Get Your Prayers Answered Now!!!

[Jubilant]

God has not deserted you. It's the other way round. It's very easy to lose faith:

 

Typical response, now lets break things down a bit more into something simple that hopefully even you can understand....

 

No answer. Bye.

If I am in a loving relationship with someone and ask them a question or talk to them from the heart and they do not answer me for days, months or years...I've stuck around too long. That is a total and complete ONE-SIDED relationship. Shouldn't an all-loving, omni-potent deity be able to love more than a mere human? Shouldn't an all-loving, omni-potent deity be capable of giving a more clear and concise answer no matter what the answer is...moreso than a mere human?

 

 

Prayed long enough. Byee.

 

So? If I continually spoke to my husband and he never spoke back when I sincerely needed help, he turned his back on me. He wouldn't deserve my pleas anymore, if there is a god then it doesn't deserve my pleas anymore either.

 

Prayed desperately, no answer. Byeeee.

If I desperately asked my husband for some sign(s) that he loved me or I'd leave and he in turn didn't show me any signs of love or that he was in the relationship too...damn right I'd leave. Shouldn't an all-loving, omni-potent deity be able to comfort and compassion more than a mere human?

 

No proof. Byeeeee.

 

If I was given an investment opportunity and after YEARS of sticking with the investment (in the case of Christianity both time and money and MIND) there was no proof of growth. I'd leave. Shouldn't one expect better from an ALL-LOVING, omni-potent deity?

 

Why my life so miserable? Why me? Byeee.

Actually, when I was a sucker, I mean Christian and I was miserable I never blamed God or asked "why me"? I always thought bad things were a result of my action/inaction and thanked god for my problems because they gave me a chance to grow. I then sought help via prayer, the bible, other believers, etc. to help me find what I should do.

 

Why did you not fix the world? Byeeee.

 

No, thats easy, there isn't a god to fix the world and if there is...it could give a rats ass about life on earth and its inhabitants.

 

Why are you all-knowing but do not know what to give me? Byeeeee.

Nope, I wasn't a name-it and claim-it Christian, but I was all about seeking a relationship and either there is no god, or if your god exists it is an asshole, or there is a god and it doesn't give a shit about anyone.

 

Have faith. It's not too late for you. It's never too late for any one.

 

I have faith...in myself and I've never been happier.

[IAm_Lucifer]

Does anyone else feel like pulling their own hair out after reading Pug's posts?

 

 

The major verses about prayer I can think off the top of my head make a bold but clear statement. You WILL receive what you ask for. Remember that part about moving mountains... If you believe in me, you will receive anything you ask for, etc, etc.

 

Christians have moved into a different position because this claim by "Jesus" is obviously untrue. They preach that Prayers are answered. This is very different to what the bible teaches. Yes is an answer, no is an answer. So in effect, if you pray for something but it doesn't happen God still answered your prayer.

 

This is just a way to overlook a simple fact. Praying does absolutely nothing.

[Lycorth]

woo hoo brilliant deduction Einstein... now can we get back to the main program... which is... aah, there's no main program. Life just is... enjoy.

 

Heh - typical Xian attitude. An unbeliever points out his reasons for disbelief, refutes arguments made by his opponent (rather politely, mind you) and then the Xian gets arrogant and snotty.

 

Let's see, puggie says there's a god. That god made some promises, rather clearly stated in a book about said god, and when people try to follow through, getting absolutely nothing in return that was promised, puggie says that god still exists but rather does things his own way.

 

In other words, it doesn't matter what was promised, Gawd doesn't really have to do what he promised, 'cuz he's Gawd and he can be an asshole if he wants. It doesn't matter that humans who break promises are considered liars, when a god does it, it's a-ok.

 

And all of Vixen's points are quite valid. I have the same points to offer myself, and I'm sure dozens of folks here can, too. We were faltering in our faith, we wanted to believe, we needed divine validation, we prayed and got nothing. Jebus said we'd get what we asked for, and we really trusted him on that, but we got nothing. So either Jebus is a liar or he doesn't exist.

