the pains we have gone through. Perhaps you will realize most of us are intimately aquatinted with the bible, and have researched it and studied it the same way you have. We are not just a bunch of idiots who haven't thought about it.

 

Nor am I someone who just took someone's interpretation of what the bible said. I've studied with just about every religion you can think of here in America, just to make sure I had the correct 'interpretation" if you will. The only rule I had with studying the passages is that we didn't leave the confines of the bible, which all of the people I studied with agreed. Of course, while dealing with Muslims and Jews we would only study the Old Testament. I believe the difference between me and a lot of other people is that I'm not afraid of the truth. I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

[bdp]

afraid of the truth.

 

blow me

 

I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

 

you'll just torment yourself here and now. this 'torment' is a fable and you're an idiot, an obnoxious and pretentious one.

[Kurari]

I got baptized when I was a baby, but I was raised by atheist/agnostics. Then I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior years later when I was about...7 years old? That was my own decision.

 

And now I'm an Atheist and according to some Christians, I can't un-Christianize myself after accepting Jesus so I'm technically STILL a Christian.

 

So...uh...I don't know? It depends on who you talk to?

 

I left Christianity because it was way too confusing and it makes my brain hurt.

[bdp]

btw 'faith' you can't be the only one who has it right - I was Church of Christ and WE were the only ones who had it right. Ask any of the other ex-CoC'ers here.

[Astreja]

My knowledge comes from God.

Nope. Until you can provide scientific evidence that your god exists, you're getting your so-called "knowledge" from your imagination's idea of what your god is like.

 

My only goal in life is to be with God when this life is over.

I would say 'Expect that goal to fail', Prove_17, but it's more likely that you will never, ever know that the goal has failed. All the available evidence indicates that consciousness ceases with the death of the physical brain.

 

If you disagree, and think that "you" can survive your own death, try this little experiment. Try to maintain awareness of yourself tonight, all night, while asleep... Even through the dreamless parts of the sleep cycle. If you can't even do that while alive, what makes you think you'll be sentient after your brain has rotted away? Does. Not. Compute.

 

Please don't get too attached to the idea of Prove_17 living forever. Everything dies. Your eternal life consists of being broken down into your component atoms and becoming part of other things. The matter that comprises your body existed long before you were born, and will cheerfully carry on without you after you draw your last breath. Get used to it.

 

I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

Even allow a (mythical) innocent man to die in your place? That isn't exactly what I would call 'moral' behaviour.

 

I assert that "Hell" is almost certainly a myth, and you were never in any danger of eternal torment. However, if such a place actually did exist, what does that say about the character of the god you're worshipping?

[Antlerman]

So let me ask you, on what basis do you listen to others? On their following your ideas of the Bible, or on something that may or may not agree with your understanding of that book? Are you willing to set aside your ideas of what the Bible says, or anyone's ideas of the Bible, and listen to an understanding that comes from your heart, not your reasoned ideas of truth?

 

You mentioned my "ideas" of what the bible says. If the bible says, "to be faithful to my wife" I don't see how it's my idea of what the bible says to be "faithful to my wife".

Of course the example you choose is the most simplistic of all. Unfortunately, a very large and critical portion of it is not quite so simple. And the evidence of there being over 30,000 different Christian denominations should be "proof" of that.

 

I don't believe you think the rest of the Bible is as easy and clear to understand as that verse, and the fact that you had to leave your home church is evidence of this. You in fact struggle a great deal with it. You wish to convince others of it, to validate to yourself. Am I right?

 

How can we have any understanding that comes from our so-called heart without some type of knowledge. My knowledge comes from God.

Your "so-called" heart?? Are you that detached from your own soul that this sounds foreign to you? Have you supplanted your heart with doctrines of man?

 

I don't think there's anything I can say in words that would speak to something you are so pressed to hear within you. I could quote numerous Biblical verse which speak to this, but since you 'having ears to hear but do not hear', it seems an exercise in futility. You wouldn't hear. You dismiss the heart, and I would surmise with some strong level of confidence, because you fear.

 

If I do what HE says, I get a reward. If I don't do what HE says, I get punished. If I tell my child to clean their room and I'll give them ice cream for it or a spanking for not doing it. It's up to them to get the reward or the punishment. Not their idea of what I said or what their heart tells them. Granted, this is not expressed nearly as well as you may have expressed it, but I think you get the point.

This all is a child's imagination of God. A child teaching a child.

 

Antlerman: "Do you want them to know the truth as you think you understanding it, or are you looking for the freedom to follow truth where ever it leads you, since truth is greater than belief?"

 

I am where TRUTH has lead me. My only goal in life is to be with God when this life is over.

And I am where the TRUTH has led me. My only goal is to Realize it in this life, which IS.

 

 

I believe the difference between me and a lot of other people is that I'm not afraid of the truth. I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

I would strongly counter that you are afraid. "I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity," is a blatant admission that you are driven by FEAR. And being driven by FEAR, it is no wonder you cannot hear the voice of your heart. It is drowned out by your terror of punishment by the angry parent in the sky.

 

I have no belief in any hell, and yet my heart is drawn toward Love. I have no other motive than desire for that. There is no fear. What is it your own Bible says? "Perfect Love casts out all fear". But do you understand that?

 

Love transcends your beliefs.

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

More proof. Church of Christ turns people into atheists or assholes

[bdp]

More proof. Church of Christ turns people into atheists or assholes

 

Or both.