Two Questions for Christians...

[Mythra]

Jesus said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You shouldn't quote verses that we can attest from personal experience to be untrue. I found true rest when I escaped jesusism.

 

Here is another one proved false by us. "God's word shall not come back void."

 

God's word falls flat on it's face when spewed out here.

[Clergicide]

Do you really think everything someone tells you that combats that legitimacy of Christianity is true?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No, the problem here isn't that we don't understand the bible. The problem is you're obsessed with your religion to a point of blind-ignorance and refuse to understand anything that contradicts it. Fantasy can be fun, but you really need to seek help cause it seems to be crippling you from living an otherwise ordinary life.

[Mythra]

Do you really think everything someone tells you that combats that legitimacy of Christianity is true?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No. Not everything. Just the things that make sense and are supported by facts. Facts that you are too afraid to take a look at.

[spirit1st]

Daniel has had a encounter with the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

As far as ,people setting off nukes.Of course they will. You know if a person will put bombs on there body and kill others . Why would they not push a button? 1 or a million or a billion? Yes our days are short here.I think the LORD is sick of the evil on earth. And most people cursing him and rejecting HIM.

[Mythra]

Gary: why do you think that the god of the bible is the one true god, and that all other religions are false?

[Clergicide]

Daniel has had a encounter with the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is her experience with Jesus anything like you having eleven children, and surviving an aligator attack after having a plane land on you while you were in the midst off battling of an anthrax infection?

 

If so, I can see how we should treat that with the utmost serious respect.

[Mythra]

Gary:  why do you think that the god of the bible is the one true god, and that all other religions are false?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Take, for instance, Mormonism. One of the fastest growing religions in the world today. Have you examined their claims? Mormons all claim that God speaks to them through his true prophet, Joseph Smith, and his modern day prophets.

 

What criteria do you use to determine that this religion is not true? Perhaps Mormonism is the true religion, and your faith is believing a false gospel.

 

After all, the Book of Mormon tells us that it is inspired directly from God. So it must be. Tell us how we can know that Mormonism is not the one true faith.

[Vixentrox]

Daniel has had a encounter with the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

As far as ,people  setting  off  nukes.Of  course  they  will.  You  know  if  a  person  will  put  bombs  on  there  body  and  kill  others .  Why  would  they  not  push  a  button?  1  or  a  million  or  a  billion?  Yes  our  days  are  short  here.I  think  the LORD  is  sick  of  the  evil  on earth.  And  most  people  cursing  him and  rejecting  HIM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Allah is taking action isn't he?

[Ouroboros]

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Do you believe this?

No.

 

As the bible says we are NEW CREATURES.Not of this world.Would we then being under the rules of this life?

But the truth is?We are living under 2 sets of rules.The greater is the law of LOVE.

Is it the Truth, or is it your opinion?

 

But for the LORDS sake.We obey the laws of the land.

That laws in the land have higher moral standards than the Bible. So why put the Bible, with a lower standard, in front of the law? God commands people to kill other people in the Bible, while the law forbids it. The law present more love than the Bible does. Even Santa Claus loves us more than Jesus.

 

ALL THINGS BECOME NEW.

There are no things that become new. God said his creation was perfect. And yet God created the Devil, Hell and sin. God is the ultimate source and root of all sin, since he created ALL THINGS. God is ALL THINGS, which means, "ALL THINGS BECOME NEW" is that God becomes new. Can he?

 

(This might be over your head, but in above sentence, I'm talking about God, existing in a hypothetical context.)

 

This is very plain.But of course the churches[most]would not agree with this.As they want tithes and workers and fear .These people would not serve them?

But living by FAith and being led by GODS HOLY SPIRIT.Everything would be better.But man does not trust GODS wisdom.

If living by faith and being led by the Holy Spirit would make people better, why does America with 70% Christians have a higher crime rate and more murders than Europe that is majority agnostic and atheistic? Reality and statistics prove you wrong. There is more fight between the denominations in Church than there is between any other group of religion.

 

Because faith cannot be seen.And we want to see everything.And we want it NOW!

