Were You Ever A Christian?

[bornagainathiest]

Please give us the 'true' understanding of what Romans 12: 1 & 2 means and how Christians should apply it.

Thanks.

BAA.

 

"Live the way God wants you to live and be an example."

So how does God want all Christians to live?

C'mon! Specifics please. Details. Worked examples.

These things are there in the Bible. You should be able to quote chapter and verse on this.

What actions should a Christian do to prove the good, acceptable and perfect will of God?

What actions did you, as a Christian, do to prove the good, acceptable and perfect will of God?

You should also be able to provide examples from non-Biblical history of Christians who did these things too.

Well?

BAA.

 

Still waiting, Prove.

 

If you really are a 'true' Christian you will have already done these things and then built upon them as you grew in Christ. This is the basic, foundational work that all able Christians are commanded to do. Therefore you will have done it.

 

Now, please tell us what these commands are and how Christians should apply them in their lives to prove God's good, acceptable and perfect will.

Please show us the chapter and verse where Christians did these things.

Please tell us how you did these things, citing specific examples, giving details and worked examples.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

p.s.

I'm a reasonable man. You'll note that I've made it a bit easier for you by dropping the requirement for you to provide examples from non-Biblical history. Ok?

[Legion]

Yes, I was a Christian. I almost said, "unfortunately." But I still think the Golded Rule is a fairly reliable moral guide.

[Skankboy]

I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

Then your faith is based on fear and is empty...

[Ouroboros]

I am where TRUTH has lead me.

You are lying.

[Thackerie]

I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

Then your faith is based on fear and is empty...

 

True. This one must be a truly miserable person, wasting the only life he'll ever have living in fear of his "loving" god tormenting him for eternity. I'd almost feel sorry for him (if he wasn't so arrogant, judgmental and willfully deluded).

 

And he seems to think he can drag any of us back into that horrible mindset? EWWWWWWWWW! No thanks!

[FourDogBrewing]

we didn't leave the confines of the bible

 

Then what is the point? My previous post was that you need to examine your source, the bible. If you don't leave the confines of the source ... then how do you know the veracity of the document? There is no logic in this approach unless you are scared of the consequences of actually doing the research.

 

I believe the difference between me and a lot of other people is that I'm not afraid of the truth.

 

If this is true, then you have no problem doing what I have already suggested and actually researching your source. Since you are not afraid of the truth your research will only confirm what you know and strengthen your belief, correct?

 

I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

 

Since this is your goal, (which makes perfect sense) then you owe it to yourself (and your family) to do your homework as it were, and objectively research the document you are staking your eternal life in. This is your eternal soul after all, don't do a half-hearted job.

 

I challenge you to take up my suggestions seriously. You owe it to yourself to walk this path, don't miss this opportunity out of fear, willful ignorance, or laziness.

 

"Knowledge is the antidote to fear."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Shyone]

If I do what HE says, I get a reward. If I don't do what HE says, I get punished.

 

I believe the difference between me and a lot of other people is that I'm not afraid of the truth. I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

You are pathetic, but that's your choice.

 

What a merciful god you believe in. Punishment by being tormented for all eternity? That's not a religion. It's a protection racket.

 

One day, after you have had the opportunity to consider the goodness of people that are not Christian, you may understand that we all have the same fate. Schemes that attempt to make people Christian by threatening them are not any better than the Muslim or Mormon threats, and the motivation to do good should come from within, not by threats of pain.

 

Christianity is basically selfish. Your motivation is self-interest. Try being human instead and doing some good without any expectation of reward.

[lunaticheathen]

I believe the difference between me and a lot of other people is that I'm not afraid of the truth. I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

I would strongly counter that you are afraid. "I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity," is a blatant admission that you are driven by FEAR. And being driven by FEAR, it is no wonder you cannot hear the voice of your heart. It is drowned out by your terror of punishment by the angry parent in the sky.

 

I have no belief in any hell, and yet my heart is drawn toward Love. I have no other motive than desire for that. There is no fear. What is it your own Bible says? "Perfect Love casts out all fear". But do you understand that?

