Were You Ever A Christian?

[prove_17]

Once you start thinking about this, and ask the question, why is it necessary for ANYONE (not just no 1 - poor little old me) to be tormented for eternity for something which isn't even your fault, and which you had no control over in the first place, for example your own birth

 

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

That didn't answer the question, I don't think. If I'm reading correctly, those who do wrong have wrongs made against them, yes? That is what the verse seems to say. (basically karma: good leads to good, bad leads to bad)

 

So, what does that do for situations outside of your control? That quote is on the repercussions of your actions (deeds). Seems like alisonminnie was asking about damnation for something that is not in your control. Like the fate of unbaptized babies or children who are even too young to understand Christianity dying?

 

You seriously don't answer questions very well. If the answer is there in what you posted, it isn't CLEAR AT ALL.

 

The bible does not say that anyone is going to be punished for something out of their control, like being born. I posted what was relevant.

[Ouroboros]

The bible does not say that anyone is going to be punished for something out of their control, like being born. I posted what was relevant.

How about a person being possessed by a demon, and the demon makes the person do things he really doesn't want to do?

 

Or, in more modern terms, if a person is mentally ill and can't understand the difference between proper or improper behavior, and the person does something we consider evil, will he be punished still?

[centauri]

The bible does not say that anyone is going to be punished for something out of their control, like being born. I posted what was relevant.

Why are you denying a common New Testament teaching?

All humans are stained with the sin of Adam.

The wages of sin is death.

God is supposed to be so holy that he cannot stand any sin in his presence.

Death is a form of punishment and so is eternal banishment from God.

[Ancey]

 

 

That didn't answer the question, I don't think. If I'm reading correctly, those who do wrong have wrongs made against them, yes? That is what the verse seems to say. (basically karma: good leads to good, bad leads to bad)

 

So, what does that do for situations outside of your control? That quote is on the repercussions of your actions (deeds). Seems like alisonminnie was asking about damnation for something that is not in your control. Like the fate of unbaptized babies or children who are even too young to understand Christianity dying?

 

You seriously don't answer questions very well. If the answer is there in what you posted, it isn't CLEAR AT ALL.

 

The bible does not say that anyone is going to be punished for something out of their control, like being born. I posted what was relevant.

 

Well, that's a stretch of relevancy, isn't it?

 

Of course, there are cases of babies being slaughtered for simply living in a village or city of non-believers, never mind the fact that babies don't even grasp the concept of religion yet, and are, indeed, innocent.

 

Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man... (INCLUDING CHILDREN.)

 

Numbers 21:35 So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land.

 

Also, the results of your pregnancy make you unclean (you can't really help that, certainly- baby must come out eventually, and the gender of the baby is uncontrollable, and affects your dirty-ness)

 

Leviticus 12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.

 

So, tell me, is your wife unclean after having a baby? Really?

[prove_17]

How about a person being possessed by a demon, and the demon makes the person do things he really doesn't want to do?

 

Or, in more modern terms, if a person is mentally ill and can't understand the difference between proper or improper behavior, and the person does something we consider evil, will he be punished still?

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

[prove_17]

Well, that's a stretch of relevancy, isn't it?

 

Of course, there are cases of babies being slaughtered for simply living in a village or city of non-believers, never mind the fact that babies don't even grasp the concept of religion yet, and are, indeed, innocent.

 

Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man... (INCLUDING CHILDREN.)

 

Numbers 21:35 So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land.

 

Also, the results of your pregnancy make you unclean (you can't really help that, certainly- baby must come out eventually, and the gender of the baby is uncontrollable, and affects your dirty-ness)

 

Leviticus 12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.

 

So, tell me, is your wife unclean after having a baby? Really?

 

Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hbr 9:16 ¶For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

[Antlerman]

He spoke a few words with his own mouth. It's a start.

[Ouroboros]

How about a person being possessed by a demon, and the demon makes the person do things he really doesn't want to do?

 

Or, in more modern terms, if a person is mentally ill and can't understand the difference between proper or improper behavior, and the person does something we consider evil, will he be punished still?