Can you see?

That is kind of funny. We can't see it, we want to see it, so can you see?

 

GOD is kinda like a man

Hahaha! That made me think of MadTV: "He kinda' look'a'like'a man." Sorry, just thinking of funny skits.

 

,with a little boy will not not listen or obey.Wanting his way always.The man loves the child,But the child goes his way and soon has big trouble.We are that child and HE is that man?

And the man absues the child, because that is his will. God does whatever he wants, and whatever he pleases, the spirit moves like the wind, you never know where it's going, and sometimes it becomes a hurricane and kills people without any reason but that it can.

[Ouroboros]

Yes , They grow up? But look at our world.  It is a mess,  But we have raised these young people. Who many have no feeling even for there familys.

We hear most every  day here in this nation,  of kids killing there  dads and moms.or  putting them away.  with out any feeling.Do  you think this world will get better?

Most of the mess is created by religious people.

 

We hear stories about the mom that killed her kids because God told her to.

 

And still you claim religion and Christian faith would solve that? How?

 

To make more people killers and murderers in the name of Jesus?

[Ouroboros]

May be true? But today we have weapons that can destory whole nations.And people who would gladly do it. 

Only a matter of time now ,I think? I hope I am wrong.But do not see a future for many on earth?

Yes, the leader that have the weapons to destroy the world is... George W Bush. Our Christian leader.

 

You're claiming that he would gladly destroy the world?

 

The other crazies that have these kind of weapons, only the religious fanatics scares me the most.

 

All the weapons of mass destruction were invented by the Christian western worlds. Put the blame where the blame is due.

 

You keep on believing the insane religion that brought us here, would save us from the attrocities the same religion created for us.

[Ouroboros]

Yes I think the entire Bible is true, so far it is the only book that accurately for tells of comming events.

[Mythra]

Can I explain something?

You see JESUS CHRIST had to live in faith and suffer as we do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, Gary; when you start with a sentence that we know isn't true, it all goes downhill from there. Jesus didn't live. The story of him in the bible is just a story. Like a character in a Stephen King novel, he seems real. It's easy to picture his exploits as having actually happened. (well, not all of them.. I've never been actually able to visualize Jesus walking on the water).. But that's beside the point.

 

Jesus wasn't a real person. Jesus is a theological construct that began as a collection of wisdom sayings.

 

Then we get to Paul. And his visions. When Paul talks about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, he isn't talking about the Jesus that you think of. Paul was unaware of the gospel story, and Paul died before the gospel story as we know it today ever really got off the ground.

 

Those are the facts. Believe em or not.

[Ouroboros]

You are not meant to understand the Bible, if you where then you would be able too..

Of course not, because you need the special revelation from God to understand it. And if you don't then you have to trust some authority like your pastor or a preacher of some kind. And most of the time these preachers have interpreted the Bible without any divine help. They all just make up things as they go. The verses that don't fit their agenda become metaphors, while the verses that fits perfectly to their agenda become literal. I know this, because I've seen this song and dance many times. The Bible is not some truth document, but a mix of alternating and contradictory ideas, that you can make anything from it. It's like the box of crayons, where you have every possible color you ever want. You just pick the color that supports your idea.

 

The Bible warns us not to lean on our own understanding of the Scriptures.

Even Theologians cannot agree on many things, because they are only human and not perfect.

So if eve theologians can't agree, how can we ever know that anything that anyone ever have said could be the right translation or interpretation? By your own judgment. And that's according to the Bible. You judge what you hear with the Holy Spirit that is within you. How else would you know to discern between a false or a true prophet?

 

The Core message of the Gospel is simple to understand however.

Jesus said I am the Alpha and the Omega!

He is the new begining and end of it all, his name is the only name under Heaven by which men shall be saved.

Arguement outside of that is designed to side track you away from Jesus

 

Peace

Oh. Yeah. I think I remember, you're an unversalist, which is cool.

 

But how can you understand that Jesus is Alpha and Omega, when the Bible can't be understood, like you said in your first paragraph?

You are not meant to understand the Bible, if you where then you would be able too..