 

Love transcends your beliefs.

 

Bingo. "I'm not afraid, but I better not fry forever!" Duh, that's fear. Christianity is a faith built on FEAR. No wonder I felt spiritually dead while trying to be a fundie Baptist.

[sumluvlifilth]

No, I worshipped the Lord of Coffee and Ciggarettes, who by the way demands all of your caffine and Nicotine! Anyone willing to obey the call may send all of their coffee and ciggarettes to me and I'll see to it he gets it personally

[sumluvlifilth]

Christianity is basically selfish. Your motivation is self-interest. Try being human instead and doing some good without any expectation of reward.

 

Right on! No Christian is good because they love any sort of god, they try to be good to avoid hell. That's a lot of the reason I left it.

[prove_17]

I don't believe you think the rest of the Bible is as easy and clear to understand as that verse, and the fact that you had to leave your home church is evidence of this. You in fact struggle a great deal with it. You wish to convince others of it, to validate to yourself. Am I right?

 

I believe that the majority of the bible is as easy as that example. The fact is, my home church didn't want to obey what it says and that's the only reason I left.

 

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

 

I believe the difference between me and a lot of other people is that I'm not afraid of the truth. I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity.

I would strongly counter that you are afraid. "I'll do whatever it takes to keep from being tormented the rest of eternity," is a blatant admission that you are driven by FEAR. And being driven by FEAR, it is no wonder you cannot hear the voice of your heart. It is drowned out by your terror of punishment by the angry parent in the sky.

 

I have no belief in any hell, and yet my heart is drawn toward Love. I have no other motive than desire for that. There is no fear. What is it your own Bible says? "Perfect Love casts out all fear". But do you understand that?

Love transcends your beliefs.

 

You answered the question. If I do what HE says, I have no fear of hell. Just like my child would have no fear of a spanking when they've done what I've told them to do.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

[Ancey]

Prove_17, you're really not gonna convert people here, you know that? You seriously would have better luck on a Christian Forum- if you say you know no true Christians, at least they take the bible as true there.

 

Why bug us? You can go bug Pagans, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, just about anybody but you. Lots of people here have read the entire bible, several times, and have found it to be bull, nonsensical, illogical, and overall, false on most accounts.

 

btw, there is another criteria for those in the assembly of 'the lord'.

 

Deuteronomy 23:1 ESV

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

 

It's what the bible says, hope no one gets castrated... >.>

[prove_17]

So how does God want all Christians to live?

C'mon! Specifics please. Details. Worked examples.

Luk 1:5 ¶There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

1Pe 2:13 ¶Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

 

I drive below the speed limit, stop at stop signs, don't cheat on my taxes, etc,.

 

 

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

 

At work, I do things by the book, work very hard, I don't take breaks or lunch longer than I'm suppose to, I'm not where I'm not suppose to be etc,. The commandments of God are easy to understand and apply to us today.

[Shyone]

 

You answered the question. If I do what HE says, I have no fear of hell. Just like my child would have no fear of a spanking when they've done what I've told them to do.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

I can guarantee you aren't doing everything that is specified as necessary to do in the bible. It is impossible. You know it - you are a sinner, imperfect in the eyes of the LORD!

 

For one thing, you should live in constant fear. Second, you should not own a computer, much less purchase electricity or a place to store your earthly belongings. You know that verse, right?

 

Matt 19:21. Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22. When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

 

You can guess which one YOU are in this verse. But, you know, I'd like to see you wiggle and wiggle and squirm as you deftly navigate yourself out of this bit of biblical mandate. Do you need further evidence that you are wrong?

 

Hypocrite.

 

Matt. 7

3. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

4. How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

5. You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

 

2 Chron 19:9. He gave them these orders: "You must serve faithfully and wholeheartedly in the fear of the LORD.

 

Job 28:28. And he said to man, `The fear of the Lord--that is wisdom

 

Psalms 34:9. Fear the LORD, you his saints, for those who fear him lack nothing.

