An Email From The Father-In-Law

[Akheia]

I personally liked the letter but these guys may be right about losing that one paragraph; anything that keeps it shorter is probably better. A carefully placed adjective might be in order to do away with some of it.

[buffettphan]

I like the letter also, but maybe might think twice about including this:

 

I know the events of the past few weeks have put you off-guard, so I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If there is a point down the road that you would like to communicate with me on these issues with all due respect, courtesy, and reasonableness, then I will consider it.

 

Good luck! You are in a rough situation, but I think it is a good sign that your wife doesn't want to be in the middle. Do you think it's possible that she would send a brief message of her own saying "I concur with my husband" or something to that effect?

[mcdaddy]

I personally liked the letter but these guys may be right about losing that one paragraph; anything that keeps it shorter is probably better. A carefully placed adjective might be in order to do away with some of it.

 

"Fuckin'"? "shithead"? those are adjectives.

 

edit: dammit, shithead is a noun.

 

'shitty'. there.

[electech98]

Alright, another take:

 

Dad,

 

Thank you for expressing your concerns.

 

Nothing has changed from my perspective with regards to my love and responsibility towards my wife and children. My love and care for them will not change, regardless of whether or not I have any specific belief system.

 

At this time, discussions between you and me on religion and faith (including issues related to our marriage, the raising of our children, etc.) will be off-limits. However, if there is a point down the road that you would like to communicate with me on these issues with all due respect, courtesy, and reasonableness, then I would be more than willing to consider it. As you are not in a position of authority over me, my wife, our children, or our marriage, I am asking you to respect the boundaries placed here.

 

<wife> has indicated to me that she would like to be left out of the middle, so please do not CC her in your emails that are addressed only to me.

 

Jeremy

[marmot]

I like it. You have put him in his place. I don't think he will react well to it and I think he will immediately try to undermine you by going directly to your wife. I hope you can withstand this storm.

[Smiffy]

Ouch that letter must have hurt that he wrote to you! But good and fare reply.

It is so important to question things to know if things are true or not, the Bible even says that!

But coming from his side what ever happened to non judgemental, patience, love and kindness ect????????

Wether it is a struggle in faith you have r a complete loss of it, there needs t be understanding from the other side as it effects so many areas in life that you have to learn to live with.

I think personally I would have lost my rag with him over it, but im sure you are a lot more calm in your response

I hope things will blow over for you and that he will be supportive in a non judgemental way.

Take care.

[mcdaddy]

Send it out!

[electech98]

One last call for opinions or suggestions before I send it out today. I know Memorial Day Weekend is usually busy, so I'm not sure if people had a chance to take a look yet.

[TrueFreedom]

I am not sure that I would be calling him "Dad" at this point, but I think that what you have is great.

[electech98]

I am not sure that I would be calling him "Dad" at this point, but I think that what you have is great.

True, I could just leave off the "Dad" and start the email at "Thank you for expressing your concerns".

[Zephie]

I am not sure that I would be calling him "Dad" at this point, but I think that what you have is great.

True, I could just leave off the "Dad" and start the email at "Thank you for expressing your concerns".

 

I concur. It is good to see that you're wife doesn't want to be in the middle of all of this.

[Peace]

I think it's good! You should be proud of yourself for taking the high road.

 

 

If you want me to nit pick I'd say leave off 'Thank you for your concerns' because you are not at all thankful and don't want to encourage him. A simple 'I received your emails.' might work.

 

I also might not include the part about considering conversations in the future. He has proven he doesn't know what reasonable or respectful is and I can't imagine you actually want to give any more info than necessary to someone so toxic and immature.

 

Just being nit picky, like I said.

 

Hoping against hope it sits well.

[electech98]

I think it's good! You should be proud of yourself for taking the high road.

 

 

If you want me to nit pick I'd say leave off 'Thank you for your concerns' because you are not at all thankful and don't want to encourage him. A simple 'I received your emails.' might work.

