Get Your Prayers Answered Now!!!

[Ramen666]

Pugster the reason I used prayer as the coin analogy and the homework I told you to do. Prayer is chance that is all it is.Then you say it is a selifish act, in Christianity what isn't selfish?

 

To pray for your kids to live?

 

To pray the Hurricane will bypass your town. Here is how that is responded typically " We prayed and prayed and the storm missed our town and went to the next town insteas arn't we so grateful because the love of God." Now look at the sentence closeley the storm saved THEM. But it went to the next town and destroyed it , that is selfishness.

 

To pray to find your true love (what is selfish about that plus still God said he would grant any prayer)

 

Now on the verge of the end of being a Christian I gave God little tests I said to God excerpt of what I said: " God please be there I am loosing doubt, it feels like you are stabbing in the back. I actually prayed I would find the girl of my dreams (everyone says awwwwwwww) well I said please reveal yourself or something show me the girl."

 

Now of course what was the result , nothing happend at all. PERIOD NADDA. Now God knew what I was thinking if he could reveal himself, answer ONE FUCKING PRAYER I would believe in him. However he didn't I was mostly an atheist at the time already but I gave God a chance. I realized what I was doing I was just talking to myself and trying to make myself feel better. I already found out about the tyrant God was and it was complete the circle became comeplete. The story gets more complicated when this began 2 years ago my quuestioning before I was a full blood atheist against Christianity.

 

I will tell you part of it Pugster since you seem to listen. 2 Years ago...what happendI DID find the girl of my dreams. I thought prayer actually worked. We became better and better friends and we were team. Then she decieded to change classes on me and she was a grade higher than me. The day she told me she was no longer in my class. It felt like God got a rusty sword and stabbed me in the back....

 

After that I did become real depressed and I continued to pray. I wanted something good to happen in my life for once. Nothing and counting...however during the dark times. I did get mad at God and Christianity as a whole. I was searching for the internet and found www.evilbible.com I was shocked and amazed at the same time THIS IS IN THE BIBLE ALL THAT SHIT. I was beginging to see the corruption in the church. I learned about the past of how the church actually started, I then let it go.

 

 

--------------------------------NOW MY POINT------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

NOW LETS BACK UP THIS WHOLE STORY

 

Where I was praying since this thread is about prayer. I prayed and God gave me nothing. I was not atheist at the time , I wasn't even a skeptic. I was full out Republican Conservative Christian I had my game right. You have your game Pug you are a Christian. Why doesn't God answer your prayers, my prayers and lets children burn to death. BURN IN FIRE AS THEIR FLESH BURNED OFF AND MELTED. God is a sick bastard and a tyrant. There is no love at all how can you say God is about love when that is absolutly not true.

[pug]

To pray the Hurricane will bypass your town. Here is how that is responded typically " We prayed and prayed and the storm missed our town and went to the next town insteas arn't we so grateful because the love of God." Now look at the sentence closeley the storm saved THEM. But it went to the next town and destroyed it , that is selfishness.

 

To pray to find your true love (what is selfish about that plus still God said he would grant any prayer)

 

 

 

NOW LETS BACK UP THIS WHOLE STORY

 

Where I was praying since this thread is about prayer. I prayed and God gave me nothing. I was not atheist at the time , I wasn't even a skeptic. I was full out Republican Conservative Christian I had my game right. You have your game Pug you are a Christian. Why doesn't God answer your prayers, my prayers and lets children burn to death. BURN IN FIRE AS THEIR FLESH BURNED OFF AND MELTED. God is a sick bastard and a tyrant. There is no love at all how can you say God is about love when that is absolutly not true.

 

Dear R, Re: your storm analogy. Just curious. Isn't it the same as your selfless prayer of true love®? Aren't you depriving someone else (like the storm hitting the next town) when you ask God to grant you a true love? Same selfishness.

 

I think life, no matter what religion you have faith in, is about giving NOT getting, as in... your "i prayed and God gave me nothing"

 

Have you really been reading my posts? Of course God has answered my prayers. It's such an embarrassment that Fwee has dedicated a whole sarky thread to me.

 

Whatever you may think of God, i can't stop you.

[pug]

As I said - if you're serious - I do feel sorry for you. What a horrid understanding of God, capricious and a tyrant - anything but all-loving.

 

Dear almigthy OM-mmmmmmmmm,

 

OM, I do not mean to be rude but please re-read your post - you are on the verge of becoming the almighty.