 

That's called deductive reasoning, puggie. Any five year-old can do it. In your heart, you know there's no god but you insist on being the "rebel" and being different, stamping your feet and insisting "there is too a god" despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

Pug, stop being a dumb ass and face facts. Your demented monster of a god does not exist, and one of the ways to prove it is to call him out on a promise he made.

 

No answers means no god, dude. Deal with it. No god.

 

This is for you, and I can't think of a more deserving winner today:

 

 

Retard

[Dhampir]

Apologies, but i was not questioning your particular intelligence or knowledge. I'm questioning every human being's intellect and humility. We humans (me included), with our linear, sometimes naive, mind we think we are all-knowing and we gleefully we apply it to God as we understand it. We are limited. We are so limited.

This is a misapprehension. No one thinks they're all-knowing. Like Varokhar said, everyone has access to a natural abilty for deductive reasoning. I have looked at the evidence, that conclusion is the only reasonable one that exists as far as I can tell, whereas you assume a conclusion, assuming the absolute correctness of this conclusion you've arrived at only through the reading of a book which proposes it, and your desire for it to be right. Consequently, you only look to the evidence that seems to point in your favor, and assume that there absolutely must be evidence that further supports you, which is why you say things like that our drawing the conclusions we have is vanity, that we are letting our 'limited' knowledge master us, and make us proud and whatnot.

 

Its funny though, that you would say that. That statement is never applied by christians to themselves or other christians. You should realize that your logic is the same as mine; what vanity is it to assume that you know deep down that there is DEFINITELY something that will bear you out, and that we are somehow wrong for not seeing that?

For example: You can't see "electricity" but you can prove it exists. So, you gloat. For those who can't see, feel or prove God, what do they do? I don't know, what do they do?

Electricity can be percieved in a number of ways. It can be seen under the right circumstances, it can be felt, and it can be heard. Electricity is not something that requires a belief in it to exist, and it is something that can be proved regardless of what a person believes about it.

 

It looks like you are deflecting as well. You don't give answers for the questions posed, so much as you say that we simply can't understand, when realistically, you don't understand any better than us.

[Ramen666]

So, how about it Pug, why werent my desperate prayers to keep my faith answered? You cant say that my prayer was answered becuase it'll just take time. Oh no, not now. I've blaphemed the holy spirit. Too late for me. Your all loving, all knowing god deserted me when I was begging for him to shore up my faith. Now I'm lost forever. Sow how about it Pug?

 

Dear, dear Vixen,

 

How now what? Why your desperate prayers to keep your faith were not answered?

 

God has not deserted you. It's the other way round. It's very easy to lose faith:

 

 

No answer. Bye.

 

Prayed long enough. Byee.

 

Prayed desperately, no answer. Byeeee.

 

No proof. Byeeeee.

 

Why my life so miserable? Why me? Byeee.

 

Why did you not fix the world? Byeeee.

 

Why are you all-knowing but do not know what to give me? Byeeeee.

 

 

 

Have faith. It's not too late for you. It's never too late for any one.

 

 

 

So how?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why are you being a snotty Christian now, I have noticed you are becoming more aggressive in an arrogant way. I know this post was not directed to me but I have to comment on how you answered that. That is down right rude and you are now insulting us because we turned away from God. This is vary typical for someone like you. Anyway I don't know why you Christians just can't piss off and leave us alone and always try to violate our rights. I don't need prayer to live in life prayer is just psychological thing. Go ahead pray if it makes you feel better about yourself but in the end its the same chances,

 

Have faith! HAVE FAITH! Is all you can say that is a load of crap. When you pray for someone to please surrive cancer and they die. What faith is there left to be on. I am not saying one or two prayers in my life never got answered. NONE OF THEM! They you are being vary sarcastic when we are debating poltily and acting like a spoiled brat. Faith is what keeps Christianity in balace it is what keeps people in line. If they see something is wrong, no prayers answered or corrput Church. Faith is believing in something you know is not true.

