Two Questions for Christians...

[Mythra]

Jesus is my Lord not them.

Have I missed anything ?

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You've missed plenty. Aside from the fact that you keep quoting a bible that we don't acknowledge as anything other than a silly little book that silly little people such as yourself think is direct from the creator of the universe. (much like if we continually tried to cram verses from the Q'uran down YOUR throat)

 

but, aside from that - you pick and choose the portions of this book to suit your limited understanding.

 

Take, for instance 1 John 2:4 He that saith 'I know Him' but keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

or

 

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not; whosoever sinneth hath not seen him; neither known Him.

 

 

So, Razor. Since you claim to be one of his own. Let me ask you. Are you sinless? Do you keep all of the commandments? (not just the 10 biggies)

 

Well, I imagine that you don't keep the 10 commandments - tell me what a typical Saturday consists of for you.

 

Do you still sometimes sin? Perhaps struggle with greed or lust or judgment on occasion?

 

The bible is clear on these things. You have not seen him or known him, and the truth is not in you. The bible declares you to be a liar.

[Razor]

You've missed plenty.  Aside from the fact that you keep quoting a bible that we don't acknowledge as anything other than a silly little book that silly little people such as yourself think is direct from the creator of the universe.  (much like if we continually tried to cram verses from the Q'uran down YOUR throat)

 

but, aside from that - you pick and choose the portions of this book to suit your limited understanding.

 

Take, for instance 1 John 2:4  He that saith 'I know Him' but keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

or

 

1 John 3:6  Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not; whosoever sinneth hath not seen him; neither known Him.

So, Razor.  Since you claim to be one of his own.  Let me ask you.  Are you sinless?  Do you keep all of the commandments?  (not just the 10 biggies)

 

Well, I imagine that you don't keep the 10 commandments - tell me what a typical Saturday consists of for you.

 

Did you still sin?  Perhaps struggle with greed or lust or judgment on occasion? 

 

The bible is clear on these things.  You have not seen him or known him, and the truth is not in you.   The bible declares you to be a liar.

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At least!

A genuine seeker after Truth!

 

There is not a day goes by in my life, where I need Jesus to over look my imperfect obedience to God!

 

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all (James 2:10)

 

Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified (Gal. 2:16)

 

 

 

Question further by all means

 

 

Peace

[Mythra]

No need to question further if you don't answer the original question with anything intelligible.

[Checkmate]

Why am I not surprised at you Grinch?

 

Incidently Judith was an incredibly attractive Blond with Blue eyes, great body too.

I just Loved her English accent as well.

 

Peace

Okay (and I know I'll regret asking this, but...) WHAT in the hell are you talking about? Who is this "Judith" you've introduced into the conversation?

 

I like British accents, and good looking women as much as the next hard leg, but you've come out of left field with your remark. Perhaps you've confused me with someone else? (Someone who perhaps gives a damn?)

 

 

 

 

If my attitude is brusque, then oh well. I don't appreciate tangents and off-topic "rabbit trails" trying to take me where I don't wish to go. Put more succinctly, try and stay focused on the subject at hand. (Whatever the hell THAT was? ) 'Preciate it.

[crazy-tiger]

Jesus once said that it is not what goes into a mans mouth that makes him unclean, but what comes out of it.

And the amount of shit you just vomited up would mean...?

Do you have any intelligent arguement or debate to offer on the original question?

If not your words are of no consequence to me.

 

Peace

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[Mythra]

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all (James 2:10)

 

Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified (Gal. 2:16)

Question further by all means

Peace

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Oh, I get it! D'oh! You were trying to make the point that the bible is riddled with contradictions. Sorry. I just woke up and I'm not up to speed yet.

[Razor]

No need to question further if you don't answer the original question with anything intelligible.

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Its Ok Mythra,

I know its a lot to take in, Ive posted a link here that explains what the Scripture means, in short any deed of your flesh will never make you righteouse in the sight of God, because Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven.

 

The section on the Stumbling Stone God placed for the keepers of the Law to trip over, explains it further as well.

 

If you read the entire article which is one page, you would probably understand where Universal Salvationists like me are comming from, no matter what you choose to believe yourself.

 

For your Perusal http://www.gospelfortoday.org/jteachings/rightwithgod.htm

 

Peace

[Ouroboros]

Without the spirit of truth. You only know words. Never the full meaning.