 

With all due respects, golly gee, you speak as if you are an all-knowing being, truly understanding the complete workings of the universe. It just is... ommmmmmmm. If you're serious, I do not feel sorry for you. You have just un-locked the mysteries of knowledge, power, prayer, god... and every thing in between that's important. What more do you need? Found a new religion? Declare yourself God? You must write a book!

 

You can't ever let go the thoughts that "..letting thousands die always point to a cruel God.." or "the faithful prayed and nothing happened, no one was saved.." and so on... Ask the Pope, he can't even give you a satisfying answer. It just is, as in Tao.

 

 

OM, the understanding of God (by humans) is one of the least important things! Yes, who are we? Are we so arrogant as to declare we now understand God? Do we know for sure he answers prayers as He pleases? Or at all? Heck, we are now even arguing whether He even exists!

 

The debate will always be never-ending. If you propose that prayer is supposed to change you, some other hack can always tell you it's your sub-conscious working... duh. And on and on.

 

BTW I do not pray for a parking place any more (because thousands more deserving unrequited love sick people may be deprived, or a storm may hit another town). Now, the space just opens up, it just is - the weirdest thing is, it happens right in front of me.

 

 

Meanwhile, 24-hour rain has flooded parts of my country. 80,000 homeless. Some body is sure to say: Xmas time, why is your god punishing Muslims? The Tsunami in Asia happened around xmas time too. What a tyrant my God must be.

 

Summary: all-loving? play favourites? tyrant? Can I, or any body, do any thing about it?

 

OM, i know you mean well. But... "growing up" is relative, sometimes a child-like understanding of "unknowable, unexplained" stuff can be quite insightful and amazing, compared to the hard hearted and scientific adult way of breaking down things to be understood.

 

Let's just agree to dis-agree?

[pug]

Every good christian should pray for world peace.

No. What every good christain should pray for is "Thy will be done". Anything else is the equivalent of asking god to change his perfect, preordained, plan for the universe. Shame on you Pug for trying to corrupt the good word...

 

 

 

What arrogance! Who are we to pray for that or any thing? He is God. His will... will be done any way. We can only ask through prayer. Why not petition Him to stop all the suffering? As His children we can always ask. Would you change your father's perfect plan for you to be an accountant (or rocket scientist)?

 

There is no "anything else...". Can the good word ever be corrupted? The only shame is when faith dies...

[pug]

I prayed desperatly for god to give me my faith and show me truth when I was falling away. Well, I dont belive in gods any more. Did your god answer my prayer by giving me disbelief?

 

Good grief - you actually "prayed desperately"? For how long?

 

Well, congratulations, you have been answered: no answer, no need to believe there's a God.

 

Pray. Desperately. No answer. Great, that's proof enough: no God.

 

Ticket to... ummm... freedom.

 

 

You should be having a great time now. Errr... why are you telling me this?

[Lycorth]

John 14:

12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

 

 

According to this, as well as the verses quoted previously, you can ask for anything (including an immediate answer) and he will do it for you. No fine print. No qualifiers.

 

Good post, Dan - and totally on the money. One of the biggest reasons not to be a Xian; if Jebus can't keep his promises, what good is he?

 

Let's look at what pug said...

 

Some minor QUALIFIERS:

 

> It does not include/guarantee an immediate answer.

 

But it does imply one. The language clearly implies that you ask for something, and you'll get it. Otherwise, with a big a promise as this, why didn't the all-loving Lard Jebus explain that prayers may not be immediately answered? Either he's a jackass who plays games with his followers, or doesn't exist and the dude(s) who made this up didn't proofread for plausibility. Either way, no dice.

 

> Yes, anything, if it shall bring glory to God (unlike asking for heads everytime in a coin flip).

 

That isn't mentioned in the cited verses. If it were important, why didn't Jebus say anything about it? Of course, it's mentioned in other places in the Babble and is a verifiable Xian tenet, but the fact it wasn't mentioned here as well only highlights the fact the Babble isn't the product of any superior guidance or intellect, but of imperfect human brains.

 

> Will only be given, if you have faith in Him (do you?)*

 

We've all said this a billion times - when we were believers, we trusted Jebus on this promise and prayed for things, only to get nothing in return. I know I had more than enough faith to witness to others, endure mocking and criticism for my faith, and cheerfully continue on for many years. I had faith, but Jebus didn't deliver the goods, again, because he's either a jackass who fucks with people's heads, or just doesn't exist.

 

I prayed desperatly for god to give me my faith and show me truth when I was falling away. Well, I dont belive in gods any more. Did your god answer my prayer by giving me disbelief?

