Two Questions for Christians...

[daniel_1012]

No, it actually shows that the deconversion process is long and arduous.

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Incorrect. Though you may consider quitting a particular thing for a long time, it is not until you quit, that you have quit. Until you quit your job, you are still employed. Even if you want to quit for a long time. Like I said, it speaks many things to its legitimacy.

 

Ohhhhhh 20.... 25 years or so! I don't remember, coulda been any of um! Never did much like that thing.

[Vixentrox]

Wait...my chest is tightening...maybe god killing me.

[Vixentrox]

Oh...it was just a burp from my diet pepsi.

[Asimov]

Incorrect.  Though you may consider quitting a particular thing for a long time, it is not until you quit, that you have quit.  Until you quit your job, you are still employed.  Even if you want to quit for a long time.  Like I said, it speaks many things to its legitimacy.

 

Ohhhhhh 20.... 25 years or so!  I don't remember, coulda been any of um!  Never did much like that thing.

 

It's not so black and white as that, and your analogy fails in the aspect that someones belief can go through periods of doubt and questioning. Eventually, if the questions outweigh the answers, the doubt will cause someone to finally fall away. The actual process of falling away is longer, the act of quitting is one event in the deconversion process.

[Clergicide]

This is incorrect.  The delusions and fantasies of one person never apply to another person, even if the delusional person insists repeatedly.  You'll learn more about concepts such as this once you begin therapy.

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[Vixentrox]

It's not so black and white as that, and your analogy fails in the aspect that someones belief can go through periods of doubt and questioning.  Eventually, if the questions outweigh the answers, the doubt will cause someone to finally fall away.  The actual process of falling away is longer, the act of quitting is one event in the deconversion process.

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Exactly...and there is the rebound that happens to many people as well, bounce right back to be being a Xtian. Years of brainwashing take years to get rid of.

[Fweethawt]

Incorrect.  Though you may consider quitting a particular thing for a long time, it is not until you quit, that you have quit.  Until you quit your job, you are still employed.  Even if you want to quit for a long time.  Like I said, it speaks many things to its legitimacy.

 

Ohhhhhh 20.... 25 years or so!  I don't remember, coulda been any of um!  Never did much like that thing.

 

When you quit your job, your Eternal Security™ isn't at stake. During the deconversion process, one is confronted with figuring out whether or not Eternal Security™ is even an issue.

 

Then, when you figure it out, and you realize that people don't come back from the dead, and that there is no proof of a Heaven (which is right up in the clouds according to your God bible) it becomes quite difficult for one to come to the realization that everything that the church has taught them was a lie.

 

Thus making the decision very difficult and time consuming.

[Clergicide]

Dang!  You caught me.  You figured out something Jesus Christ, Paul, the apostles, and every Christian ever since has missed!  What a revelation! 

 

They are eternal!  Amen.  And, since you have chosen to live under it by refusing atonement for your sin, expect to be judged according to it.

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So if you're wearing garments made of two kinds of cloth can I stone you death? Cause that is one of the laws.

[crazy-tiger]

Incorrect.  Though you may consider quitting a particular thing for a long time, it is not until you quit, that you have quit.  Until you quit your job, you are still employed.  Even if you want to quit for a long time.  Like I said, it speaks many things to its legitimacy.

 

Ohhhhhh 20.... 25 years or so!  I don't remember, coulda been any of um!  Never did much like that thing.

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You know... I smoked for 10 to 12 years.

 

By your way of arguing, that means the legitamacy of my smoking is questionable...

 

 

I was a virgin for somewhere between 241 and 250 months.

 

By your way of arguing, my being a virgin is questionable...

 

 

 

 

Your attempts at ridiculing the person have been noticed and are a sign that you have no real response.

[daniel_1012]

It's not so black and white as that, and your analogy fails in the aspect that someones belief can go through periods of doubt and questioning.  Eventually, if the questions outweigh the answers, the doubt will cause someone to finally fall away.  The actual process of falling away is longer, the act of quitting is one event in the deconversion process.

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It is black and white. There is a day you were saved, and a day you turned your back on the Lord. If there is not, you have decieved yourself into believing you were one at anytime.

[Asimov]

It is black and white.  There is a day you were saved, and a day you turned your back on the Lord.  If there is not, you have decieved yourself into believing you were one at anytime.

 

Yes, but that line is arbitrary. Nobody really knows what day it was except maybe God himself, so what is your fucking point?

[Vixentrox]

It is black and white.  There is a day you were saved, and a day you turned your back on the Lord.  If there is not, you have decieved yourself into believing you were one at anytime.

