An Email From The Father-In-Law

[Exevolt]

Dear Dad,

 

Thank you for your concern. I know that you love both of us dearly.

 

Talia and I are working through these issues of faith and religion, and we will continue to do so exclusively with each other. In that regard, my wife and I alone are going to handle our marriage issues and how to raise our children to the best of our ability, with no lack of love and understanding on our part.

 

At this time, we both agree that discussions with you on religion and faith (including issues related to our marriage, the raising of our children, any doubts, etc.) will be off-limits, for the purpose of maintaining mutual peace between us.

 

In order to avoid what may appear to be an attempt to undermine my place as <wife>'s husband, or an attempt to manipulate <wife>'s emotions, I would suggest sending your emails only to me and not carbon-copying <wife>, since you did not address <wife> at all in your email. Otherwise the impression given is that you may be trying to pit <wife> against me, her husband.

 

Lastly, nothing has changed from my perspective with regards to my love and responsibility towards my wife and children.

 

Thank you again for the taking the time to write.

 

With love,

 

Jeremy

I'd say this sounds about the right way to phrase it as it's straight forward but SHOULDN'T cause more problems 'less the guy is a total whoo haa.

[electech98]

I will give this more time to simmer, and then bring it to my wife tonight or tomorrow night to get her opinion.

 

By the way, Exevolt, I noticed I accidentally left the name of my wife at the beginning of the second line of the email. I edited my original, but am wondering if you could edit your quote to take out the name and replace it with <Wife>? Thanks!

[FeelHappy]

I will give this more time to simmer, and then bring it to my wife tonight or tomorrow night to get her opinion.

 

By the way, Exevolt, I noticed I accidentally left the name of my wife at the beginning of the second line of the email. I edited my original, but am wondering if you could edit your quote to take out the name and replace it with <Wife>? Thanks!

 

You also left your father in laws church website in the first post, someone could go there and listen to his sermon and also find out his name. (and therefore everyone else's name).

[ConureDelSol]

I will give this more time to simmer, and then bring it to my wife tonight or tomorrow night to get her opinion.

 

By the way, Exevolt, I noticed I accidentally left the name of my wife at the beginning of the second line of the email. I edited my original, but am wondering if you could edit your quote to take out the name and replace it with <Wife>? Thanks!

 

You also left your name. Don't know if you care or not though.

[electech98]

I will give this more time to simmer, and then bring it to my wife tonight or tomorrow night to get her opinion.

 

By the way, Exevolt, I noticed I accidentally left the name of my wife at the beginning of the second line of the email. I edited my original, but am wondering if you could edit your quote to take out the name and replace it with <Wife>? Thanks!

 

You also left your father in laws church website in the first post, someone could go there and listen to his sermon and also find out his name. (and therefore everyone else's name).

I'm not that much concerned with the website, since that is public domain and anyone could find the website if they wanted to. But, just in case, I'll edit it out.

[marmot]

My blood was literally boiling from reading his letter. It was so caustic and authoritarian to me that I could hardly read it (it could also be partially because I am in the closet right now and have not yet told my wife).

 

By the way, in total creeper fashion I was able to find your blog (which still says that God is one of your interests and the Holy Bible is one of your favorite books...might want to rectify that at some point ). Just pointing it out that with a couple of names (one of them unique) it is pretty easy to find people IRL.

[electech98]

My blood was literally boiling from reading his letter. It was so caustic and authoritarian to me that I could hardly read it (it could also be partially because I am in the closet right now and have not yet told my wife).

 

By the way, in total creeper fashion I was able to find your blog (which still says that God is one of your interests and the Holy Bible is one of your favorite books...might want to rectify that at some point ). Just pointing it out that with a couple of names (one of them unique) it is pretty easy to find people IRL.

Haha, thanks for the heads-up! I haven't touched that blog in 3 years

[Akheia]

And now we discover why sex blogging has slowed down so much in the last few years.

[RankStranger]

I know I'm not in your shoes, and this may not be practical for you. But if I got a letter like that from ANY relative of mine, the best they could hope for is to never hear from me again.

 

More likely they would hear from me, and I'd burn that bridge down.