 

I also might not include the part about considering conversations in the future. He has proven he doesn't know what reasonable or respectful is and I can't imagine you actually want to give any more info than necessary to someone so toxic and immature.

 

Just being nit picky, like I said.

 

Hoping against hope it sits well.

I just want to leave the door open in the future if he truly wants a calm and adult conversation, if he realizes his arrogance and manipulations, and "repents" of them. I don't want to shut the door forever on a relationship with him, if he is truly willing to calm down and be civilized. It's not a promise to converse with him in the future, it is only a promise to *consider* conversing with him in the future.

[mick]

You already mention a pretty decent geographical distance. Part of me thinks you should just dismiss him outright. "Services no longer needed". SOmetimes I think us "ex-christians" feel almost too strong a need to carry the battle back at the forces of christianity. His email shows he is an ass. (religiously speaking) I deconverted nearly 7 years ago. I'd like a lot of the time back I spent typing shit out to people who are never going to change. Just clearly dismiss him as unneeded, and save your children from him.

[blackpudd1n]

I am not sure that I would be calling him "Dad" at this point, but I think that what you have is great.

True, I could just leave off the "Dad" and start the email at "Thank you for expressing your concerns".

 

I agree. Calling him "dad" would be like giving him some leverage, and would only reaffirm to him that you do, despite what you say, see him as being in a position of authority over you and your family.

[electech98]

Well, it is done.

 

This is what I sent a minute ago:

 

I am in receipt of your emails dated May 7 and May 22, 2012.

 

Nothing has changed from my perspective with regards to my love and responsibility towards my wife and children. My love and care for them will not change, regardless of whether or not I have any specific religious belief system.

 

At this time, discussions between you and me on religion and faith (including issues related to our marriage, the raising of our children, etc.) will be off-limits. However, if there is a point down the road that you would like to communicate with me on these issues with all due respect, courtesy, and reasonableness, then I would be more than willing to consider it. But as you are not in a position of authority over me, my wife, our children, or our marriage, I am asking you to respect the boundaries placed here.

 

<wife> has indicated to me that she would like to be left out of the middle, so please do not CC her in your emails that are addressed only to me.

 

Thank you,

 

Jeremy

 

Now to try to compose an email to my pastor for "outing" me without even asking for my permission.

[Peace]

Well, it is done.

 

This is what I sent a minute ago:

 

I am in receipt of your emails dated May 7 and May 22, 2012.

 

Nothing has changed from my perspective with regards to my love and responsibility towards my wife and children. My love and care for them will not change, regardless of whether or not I have any specific religious belief system.

 

At this time, discussions between you and me on religion and faith (including issues related to our marriage, the raising of our children, etc.) will be off-limits. However, if there is a point down the road that you would like to communicate with me on these issues with all due respect, courtesy, and reasonableness, then I would be more than willing to consider it. But as you are not in a position of authority over me, my wife, our children, or our marriage, I am asking you to respect the boundaries placed here.

 

<wife> has indicated to me that she would like to be left out of the middle, so please do not CC her in your emails that are addressed only to me.

 

Thank you,

 

Jeremy

 

Now to try to compose an email to my pastor for "outing" me without even asking for my permission.

Well done. I wish I had a family composed of people like you.

 

FTR I think what your former pastor did is pretty raunchy. I can only imagine he was foaming at the mouth to get the gossip out.

[buffettphan]

 

Now to try to compose an email to my pastor for "outing" me without even asking for my permission.

 

Great letter to the FIL.

 

I'd be really pissed about the breach of confidence on the part of the pastor. Totally unethical.

[blackpudd1n]

Now to try to compose an email to my pastor for "outing" me without even asking for my permission.

 

Great letter to the FIL.

 

I'd be really pissed about the breach of confidence on the part of the pastor. Totally unethical.

 

I didn't know pastors had an ethics system.