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Ohh...so to be saved you have to have a perfect memory. Because if you don't remember the exact day...you were never saved...right...got yah. Damn...whole lot of Christians gonna burn.

[Clergicide]

It is black and white.  There is a day you were saved, and a day you turned your back on the Lord.  If there is not, you have decieved yourself into believing you were one at anytime.

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Does this work for sins to? I was never a thief even if I ran a chop-shop for a year. Or I was never a murderer cause I stopped after my 15th? this is a great system!!

[daniel_1012]

You know... I smoked for 10 to 12 years.

 

By your way of arguing, that means the legitamacy of my smoking is questionable...

I was a virgin for somewhere between 241 and 250 months.

 

By your way of arguing, my being a virgin is questionable...

Your attempts at ridiculing the person have been noticed and are a sign that you have no real response.

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I will never forget the YEAR that I became a Christian. Perhaps the road of deception, in said deconversion is a confusing one in which you don't remember the day you turned your back on the Lord. But most of the time, I would doubt that is the case. I suppose I can accept that though, but it still brings into question the legitimacy of it, to me in most "testimonies," that might say, ohhhhh 20... 25 years. I don't know.

[Asimov]

I will never forget the YEAR that I became a Christian.  Perhaps the road of deception, in said deconversion is a confusing one in which you don't remember the day you turned your back on the Lord.  But most of the time, I would doubt that is the case.  I suppose I can accept that though, but it still brings into question the legitimacy of it, to me in most "testimonies," that might say, ohhhhh 20... 25 years. I don't know.

 

Do you remember the month, day, hour, second? No? then I guess we should question your credibility as a Christian.

 

And please accept my challenge for a debate, daniel...I want to get this started.

[daniel_1012]

Do you remember the month, day, hour, second?  No?  then I guess we should question your credibility as a Christian.

 

And please accept my challenge for a debate, daniel...I want to get this started.

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Seconds, months, days were not in question -- the said time on trial, are YEARS.

 

Big difference. Literally.

[spirit1st]

Well the reason we want to go to NEW JERUSALEM is because here we live in a body that can not help but sin.Our spirit inside us .Hates being in it.

GOD build a city ,just for our new spirits.The earth its self is failing.death is every where.people are fullof hate here.Even many who say they love?

Our new place has no hate or unkindness.No one hurts anyone.

GOD tells us?HE does not tell us everything there ,or people would want to go,just too get allthose things and not because HE came here and gave HIS OWN LIFE FOR THEM.

You see?Once born of GOD,this earth is no longer our home.We become new creatures ,with new desires.Our spirit can never be happy in this world.That is why in revaltions ,we see HE CREATES A NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH.

You see?Sin was always the problem.GOD can not have sin in HIS KINGDOM.Those in hell or I should say waiting for judgement are with out gOD,just as you are!Except they are trapped in the center of the earth suffering a little more than you are.

You see?The bible teaches that people suffer every day here on earth.We kinda get used to it ,in most cases.We think its part of life.So we don"t really see the different until it gets bad.We get hungry,we need bathes,we need air,we need someone else in our lifes.and get hurt and many things.But with the LORD?We will need nothing,never be hurt or suffer in any way!You see?Unless we have experianced the LORd and the things of the HOLY GHOST?We miss nothing.

HE HAS A WONDERFUL LIFE HERE FOR US.AND MUCH GREATER after we shed these weak bodys.going to church saves no one.KNOWING HIM AS FATHER is GREAT.HE BLESSES me lots.HE ONLY WANTS TO GIVE TO US.YOU HAVE NOTHING HE WANTS.EXCEPT TO KNOW HIM AS FATHER AND FRIEND.It has nothing too do with any person on EARTH.HE WILL FORGIVE AND BLESS YOU.if you only accept HIM INTO YOUR HEART.

[Vixentrox]

A wonderful life kissing his ass. No thanks.

[Mythra]

Serenitynow is quite right when she says that the concept of endless punishment is absent in the OT. So, the question is, where did it come from? The answer, like so much of the bible, is that the concept is pagan in origin. It came from the Greeks, who in turn got much of their concept of hell from the Egyptians.

 

In greece it went by the names Orcas, Erebus, Tartarus, and Infernus. It was referred to by Hesiod, in 850 BCE as a place within the "nether regions" of the earth. Hell is also referenced by Virgil in the Aeneid.

 

Here is an exerpt from Virgil.

 

And now, wild shouts and wailings dire

And shrieking infants swell the dreadful choir

Here sits in bloody robes the fury fell

By night and day to watch the gates of hell

Here you begin terrific groans to hear

And sounding lashes rise upon the ear

On every side the damned, their fetters grate

And curse, mid clanking chains, their wretched fate.