 

Exactly. I did the same when my faith faltered, over and over. Now, if Jebus existed and meant the promise he gave, and we are unbelievers now, that must mean that either Jebus answered us by giving us disbelief (which would be against the Babblical concept that God wishes none to go to Hell) or there is no Jebus to answer prayers.

 

I think the answer is clear.

[pug]

SO.... does praying for parking spaces "bring Glory to God"????

hehe...only if they get out of the car with a fistfull of chick tracks.

 

Exactly. It brings glory to God because nobody believes such nonsense. Then one smart person thought it might be an impressive way to show off his... ummm smartness.. to post a thread on prayer requests - which got everybody upset and talking and questioning and debating and proving. IMO it is bringing glory to God in a round about way. Like all answers to prayers, it will never be direct. Think about it.

 

(Maybe not.)

[Casey]

What is the use of praying to either god or the devil? Neither of them exist. If they did, the one would be too busy getting on with his "perfect plan" and the other would exact too high a price for services rendered, so they say. Economically speaking, this is no sort of a proposition at all. I have always mistrusted central planners and I object to paying too much. One might as well live one day at a time and take what comes.

 

My years of growing up in a dysfunctional catholic home and my schooling in a hard catholic school taught me that, and one more thing : if god could not restore what I lost growing up in such a fashion or at least make amends by answering one prayer that I had, how could I trust him to do anything else for me? Did not he himself allegedly say, "If you cannot be trusted in small things, how can you be trusted in great?"

 

As for the rest, well, life's like that. If you don't like it, you can always shoot yourself.

Casey

[pug]

Exactly. I did the same when my faith faltered, over and over. Now, if Jebus existed and meant the promise he gave, and we are unbelievers now, that must mean that either Jebus answered us by giving us disbelief (which would be against the Babblical concept that God wishes none to go to Hell) or there is no Jebus to answer prayers.

 

I think the answer is clear.

 

V,

 

Your answer is clear; mine isn't. You have indeed proven what you need to prove.

 

How many times must your faith falter over and over until you believe? Oh, until Jesus answers by telling you to disbelief? A bit of a conundrum, right?

 

Hey nobody is twisting your arm k?

 

Anyway, you have absolute proof that you have been answered (to disbelieve); empty promise and no God.

 

 

(God loves you anyway.)

[pug]

My years of growing up in a dysfunctional catholic home and my schooling in a hard catholic school taught me that, and one more thing : if god could not restore what I lost growing up in such a fashion or at least make amends by answering one prayer that I had, how could I trust him to do anything else for me? Did not he himself allegedly say, "If you cannot be trusted in small things, how can you be trusted in great?"

 

As for the rest, well, life's like that. If you don't like it, you can always shoot yourself.

Casey

 

Hiya Casey,

 

Hmmmm... Shoot yourself eh?

 

From post #1 it's been "...why didn't God, if God could not, why God did this..."

 

Amazing.

 

 

Maybe it's time to forgive yourself for treating God like on the one hand, a wish-fulfilling machine and on the other, why-you-did-that tyrant.

 

 

Talk to Open-Minded, she da new messiah. Ha Ha kidding... (apologies OM).

[Lycorth]

Your answer is clear; mine isn't. You have indeed proven what you need to prove.

 

I know

 

How many times must your faith falter over and over until you believe?

 

It ain't faltering, old bean - it's gone. Long gone, really.

 

Oh, until Jesus answers by telling you to disbelief? A bit of a conundrum, right?

 

One of many reasons to not believe. I'll say it over and over again, an all-knowing god should know precisely what to do in order to make me a firm believer. Since I've gotten nothing of the sort, clearly no such god exists.

 

Hey nobody is twisting your arm k?

 

Even though I'll burn in Hell forever (according to your beliefs)? Shouldn't you be fighting double-time for my soul? Such a lax God Warrior - what will baby Jebus think?

 

Anyway, you have absolute proof that you have been answered (to disbelieve); empty promise and no God.

 

Yup

 

(God loves you anyway.)

 

If he did, he wouldn't threaten me with Hell for disbelief, he'd do away with evil and make the Earth the paradise he intended in Genesis.

 

But since there's no such God, we need not worry

[Casey]

Talk to Open-Minded, she da new messiah. Ha Ha kidding...

 

Why should I? I have already said I don't believe in messiahs or other imaginary beings. I went through a lot of pain at home and at school. I would not wish it on anyone. To cut a long story short, I fell into a deep hole afterwards. I had to get myself out of it, your god was nowhere to be seen.

Casey

[pug]

Your answer is clear; mine isn't. You have indeed proven what you need to prove.

