Were You Ever A Christian?

[bdp]

 

 

 

 

I drive below the speed limit, stop at stop signs, don't cheat on my taxes, etc,.

 

 

 

At work, I do things by the book, work very hard, I don't take breaks or lunch longer than I'm suppose to, I'm not where I'm not suppose to be etc,.

 

So do I - whoop de fuckin' shit.

 

 

btw - supposed to be. Lecture me, on anything, when you've had a proper education.

[lunaticheathen]

There is nothing spiritual in anything this person says. No light, no wisdom, no love, no compassion, no understanding, and no truth. I hear instead the broken expressions of a mind grasped by FEAR, in the sense of TERROR, not in the sense of 'respect' as in the bible verses he quoted to support his Legalism. I do pity him, and can only hope that something inside him can break through his phobias of life which take expression in his deliberately selected set of religious symbols.

 

Awomen.

His posts remind me why I fled christianity.

[Guest Valk0010]

We believe in one God,

the Father, the Almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

the only Son of God,

eternally begotten of the Father,

God from God, light from light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made,

of one Being with the Father;

through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation

he came down from heaven,

was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary

and became truly human.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;

he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again

in accordance with the Scriptures;

he ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,

and his kingdom will have no end.

 

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],

who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,

who has spoken through the prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm

 

Taking out the bold line(for its reference to catholic), isn't just simply believe and adhering to this, make you a christian.

[prove_17]

@prove

How powerful is god and his salvation plan, when only a handful of people will enter heaven? More than 90 % go to hell? Maybe satan seems to be much stronger than god. This salvation method is not very effective AND it is cruel for the few people who actually make it into heaven.

Prove, where enters jesus your religion? All this "keeping all laws" sounds more like a jewish version of xianity. If it is all up to you, where is salvation and grace? Where is jesus?

 

Tts 2:11 ¶For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

[prove_17]

Everything I said about love, etc, hit ears of stone. No penetration at all. No discussion. No comprehension. Not exposing himself to any other thoughts but his own within his religious peers, is a way to ensure no challenges are presented that may upset that self-created, legalistic edifice that guarantees his righteousness to save him from the ever-watchful Punisher judging him from the sky.

 

Very insightful post, this part resonates with me, I feel it is spot on. Prove is a one way street.

 

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[agnosticator]

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

From your sig.:

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

I noticed your sig., and will comment on it even though you it may fall on deaf ears. When the Bible speaks of God and knowledge, it is not referring to human knowledge. It is referring to knowledge about the Christian God. The path to eternal life is only for the few elect. Surely, the few that have wisdom, knowledge, and accept Godly instruction are those believers with Christian faith. The N.T. redefines what "the world" ordinarily means by the usage of these terms. These are exclusive to the Christian Cult, which is divisive and anti-human. So anyone with an ounce of empathy and compassion will stop and think about the outcome of such beliefs, that exclude 99.99% of all life that has ever lived upon the face of the earth.

[prove_17]

The glimpse I have of your life here is terribly depressing to me. I don't pity you, but I am glad I do not live beneath the tyrannical rule of an angry god.

 

Mat 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

 

 

Out of curiosity, what was it that your home church did that you disagreed with? My old church lost their building from lack of attendance due to a schism over the verse "My God why hast thou forsaken me?" and its meaning via the trinity. They now meet in a school cafeteria and those who left are attending the more liberal Church of Christ in the area. The constant divisiveness over who was the most correct about everything is what made my mom stop attending. Its a (not the only) big failing of the Church of Christ.

 

This was from an earlier post of mine:

 

Actually, I was taught under the Church of Christ doctrine. When I realized the different interpretations from church to church I decided to study the entire bible myself without any outside commentaries or influences. When I saw the things we were doing wrong according to scriptures,( women speaking in church, being friends with and marrying non-believers, etc.,) I brought these things to the members attention and all I received were excuses. So after about eight years of this, I went out teaching at other congregations and were thrown out of most of them. Now I just make sure my family knows the truth. I'll still discuss it with any reasonable person.

[Guest Net Eng]

I was a Christian.

 

Then I studied the bible and how it came into being.

 

Now I'm not a christian.

 

This is the same story told over and over on this site by many people of different backgrounds and education.

 

How do you know you have the True Bible^TM ?

[prove_17]

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

From your sig.:

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

I noticed your sig., and will comment on it even though you it may fall on deaf ears. When the Bible speaks of God and knowledge, it is not referring to human knowledge. It is referring to knowledge about the Christian God. The path to eternal life is only for the few elect. Surely, the few that have wisdom, knowledge, and accept Godly instruction are those believers with Christian faith. The N.T. redefines what "the world" ordinarily means by the usage of these terms. These are exclusive to the Christian Cult, which is divisive and anti-human. So anyone with an ounce of empathy and compassion will stop and think about the outcome of such beliefs, that exclude 99.99% of all life that has ever lived upon the face of the earth.

 

Divisive, sure!

 

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?(...)

2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

 

Anti-Human!

 

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[bdp]

Post removed 'cuz I'm a tard.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Taking out the bold line(for its reference to catholic), isn't just simply believe and adhering to this, make you a christian.