[LuNa81]

A few mod suggestions.

 

Dear <FIL's name>,

 

Thank you for your concern. I know that you love both of us dearly.

 

I do however take exception that you undermined my authority as a husband by copying <wife's name> with the email. I see this is nothing more than underhanded manipulation of your daughter's emotions at this time.

 

<Wife's name> and I are

currently

working through these issues of faith and religion, and we will continue to do so exclusively with each other. In that regard, my wife and I alone are going to handle our marriage issues and how to raise our children to the best of our ability, with no lack of love and understanding on our part.

 

At this time, we both agree that discussions with you on religion and faith (including issues related to our marriage, the raising of our children, any doubts, etc.) will not be permitted, for the purpose of maintaining mutual peace between us.

Please understand that this is for the better

.

 

Nothing has changed from my perspective with regards to my love and responsibility towards my wife and children.

 

Thank you again for the taking the time to write.

 

With love,

 

Jeremy

Thank you for the suggestions. I will be using at least some of them...I can guarantee that inserting the line "I do however..." would spark a firestorm, and they could accuse me of purposefully misrepresenting my FIL, etc. I will see if I can use the same idea but with different wording.

 

Let me try this:

 

Dear Dad,

 

Thank you for your concern. I know that you love both of us dearly.

 

<Wife> and I are working through these issues of faith and religion, and we will continue to do so exclusively with each other. In that regard, my wife and I alone are going to handle our marriage issues and how to raise our children to the best of our ability, with no lack of love and understanding on our part.

 

At this time, we both agree that discussions with you on religion and faith (including issues related to our marriage, the raising of our children, any doubts, etc.) will be off-limits, for the purpose of maintaining mutual peace between us.

 

In order to avoid what may appear to be an attempt to undermine my place as <wife>'s husband, or an attempt to manipulate <wife>'s emotions, I would suggest sending your emails only to me and not carbon-copying <wife>, since you did not address <wife> at all in your email. Otherwise the impression given is that you may be trying to pit <wife> against me, her husband.

 

Lastly, nothing has changed from my perspective with regards to my love and responsibility towards my wife and children.

 

Thank you again for the taking the time to write.

 

With love,

 

Jeremy

Perfect! I hope there is a good outcome to all of this.

[blackpudd1n]

And now we discover why sex blogging has slowed down so much in the last few years.

 

...Sex blogging? What is sex blogging? Wow, I really am innocent!

[stryper]

And now we discover why sex blogging has slowed down so much in the last few years.

 

...Sex blogging? What is sex blogging? Wow, I really am innocent!

 

Basically, people would blog about their sex lives...or sex in general....however, just based on what you know about US, it should come as no surprise that people have lost careers over it once their RL name somehow got linked to the blog.

 

The was a lady here in Saint Louis that lost her job with a non profit, when she accidently linked her personal/professional twitter account to her sex blog twitter account. It only was linked for about 2hrs but in that time someone found out about it and reported it. They said she didn't represent what the company was about.

 

[blackpudd1n]

And now we discover why sex blogging has slowed down so much in the last few years.

 

...Sex blogging? What is sex blogging? Wow, I really am innocent!

 

Basically, people would blog about their sex lives...or sex in general....however, just based on what you know about US, it should come as no surprise that people have lost careers over it once their RL name somehow got linked to the blog.

 

The was a lady here in Saint Louis that lost her job with a non profit, when she accidently linked her personal/professional twitter account to her sex blog twitter account. It only was linked for about 2hrs but in that time someone found out about it and reported it. They said she didn't represent what the company was about.

 

 

But why would someone blog about their sex life in the first place?

[stryper]

why do people blog about cats? Woodworking? Hunting? atheism?

 

pretty much the same reasons.

[blackpudd1n]

why do people blog about cats? Woodworking? Hunting? atheism?

 

pretty much the same reasons.

 

...people get off on that? Never mind, I'm going to stop derailing this thread, I'll get my fiancee to explain it to me when he comes home tomorrow. I feel like there's something going over my head right now.

[stryper]

it's not that people get off on cats.........

 

moving on.