 

Of course, the greeks are indebted to the Egyptians for this wonderful doctrine of eternal torments and unending suffering. Egyptian mythology speaks of a "lake of fire" that contained the bodies of the damned.

 

In greek mythology, suffering was reserved for people who had lived cruel, evil, selfish lives. Often the torment lasted a thousand years. Christian mythology took it from there, and adapted it to fit within their system of theology, with the only way to escape an eternal hell being a belief in the divinity of Jesus and "acceptance" of his substitutionary sacrifice.

[Mike D]

Perhaps the road of deception, in said deconversion is a confusing one in which you don't remember the day you turned your back on the Lord.

Correction, nobody here has literally "turned their back on the Lord", the people here simply realized that they don't share the hallucinations of primitive delusional sheepherders who have been dead for over 2000 years. For example, if you disbelieved claims about the existence of Bigfoot, we wouldn't say you "turned your back on bigfoot" now would we? Of course not!

[Asimov]

Seconds, months, days were not in question -- the said time on trial, are YEARS.

 

Big difference.  Literally.

 

There's not a big difference between months and years. There's not a big difference between days and months. There's not a big difference between hours and days, nor seconds and hours....

[Ouroboros]

Been a Christian for 2.5 years.

NOW IT MAKES SENSE!!! It is all clear. You're a friggin newbie! Fresh from the presses, still wet behind the ears.

 

 

So, will you take up Asimovs request to a formal debate?

[Ouroboros]

I'll tell you what you don't know.  You don't know the danger you are in.  It's interesting you don't even know how long you were a Christian, showing me you don't even know the date of your own conversion.  So was it 20... 25 years?  Maybe 24, ah heck I don't know I never really paid much attention anyways!

I don't remember the exact day, but it was in May or April, 1972. And I was in my parents kitchen, all alone.

 

It was a Sunday. My parents were at Church, and I was sick and couldn't go, or maybe I just didn't want to, and they were kind enough to let me stay home.

 

I felt bad that I didn't go to Church, and Sunday school, so I decided I wanted to give Jesus a chance.

 

I got glass of water, and some bread, and had my own little "last supper" or maybe it was "first supper" with the Lord, and asked him to come into my heart.

 

Nothing much happened. But I felt a relief that now I was a Christian, and wouldn't go to hell.

 

I spent many years as a Christian, and I did most of the things you would expect from a Christian.

 

In 1976 or 1977, in a summer tent-church campaign. I can remember the place exactly, even the smell from the grass. I started to speak in tongues.

 

In 1986 I went to Bible school. I went on mission trips to Germany (Padderborn), and Tjechoslovakia (Prague). I did evangelizing work in downtown of Uppsala for years.

 

2003, I deconverted.

 

So what's that? 31 years? And I still remember the moment in my parents kitchen, but also the moment in my bathroom when I lost my faith.

 

Clear as the day.

[mwc]

Galatians 6:10

 

6  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--

7  which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

9  As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

10  Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

So even if an angel from heaven, and presumably "god," were to contradict Paul then Paul would be right? That's a pretty bold statement from old Paul. It seems a little arrogant in fact. Some might say he's placing himself above "god" with this statement. Oh well, sorry to interupt it just sounded like something another character in the bible was accused of doing only no one's supposed to listen to him.

 

mwc

[daniel_1012]

I don't remember the exact day, but it was in May or April, 1972. And I was in my parents kitchen, all alone.

 

It was a Sunday. My parents were at Church, and I was sick and couldn't go, or maybe I just didn't want to, and they were kind enough to let me stay home.

 

I felt bad that I didn't go to Church, and Sunday school, so I decided I wanted to give Jesus a chance.

 

I got glass of water, and some bread, and had my own little "last supper" or maybe it was "first supper" with the Lord, and asked him to come into my heart.

 

Nothing much happened. But I felt a relief that now I was a Christian, and wouldn't go to hell.

 

I spent many years as a Christian, and I did most of the things you would expect from a Christian.

 

In 1976 or 1977, in a summer tent-church campaign. I can remember the place exactly, even the smell from the grass. I started to speak in tongues.

 

In 1986 I went to Bible school. I went on mission trips to Germany (Padderborn), and Tjechoslovakia (Prague). I did evangelizing work in downtown of Uppsala for years.

 

2003, I deconverted.

 

So what's that? 31 years? And I still remember the moment in my parents kitchen, but also the moment in my bathroom when I lost my faith.

 

Clear as the day.

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And where can I fine your testimony? I assume you wrote one and put it up here right? If there is an easy way to locate it, I will go read it.