 

Do you even know what 'catholic' means in this context? Typical smarmy un-educated Xtian.

i am hoping that is sarcasm, because I am not a troll. Look at my about me.

 

But its means universal(how that is used in application is beyond me.

[bdp]

 

 

Taking out the bold line(for its reference to catholic), isn't just simply believe and adhering to this, make you a christian.

 

Do you even know what 'catholic' means in this context? Typical smarmy un-educated Xtian.

i am hoping that is sarcasm, because I am not a troll. Look at my about me.

 

But its means universal(how that is used in application is beyond me.

 

Oh man, my bad - I thought prove wrote that. Sorry Valk, my apologies - I've been in constant 'pissed off' mode lately, guess I need to get a grip on myself here.

[Shyone]

@prove

How powerful is god and his salvation plan, when only a handful of people will enter heaven? More than 90 % go to hell? Maybe satan seems to be much stronger than god. This salvation method is not very effective AND it is cruel for the few people who actually make it into heaven.

Prove, where enters jesus your religion? All this "keeping all laws" sounds more like a jewish version of xianity. If it is all up to you, where is salvation and grace? Where is jesus?

 

Tts 2:11 ¶For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

[2.177] It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts-- these are they who are {rue (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil).

[Shyone]

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

From your sig.:

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

I noticed your sig., and will comment on it even though you it may fall on deaf ears. When the Bible speaks of God and knowledge, it is not referring to human knowledge. It is referring to knowledge about the Christian God. The path to eternal life is only for the few elect. Surely, the few that have wisdom, knowledge, and accept Godly instruction are those believers with Christian faith. The N.T. redefines what "the world" ordinarily means by the usage of these terms. These are exclusive to the Christian Cult, which is divisive and anti-human. So anyone with an ounce of empathy and compassion will stop and think about the outcome of such beliefs, that exclude 99.99% of all life that has ever lived upon the face of the earth.

 

Divisive, sure!

 

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?(...)

2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

 

Anti-Human!

 

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

[2.104] O you who believe! do not say Raina and say Unzurna and listen, and for the unbelievers there is a painful chastisement.

 

[5.44] Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.

 

[85.10] Surely (as for) those who persecute the believing men and the believing women, then do not repent, they shall have the chastisement of hell, and they shall have the chastisement of burning.

 

Repent, submit, save youself - it's not too late!

 

Surely you are wise enough to read the magical words of the Koran and Know they are the Truth! Christianity is folly, and you are hell bound for your unbelief.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Taking out the bold line(for its reference to catholic), isn't just simply believe and adhering to this, make you a christian.

 

Do you even know what 'catholic' means in this context? Typical smarmy un-educated Xtian.

i am hoping that is sarcasm, because I am not a troll. Look at my about me.

 

But its means universal(how that is used in application is beyond me.

 

Oh man, my bad - I thought prove wrote that. Sorry Valk, my apologies - I've been in constant 'pissed off' mode lately, guess I need to get a grip on myself here.

Its all good man, no harm.

[Shyone]

The glimpse I have of your life here is terribly depressing to me. I don't pity you, but I am glad I do not live beneath the tyrannical rule of an angry god.

 

Mat 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

 

[4.135] O you who beljeve! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah's sake, though it may be against your own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do.

 

[22.65] Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except with His permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men.

 

[34.7] And those who disbelieve say: Shall we point out to you a man who informs you that when you are scattered the utmost scattering you shall then be most surely (raised) in (to) a new creation?

[34.8] He has forged a lie against Allah or there is madness in him. Nay! those who do not believe in the hereafter are in torment and in great error.

[Astreja]

So anyone with an ounce of empathy and compassion will stop and think about the outcome of such beliefs, that exclude 99.99% of all life that has ever lived upon the face of the earth.

 

Divisive, sure!

Is that the best you can do, Prove... Just shrug away the idea that your alleged god set things up so that the default afterlife faith is eternal torture?

 

I find your attitude sickening and immoral. There is no excuse for such a thing. NONE. You have nothing to teach us here.

 

And if you ever frighten even one child with tales of hellfire, may life slap you silly at every possible opportunity until it slaps the faith right out of you.

[lunaticheathen]

Prove. Fuck you. You're a stupid, immoral, apathetic assbag.

May you get the god you deserve.

[Michael]

@prove

Could you not just answer and talk like a human being? Why should I talk to someone who has no other voice than the baaaable? It is just impolite to talk to people in this way. Either impolite or just stupid.

So is salvation thru jesus enough or not? And would you please stop answering with bible quotes? To me this book is without any relevance. I rather talk to a human being. If you are not able to have a normal conversation, than ignore this post (as you ignore everything that you do not want to answer!).

And I still wonder why you pop in a ex-xian forum and not a xian one.

[Michael]

@prove

How powerful is god and his salvation plan, when only a handful of people will enter heaven? More than 90 % go to hell? Maybe satan seems to be much stronger than god. This salvation method is not very effective AND it is cruel for the few people who actually make it into heaven.

Prove, where enters jesus your religion? All this "keeping all laws" sounds more like a jewish version of xianity. If it is all up to you, where is salvation and grace? Where is jesus?