[mcdaddy]

PERFECT, ET. very authoritive and sends a "fuck you I'm my own man and you don't own me beeeeoootttcchhh" Without saying so. good job.

[buffettphan]

Now to try to compose an email to my pastor for "outing" me without even asking for my permission.

 

Great letter to the FIL.

 

I'd be really pissed about the breach of confidence on the part of the pastor. Totally unethical.

 

I didn't know pastors had an ethics system.

 

Silly me! You're right of course! Just seems to me that the confidentiality should fall under the same guidelines as any other kind of therapist. Especially since they like to fancy themselves as counselors -- even if they have no training, credentials, expertise, or empathy!

[marmot]

"I am in receipt..." sounds overly cold but that is better than obsequious. I am curious to see how he responds...I see him flying off the handle. Not that I know him. Good luck!

[blackpudd1n]

Now to try to compose an email to my pastor for "outing" me without even asking for my permission.

 

Great letter to the FIL.

 

I'd be really pissed about the breach of confidence on the part of the pastor. Totally unethical.

 

I didn't know pastors had an ethics system.

 

Silly me! You're right of course! Just seems to me that the confidentiality should fall under the same guidelines as any other kind of therapist. Especially since they like to fancy themselves as counselors -- even if they have no training, credentials, expertise, or empathy!

 

I totally agree with you, but I have noticed that for many pastors, ethics are trumped by concerns for one's eternal salvation. It's like they have compartmentalised ethics, or ethics only up until a point.

[electech98]

OK, first draft of letter to pastor (definitely longer because he needs to know why I am calling him out):

 

<Pastor>,

 

I am in receipt of an email from my father-in-law on May 22, 2012 in regards to your conversation with him and your revealing to him my unbelief.

 

This revelation from you to him was in breach of confidence and was unwarranted. Due to how important all of my relationships with friends and family are, especially during this time in my life, the handling of the situation is of utmost importance and it is not for others to go spreading around details of my unbelief without my permission. I was in the middle of composing a reply to my father-in-law's email from May 7 due to his concerns after speaking with my wife, and it was in this reply that I would have thoughtfully and carefully explained the situation to him with accuracy. However, now you have effectively "outed" me to him before I even had a chance to finish the reply. Because of this, my response to his original email is useless and my response to his May 22 email has had to be much different.

 

Having a position in the church (whether pastor, elder, deacon, etc.) does not give anyone the right to divulge such sensitive information to whomever they wish, especially to family and close friends. As I stated in my resignation letter from the office of deacon, I was hopeful that everyone would be able to proceed with much sensitivity in this situation. However, because this is not the first time this has happened by one of the church leaders (eg: Elder <name> divulging to his son our decision to leave <church> in the fall of last year when I had explicitly asked you not to tell anyone beside the elders), it is becoming clearer to me that I am less and less able to trust that whatever I say to you or to others will be held in confidence.

 

Because you were not aware of what my in-laws knew by the time Synod came around, it was your responsibility to obtain permission from me first to speak to them about my unbelief. Due to the very serious nature of my relationship with my in-laws, and how explosive this all can be, you know how much diligence and sensitivity is required in these situations. I was working toward that with them. Even though your intentions may have been good (though, knowing human nature's temptations to spread juicy gossip, it is hard to tell exactly what your intentions were), the resulting backlash can damage relationships beyond repair. It was not your place to decide when they were told or what they they were told.

 

Due to all of this, communication between you, me, and others in the leadership of the church on issues relating to religion and faith will be very limited, if not off-limits altogether. If you truly wish to know where I am coming from with all of my concerns with the Bible and with Christianity, I have already given you several book references to read. I have compiled a much larger list over time (including internet articles and YouTube videos/channels), and am willing to give you that list, but beyond that I am not willing to engage in any further communication in regards to the topics surrounding religion or faith at this time.