Crappola.

 

As you may or may not know? satan has studyed the bible for many years. And still does not understand it. as he did all he could to destory JESUS and could not. he is real alright.

So the Power of God's Word is faulty, weak, powerless? You're saying GOD'S MIGHTY POWER is POWERLESS. Wow. The Contradiction of an eternity. But hey... I knew that already. Of course God is powerless, because he doesn't exist.

 

You think all those thoughts that go though your mind are yours?

Spirit1st. You are delusional, and need to seek medical treatment. Schizofrenia is not something to play with. You need pills to get rid of those voices in your head.

 

All those evil thoughts, are they who you really are? Of course not!

READ THIS: I don't have EVIL THOUGHTS in my head. Where the FUCK did you get that from? Did the voice in your head tell you that? If so, that proves 100% that you're not from God, and God is not talking to you, because I am not thinking evil thoughts. But I fear that you are!!! It wouldn't surprise me that you walk around with evil thoughts, and you just judge other people from your own problems.

[crazy-tiger]

...you would probably understand where Universal Salvationists like me are comming from, no matter what you choose to believe yourself.

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[Mythra]

,

I know its a lot to take in, Ive posted a link here that explains what the Scripture means, in short any deed of your flesh will never make you righteouse in the sight of God, because Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven.

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Boy, I'm just struggling here. Are you basically saying that any deeds of my flesh will never make me righteous in the sight of God, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven?

[Mythra]

Or, are you saying that any deeds of my flesh will never make me righteous in the sight of God, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven?

Boy, this stuff is so COMPLICATED.

[crazy-tiger]

Or, are you saying that any deeds of my flesh will never make me righteous in the sight of God, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven?

Boy, this stuff is so COMPLICATED.

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I guess he means that only our spirit can get to heaven, and anything out flesh does is not counted against us...

 

Of course, if that is the case, then everyone gets to go to heaven.

 

Nice thought, but totally contradicts Jesus when he mentioned that only a few would go to heaven...

[spirit1st]

You see?We are 3 parts.Spirit soul and body.Once born of GOD?We can not sin.Because we are spirits 1st.They are protected forever by the HOLY BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST.But the flesh will sin and cannot help its self.But if we walk in our spirits?We will not sin.Because the spirit is highter than the flesh.

razor,NEW JERUSALEM is our home and it comes down to the new earth ,after the new earth is made.

Another thing,once born of GOD.We are living in these bodys ,but are no longer part of this world.We are new creatures born of GOD.JESUS CHRIST died that we could be remade in our spirits.We can clearly see?The body dies.

The mistake people make when reading the bible is?They judge everything by the flesh.When in truth.We have too look at it and think?Which part of me is this talking about.Because in one place, it says we are sinners.in another?It says we cannot sin.One speaks of the flesh.The otrher the spirit.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I hope I have answered your question.

[Mythra]

Dude. I'm messin with ya. I could teach this shit.

[Clergicide]

You are a very asinine person Danny.  Explain to me oh, great one, if your sins were paid for and the law is "no" more then WHY IN THE OT PROPHECIES ABOUT THE MESSIANIC REIGN are the laws still being observed?  If Jesus did away with the law, (which, he didn't that's Paulianity) then why is will it be in effect during the messianic reign?  Was jesus's sacrifice only temporary until he comes back again?  Was it not good enough?  Christianity does not mesh with the OT it contradicts it.

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I'm still waiting for a good answer to this myself. Jesus made it very clear that the Law was very much still in effect and to be upheld. There is even a large section of Romans dedicated to a debate over which is most important to observe, the Law or belief and love for Jesus, and the conclusion was both. It is only Paul who claimed the OT Law was void, and since that contradicts both God and Jesus it would seem to make Paul a heretic...or else God and Jesus are both wrong.

 

 

God:

 

Genesis 9:9-10 -  “And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.”

 

[Dueteronomy 12:1] These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

 

God makes this claim countless times in the OT, but these two help illustrate that he means every man and every beast are included in His covenant, and the covenant includes all of the laws, statutes and commandments given to Moses.

 

 

Jesus:

 

Matthew V:17-19 - 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

Luke  XVI:16-17 - 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

 

Romans:

 

Romans 2:12-14 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.