 

Tts 2:11 ¶For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

 

Teaching us or expecting from us? Is this teaching process part of your salvation? Can you add anything to the salvation that comes from thr cross? Is the death of jesus not complete? Just let me know what YOU think and feel about it. What is your pov? And NO, the bible is not self explaining.

 

And my last question: Which laws are important and why? If you are asked to keep EVERY law (jesus did not keep every law, because law was made for mankind, not mankind for the law) than the pharisees were right. But jesus hated pharisees, because they were not able to understand and accept salvation and the law. If you are not asked too keep every rule, how can you distinguish between good and bad rules?

[bornagainathiest]

Luk 1:5 ¶There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

No. This is not correct. I asked you to give us worked examples(plural) of Christians (under the new Covenant) living in obedience to Jesus' words and you gave me one that does not apply. You are wrong, Prove.

Now try again.

 

1Pe 2:13 ¶Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

I drive below the speed limit, stop at stop signs, don't cheat on my taxes, etc,.

 

You failed to find the proper passages where it describes how Christians did change their lives. Obedience to human law is not the right answer.

Now try again.

 

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

At work, I do things by the book, work very hard, I don't take breaks or lunch longer than I'm suppose to, I'm not where I'm not suppose to be etc,. The commandments of God are easy to understand and apply to us today.

These actions do not describe the fundamental and absolute changes required of Christians, so that they can know God's will. You simply got that wrong.

So, start over and try again, "True" Christian!

BAA.

[FourDogBrewing]

Repent, submit, save youself - it's not too late!

 

Surely you are wise enough to read the magical words of the Koran and Know they are the Truth! Christianity is folly, and you are hell bound for your unbelief.

 

Well played Shy.

 

I need to study they koran more, looks interesting. I got to live with a muslim family once on the coast of Kenya in Mombasa for two weeks. Did it as a "cultural field study" class for school to get some easy credits. I had to live with them, dress like them, eat their food, go to their worship (as much as I could) in the mosque I washed my hands/face took off my sandals did all of that etc... then was able to observe from the back of the room.

 

It was interesting to say the least, but at the time I was a brainwashed christian so I don't think I got as much out of it as I could have.

[FourDogBrewing]

@prove

Could you not just answer and talk like a human being? Why should I talk to someone who has no other voice than the baaaable? It is just impolite to talk to people in this way. Either impolite or just stupid.

So is salvation thru jesus enough or not? And would you please stop answering with bible quotes? To me this book is without any relevance. I rather talk to a human being. If you are not able to have a normal conversation, than ignore this post (as you ignore everything that you do not want to answer!).

And I still wonder why you pop in a ex-xian forum and not a xian one.

 

Agreed, I haven't pulled out the "don't feed the trolls" images yet ... but really. Just posting random verses and underlining portions is getting old.

 

Also he has been a troll on christian forums as well, at least at one time. What is funny is that he had the exact same format, verses with underlined portions. lol No evolution here! : http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0M5Kg4h7630J:www.churchusatoday.com/ChurchUSAForums/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D40%26t%3D380%26start%3D45+prove_17&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Dagan]

Prove reminds me of a guy I knew who cut off his own hand with an axe because he felt so guilty about masturbating. After all, Jesus said, `And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. `(Matthew 5:30)

 

It is horrible to live in such fear of an omnipotent bogeyman. I hope that someday Prove wakes up and realizes that God is not watching, God does not care and that no God worth serving would want him to live in constant terror.

[Shyone]

Repent, submit, save youself - it's not too late!

 

Surely you are wise enough to read the magical words of the Koran and Know they are the Truth! Christianity is folly, and you are hell bound for your unbelief.

 

Well played Shy.

 

I need to study they koran more, looks interesting. I got to live with a muslim family once on the coast of Kenya in Mombasa for two weeks. Did it as a "cultural field study" class for school to get some easy credits. I had to live with them, dress like them, eat their food, go to their worship (as much as I could) in the mosque I washed my hands/face took off my sandals did all of that etc... then was able to observe from the back of the room.

 

It was interesting to say the least, but at the time I was a brainwashed christian so I don't think I got as much out of it as I could have.

The goal, I hope, is that he sees the magical Bible bullets are ineffective if one does not think the bible is magically inspired. So I fire some Magical bullets from the koran, and they go right over his head. Of course.

 

Perhaps when he understands that the Koran is no more effective on him than the bible is on people who aren't Christian, he might actually make an argument. I suspect, however, that he has no arguments.

 

His entire basis for belief is what he has been told and the writings of humans that have filtered down to him through the people who instructed him.

 

His mother perhaps, or some guy with a poster saying, "Repent, the end is near!"

 

This little foray into unfamiliar territory is perhaps his first exposure to ideas that conflict with his beliefs, but I think he would really be challenged if he actually read some books by Bart Ehrman or Richard Price. Or Dan Barker, or Kenneth Daniels. Well, there are lots of things he might read if he really felt his faith could withstand some intellectually rigorous challenges.

 

I wonder if he has read anything critical of Christianity other than the brief retorts and responses in this forum (or one like it).