 

People blog about things they have an interest in or have an expertise in. So people blog about cats and others about sex.

 

Back on topic.

 

 

 

I think your response electech was concise and to the point. I don't envy your position. It is not an easy one.

[SageHealer]

OMG.

 

I was shocked by the arrogance in his letter and totally blown away by your mature, respectful, thoughtful reply.

 

I hope all goes well for you and your family. Unfortunately, debating people like this rarely works (although you could always guide him to Bart Ehrman's books about the unreliability of the bible).

 

For what it's worth, just keep being loving (especially to yourself). Living well is truly the best revenge. Xtians hate it when we're happy.

[Thought2Much]

Living well is truly the best revenge. Xtians hate it when we're happy.

 

Ain't that the truth.

[FeelHappy]

Unfortunately, debating people like this rarely works (although you could always guide him to Bart Ehrman's books about the unreliability of the bible).

 

When you're as entrenched as this guy appears to be, I doubt he'd read Ehrman and if he did, I can't imagine it making much difference.

[electech98]

Unfortunately, debating people like this rarely works (although you could always guide him to Bart Ehrman's books about the unreliability of the bible).

 

When you're as entrenched as this guy appears to be, I doubt he'd read Ehrman and if he did, I can't imagine it making much difference.

When you are a Christian, it is easy to dismiss the critics even if you read all the way through their books. Confirmation bias goes a long, long way unfortunately. Only after having a good reason for doubting, or after much exposure to the criticisms, will it be easier to see the other side of it. Doubt starts within, as a tiny seed, that must be nourished and watered to produce any good fruit. (haha, just like faith)

 

But when you're a pastor, there's even more incentive to cling to the belief. Not only for your faith's sake, but also because it is how you support your family. As a result, I am even less trusting of pastors than ever before to be objective listeners to those who are doubting. In the end, they are paid propagandists.

[FeelHappy]

But when you're a pastor, there's even more incentive to cling to the belief. Not only for your faith's sake, but also because it is how you support your family. As a result, I am even less trusting of pastors than ever before to be objective listeners to those who are doubting. In the end, they are paid propagandists.

 

Well I think part of it had to do with the blinders our world view sometimes places on us, if you believe that the bible is 100% correct and any apparent conflict with itself or science is only a lack of understanding on our part. This is why in the face of the evidence for evolution, a YEC can easily reject the obvious facts and say "do you believe god or man"

 

I think one thing I think most of us here have in common is that first time we actually questioned the bible or god. The christian apologist reads an apparent contradiction with the scripture and his mind instantly knows that god is correct so therefore there ins't a contradiction so he has to make up ways to get around this error. For many of us, we accidentally asked why is this contradiction here if the bible is inerrant, this small opening for doubt is what shattered our world view, if you don't allow that small seed of doubt to get in you can easily ignore the obvious.

 

Back in my fundie days I spent hours working on my own re-interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis with the obvious truth of Evolution. I had this bizarre idea of day age genesis account where god took a group of humoniods and selected one molded him breathed his spirit into him and then the man became Adam, this further explained where the extra people came from which Cain married and ran from ect. My problem came when I finally quit trying to work everything out and just finally asked the obvious, what if genesis is wrong, everything shattered after that first crack.

[electech98]

But when you're a pastor, there's even more incentive to cling to the belief. Not only for your faith's sake, but also because it is how you support your family. As a result, I am even less trusting of pastors than ever before to be objective listeners to those who are doubting. In the end, they are paid propagandists.

 

Well I think part of it had to do with the blinders our world view sometimes places on us, if you believe that the bible is 100% correct and any apparent conflict with itself or science is only a lack of understanding on our part. This is why in the face of the evidence for evolution, a YEC can easily reject the obvious facts and say "do you believe god or man"

 

I think one thing I think most of us here have in common is that first time we actually questioned the bible or god. The christian apologist reads an apparent contradiction with the scripture and his mind instantly knows that god is correct so therefore there ins't a contradiction so he has to make up ways to get around this error. For many of us, we accidentally asked why is this contradiction here if the bible is inerrant, this small opening for doubt is what shattered our world view, if you don't allow that small seed of doubt to get in you can easily ignore the obvious.