 

I know

 

How many times must your faith falter over and over until you believe?

 

It ain't faltering, old bean - it's gone. Long gone, really.

 

Really?

 

Oh, until Jesus answers by telling you to disbelief? A bit of a conundrum, right?

 

One of many reasons to not believe. I'll say it over and over again, an all-knowing god should know precisely what to do in order to make me a firm believer. Since I've gotten nothing of the sort, clearly no such god exists.

 

It ain't over yet young un believer.

 

Hey nobody is twisting your arm k?

 

Even though I'll burn in Hell forever (according to your beliefs)? Shouldn't you be fighting double-time for my soul? Such a lax God Warrior - what will baby Jebus think?

 

No need to gloat old chap. Fighting can be in many forms old bean. May you grow wise. No, I need not fight for your soul. In time, God willing, you will fight triple-time for YOUR OWn soul.

 

Anyway, you have absolute proof that you have been answered (to disbelieve); empty promise and no God.

 

Yup

 

(God loves you anyway.)

 

If he did, he wouldn't threaten me with Hell for disbelief, he'd do away with evil and make the Earth the paradise he intended in Genesis.

 

But since there's no such God, we need not worry

 

Again, as always, you roll it all out - He would/should do this or that. Who are you? Who am I? Sitting in front of our monitors, in cyberspace... spitting in the wind... God really loves un-believers (i'm jealous)... more so those who have faltered or fallen away... oh what hell they will wreck when they become believers again... it's not the end yet V... you're not on your death bed yet right? Start worrying... ha ha kidding.

 

[pug]

Talk to Open-Minded, she da new messiah. Ha Ha kidding...

 

Why should I? I have already said I don't believe in messiahs or other imaginary beings. I went through a lot of pain at home and at school. I would not wish it on anyone. To cut a long story short, I fell into a deep hole afterwards. I had to get myself out of it, your god was nowhere to be seen.

Casey

 

You fell into a deep hole? I was hospitalised in a mental ward. I didn't pray - didn't know how to then, i had just been a Christian for 2 -3 days. My church prayed tho. I was discharged 3 days later.

 

No, I do not wish to compare sufferings Casey. I do not know God's plan for you or for me. We all have our crosses to bear. for you, God didn't help you out. But you can't be really sure of that... oops... let's not go down that route.

 

Chill k? You believe nothing works, I believe God answers prayers. The end.

[Lycorth]

Ah, pug - you big silly.

 

If your god loved us, he'd cut the crap and fix the mess he allowed to happen. Any responsible human does the same when they allow things to go awry. But the Abrahamic god just lets it keep going on. Again, good thing he's not for real, eh?

 

Believe me, it's over - no more faith in Jebus. A god with the characteristics he's supposed to have is impossible, and he's an asshole if he does exist, so either way he's got none of my loyalty. I may have faith in my self, my loved ones, or the things I honor and revere, but Jebus just ain't one of them.

 

I know you mean well, so I can't be mad with you, but I don't need to fight triple-time for my soul. My sanity, perhaps, but that's been fifteen years already. Another thing I prayed for release from and got nothing from your god. I'd might as well hang myself for all the good all those years of prayer and hope got me.

 

However, even though you mean well, tell your god to forget about me and fix the problems in the world. I'll handle my own mess myself. I'll take responsibility for my own problems and I'd rather he did the same. That is, if he's real and not a wicked monster who doesn't care about the mess he's allowed to happen in the world.

 

If your god can't answer prayers like he's promised to, I have no use for him. No interest in devil-worshipping over here, thanks

[Dhampir]

It ain't over yet young un believer.

Why waste time? This answer doesn't take into account the fact that many unbelievers die before conversion. So, if god knows what it will take to make believers out of anyone, and wills that no one should perish, and yet people perish, it means either god is not all-knowing, or even reasonably knowing, and has and will fail in this and presumably other endeavors, or the premise that god wills that none perish is a false one.

[pug]

Ah, pug - you big silly.

 

If your god loved us, he'd cut the crap and fix the mess he allowed to happen. Any responsible human does the same when they allow things to go awry. But the Abrahamic god just lets it keep going on. Again, good thing he's not for real, eh?

 

If your god can't answer prayers like he's promised to, I have no use for him. No interest in devil-worshipping over here, thanks

 

Ah Varokhar,

 

Again, you tell me tha same thing! Your human, now in this world, expectations of God.

 

Scoff all you like but I pray you have use for Him one day. I pray you will be blessed with His grace one day.

[pug]

It ain't over yet young un believer.