 

Now on the what I have to say about my previous post. Why did you cherry pick my post when you quoted it? You took out a lot of stuff went off and went ranting about how love selfish. Now you are saying prayers have rules " Can't be selfish" Then in the end there is no point in asking God for nothing because in any way you will twist it saying its selfish and we are wrong. This time wake up Pug you are wrong and stop acting like a child. You are like a brat " God exsists because I say he does" That is idiotic and stupid use logic and reason why didn't God answer our prayers? The people in the Twin Tower....wait it collasped on them killing them...good God huh.

[Open_Minded]

Let's review - shall we -

 

On September 30th, 2005 (Over a year ago) Fwee started this thread. It was a simple request - actually - take our prayer requests and present them before Almighty God™ in such a way as to have them answered for us?

 

Since then there have been many requests, beginning with Fwee's request of healings for many members of his family and Alice's request of safe homes for 14 children under her supervision as a social worker.

 

There were many other prayer requests as well - the one that stands out in my mind is Alice's request for her 14 children. What child doesn't deserve a save and loving home life?

 

Anyway - time went on and Pug's heartfelt (I assume they were heartfelt) prayers for Alice's children - and his prayers for everyone else who had request - did not bear any fruit.

 

Pug disappears for a very long time - with occasional drop-ins.

 

And now he's back again - for awhile I thought we might have a little wiser Pug on our hands. One that was at least questioning.

 

His last few posts have proven me wrong.

 

At the beginning of this thread Pug stated -

But I must warn you, the outcome is from God. Also remember you may, at first, not like what you receive from Him. Or He may not even answer. Or He may bless you with more than you prayed for.

And today Pug writes....

God can do shit when He feels like it.

And....

Meanwhile, 24-hour rain has flooded parts of my country. 80,000 homeless. Some body is sure to say: Xmas time, why is your god punishing Muslims? The Tsunami in Asia happened around xmas time too. What a tyrant my God must be.

 

Summary: all-loving? play favourites? tyrant? Can I, or any body, do any thing about it?

And....

What arrogance! Who are we to pray for that or any thing? He is God. His will... will be done any way. We can only ask through prayer.

 

You've not grown wiser at all Pug, just more arrogant. You are clueless ... by your own words, "His will ... will be done any way" and yet you mock these people for not believing.

 

Why should they believe, Pug - really - from your perspective "God can do shit when He wants to" - if He feels like answering a prayer He will - if He doesn't than tough shit.

 

And you still want these people to believe your god exists and is worthy of worship?????

 

I don't get it, I really don't - you are either totally disconnected from reality - or you're a complete moron - or you're an arrogant SOB.

 

I really want to know, PUG... WHY SHOULD ANY OF US BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD???

[Mythra]

OM - I have great respect for you, and I couldn't agree more with your summation of pug. Although he really hasn't gotten worse. He's been a putz from the beginning.

 

But, I'm going to turn the tables on you.

 

Why should anyone believe in your god? I'd say the chances of god being an utter jerk are precisely the same as god being loving and kind and tolerant and understanding.

 

If we're talking about yahweh, you can find scriptural support to make him anything you want him to be. (and a person's version of god usually ends up being a reflection of the person)

[Open_Minded]

OM - I have great respect for you, and I couldn't agree more with your summation of pug. Although he really hasn't gotten worse. He's been a putz from the beginning.

 

But, I'm going to turn the tables on you.

 

Why should anyone believe in your god? I'd say the chances of god being an utter jerk are precisely the same as god being loving and kind and tolerant and understanding.

 

If we're talking about yahweh, you can find scriptural support to make him anything you want him to be. (and a person's version of god usually ends up being a reflection of the person)

 

Hello Mythra:

 

I have great respect for you as well.

