marmot Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Again....Come Lord Jesus Come....I remember singing that...then I found out what that meant....now I'm thinking location...location...location.... You beat me to it! Gawd, I even found it inappropriate back then... It's just that I get an image of Jesus coming on someone's face or something.... Excuse my while I laugh my ass off right now... Jesus is a dirty fella. I just had an awful image of the holy spirit in the background cheering Jesus on to "superman that ho!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 was watching a youtube video of Ravi Z. He posed very interesting questions for thought. Some included: When an individual rejects the existence of God, what are they affirming in its place? In an amoral universe (like atheism), how do you invoke a moral judgement? It's true, how does pond scum that results in reconfiguration of cells have a moral compass? Ah, the Holy Spirit was definitely felt through this video for me. I need to meditate on these questions some more so bye for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 was watching a youtube video of Ravi Z. He posed very interesting questions for thought. Some included: When an individual rejects the existence of God, what are they affirming in its place? In an amoral universe (like atheism), how do you invoke a moral judgement? It's true, how does pond scum that results in reconfiguration of cells have a moral compass? Ah, the Holy Spirit was definitely felt through this video for me. I need to meditate on these questions some more so bye for now. Ugh. I can't stand those pseudointellectuals that buy the bull that Ravi and others like him sell. Even when I was a Christian I never really liked reading apologetics books because they struck me as mental gymnasts. CS Lewis was the only one I ever liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 was watching a youtube video of Ravi Z. He posed very interesting questions for thought. Some included: When an individual rejects the existence of God, what are they affirming in its place? In an amoral universe (like atheism), how do you invoke a moral judgement? It's true, how does pond scum that results in reconfiguration of cells have a moral compass? Ah, the Holy Spirit was definitely felt through this video for me. I need to meditate on these questions some more so bye for now. Ugh. I can't stand those pseudointellectuals that buy the bull that Ravi and others like him sell. Even when I was a Christian I never really liked reading apologetics books because they struck me as mental gymnasts. CS Lewis was the only one I ever liked. She's an Associate Chemist too, ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Again....Come Lord Jesus Come....I remember singing that...then I found out what that meant....now I'm thinking location...location...location.... You beat me to it! Gawd, I even found it inappropriate back then... It's just that I get an image of Jesus coming on someone's face or something.... Excuse my while I laugh my ass off right now... Jesus is a dirty fella. I just had an awful image of the holy spirit in the background cheering Jesus on to "superman that ho!" Think of it...if god is omnipotent...then he's seen some pretty fucked up porn....i wonder if he has an addiction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 There is no "blind faith," really--faith results from seeing the unseen! Fundie Commenter: If you can't "see it" you don't really have faith for for it! You go girl! Pastor's Wife: most misunderstood concept in the body of Christ, probably! Is this a stab at you and J? It sounds like PW is trying to convince herself that what she believes is really true. ("The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat...") Gawd. That is so sad. Oh hideous day when she wakes up and realizes she has thrown away so much for something that wasn't even true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 There is no "blind faith," really--faith results from seeing the unseen! Fundie Commenter: If you can't "see it" you don't really have faith for for it! You go girl! Pastor's Wife: most misunderstood concept in the body of Christ, probably! Is this a stab at you and J? It sounds like PW is trying to convince herself that what she believes is really true. ("The earth is flat. The earth is flat. The earth is flat...") Gawd. That is so sad. Oh hideous day when she wakes up and realizes she has thrown away so much for something that wasn't even true. Sounds deluded for life. Probably will be that blue haired old lady still chanting verses to herself when she's 90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Again....Come Lord Jesus Come....I remember singing that...then I found out what that meant....now I'm thinking location...location...location.... You beat me to it! Gawd, I even found it inappropriate back then... It's just that I get an image of Jesus coming on someone's face or something.... Excuse my while I laugh my ass off right now... Jesus is a dirty fella. I just had an awful image of the holy spirit in the background cheering Jesus on to "superman that ho!" Think of it...if god is omnipotent...then he's seen some pretty fucked up porn....i wonder if he has an addiction? He has probably seen some really good stuff, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 There is no "blind faith," really--faith results from seeing the unseen! Fundie Commenter: If you can't "see it" you don't really have faith for for it! You go girl! Pastor's Wife: most misunderstood concept in the body of Christ, probably! Is this a stab at you and