10. The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the LORD lack no good thing.

11. Come, my children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

 

Acts 9:31. Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.

 

Incidentally, if you think that you're just fine studying with books that cost money in a school that cost money, consider that the advice to give everything was not an idle threat:

 

Acts 5

1. Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property.

2. With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.

 

The gate to heaven is narrow. And you are fat with wealth. Your arrogance has swollen your head so big that it won't fit through the gate.

[Ancey]

Oh, don't forget that one verse, Shyone (can't remember where it's from).

 

"It is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven."

[prove_17]

Then what is the point? My previous post was that you need to examine your source, the bible. If you don't leave the confines of the source ... then how do you know the veracity of the document? There is no logic in this approach unless you are scared of the consequences of actually doing the research.

 

If this is true, then you have no problem doing what I have already suggested and actually researching your source. Since you are not afraid of the truth your research will only confirm what you know and strengthen your belief, correct?

 

Since this is your goal, (which makes perfect sense) then you owe it to yourself (and your family) to do your homework as it were, and objectively research the document you are staking your eternal life in. This is your eternal soul after all, don't do a half-hearted job.

 

I challenge you to take up my suggestions seriously. You owe it to yourself to walk this path, don't miss this opportunity out of fear, willful ignorance, or laziness.

 

"Knowledge is the antidote to fear."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

What better path could I be on? (rhetorical)

[Shyone]

Oh, don't forget that one verse, Shyone (can't remember where it's from).

 

"It is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven."

That's the one I was thinking about, but there are others that say that only a few will be allowed into heaven.

 

A few of the impossible criteria are given just after the beatitudes:

 

Matt. 5:20. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The verses following have some rather strict criteria - like don't get angry, don't look at women, and don't imply that someone else is foolish.

 

Every hypocritical evangelist manages to wiggle out of their responsibility to get rid of their stuff

 

Matt. 6:24. "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

 

"Oh, but I'm only making money so that I can serve the Lord! I need nice clothes, and I need to eat and drink lest I die."

 

Matt. 6:31. So do not worry, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we wear?'

32. For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.

 

Matt. 7:13. "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

14. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

How many times did Jesus say something like this:

 

Luke 18:18. A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

19. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

20. You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "

21. "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

22. When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

[Mike D]

At work, I do things by the book, work very hard, I don't take breaks or lunch longer than I'm suppose to, I'm not where I'm not suppose to be etc,.

You would make a terrible entrepreneur.

 

Christianity is all about conformity, falling in line and doing what you are told. It's perfect for beta's.

[Michael]

@prove

How powerful is god and his salvation plan, when only a handful of people will enter heaven? More than 90 % go to hell? Maybe satan seems to be much stronger than god. This salvation method is not very effective AND it is cruel for the few people who actually make it into heaven.

Prove, where enters jesus your religion? All this "keeping all laws" sounds more like a jewish version of xianity. If it is all up to you, where is salvation and grace? Where is jesus?

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

The glimpse I have of your life here is terribly depressing to me. I don't pity you, but I am glad I do not live beneath the tyrannical rule of an angry god.

 

Out of curiosity, what was it that your home church did that you disagreed with? My old church lost their building from lack of attendance due to a schism over the verse "My God why hast thou forsaken me?" and its meaning via the trinity. They now meet in a school cafeteria and those who left are attending the more liberal Church of Christ in the area. The constant divisiveness over who was the most correct about everything is what made my mom stop attending. Its a (not the only) big failing of the Church of Christ.

[bornagainathiest]

So how does God want all Christians to live?

C'mon! Specifics please. Details. Worked examples.

Luk 1:5 ¶There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

No. This is not correct.

I am talking about how every able Christian should apply the words of Jesus Christ - who is the living fulfillment of ALL the Lord's commandments and ordinances.

This passage refers to a time before Jesus was born. What these people did in their lives does not apply to you or to every other Christian. They were blameless under the Old Covenant, but you are not under the this - if you are a 'True' Christian you are under Christ's New Covenant and nothing else. If you were a 'True' Christian you would have understood what you are and which Covenant you are under.