 

You asked...

 

But, I'm going to turn the tables on you.

 

Why should anyone believe in your god? ....

 

There is no reason to believe in "my" god. My understanding of God is entirely subjective, I can't possess the Alpha and the Omega, I can't define it, I can't put it in the tiny little confines of my human brain and I can't sell it.

 

My understanding of God is not something that anyone should feel the need to claim, either. My understanding of God is subjective. I don't feel the need to defend it, or to sell it, or evangelize with it.

 

My understanding of God is that God exists. The closest language I would use to frame the INFINITE that I refer to as God is "Alpha and Omega", "I AM", "Infinite LOVE/WISDOM", etc....

 

What is there to defend about any of that and what is there to sell? The Beginning and the End exists - what we experience of it is completely subjective - and I accept that.

 

Beyond that ---- I'm not willing to define something that is beyond definition - nor am I willing to expect others to articulate or perceive that which is beyond FULL human comprehension in the way that I articulate and perceive it. That would be arrogant and/or stupid. I hope I've out grown the arrogance that usually comes with youth and I'm not stupid.

 

I believe God IS

 

I comprehend that rational, reasonable, wise individuals can participate in the same infinite Beginning and End that I do and believe that God is NOT.

 

Mythra, I do hope I've answered your question.

[Mythra]

Mythra, I do hope I've answered your question.

 

Yeah, pretty much. Although I already knew that you have never been one to proselytize your faith here.

 

I think I just wanted you to maybe think about your questioning of pug, and see that some of us find no rational reason to believe in any version of god. At least you realize your faith is subjective. But perhaps Pug's faith is also subjective. And my non-faith as well.

 

I don't really have a problem with anyone thinking anything. It would be a pretty boring world if we all thought the same.

 

One question, though. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. Can you further verbalize seeing god in this way? I mean, I know that the bible describes god in these terms. But, what exactly does it mean? If biblegod is eternal, there really is no beginning. Or an end. And, most people believe that the "souls" of people are eternal. So, alpha and omega I don't get. And, I can't say that I got it even when I was a christian.

 

If it refers to yahweh being all encompasing, it seems like that would be closer to pantheism.

[boink666]

oh silly pug you still taking requests? can you pray that people see the truth and pick a belief with out any lies (not that mines is perfect but its the best i have found so far) i ask because i don't think people shouldn't be blind to lies even if they aren't the brightest bulb in the box. lol

[Bluescreen]

How now what? Why your desperate prayers to keep your faith were not answered?

 

God has not deserted you. It's the other way round. It's very easy to lose faith:

 

<snip for brevity>

 

Pug -

And here I felt that, after our conversation, maybe you were beginning to understand what I and many of the others of us here had gone through. I guess I was wrong, because your callous response to Vixentrox was one of the coldest posts I've seen in a while. Apparently we're not human in your eyes, because you don't seem to understand that we suffered when we cried out for help to the one who promised to wipe away our tears, yet no comfort came to us. Haven't you noticed how simple many of our prayers were, Pug? We were aching for that relationship with God that Christians so enjoy talking about. The underlying root of many of these prayers isn't necessarily the specific thing prayed for, but contact with the God who is supposedly the very essence of perfect love.

 

I speak for myself, and probably others here, when I say that I could have endured if I had simply been given some comfort and a taste of the"peace that surpasseth understanding" in conjunction with the answer of "No" or "a LOT later" or "Yes, but not in the way you wanted" to my prayers. Jesus called us sons and daughters of God, but this description falls flat in our experience. What kind of parent refuses to talk to their children?

 

By denying our pain and our efforts to connect with your God, you show that you either think we're all liars or worse, that you don't have a trace of compassion in your soul - and if there's an unforgiveable sin, THAT is it.