J? Right on, Pos. We definitely think that it is. J had a FB conversation on the wall of a former church friend and we think this was P's response to that. I'm glad you pointed this out. Part of me was still wondering if we were just being too sensitive or imagining things. But if you even caught that as an outsider, I guess we were right to take it that way. I'm so over this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 There is no "blind faith," really--faith results from seeing the unseen! Fundie Commenter: If you can't "see it" you don't really have faith for for it! You go girl! Pastor's Wife: most misunderstood concept in the body of Christ, probably! Is this a stab at you and J? Right on, Pos. We definitely think that it is. J had a FB conversation on the wall of a former church friend and we think this was P's response to that. I'm glad you pointed this out. Part of me was still wondering if we were just being too sensitive or imagining things. But if you even caught that as an outsider, I guess we were right to take it that way. I'm so over this shit. I'm over this shit to. Here's my goodbye FB rant to my former xian friends: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/52112-so-i-finally-ranted-about-my-former-xtian-friends-on-facebook/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenerGal Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Christian lady: "God just knocked my socks off!!" Christian response: "Way to go God!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Christian lady: "God just knocked my socks off!!" Christian response: "Way to go God!" God loves a cheerful cheer team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Christian lady: "God just knocked my socks off!!" Christian response: "Way to go God!" So in 9 months we have jesus jr? Sorry still stuck on the erotic christian lyrics thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Hey, JBlueep and 2Honest have inspired me and tonight I posted a quote by Peter Rollins on my wall. It goes: "It's very easy for us to believe. To doubt, now that's difficult. To be open to interrograting your beliefs. To be open to questioning those things that have nurtured you and sustained you up until this point. It can be so traumatic to question what your ancestors knew to be good, noble and true. To actually hold up to the light of day the tradition that those people you love, those people who brought you up held to, that is profoundly difficult." This is my first step! JB and an online friend gave it a "Like". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I found this gem on Reddit. It made me want to stick my head into a blender after reading the OP's reasoning/grammar. If it is too small to read go to http://i.imgur.com/8ZReU.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I found this gem on Reddit. It made me want to stick my head into a blender after reading the OP's reasoning/grammar. If it is too small to read go to http://i.imgur.com/8ZReU.png OMFG that was painful......more please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 http://www.ex-christ...820#entry770711 so sister responded. Sister: *sigh* I knew when I left it simple that you would twist and turn it until you could prove your point. =P Me honestly it didn't take much twisting since at least 2 of them are obviously fictional. Yesterday at 3:59pm · Like Sister: Ahhh... Thus you acknowledge that perhaps not all of them are fictional. You know to what my statement was referring and your statement was an intentional redirection to stay away from acknowledging my point. =P Me no it was not an intentional misdirection. by you claiming that all of them are the same, then you are stating God A = God B = God C =....etc etc. I didn't need two examples. Because just one is obviously fictional and because you stated the were all the same and by implication all equal. They are all false. Yahweh included. My statement admitted nothing. The logic is sound. That said. Even your initial statement is incorrect. They are not the same. Ra and Poseidon for example are anthropomorphic representations of natural forces. Which is not the same as Tyr who is a representation of sacrifice for the greater good. Tyr is also where were Tuesday from and in Norse tradition was the day of the week reserved for trials. Which again is not the same Dionysus who is the Greek god of wine, revelry, drunkenness, madness and rebirth. Dionysus was killed every winter and then came back in the spring and is older then Jesus. So they obviously are not the same god with different names. They were all creations of the imagination of man to help explain things they did not have the words to (nature realted), or to represent concepts to an illiterate populous. Now what was intentional was not completing the previous comment because I figured you would interpet what said in the manner you did. Thanks for not disappointing Sister So in choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional, do you choose then to not explore the wonder of this world and try to understand it? Science has only taken us so far and often contradicts itself with a new discovery. Sister Does science itself not fall under that same definition? Me No science does not. Science is not static. It is always in motion. Every discovery and mistake leads to new understanding, these new understanding then get incorporated or outright replace what was previously thought. As an example, physicists do not get together every Sunday and sing songs and worship gravity with the expectation that worshiping gravity will make sure it works for another week. Gravity