 

Back in my fundie days I spent hours working on my own re-interpretation of the first few chapters of Genesis with the obvious truth of Evolution. I had this bizarre idea of day age genesis account where god took a group of humoniods and selected one molded him breathed his spirit into him and then the man became Adam, this further explained where the extra people came from which Cain married and ran from ect. My problem came when I finally quit trying to work everything out and just finally asked the obvious, what if genesis is wrong, everything shattered after that first crack.

My first cracks came from reading John Loftus' books, with his Outsider Test of Faith. Essentially, he called for Christians to stop using double-standards for evaluating their own faith as opposed to other faiths. The reasons we reject other faiths is what we should also use in examining our own.

 

Around that time, too, I changed my presupposition from "The Bible is the inerrant, infallible, inspired Word of God" to "Truth is truth no matter where it leads, and I can be wrong about any of my beliefs".

 

If the search for TRUTH led me to the notion that the Bible was correct, so be it. If it did not, I finally resolved within myself that TRUTH was the ultimate goal no matter if it meant rejecting everything I once believed.

 

You can see how well THAT turned out!

[electech98]

Well, here's an interesting twist to the story: my father-in-law and my pastor are at an annual denominational meeting back east, and my FIL has just heard from my pastor about me resigning as deacon and the reason stated (no longer holding to the tenets of Christianity). Remember, my FIL was only under the impression that I was wavering or having doubts as a believer before, and I never had the chance to send a response back to him on his original letter.

 

But now that he knows I am an unbeliever, this is what he fired off to me last night:

 

Dear Jeremy

 

I'm at Synod and have had opportunity to speak with your pastor.

I don't know what set off this apostate mind set you've been exhibiting, and I don't think it really makes any difference.

My primary concern at this point is not even the consequences for which God will hold you accountable and I pray you'll soon repent,

but my primary concern is what you are doing to your family - you took vows when you married my daughter and you took vows at at the baptism of your children.

I'm holding you accountable to keep those vows no matter what you personally, willfully, stubbornly, sinfully, arrogantly, selfishly and most foolishly are not fighting to keep the devil from darkening your understanding. Consider this a butt-whipping and I pray the Lord will slap you upside the head and clear your head and heart of this pride at the root of this. You need to hear this: dump all this reading that denies the Truth - all treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Christ, and you are letting persuasive words of false philosophy sway you. Stop it!!!! I'm holding you responsible to do due diligence - get your mind into Scripture and out of whatever you are feeding your tickled ears. You are deeply hurting my daughter out of pure selfish motives. Consider :; husbands love you wives like Christ loved church and gave Himself up for her. Do it!! Repent now!! This is a serious as it gets!! What you do is before the face of God!!!! Go talk with <pastor> now.

 

Dad

 

Haha, I have to laugh at this more than anything...strangely enough, I'm not even angry with this email. In all honesty, I just see it as sad...sad that a grown man feels he has to resort grunting and snorting to get his point across and in trying to intimidate people into submission.

 

At least now I can modify my original response with the knowledge that he knows of my unbelief. Boundaries will be put in place, and his level will not be stooped to.

[florduh]

He's 'holding you accountable'??? Tell him to fuck off. Don't expect a peaceful coexistence with the religious fanatics no matter how nice you are about 'setting boundaries'.

[sarahinprogress]

No time to read the whole thread right now so ill just say a few thoughts on the letter:

 

one: He makes it very clear that its HIS daughter and HIS grandchildren you're 'corrupting'. that pisses me off sooo much. The biblical right of the father to his offspring.

 

two: "But read nothing but Scripture and books that affirm the doctrines of Scripture and once again you will come to know both intellectually and experientially" : PUT THOSE BLINDERS BACK ON!!! DONT YOU DARE LOOK AROUND! While you're at it, bury your head back in the sand! This is the most upsetting thing about this denomination right now, and xtianity as a whole. If it was true, then reading outside sources, sources that deny it WOULDN'T effect my belief because it would STAND UP TO SCRUTINY!

 

UGH!

 

sorry, i probably took out some of my own frustration on you there...good luck responding, keep us posted