Why waste time? This answer doesn't take into account the fact that many unbelievers die before conversion. So, if god knows what it will take to make believers out of anyone, and wills that no one should perish, and yet people perish, it means either god is not all-knowing, or even reasonably knowing, and has and will fail in this and presumably other endeavors, or the premise that god wills that none perish is a false one.

 

Dear D,

 

Time? What is your one minute to Him?

 

Define "all-knowing"? Just because of your "blah, blah, blah" you think you know what He knows? A little humility please.

[Lycorth]

Again, you tell me tha same thing! Your human, now in this world, expectations of God.

 

Of course I tell you the same thing. The more I pound on that nail, the more I'll drive it in. And the nail is: your god doesn't live up to his Babblical promise to answer prayers, therefore he must either be unable or unwilling to answer them, or simply doesn't exist.

 

It would make no sense to assume he's unable or unwilling, since he's supposed to be all-powerful and all-loving, so it must be the third answer: God doesn't exist.

 

Scoff all you like but I pray you have use for Him one day. I pray you will be blessed with His grace one day.

 

Why shouldn't I scoff? It doesn't hurt anyone. Scoff scoffity scoff scoff scoff.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. If he's real, he's got a list of prayers he's late on answering, so he can get to those. That is, after he's fixed this mess of a universe we live in.

 

But I won't hold my breath if you don't

[Dhampir]

Time? What is your one minute to Him?

Uh, yuh. Exactly. Ex-act-ly.

Define "all-knowing"? Just because of your "blah, blah, blah" you think you know what He knows? A little humility please.

Yeah, how 'bout yourself there, boss? Talking about humility while presuming to know what I think of my intelligence and knowledge. I don't think 'he' exists, but if he did, the ideas of wanting all to live, and being all knowing, or at the very least, our creator, are incompatible with the fact that there are those that perish.

[pug]

.. therefore he must either be unable or unwilling to answer them, or simply doesn't exist.

 

It would make no sense to assume he's unable or unwilling, since he's supposed to be all-powerful and all-loving, so it must be the third answer: God doesn't exist.

 

Why shouldn't I scoff? It doesn't hurt anyone. Scoff scoffity scoff scoff scoff.

 

woo hoo brilliant deduction Einstein... now can we get back to the main program... which is... aah, there's no main program. Life just is... enjoy.

[pug]

Yeah, how 'bout yourself there, boss? Talking about humility while presuming to know what I think of my intelligence and knowledge. I don't think 'he' exists, but if he did, the ideas of wanting all to live, and being all knowing, or at the very least, our creator, are incompatible with the fact that there are those that perish.

 

Dear Dhampir,

 

Apologies, but i was not questioning your particular intelligence or knowledge. I'm questioning every human being's intellect and humility. We humans (me included), with our linear, sometimes naive, mind we think we are all-knowing and we gleefully we apply it to God as we understand it. We are limited. We are so limited.

 

For example: You can't see "electricity" but you can prove it exists. So, you gloat. For those who can't see, feel or prove God, what do they do? I don't know, what do they do?

 

I know - they live less tortured lives than Christians. For me, it's harder now as a Christian than before. Go figure...

[Vixentrox]

So, how about it Pug, why weren't my desperate prayers to keep my faith answered? You cant say that my prayer was answered and it'll just take time to be fullfilled. Oh no, not now. I've blasphemed the holy spirit. Too late for me. Your all loving, all knowing god deserted me when I was begging for him to shore up my faith. Now I'm lost forever. Sow how about it Pug?

[pug]

So, how about it Pug, why werent my desperate prayers to keep my faith answered? You cant say that my prayer was answered becuase it'll just take time. Oh no, not now. I've blaphemed the holy spirit. Too late for me. Your all loving, all knowing god deserted me when I was begging for him to shore up my faith. Now I'm lost forever. Sow how about it Pug?

 

Dear, dear Vixen,

 

How now what? Why your desperate prayers to keep your faith were not answered?

 

God has not deserted you. It's the other way round. It's very easy to lose faith:

 

 

No answer. Bye.

 

Prayed long enough. Byee.

 

Prayed desperately, no answer. Byeeee.

 

No proof. Byeeeee.

 

Why my life so miserable? Why me? Byeee.

 

Why did you not fix the world? Byeeee.

 

Why are you all-knowing but do not know what to give me? Byeeeee.

 

 

 

Have faith. It's not too late for you. It's never too late for any one.

 

 

 

So how?

[Vixentrox]

Oh, you are not a beliver in the unforgivable sin then? Bible was lying about that one?