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

So why do you?

 

In other words, you use that Bible verse as a cop-out, instead of answering the challenge. Typical Chicken-Christian.

 

Besides, you quoted the Bible earlier saying that all men are liars. In other words, you're a liar too.

 

So why should I care for what you're saying? You're a liar by your own admission.

[Antlerman]

Fear be thy name.

[Shyone]

How about a person being possessed by a demon, and the demon makes the person do things he really doesn't want to do?

 

Or, in more modern terms, if a person is mentally ill and can't understand the difference between proper or improper behavior, and the person does something we consider evil, will he be punished still?

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

I think you had better start speaking English, because your "biblical answer" is not only irrelevent to the question, but unbelievably cruel.

 

Taking the question and answer together, you are implying that the mentally ill should be avoided, and not taught, implying that they are going to hell. We don't want strife, so let them suffer.

 

Wow, way to go superman.

[Crazy Donna]

You ask if I was ever a christian. Well, yes I was. In fact, I was a far better christian than you, because I would NEVER have countered a question with this quote.

 

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

Even if someone asked me a stupid question, or a question designed to ridicule me and my beliefs, I still endeavoured to answer it, out of respect for them, and respect for god. This was when I was a believer. My answer might have been, in hindsight, ridiculous, or equally stupid, or uninformed, but I still tried. I took my witnessing seriously.

 

It appears you're just here for spiritual masturbation. You offer nothing except regurgitated bible quotes, and endeavour to be as offensive and insulting as possible. So piss off. Or answer the fucking question. Your choice.

[Ancey]

 

 

Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hbr 9:16 ¶For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

That doesn't seem to answer the question I asked at the end. (if it does, it's a very cryptic and indirect answer, which you seem to be good at)

 

Do you really think your wife is unclean for having a baby? So you don't touch her and you have to purify her for the dirty act of having a child? If she has a girl, she has to be 'purified' for 66 days, and then you must sacrifice a lamb and a sin offering, right? Have you been following this scripture!?

[Overcame Faith]

Another quote for you, Prove 17:

 

There warn't anybody at the church, except maybe a hog or two, for there warn't any lock on the door, and hogs likes a puncheon floor in summer-time because it's cool. If you notice, most folks don't go to church only when they've got to; but a hog is different.

 

Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

Chapter 18.

[Ancey]

Another quote for you, Prove 17:

 

There warn't anybody at the church, except maybe a hog or two, for there warn't any lock on the door, and hogs likes a puncheon floor in summer-time because it's cool. If you notice, most folks don't go to church only when they've got to; but a hog is different.

 

Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

Chapter 18.

 

Here's another quote:

 

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,

Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,

Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,

One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,

One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

 

Lord of the Rings: the Fellowship of the Ring. Book 1. rAmen.

[bornagainathiest]

Luk 1:5 ¶There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

No. This is not correct. I asked you to give us worked examples(plural) of Christians (under the new Covenant) living in obedience to Jesus' words and you gave me one that does not apply. You are wrong, Prove.

Now try again.

 

1Pe 2:13 ¶Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

I drive below the speed limit, stop at stop signs, don't cheat on my taxes, etc,.

 

You failed to find the proper passages where it describes how Christians did change their lives. Obedience to human law is not the right answer.

Now try again.

 

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

At work, I do things by the book, work very hard, I don't take breaks or lunch longer than I'm suppose to, I'm not where I'm not suppose to be etc,. The commandments of God are easy to understand and apply to us today.

These actions do not describe the fundamental and absolute changes required of Christians, so that they can know God's will. You simply got that wrong.

So, start over and try again, "True" Christian!

BAA.

 

 

Still waiting, Prove.

[bornagainathiest]

@prove

And do you really believe, that your book can explain itself?

 

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

More questions for you, Prove.

Real simple ones this time.