[Amethyst]

Oh, I never said that no one would ever push the button. I'm saying that pushing the button will not destroy the world.

 

Perhaps not, but lots of people would starve to death from droughts caused by climate change. People would die from radiation poisoning. And there would probably be a nuclear winter as well, so lots of people would die in that. Yeah, there would be survivors, but the world as we know it would probably be gone.

[seeker]

Daniel has had a encounter with the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

As far as ,people  setting  off  nukes.Of  course  they  will.  You  know  if  a  person  will  put  bombs  on  there  body  and  kill  others .  Why  would  they  not  push  a  button?  1  or  a  million  or  a  billion?  Yes  our  days  are  short  here.I  think  the LORD  is  sick  of  the  evil  on earth.  And  most  people  cursing  him and  rejecting  HIM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You think the lord is sick of evil on the earth? Really think about that for a second. You think you can understand or even come close to an infinite being that is totally uncomprehendable??? I can't think of anything more arrogant then thinking something like that. I believe that's making an image of what you think God is. In fact anytime you say "I think God is this, does this, would do this, would NOT do this, likes this, dislikes this.....etc " is making a image of God.

 

Anything you can come up with to explain God is nothing more then a Humans interpretation and HOPE of what God is. Human emotions, traits....are not God THEY ARE HUMAN!!!! . ANY sort of attribute you give God is wrong because you cannot and do not understand the infinite or something that is uncomprehendable.

[Guest queen annie]

The Bible warns us not to lean on our own understanding of the Scriptures.

No it doesn't--it says do not lean on the understandings of others, because we all have been given something inside of us that can understand--and no one can do it for us.

 

It's basically what I think of as 'gut instinct.' Some deny it, some follow it. It is said to always be right. If it's always right but our conscious thoughts are often misguided--what would a logical conclusion say about such things?

 

 

 

Even Theologians cannot agree on many things, because they are only human and not perfect.

I think it is basically because they think God is some person outside of the human race and totally ignore the bible they confess to be authorities on. It says that God is within--all we need is within. We don't need to study God--what they study is their own body of accumulated theories and what-not. God isn't some sort of college degree.

 

The Core message of the Gospel is simple to understand however.

In a simple sentence in the vernacular, then? Would you share it with all of us?

 

Jesus said I am the Alpha and the Omega!

 

He is the new begining and end of it all, his name is the only name under Heaven by which men shall be saved.

 

Arguement outside of that is designed to side track you away from Jesus

Oh, is that what you are saying is the simply understood gospel message? If so--how do you figure you've explained anything? You've simply restated the standard ambiguous litany in an abridged fashion.

 

That's the kind of thing that keeps all this misery prolonged and excruciating for everyone. If you know such a good piece of news, just state it in the language of a second grader and put the world out of it's misery! (provided you are taken at your word, that is--and that's another big impediment on the other side of the exchange )

[Mythra]

No it doesn't--it says do not lean on the understandings of others, because we all have been given something inside of us that can understand--and no one can do it for us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi queen annie. Don't think we've met. Nice to meetcha.

 

Boy, I really hate it when I gotta do christian's homework for em.

 

Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight."

[Guest queen annie]

Anything you can come up with to explain God is nothing more then a Humans interpretation and HOPE of what God is. Human emotions, traits....are not God THEY ARE HUMAN!!!! .  ANY sort of attribute you give God is wrong because you cannot and do not understand the infinite or something that is uncomprehendable.

That's the whole difficulty. Things unseen and things perceived with 5 senses. Emotionally driven religion vs healthy spiritual evolution/growth.

 

Emotions are strictly confined to physical existence--they are chemical reactions which affect cognitive reactions and are sparked by the memories of previous disruptions of homeostatic balance (stress, trauma, shock, hurt, etc)

 

It is the principle behind the buddhist advice of 'learn to respond instead of react.'

 

Personally, I myself am sick of what I think of as 'evil' in this world. I define evil as man's propensity to prioritize according to his own perception as defined by oblivious self-orientation--often manifested as all forms of greed, violence and cruelty/abuse of others, and even in something mildly defined as indifference. Evil is not the opposite of good, it is the opposite of Love. It is the hole where love should rightly be.