 

Jeremy

 

"Synod" is the annual gathering of pastors and elders from our denomination to conduct denominational business. FYI.

[Peace]

OK, first draft of letter to pastor (definitely longer because he needs to know why I am calling him out):

 

<Pastor>,

 

I am in receipt of an email from my father-in-law on May 22, 2012 in regards to your conversation with him and your revealing to him my unbelief.

 

This revelation from you to him was in breach of confidence and was unwarranted. Due to how important all of my relationships with friends and family are, especially during this time in my life, the handling of the situation is of utmost importance and it is not for others to go spreading around details of my unbelief without my permission. I was in the middle of composing a reply to my father-in-law's email from May 7 due to his concerns after speaking with my wife, and it was in this reply that I would have thoughtfully and carefully explained the situation to him with accuracy. However, now you have effectively "outed" me to him before I even had a chance to finish the reply. Because of this, my response to his original email is useless and my response to his May 22 email has had to be much different.

 

Having a position in the church (whether pastor, elder, deacon, etc.) does not give anyone the right to divulge such sensitive information to whomever they wish, especially to family and close friends. As I stated in my resignation letter from the office of deacon, I was hopeful that everyone would be able to proceed with much sensitivity in this situation. However, because this is not the first time this has happened by one of the church leaders (eg: Elder <name> divulging to his son our decision to leave <church> in the fall of last year when I had explicitly asked you not to tell anyone beside the elders), it is becoming clearer to me that I am less and less able to trust that whatever I say to you or to others will be held in confidence.

 

Because you were not aware of what my in-laws knew by the time Synod came around, it was your responsibility to obtain permission from me first to speak to them about my unbelief. Due to the very serious nature of my relationship with my in-laws, and how explosive this all can be, you know how much diligence and sensitivity is required in these situations. I was working toward that with them. Even though your intentions may have been good (though, knowing human nature's temptations to spread juicy gossip, it is hard to tell exactly what your intentions were), the resulting backlash can damage relationships beyond repair. It was not your place to decide when they were told or what they they were told.

 

Due to all of this, communication between you, me, and others in the leadership of the church on issues relating to religion and faith will be very limited, if not off-limits altogether. If you truly wish to know where I am coming from with all of my concerns with the Bible and with Christianity, I have already given you several book references to read. I have compiled a much larger list over time (including internet articles and YouTube videos/channels), and am willing to give you that list, but beyond that I am not willing to engage in any further communication in regards to the topics surrounding religion or faith at this time.

 

Jeremy

 

"Synod" is the annual gathering of pastors and elders from our denomination to conduct denominational business. FYI.

To be honest I think it's too long and possible repeats the same sentiment. Personally, I think short and too the point is always best.

 

I would compose an email of what you wish you could say and hope he would hear and not send it. Then I would compose a shorter edited version to actually send.

 

 

I am in receipt of an email from my father-in-law on May 22, 2012 in regards to your conversation with him and your sharing with him things that were told to you in confidence.

 

You took it upon yourself to 'out' me when you had no business doing so. Having a position in the church (whether pastor, elder, deacon, etc.) does not give anyone the right to divulge such sensitive information to whomever they wish, especially to family and close friends.

 

As I stated in my resignation letter from the office of deacon, I was hopeful that everyone would be able to proceed with much sensitivity in this situation. However, because this is not the first time this has happened by one of the church leaders (eg: Elder <name> divulging to his son our decision to leave <church>in the fall of last year when I had explicitly asked you not to tell anyone beside the elders), it is becoming clearer to me that I cannot trust that what I say to you or to others will be held in confidence.

 

If you truly wish to know where I am coming from with all of my concerns with the Bible and with Christianity I have already given you several book references to read that will give you good insight. From this point on, however, communication between you, me, and others in the leadership of the church on issues relating to religion and faith will be very limited, if not off-limits altogether.

 

I was trying to edit it down but keep what I thought you might have seen as the major points. Just a suggestion.