 

What did the Apostle Paul consider to be 'scripture', when he wrote this letter to Timothy? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

What did Jesus of Nazareth consider to be scripture? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

What did the Apostle Peter consider to be scripture? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

What did the Apostle John consider to be scripture? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

What did the Apostle James consider to be scripture? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

What did the Apostle Luke consider to be scripture? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

What did the Apostle Mark consider to be scripture? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

What did the Apostle Matthew consider to be scripture? (Please say which part of the Bible he would have known as 'scripture'.)

 

Since you seem to like one line replies, I've tailored all the above questions to have exactly the same answer - so if you answer one correctly, you'll answer all correctly... ...which you can easily do with a one-line response.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[bornagainathiest]

Oh btw, Prove.

 

If you want to hit me with a '2 Tim 2:23', because you can't handle my questions, that's fine. I can take a hint. But if you continue to ignore me....

 

BAA.

[TheUnknown]

That didn't answer the question, I don't think. If I'm reading correctly, those who do wrong have wrongs made against them, yes? That is what the verse seems to say. (basically karma: good leads to good, bad leads to bad)

 

So, what does that do for situations outside of your control? That quote is on the repercussions of your actions (deeds). Seems like alisonminnie was asking about damnation for something that is not in your control. Like the fate of unbaptized babies or children who are even too young to understand Christianity dying?

 

You seriously don't answer questions very well. If the answer is there in what you posted, it isn't CLEAR AT ALL.

 

You are quite correct, Ancey, he not only didn't answer the question, but gave an answer which I more or less anticipated or expected, I'm beginning to think another poster in another thread that said it could be a bible spambot could be correct, and that it just generates responses at random, although I'm surprised my post got the answer as there were a few posts made between mine and the last post the spambot made, it's quite ironic that christians say God doesn't want robots, yet the vast majority of their responses sound robotic, and eerily like a bunch of stepfordized clones

 

What I posted included unbaptized babies and children too young to understand christianity dying, although the bible doesn't support the age of accountability, many christians will say they automatically go to heaven, which includes a loophole and paradox (many will agree that it's a vile and monstrous concept that children and babies would go to hell, as well as the mentally handicapped), the paradox created would then be, why not let only the "saved" live beyond the age of accountability, or even let a person that is hell bound come into existence in the first place, I mean we ALL came into this world as babies, what is even worse is that this God is supposed to be all knowing and all loving and knew the outcome before this even started on the GOE, which would mean that if christianity were true, this life is a farce and cruel sham and we are just going through the motions like puppets on a string

 

Christians like to tell people they are scum and worthy of damnation, the question I asked (which I'm sure many of the others had asked before)

 

Who or what put us in a position to even be in such a predicament in the first place

 

BTW this is the second time, I've joined this forum, I did have an account before but it got deleted somehow, the difference is the first time I joined the forum as a christian, this time I didn't, although I'm not an atheist (I do believe there is something out there), I came to the realization I wasn't a christian about a year ago, the reason being I'd rather atheism be true, than the ghastly prospect of a hateful sadistic psychotic megalomaniac waiting to torch most of us, like the majority of christians claim, which no matter how it's sugarcoated, is the distinct message one gets

[Shyone]

BTW this is the second time, I've joined this forum, I did have an account before but it got deleted somehow, the difference is the first time I joined the forum as a christian, this time I didn't, although I'm not an atheist (I do believe there is something out there), I came to the realization I wasn't a christian about a year ago, the reason being I'd rather atheism be true, than the ghastly prospect of a hateful sadistic psychotic megalomaniac waiting to torch most of us, like the majority of christians claim, which no matter how it's sugarcoated, is the distinct message one gets

I never saw it as a matter of what I wanted or even believed, but rather what was real and true. If the FSM is out there, and it can be proved, then I'm sold. Same for anything no matter how improbable.

 

I won't stoop to believing solely based on evidence that is faulty. All evidence must be taken as part of a whole.

 

Oh, and FWIW, if there happened to be a sadistic psychotic megalomaniac waiting to torch me, so be it. I'll believe it when I see it, but I don't worship or love because of such threats as these - even from alien life forms that threaten to torture me for all eternity.