[Open_Minded]

I think I just wanted you to maybe think about your questioning of pug, and see that some of us find no rational reason to believe in any version of god. At least you realize your faith is subjective. But perhaps Pug's faith is also subjective. And my non-faith as well.

I think it's fair to say that 99.9% of the human experience is subjective, wouldn't you say?

 

I don't really have a problem with anyone thinking anything. It would be a pretty boring world if we all thought the same.

Yes.... Indeed....

 

One question, though. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. Can you further verbalize seeing god in this way? I mean, I know that the bible describes god in these terms. But, what exactly does it mean? If biblegod is eternal, there really is no beginning. Or an end. And, most people believe that the "souls" of people are eternal. So, alpha and omega I don't get. And, I can't say that I got it even when I was a christian.

 

If it refers to yahweh being all encompasing, it seems like that would be closer to pantheism.

 

It may be quite close to pantheism - I don't know. Hmmm.... the problem for me is moving from a subtle awareness of the ONENESS of God to human definition of that ONENESS. We humans have a horrid history of religious warfare - we can't look at each other and be thankful for the diversity you eluded to above when you said, "It wold be a pretty boring world if we all thought the same".

 

Let's say this - I have had experiences of ONENESS. Those experiences are closely linked and entwined with LOVE/WISDOM and INFINITE LIFE. These same experiences can be found in all cultures and all major world religions. When individuals have these experiences, they are framed and articulated with the language and culture that person is most familiar with. God is LOVE, Alpha and Omega, LOGOS, Infinite I AM, this is the ONLY LANGUAGE that I am capable of using to articulate those experiences. And to be quite honest, the language falls short - infinitely short - of the actual experience.

 

Subjective/Objective - I can prove neither and I've no intent in trying - I just know the experiences are real to me and they have been a consistent part of my life from the time that I was a small child. They are real and objective to the degree that they have had a concrete impact on who I have come to be. They have framed my understanding of the universe - that we are all interconnected - all part of the same ONENESS. They have framed my response to world filled with hate and religious warfare. These experiences have motivated me to work for understanding between the world's religions.

 

And although my work is on a very small scale, confined to one small community - I also know that there are people all over the world from all the major world religions and not affiliated with religion at all - doing the work of tearing down walls and building peace. I also know that the ONLY way there will be any REAL peace in the world is if that peace grows from small local efforts like I have involved myself in. And I affirm continuously that these experiences - of ONENESS - have framed other people as well. People quite different from myself. People who have come to experience ONENESS in science, in nature, in music or through another belief system.

 

It's all part of the same ONENESS - however we become aware of the interconnectedness of all that IS - does it really matter? The only thing that matters is the concrete impact it has on our individual lives and on the world as a whole. Does the experience elicit a response of compassion and love towards other humans and towards creation? Or - does the experience elicit a response of hatred and anger and violence towards other humans and creation?

 

Either way - for peace or for hatred - the experiences must be taken seriously to the degree that they impact the way we treat each other. The way we treat each other and creation is what makes our individual experiences "REAL" or concrete. That is when it moves from subjective to objective.

 

I give validity to the idea of ONENESS, Alpha and Omega, Infinite I Am, God is LOVE - not because the Bible says it's so - but because these understandings of God bear concrete fruit in a world that needs healing.

 

(One last thing - I understand and accept that others can experience this ONENESS - or interconnectedness - and NOT affiliate it with a living presence. I do - I always have - even from the time that I was a small child. However I know and admire people who have experienced this ONENESS and do not connect it with a living presence - or the source from which life emanates.)

[Mythra]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, OM. Interesting stuff.

 

I agree that the world needs healing. It sure doesn't look like it's headed that way, though.

[Skankboy]

What arrogance! Who are we to pray for that or any thing? He is God. His will... will be done any way. We can only ask through prayer. Why not petition Him to stop all the suffering? As His children we can always ask. Would you change your father's perfect plan for you to be an accountant (or rocket scientist)?