works. We currently have theories as to how it works. There are even hypothesis as to a connection between how atoms work and the workings of gravity. Me These theories change as new information is discovered. Because theories are not static. The universe is not static. Science marches on. Ironically, if it didn't you could be dead right now. Because science discovered magnetic resonance, the MRI was invented. BEcause science learned about the electric impulses that keep the heart beating the ECG was invented. Because of this medical technology, the hole in your heart was eventually discovered and fixed to prevent a potential cause of a future stroke. Because of germ theory the drs were finally able to make the connection to the blood virus you had/have. Granted that probably wouldn't've killed you but it did posses the potential for serious complications. Me My sense of wonder at the world is more profound now then ever it was before. The assumption you make that lack of belief in any god must mean I don't see any beauty in the world is, frankly, a bit insulting. The implication behind that question is one that I have heard before. Essentially, Non-believers are spiritually dead. To go further is setup a dichotomy. They are not us. Therefore, they do see the world like us. Some in the extremes of christianity would take it further and imply that They are not human. I don't believe for a minute that you think that. I am just expressing why I find it insulting. To answer the question directly. I try to understand it through science. For example, the sun gives off yellow-white light. Plants use light to produce food through photosynthesis. Yet science has discovered that plants grow better if they are given a specific segment of the red spectrum of white light. So then if plants use it directly for food, why isn't the sun red instead? I am always testing what I think I know. I am always examining why I am taking a course of action that I am. It always suprises me how much the garden changes in a day. It always amazes me how much Dexter and Edith change in a day. At the core, it is never wonder at god's creation. It is wonder and evolution. It wonder at how humans took seeds of one plant and by observation and selection produced thousands of varieties of tomatoes. The sheer questioning and testing that I see Dexter do every day. How he will try different approaches with people skills. How he will watch me do something and then mimic it and when he fails the first time keeps trying again. That is not god that is sentience. That is a developing mind. I find it more amazing that we are made from stardust, then I ever found in church or god. EDIT: Me My question then to you: Why do you need to believe in god to have a sense of wonder? More to the original shared quote: Since all of these gods are from different traditions and cultures. Why is it that you believe in the Christian God? More specfically, why is it that you believe as our parents believe? And why if Allah, Vishnu, Yahweh are all the True God are most of their followers people who were raised to believe that? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Great arguments, stryper. I did notice one missed opportunity, though: Sister So in choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional, do you choose then to not explore the wonder of this world and try to understand it? When I debate someone who uses the "choice" card, I always point out that that's a misunderstanding. I have not chosen to reject their god any more than I've chosen to reject Santa Claus. It's not like we're sitting at a smorgasbord of equal beliefs and we just choose what we want. We evaluate the evidence and let it lead where it may. The only "choice" there is in deciding to accept the evidence rather than squelch it, but that is not the same thing as "choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional." (And even that is not necessarily a "choice," since the evidence can be so overwhelming that we cannot ignore it.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Deleted accidental double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Great arguments, stryper. I did notice one missed opportunity, though: Sister So in choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional, do you choose then to not explore the wonder of this world and try to understand it? When I debate someone who uses the "choice" card, I always point out that that's a misunderstanding. I have not chosen to reject their god any more than I've chosen to reject Santa Claus. It's not like we're sitting at a smorgasbord of equal beliefs and we just choose what we want. We evaluate the evidence and let it lead where it may. The only "choice" there is in deciding to accept the evidence rather than squelch it, but that is not the same thing as "choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional." (And even that is not necessarily a "choice," since the evidence can be so overwhelming that we cannot ignore it.) I would have to disagree and that is probably why I didn't pursue it. I personally believe in the power of choice. Thus the reason I have said in other posts "My life is my choice". In this case, my choice was to choose to see the myths as stories told by a generally illiterate and non-technical people to explain natural phenomenon and concepts. When looked at through that lens, it becomes obvious as to why there were so many gods. Each was trying to express a different concept, so when they were wrapped up into one and the stories were hammer welded, very badly, together, it suddenly makes more sense as to why the Christian