 

I see the effects of evil in a big way on this forum. It is the main force driving the ideas of christians and all the associated malignancy which comes from that root (wars, over-legislation, imprisonment of criminals produced by injust laws, etc)

 

Another Buddhist saying that I consider beyond argument is this one:

 

If you do not care for each other, who will care for you?

[mwc]

You are not meant to understand the Bible, if you where then you would be able too.

I'm not meant to understand the bible? So...is it just me that's not supposed to understand it? That's kinda sad. I feel so alone now.

 

I thought that the whole point of the bible was to give me 1) the story so that I can join the group and 2) further insight once I join. If I can't understand it why would I join? If, once I join, I still can't understand it except through special revelation, then what's its purpose? Why do I find this impossible to understand book in hotels and everywhere else? Why do xians come here and rattle off verses that no person, not even xians, can possibly understand until "god" reveals the meaning?

 

The Bible warns us not to lean on our own understanding of the Scriptures.

So I'm to simply accept something that I just can't understand in the hope that I will, at some point, possibly understand it? How long does this take? I waited about 30 years and never got a revelation (well, just the one that told me the whole thing was a lie but I'm sure that's not the one you're talking about).

 

Why don't you take a little time to research mystery/revealed religions? Here's a link to get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_religion

 

Even Theologians cannot agree on many things, because they are only human and not perfect.

So you appeal to the higher authority of Theologians but then tell me they're wrong. This is an amusing twist on the normal appeal to scientists only to denounce their research and findings.

 

The Core message of the Gospel is simple to understand however.

 

Jesus said I am the Alpha and the Omega!

 

He is the new begining and end of it all, his name is the only name under Heaven by which men shall be saved.

How do you come to this conclusion? If the simple verses I posted fall under the category of "mystery and revelation" then how can you be sure that the gospels, which are believed to hold the secret of eternal life, aren't much more difficult than anything in the rest of the book. Isn't that like giving away the ending of the movie and then telling me there's no need to watch the rest since it's too complicated?

 

Arguement outside of that is designed to side track you away from Jesus

Then do me a favor. Throw yours, and any bible you see, in the trash. According to you it is something that can be used to side track people away from jesus. The easy to read gospels tell me that my eye causes me to sin I should pluck it out. If the bible causes me (and the world because we all misunderstand it) to sin then we should remove it as well. It really won't be missed since apparently "true" xians get special revelations to give them everything they need to know anyway.

 

I appreciate your 'coherent' argument...sorry, I am being sarcastic. You gave the answer I expected and totally dismissed everything I wrote. Why is it that when I argue these types of things I feel I'm in a screwed up version of an old Star Trek? You know, the one with Harry Mudd and his robots? They had to use illogical reasoning so the robots would start beeping and then just shut down with a confused look? When logic is applied to xians they get all confused and eventually shut down.

 

mwc

[NotBlinded]

Please do not compare God to humans.

God is not some political figure who derives his authority and power from people. You can't view him as some dude who was appointed to some high position and now all he does is abuses his power. I understand how you can condemn a dictator like Stalin or Hitler, but He is not a human being. Unlike humans, he can't and wont change, he upholds his promises and is just, and he has the full authority to punish the unjust. Again, He can't be confused with some judicial authority or a policeman. He is complete and perfect and does not need anything, like we do, but would like people to obey him, cause that is how this whole thing was designed. People were created to be in communion with him and obey him, but yet, we have a free will, so we can choose not to if we so decide. He does not lack anything and does not need anything from you for him to feel better or elevate his status. But we, finite beings, need his sustenance, and no matter how arrogant sometimes we humans get, the fact remains that he is the ultimate life sustainer and provider, so it is up to you now to be with him or neglect him, and go your way.

 

I would like to ask how one can even begin to describe God if not by using human terms? You do it when you describe him as being just, complete and perfect. These are all human terms invented to describe something/someone. The writers of the bible should feel blasphemous for even trying to describe God. If there is a god, I am sure it wouldn't want to be described as jealous, just or of having any other human attribute. It would be undescribable don't you think?