 

There is no "anything else...". Can the good word ever be corrupted? The only shame is when faith dies...

I'm I crazy or are you saying 2 different things here? If there can and will be no changes to the plan, why are you praying? Asking for anything other than "thy will be done" is a form of begging. It makes you no different than the Greeks sacrificing bulls to ensure a successful campaign. I realize most christians don't believe this, that's fine. Most christians prefer to cherry-pick their theology.

 

Let me try another way: Will prayer EVER change what was going to happen anyways? If god has pre-ordained that a child will die of cancer and you pray to spare him, would god change his mind? I don't believe so.

 

Suppossedly your god is eternal and unchanging (which is debatable based on biblical evidence). How much arrogance does it take to believe your wishes can superceed those of a supreme being? If his will "will be done any way", what are your asking through prayer?

[NotBlinded]

OM, the understanding of God (by humans) is one of the least important things! Yes, who are we? Are we so arrogant as to declare we now understand God? Do we know for sure he answers prayers as He pleases? Or at all? Heck, we are now even arguing whether He even exists!

I agree with you 100%, but I have a hard time believing you actually said that. Are you saying that understanding God cannot be limited to books written about this elusive Essence? The arrogance enters when one claims to have inside information regarding the who, what and where about God. Christianity (mostly) does just this. Are you saying otherwise? I really don't think you are. If you feel that the bible has captured everything there is to know about God, then you need to re-think where the arrogance lies.

 

Pug, you did it again:

 

...We humans (me included), with our linear, sometimes naive, mind we think we are all-knowing and we gleefully we apply it to God as we understand it. We are limited. We are so limited.

Don't you do this by thinking that the bible is the word of God? Aren't you gleefully applying your understanding (that of Chrisitanity) to God and claiming it to be true? Christians aren't exempt from being limited. Just because there are some words written somewhere doesn't give anyone the right to claim that those words are absolutely true. The person that has never heard of Christianity has the same right to describe God as any other person since we are all limited. It takes someone that has a little arrogance to proclaim that one understanding is better than the other's when no one has an understanding at all.

[Vixentrox]

Hey Pug, SOIL's aunt needs a healing. Guess he didnt have the faith of a mustard seed to accomplish the healing himself. Want to give it a shot Pug?

[Lycorth]

Hey Pug, SOIL's aunt needs a healing. Guess he didnt have the faith of a mustard seed to accomplish the healing himself. Want to give it a shot Pug?

 

Yeah - get that pussy Jebus of yours to do something useful other than get his rocks off whilst millions of faithful suckers stare at images of him on display in his undies

[Vixentrox]

No reply from either SOIL or Pug. Guess they must be still on thier knees trying summon a mustard seed of faith between the two of them.

[Lycorth]

Yeah, talking to yourself Xian-style is very time-consuming, as I recall

[Ramen666]

Where is Pug? He is suppose to be defending the Gawd with all his soul? I thought keep faith strong and you can bring us all back over, you see that isn't the case Pug is it. Its harder than you think for you to even believe in Christ because (cough, cough) you don't understand why God doesn't answer prayer and allows suffering.

 

Pug, defeated I thought if your faith is strong you will not see problems in your religion. You tell us about faith and shit like that saying we didn't have enough faith. If you have enough faith the Bible should be flawless and God should of been there when we needed him.Well I see your faith is starting to crumble. Thats why you are becoming such an arrgoant bitch and acting like a jerk to people basically insulting us saying we need faith.

 

That car crash that killed those children that burned to death in Flordia. Plus the grandfather died of a heart attack when he heard the news. Lets see what you are saying: They were indeed Christian, The Parents were Christian (actually they were going to church to meet them) So God is good by letting the parents whose one of there own parents died because of this. YOU SAY THAT IS JUST to screw people over. I would not be surprised if they are atheists now. How are those people so suppose to keep faith when everything that was dear to them IS GONE!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/26/bus.crash/index.html Thats the full story

 

Take a look at the real world in stead of the dude named Jesus in your head.