[OnceConvinced]

The bible does not say that anyone is going to be punished for something out of their control, like being born. I posted what was relevant.

Why are you denying a common New Testament teaching?

All humans are stained with the sin of Adam.

The wages of sin is death.

God is supposed to be so holy that he cannot stand any sin in his presence.

Death is a form of punishment and so is eternal banishment from God.

 

You forgot to quote scripture directly. Old Prove_17 believes that the words of the bible have supernatural powers and that it has more power than using one's brain and answering questions rationally.

 

(Of course we all know that if the bible did have supernatural power, this website wouldn't exist because there would be no ex-christians. The words of the bible would have ensured that we remained believers.)

[OnceConvinced]

How about a person being possessed by a demon, and the demon makes the person do things he really doesn't want to do?

 

Or, in more modern terms, if a person is mentally ill and can't understand the difference between proper or improper behavior, and the person does something we consider evil, will he be punished still?

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

And who gets to determine what questions are foolish. You? And how is anyone supposed to become learned if their questions are not answered? To refuse to answer a question due to someone being unlearned shows a petty and foolish attitude in itself and clearly shows that that scripture is not inspired by God, but by an intolerent and arrogant human being.

 

You have no right to judge people here, Prove_17 (as the bible says) and you also must obey this scripture directed you by God:

 

1 Peter 3:15 Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you to explain the hope you have.

 

Please explain how your scripture overules Peter's.

 

Also take into account these scriptures:

 

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person. (is referring to someone as foolish or unlearned, graceful and seasoned with salt, or is it insulting and arrogant?)

 

Some other scriptures you could do with reading:

 

Pro 3:7

Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.

 

Pro 11:12

A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue.

 

Pro 16:5

The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

 

Pro 18:6

A fool's lips bring him strife, and his mouth invites a beating.

 

Pro 26:12

Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

[prove_17]

How about a person being possessed by a demon, and the demon makes the person do things he really doesn't want to do?

 

Or, in more modern terms, if a person is mentally ill and can't understand the difference between proper or improper behavior, and the person does something we consider evil, will he be punished still?

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

I think you had better start speaking English, because your "biblical answer" is not only irrelevent to the question, but unbelievably cruel.

 

Taking the question and answer together, you are implying that the mentally ill should be avoided, and not taught, implying that they are going to hell. We don't want strife, so let them suffer.

 

Wow, way to go superman.

 

"unlearned" means that I haven't been taught on the subject so I am to avoid it.

[Ancey]

 

 

"unlearned" means that I haven't been taught on the subject so I am to avoid it.

 

So... You feel you must avoid all the hard questions we give you because your bible doesn't address them?

 

But those hard questions are still there! Why has your bible failed to address them! (doesn't that mean it doesn't have all the answers??)

 

Wow. Just wow.

[godlessgrrl]

"unlearned" means that I haven't been taught on the subject so I am to avoid it.

 

That's not what the Bible verse itself says, though. It says: Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. NIV In context here. Koine interlinear available here (.pdf format).

 

The verse isn't about you. The translation is not "avoid arguments you don't know anything about". You are not the object of the verb in the sentence, "insipid arguments" are.

 

If you're to avoid subjects about which you know nothing, then why are you talking about the Bible?

[Antlerman]

How about a person being possessed by a demon, and the demon makes the person do things he really doesn't want to do?

 

Or, in more modern terms, if a person is mentally ill and can't understand the difference between proper or improper behavior, and the person does something we consider evil, will he be punished still?

 

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

I think you had better start speaking English, because your "biblical answer" is not only irrelevent to the question, but unbelievably cruel.

 

Taking the question and answer together, you are implying that the mentally ill should be avoided, and not taught, implying that they are going to hell. We don't want strife, so let them suffer.

 

Wow, way to go superman.

 

"unlearned" means that I haven't been taught on the subject so I am to avoid it.

You misunderstand what that means. It means don't respond to ignorant questions. Not that you should avoid discussion about something that is beyond your current grasp. You are unlearned, that much is clear but you can be educated if you free yourself from the grip of fear that prevents you from living.