 

So do tell, where does Paul get off claiming that Law need not be observed and obeyed?

[Guest aexapo]

It is only Paul who claimed the OT Law was void, and since that contradicts both God and Jesus it would seem to make Paul a heretic...or else God and Jesus are both wrong.

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Ah, but see, clergicide, you're not grasping the whole dual nature of God and his gospel; he was not only man AND god, but he was also right AND wrong! Geeesh!

 

That's the good thing about being Christian -- you can not only have your "Dinner-on-the-ground," but you can eat it, too!

[Amanda]

Wow you guys! I've been gone a little while... and there's been an explosion!

 

First, I'd like to address my friend, Daniel. I truly understand where you are, and believe me.... the ExCs know quite a bit about where you are too. I say this with the utmost respect to you.

 

Please allow me to ask you to consider these aspects in regards to your post to me...

Galatians 6:10

 

6  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--

7  which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

9  As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

10  Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

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Now, I know this will be difficult... yet, can you see how this may pertain to most of the religous right? If God is compassion, mercy, and unconditional love... let's teach that! (Please read James 3) The 'eternal' condemnation here is for those as long as they teach as gospel anything other than God's Love. Maybe once we teach unconditional love (still having accountability), there can be no more condemnation to us?

 

Daniel, let me respectfully and humbly remind you what Jesus said... whatever you do to the least of these, you do unto him. Just a thought...

 

AND Daniel, remember we know those of Christ by their fruits... NOT their 'labels'. Sincerely my friend, I've been on this site a little longer than you... and from my experience here, there is a wealth of wonderful knowledge, freely shared! You don't have to agree with everything they say... THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO DO SO! These fine people here only want to encourage us to think for ourself!

 

IMHO, FWIW... Sit back, be friends, you can turn this situation around, you'll become a better person... I know I have. I can see that you are a wonderful person, yet there is an immense opportunity to grow here if you can allow a respectful open mind. It's give and take.

[Vixentrox]

No your not taken over by a demon.Every person on earth .Gets thoughts that are not there thoughts.You know?We can only study one thing at a time.

We could be watching T.V. Then a thought pops in your head.You think?Why am I thinking of that.Well it was not your thought.It came from GOd or a demon.

Happens to everyone on earth!

I am sure ,it can happen at any time and does!

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So much for free will if I can't even control my own thoughts.

[Clergicide]

Ah, but see, clergicide, you're not grasping the whole dual nature of God and his gospel; he was not only man AND god, but he was also right AND wrong!  Geeesh!

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My Holy Spirit decoder ring must be on the fritz.

[All Gods Fail]

A: Though I have commited my life to Christ 2.5 years ago, saying that "we" are "generally more literate in the scriptures" than me, is based on nothing.  Though, as those scriptures say -- demons believe in God, and tremble.  I imagine Satan knows the scriptures quite well also.  Furthermore, I'm *quite* sure there are Christians who have been at it longer than "we" have been alive, are much more well versed than many of us, and yet remain Christian.  So, if you are using that as a bases for your disbelief, it is ill founded.

 

Oy...I was attempting to show to you that you're not exactly covering any new ground for us. I figured the 'Satan knows scriptures' bit was right around the corner.

 

To return yet again to my original point - we know! We get it! That's what I was trying to get across to you! We aren't misguided, we aren't the victims of false beliefs and/or teachings about the gospel.

 

We've all not only heard the gospel, we once believed it, studied it, preached it ourselves, and now DO NOT BELIEVE IT! There are as many reasons for our disbelief as there are members on this board, but that's one thing we all have in common.

 

Get over yourself. Like I said, you are parroting everything I learned at my church. You are not a unique snowflake.

 

B: Are you asking me to leave?

 

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you Danny?

 

C: You can't possibly know YOU WERE ME.  How do you presume to know the entirety of my character, my will, and the thoughts and intents of my heart which you have not seen, yet you believe to know you were once the SAME as me? Yet still, you profess it impossible to know God, whom you have also not seen?  So... it is possible for you to know you and I were the same person, though you are without hardly any knowledge of me... other than I also profess Christianity like you once did. There are countless many other things that remain unseen, and you make such a claim as "we were you..."  The unseen God, you cannot compute. Hrm...  Speaking of spirit of deception.