[pug]

Why are you being a snotty Christian now, I have noticed you are becoming more aggressive in an arrogant way. I know this post was not directed to me but I have to comment on how you answered that. That is down right rude and you are now insulting us because we turned away from God. This is vary typical for someone like you. Anyway I don't know why you Christians just can't piss off and leave us alone and always try to violate our rights. I don't need prayer to live in life prayer is just psychological thing. Go ahead pray if it makes you feel better about yourself but in the end its the same chances,

 

Sincere apologies for being a snotty, aggressive, arrogant, rude brat. BTW i'm not just a typical someone, i'm sometimes a retard too. I would love to piss off but just to save one more soul you know... OK go ahead, don't pray. You don't need to anyway. God, who would you pray to?

 

Have faith! HAVE FAITH! Is all you can say that is a load of crap. When you pray for someone to please surrive cancer and they die. What faith is there left to be on. I am not saying one or two prayers in my life never got answered. NONE OF THEM! They you are being vary sarcastic when we are debating poltily and acting like a spoiled brat. Faith is what keeps Christianity in balace it is what keeps people in line. If they see something is wrong, no prayers answered or corrput Church. Faith is believing in something you know is not true.

 

Gotta have faith mate. Crap to you, but to the billions who believe... well it is sweet salvation. What do you mean by faith keeping Christianity "in balance"? Yes, I admit I'm a sarcastic fellow (retards are like that). Your oxymoron phrase "faith is believing in something you know is not true" is quite interesting. How can that be? Absolute faith is believing something you can't even see!!! But when God touches you, boy will you know!

 

Now on the what I have to say about my previous post. Why did you cherry pick my post when you quoted it? You took out a lot of stuff went off and went ranting about how love selfish. Now you are saying prayers have rules " Can't be selfish" Then in the end there is no point in asking God for nothing because in any way you will twist it saying its selfish and we are wrong. This time wake up Pug you are wrong and stop acting like a child. You are like a brat " God exsists because I say he does" That is idiotic and stupid use logic and reason why didn't God answer our prayers? The people in the Twin Tower....wait it collasped on them killing them...good God huh.

 

I already admit I'm a brat. So... I'm not stating and stamping my feet and screaming that God exists because I say so. Goodness, I'm sure you not a child either. Hey wake up, believe what you want. Use logic and reason to explain why God didn't answer your prayers? I can't. He answered some of mine. Still a lot left ignored. So... happy new year.

[pug]

'Open_Minded'

God can do shit when He feels like it.

 

You've taken this out of context. I posted this because some one said my God can't do shit. Err... well maybe I was a bit hasty there, He can but maybe not when He feels like it. I'm sure He has a reason for every little thing He does. The shit thing is we (being humans) can't ever explain the wondrous things he does. Why did He allow this or that or whatever...

 

You've not grown wiser at all Pug, just more arrogant. You are clueless ... by your own words, "His will ... will be done any way" and yet you mock these people for not believing.

 

And I have not grown wiser, as judged by the Great OP. Oh dear. Apologies then because I only appear to be arrogant, kind of a sick humour I've acquired - maybe too long in this thread. Nahhhh... I'm just amused by your serious, self-righteous replies. Reminds me of some ppl at my church.

 

Why should they believe, Pug - really - from your perspective "God can do shit when He wants to" - if He feels like answering a prayer He will - if He doesn't than tough shit.

 

Hey, you already believed, well maybe not you... some of them were once Christians remember? If you care to look at their testimonies, any reverse psychology and/or perspective on my part ain't gonna turn them!

 

And you still want these people to believe your god exists and is worthy of worship?????