God is a psychological nut job. As to the bolded, never under estimate the power of sentience to believe a delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat674 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 this midweek masterpiece comes from England; "When Heaven confronts us in our mistakes, it is like the Lord encountering Job and saying, “Prepare yourself like a man…” (Job 38:3) Walking in the light is not for wimps. It requires a deep faith in God’s love and in the power of His grace to provide what we need to change. This kind of thing just makes my head spin, cannot believe I used to listen to this rubbish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenerGal Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I found this gem on Reddit. It made me want to stick my head into a blender after reading the OP's reasoning/grammar. If it is too small to read go to http://i.imgur.com/8ZReU.png And he still couldn't do us the consideration of correcting his grammar. Really takes away the umph in calling someone a "bitch". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Great arguments, stryper. I did notice one missed opportunity, though: Sister So in choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional, do you choose then to not explore the wonder of this world and try to understand it? When I debate someone who uses the "choice" card, I always point out that that's a misunderstanding. I have not chosen to reject their god any more than I've chosen to reject Santa Claus. It's not like we're sitting at a smorgasbord of equal beliefs and we just choose what we want. We evaluate the evidence and let it lead where it may. The only "choice" there is in deciding to accept the evidence rather than squelch it, but that is not the same thing as "choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional." (And even that is not necessarily a "choice," since the evidence can be so overwhelming that we cannot ignore it.) I would have to disagree and that is probably why I didn't pursue it. I personally believe in the power of choice. Thus the reason I have said in other posts "My life is my choice". In this case, my choice was to choose to see the myths as stories told by a generally illiterate and non-technical people to explain natural phenomenon and concepts. When looked at through that lens, it becomes obvious as to why there were so many gods. Each was trying to express a different concept, so when they were wrapped up into one and the stories were hammer welded, very badly, together, it suddenly makes more sense as to why the Christian God is a psychological nut job. As to the bolded, never under estimate the power of sentience to believe a delusion. That's fine. If it was a choice for you, then of course you wouldn't argue along those lines. As for myself, it was absolutely not a choice. If it had been, then I would have chosen to remain within the comfort of the worldview I had always held. If I could have chosen, then I would still be a Christian. I could not choose, though, because the evidence before me was overwhelming. I did not want to give up my faith, but it was beyond my control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 When I debate someone who uses the "choice" card, I always point out that that's a misunderstanding. I have not chosen to reject their god any more than I've chosen to reject Santa Claus. It's not like we're sitting at a smorgasbord of equal beliefs and we just choose what we want. We evaluate the evidence and let it lead where it may. The only "choice" there is in deciding to accept the evidence rather than squelch it, but that is not the same thing as "choosing to believe that all Gods are fictional." (And even that is not necessarily a "choice," since the evidence can be so overwhelming that we cannot ignore it.) You make a damn fine point. I've seen people who "choose" to believe something they know deep down isn't true. I "chose" to believe that my Evil Ex was a man of God and turned a blind eye to his millions of faults and abuses and lies. I "chose" to believe that Christianity was true for years despite knowing perfectly well that there was no evidence behind any of it (I just thought that "no evidence" doesn't mean "disproving evidence," because I didn't know that actually yeah there was tons of that too). But the phrasing isn't quite right. That kind of "choice" is more like intentionally wearing blinders than "choosing to believe" or not believe. If "choosing to believe" means that I intentionally, willfully disregard mountains of evidence against a fact and damage my life and others' lives defending that fact, then is that really a positive? We don't use the idea in a positive light in any other arena save religion, but I challenge people who still think that way to examine just why religion gets a free pass while in every other case, "choosing" to believe something untrue is decidedly a negative. I don't think it's a case of "choosing to believe" more than it's a case of purposefully ignoring facts. It's pathetic that someone would even try to trot that card out. It tells me that the person using that argument knows more than he thinks he knows and is gleefully, willfully, disregarding his own truths. You can't "choose to believe," but you can "ignore all damning evidence in favor of your happy little lie." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 OMFG that was painful......more please Ask and ye shall receive. Reddit (and stupid Christians) delivered another beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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