 

I asked you to give us worked examples(plural) of Christians (under the new Covenant) living in obedience to Jesus' words and you gave me one that does not apply. You are wrong, Prove.

 

1Pe 2:13 ¶Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

 

I drive below the speed limit, stop at stop signs, don't cheat on my taxes, etc,.

You are correct, that Christian's should submit themselves, as described above.

 

But this is not how Jesus commanded all Christians to change their lives.

Following a law or an ordinance is not actively changing your life in the ways Jesus commanded. That is just passively accepting whatever applies to you. You haven't made any effort to change yourself, you are simply letting your life be affected by those laws that apply to you.

 

Read Romans 12: 1 & 2 again. "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

If you simply obey all laws and ordinances, you are doing right, as 1 Peter 2: 13 says. But that is not ALL you should do as a Christian. That is the not even the bare minimum. You must change yourself. Then, you will be able to test and approve God's good, pleasing and perfect will.

 

You failed to find the proper passages where it describes how Christians did change their lives. The ones describing how they didn't conform to the pattern of the world they were living in. The ones describing how they were transformed by the renewing of their minds. These Christians were able to know God's will, because they'd done as Jesus commanded them - not by submitting themselves to man's ordinances.

 

The lesson here is quite plain. Knowing God's will is more than energetically obeying man's laws and ordinances. You have to change yourself in the proper way to know God's will. Obedience to human law is not the right answer.

 

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

 

At work, I do things by the book, work very hard, I don't take breaks or lunch longer than I'm suppose to, I'm not where I'm not suppose to be etc,. The commandments of God are easy to understand and apply to us today.

 

Once again, correct. But not enough.

 

A non-Christian can do these things too. These actions do not describe the fundamental and absolute changes required of Christians, so that they can know God's will. The changes that the Bible describes are not solely to do with obedience to laws and ordinances. The kind of obedience you have described so far has very little to do with the life-changing transformation Jesus is asking of you, the kind described to the Romans by the Apostle Paul.

 

You'll note Prove, that I'm not talking about changes that God makes to you via the power of the Holy Spirit. No. These are changes that come from yourself - because you want to please God and know His will. You are the agent and the driving force behind these life-changes, not God. The effort you put in to make these changes has the effect of disciplining you and making you fit to know God's will. That's what a disciple is - one who is disciplined.

That's why Jesus' commission (Matthew 28: 16 -20) is... "to go out and make DISCIPLES of all nations..." Disciples. Those who are disciplined. Those who have disciplined themselves. Those who have made themselves ready to know God's will.

 

Look closely at the order of Jesus' words, specifically verse 20. "...and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Do you see it?

 

Obedience to Jesus' commandments comes after the making of disciples. Discipline first, obedience after. Got that?

 

So, I'll repeat my question to you.

How have you changed your life (disciplined yourself) so that you can know God's will? Specifics. Details. Worked examples.

 

There's no details or specifics or worked examples about your life to be found in the Bible, so there's no point quoting anything from it, saying that you've done this or that. We've covered your take on obedience and found it lacking. The example you gave from scripture of Christians changing their lives and disciplining themselves in the process did not apply. You simply got that wrong.

 

So, start over and try again, "True" Christian!

 

BAA.

 

[OnceConvinced]

Seeing as we're talking about what makes a true Christian, I'd also like to add in some other requirements here that God tells us we must do:

 

You must do works:

 

James 2: 18-25

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

 

2 Corinthians 5:10:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

 

Mat 25:41-43 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'

 

 

You must keep his commandments:

 

1 John 2:4

The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

 

You must be chosen:

 

Matthew 22:14: For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

 

Ephesians 1:3-6

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

 

 

This makes it very difficult for anyone to claim to be a true Christian. There is no real way of knowing whether you are chosen rather than called.