 

DID I tell you I too did not wish to believe? I had a hard heart if ever there was one. Well He touched me mightily. And the rest is history. As for "worthy of worship", I believe so. If you don't, you don't. Whatever floats your boat. Ooops too arrogant for you? OK sorry. You believe what is convenient ok? Oooops too sarcastic. OK last attempt - Oh wise one, just believe in yourself and all will be right with you. Ommmmm.

 

I don't get it, I really don't - you are either totally disconnected from reality - or you're a complete moron - or you're an arrogant SOB.

 

I am neither totally disconnected from reality - or a complete moron - or an arrogant SOB - I'm all that you have stated and I forgive you because you are right on the button. Although you left out "retard" which I unfortunately am. I will pray that these God-given qualities will land me a job soon. I've been praying since I was fired last October. Looks like God has a better plan for me. Hope He hurries up. The bills are piling up. Have a happy new year you.

[pug]

OM - I have great respect for you, and I couldn't agree more with your summation of pug. Although he really hasn't gotten worse. He's been a putz from the beginning.

 

But, I'm going to turn the tables on you.

 

Why should anyone believe in your god? I'd say the chances of god being an utter jerk are precisely the same as god being loving and kind and tolerant and understanding.

 

If we're talking about yahweh, you can find scriptural support to make him anything you want him to be. (and a person's version of god usually ends up being a reflection of the person)

 

Yeah, I forgot I was a putz too. Thanks.

 

You will find in the OT that the same God really is to be feared (yet the Israelites forgot that little thing for 40 years). Well, in the NT, He's calmed down a bit - even sending His son to pay for our sins. Err... you already know that and have rejected it. And the chances of whether you've done the right or wrong thing are precisely the same as...

 

For a minute there I thought I had gotten worse too. Thank God I'm still the same putz I was. Whew.

[Mythra]

Yeah, I forgot I was a putz too. Thanks.

 

I don't believe you. I think you've always known you're a putz.

 

But you are growing on us.

 

Kind of like a dark mole that really should be looked at by a doctor.

[pug]

'Open_Minded'

 

My understanding of God is not something that anyone should feel the need to claim, either. My understanding of God is subjective. I don't feel the need to defend it, or to sell it, or evangelize with it.

 

Subjective? As in "because you believe-understand, so it exists"?

 

My understanding of God is that God exists. The closest language I would use to frame the INFINITE that I refer to as God is "Alpha and Omega", "I AM", "Infinite LOVE/WISDOM", etc.... What is there to defend about any of that and what is there to sell? The Beginning and the End exists - what we experience of it is completely subjective - and I accept that.

 

The Beginning and End exists? Your god exists? And you have proof??

 

Beyond that ---- I'm not willing to define something that is beyond definition - nor am I willing to expect others to articulate or perceive that which is beyond FULL human comprehension in the way that I articulate and perceive it.

 

This is beginning to sound like the Tao philosophy/religion... the undefinable force.

 

That would be arrogant and/or stupid. I hope I've outgrown the arrogance that usually comes with youth and I'm not stupid.

 

Funny this: Usually, people who are not stupid do not say out loud that they are umm... not stupid. There's a fine line between arrogance, cocky and sheer confidence-conviction. Err.. can one outgrow arrogance? The foolishness of youth certainly, and we should be more humble as we grow older and hopefully wiser. I'm still a putz for God's sake.

 

I believe God IS

 

Ya dah ya dah. God is what? Once you explain god you've lost it? That's Tao. Or is it Star Wars?

 

I comprehend that rational, reasonable, wise individuals can participate in the same infinite Beginning and End that I do and believe that God is NOT.

 

Huh? Again? Sounds like bull to me. Rational? Reasonable? Wise? More like naive individuals! Your B-E god sure is intriging. Do you need to worship it? Or simply believing it exists is enough? Pray illuminate me oh Open Minded.

 

 

Mythra, I do hope I've answered your question.

Nope. You've completely out-putzed me. Please be rational, reasonable and wise. What is it you want to say about your B-E god?