 

See my above comments. And my previous comments. And the comments before that.

 

One last try - you believe and profess the very things we used to believe and profess. THE EXACT SAME THINGS! I don't claim to know your exact personality, your favorite soft drink, or your taste in cheese. But you are on the same road we once traveled, and for the same reasons.

 

If you still aren't getting it, I give up.

 

D: You have come to the conclusion that what I might spew would all be lies, but you don't know that... you hope that.  If you heard it from a lot better witness than me, than you are even moreso without excuse.

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YOU hope that it's not all lies. I know that the book you keep quoting is bullshit. I just wish I had been smart enough to figure that out in the beginning - I would have a lot of wasted years back and avoided needless suffering.

 

Now that you declare me 'without excuse', will you give up preaching at me?

[Mythra]

Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal 5:5  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 3:23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I hope I have answered your question.

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Ya really like that letter to the Galatians, doncha?

 

How bout giving us a couple quotes from James or Matthew just to balance things out? Or maybe 1st Peter:

 

"Slaves submit yourselves to your masters"

 

One of my fav's.

[Saviourmachine]

Matt 25:33 Baaaa

Hi Paul. Hihi. You've made very clear with your posts that being religious and being spiritual is a completely different thing.

[Saviourmachine]

You see?We are 3 parts.Spirit soul and body....One speaks of the flesh.The otrher the spirit.

Translation, thanks to the atheist babelfish and spare part of my own brain:

 

"See? There are the 3 parts of the spirit to them like soul and body as soon as we saw the birth of god! The sin cannot see us, because the spirits always protect us for the holy blood of darling christus. But our meat and sin cannot be helped. Only if it is in our spirit! We visit sins because the spirit hiccups just as a the knife. New Jerusalem is our house and it returns again with respect to the New Earth. The New Earth becomes... Another thing, once been born of god, we lived in these bodys. But we are not a part of this world. We are the new creatures born more of a died god. An extreme jesus christ! Renew could = shoot = in our spirit. We can see? Light the body matrices! The errorpeople do to us - when the reading of the right bible is very meat - like if they are in the truth. We participated to examine and think? We are also this speech, because we are in a place. Said he "do not say sinners in another"? It to us: we can sinspeak of the Otter meats the spirit."

 

Yeah!

[Ouroboros]

"See? There are the 3 parts of the spirit to them like soul and body as soon as we saw the birth of god! The sin cannot see us, because the spirits always protect us for the holy blood of darling christus. But our meat and sin cannot be helped. Only if it is in our spirit! We visit sins because the spirit hiccups just as a the knife. New Jerusalem is our house and it returns again with respect to the New Earth. The New Earth becomes... Another thing, once been born of god, we lived in these bodys. But we are not a part of this world. We are the new creatures born more of a died god. An extreme jesus christ! Renew could = shoot = in our spirit. We can see? Light the body matrices! The errorpeople do to us - when the reading of the right bible is very meat - like if they are in the truth. We participated to examine and think? We are also this speech, because we are in a place. Said he "do not say sinners in another"? It to us: we can sinspeak of the Otter meats the spirit."

Almost very spiritual and meat meets flesh concurred, I feel. Extremely find dialectic orgams with regards of lined intricate quotas, and planetary fidelity. Inherit widely more knowledge by extra clueless juxta positions and flailed coaster salmons! Nice tender pencil Joshua-Ex-Machina!

[MQTA]

If he fulfilled it then WHY is it STILL in effect during the Messianic REIGN!!!  The Messianic Reign MEANS THAT THE "MESSIAH" IS REIGNING!!! 

 

That you all fail to answer, tells me that you just blindly accept the NT to the point of neglecting and outright voiding the OT altogether.  It is a contradiction and not just a tiny one either, this is HUGE!!  However, it is wouldn't be a contradiction without Pauline epistles.  Oh, there are many more contradictions with Jesus but right now I'm particularly set on hearing your ANSWER to the question posed.

 

BTW... You old testament law voided Christians are aware that there many denominations who disagree with your views that the law is abolished, aren't you?

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Probably because they're told what they're to believe is in he OT, and never look beyond quoted passages, do any comparisons, research, critical thinking. This is what they're taught, 'it must be right'.