 

You must be baptised:

 

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

 

You must take communion:

 

John 6:53-54:

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

 

 

You cannot keep on sinning (and you must love your brother):

 

1Jo 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

 

 

This here is the biggie, because it's pretty much saying a true Christian can't sin. It's impossible. So if any Christian sins, then that's enough proof that they're not really a true Christian at all.

 

1Jo 3:9-10 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

We cannot continue in sin and expect to be saved (Hebrews 3:12-14, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-20, Hebrews 10:23-31). We are saved while sinners, but that salvation is not apart from repentance (Acts 2:38, Acts 17:30-31, Acts 11:18, Luke 13:3, 2 Peter 3:9). We have to walk in the light as He is in the light if we expect the blood of Jesus to continually cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:5-2:6).

 

And finally...

 

Believing in Christ is not enough:

 

Matthew: 7: 21-24

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

Matthew 25:31-46 tells us that that goats are going to hell based on what they didn't do, not on what they did.

 

Jesus said himself that love your neighbor as yourself was the greatest commandment, not believe in god or burn in hell. In Mark 10:45, Jesus even says he doesn't desire worship and came to serve others "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

 

And Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:13 that love is greater than faith : And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Antlerman]

The glimpse I have of your life here is terribly depressing to me. I don't pity you, but I am glad I do not live beneath the tyrannical rule of an angry god.

Yes, I'm getting a picture of just what Christianity is to this young person. It's not freedom, but oppression. In all the years I've been on this site, and all the many Christians we have encountered, he is probably the best example of Legalism Incarnate that I have ever seen. So much so, that even his legalistic church was not legalistic enough for him!

 

Everything I said about love, etc, hit ears of stone. No penetration at all. No discussion. No comprehension. Not exposing himself to any other thoughts but his own within his religious peers, is a way to ensure no challenges are presented that may upset that self-created, legalistic edifice that guarantees his righteousness to save him from the ever-watchful Punisher judging him from the sky.

 

There is nothing spiritual in anything this person says. No light, no wisdom, no love, no compassion, no understanding, and no truth. I hear instead the broken expressions of a mind grasped by FEAR, in the sense of TERROR, not in the sense of 'respect' as in the bible verses he quoted to support his Legalism. I do pity him, and can only hope that something inside him can break through his phobias of life which take expression in his deliberately selected set of religious symbols.

[Ancey]

 

Yes, I'm getting a picture of just what Christianity is to this young person. It's not freedom, but oppression. In all the years I've been on this site, and all the many Christians we have encountered, he is probably the best example of Legalism Incarnate that I have ever seen. So much so, that even his legalistic church was not legalistic enough for him!

 

Everything I said about love, etc, hit ears of stone. No penetration at all. No discussion. No comprehension. Not exposing himself to any other thoughts but his own within his religious peers, is a way to ensure no challenges are presented that may upset that self-created, legalistic edifice that guarantees his righteousness to save him from the ever-watchful Punisher judging him from the sky.

 

There is nothing spiritual in anything this person says. No light, no wisdom, no love, no compassion, no understanding, and no truth. I hear instead the broken expressions of a mind grasped by FEAR, in the sense of TERROR, not in the sense of 'respect' as in the bible verses he quoted to support his Legalism. I do pity him, and can only hope that something inside him can break through his phobias of life which take expression in his deliberately selected set of religious symbols.

 

I seriously do applaud you, Antlerman, for your insight here.

 

Prove_17 gives no personality and no character in any of his words, unlike any of the Christians who frequent the site. It's almost inhuman, the way Prove acts, so much he won't even give anything to us outside of bible verses and how well he claims to follow them.

[FourDogBrewing]

Everything I said about love, etc, hit ears of stone. No penetration at all. No discussion. No comprehension. Not exposing himself to any other thoughts but his own within his religious peers, is a way to ensure no challenges are presented that may upset that self-created, legalistic edifice that guarantees his righteousness to save him from the ever-watchful Punisher judging him from the sky.

 

Very insightful post, this part resonates with me, I feel it is spot on. Prove is a one way street.