[Amethyst]

You are not meant to understand the Bible

 

Oy...sounds like the ultimate brainwashing to me. We must be sheep and only do what preachers tell us to, even if they make us drink poisoned kool-aid, cause god loves us and wants us to.

 

And oh, Mr. Preacher says, see that nice little cliff? Well, let's just go and have a look-see at the new holy land over there, where we'll all move to and establish our own right-wing theocracy....whooops! *Thousands of people follow preacher over the cliff...gee, maybe they should've used their brains in the first place!*

 

[spirit1st]

We are living under GRACE.We are running this world.But of course fallen angel arte putting the thoughts in mens minds.OR they would not being doing the evil they do.I am sure?Most in here have a knowledge of GOd.And know he is real.But do not have a personal relationship with him.

I do not believe GOD could save one person on earth.We are all affedted with sin.

But HE has to create a new being with in us!

I would guess?We live on a planet the size of a pin head.And we are smaller.We think we are above others,and are self willed and mostly self serving.Most love?When they are loved.But I know those who have kids?Love them NO MATTER WHAT?

LOVE is a funny thing?It brings GREAT JOY into our hearts.We would die for LOVE?How could anyone know?LOVE would be so important to us?GOD is LOVE.Pure and clean.Of course all of us,want our thoughhts too be perfect and all others wrong.But YOU see?Even in your distaste for GOD or christains.YOU STILL WANT TO HELP OTHERS.WHY?

Because you were made to love and too be LOVED.You can not change that FACT.We can not stand too not be around other people.Even if we know?We might be hurt.Because deep in our hearts?We MUST have someone else in our lifes ALWAYS.We are VERY SAD,when alone.

We get mad and hate ,Yet will forgive,if we must be alone?This is just the way we were MADE!Nothing wrong with it.It just shows the kind of beings we are.I truly wish each of you happiness.Unless a person experiances something?They never understand it.They will SAY?Yes I know all about that?Have you ever heard a person say that?But in truth.Unless they experianced ALL of it?They NEVER know.But just think they understand.When I shot myself playing with a gun.My wife had just had our 1st boy.I had broke my hand and had a shot foot.And only$ 8.00.We had no food.My wife crying ,asked what will we do?I said?I will go too the dog track.She said ,you nuts.Well I went.I parked accoss the street and hopped accross the parking lot.I sat down a lot.cars flying by me .Cusing me.Every where I stepped blood came out of me foot.I got inside.Got a ticket and waiting for the race to cash it.The guy in the window.ASKED?Did I have a ticket from another day.I said no.I am waitting on the race to run ,to cash it.He went on down to another guy.pointed at me and they laughted.I cashed the ticket and did this 3 or 4 times Got enough to pay our bills and food for all.

I did this about 4 different time.never missing a win.The last time,I won the 1st 3 .then the 4 race I lost.I did not go back ,for many years.FAITH DOES MOVE THE MOUNTAIN.

[Fweethawt]

Do you really think everything someone tells you that combats that legitimacy of Christianity is true?

I'm not sure. Go ahead and hit me with a legitimate part of Christianity, and I'll take it from there.

 

Yes, I believe the Bible is a carbon copy of the truth, though the Bible itself is not the truth... it is the shadow of the truth, and we go to it for the shape of God.

I'm glad you see it this way.

 

When a carbon-copy of something is made, two things happen at the same time.

 

All at once, a perfect copy of the original is being made, while a reverse, or negative version is being created on the back side of the carbon paper.

 

When we read the bible carbon-copy of Truth™ we see that copy. The copy that most people aren't even aware is being made.

 

Do you follow me?

[Clergicide]

I did this about 4 different time.never missing a win.The last time,I won the 1st 3 .then the 4 race I lost.I did not go back ,for many years.FAITH DOES MOVE THE MOUNTAIN.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Will you stop lying about yourself..that's a sin you know. You dirty fuckin sinner!