An Email From The Father-In-Law

[bornnormal]

I agree, keeping your calm would be the badassest thing to do, but If I could ignore the fact that he is related to your wife/kids I would totally dissect his faith:

 

Dear "dad",

 

Sorry that I'm not able to believe any more in the authority of a book that is partially (OT) a collection of the mythological fables of ancient sheep-herding, desert-dwelling tribesmen who were strangely fond of genocide, blood sacrifice, slavery and the oppression of women, and partially (NT) the documents of a 1st century end-of-the-world cult that were assembled from scraps, and appended and amended by different committees of the institutionalized state church of the Roman Empire 300-400 years after the alleged life and death of Jesus.

I am awfully sorry but I can't take the doctrine of salvation seriously anymore, since I know that there were no Adam and Eve to commit the original sin in the first place.

 

Given that the whole of the bible is nothing more than truckloads of mythological bullcrap, and there are absolutely no evidence for any supernatural claims, and the concepts of creation, salvation and sin do not even make sense in the light of the facts, I now tell you that you have every right to be ashamed of your beliefs. However I do not condemn you for them. I just simply pity you.

 

If you think that your unfounded and laughable faith, and your lifelong achievement of ignoring the facts of reality gives you any authority over me and my family, think again!

 

Keep your head up pops!

 

Kisses:

Sonny

 

[mcdaddy]

I agree, keeping your calm would be the badassest thing to do, but If I could ignore the fact that he is related to your wife/kids I would totally dissect his faith:

 

Dear "dad",

 

Sorry that I'm not able to believe any more in the authority of a book that is partially (OT) a collection of the mythological fables of ancient sheep-herding, desert-dwelling tribesmen who were strangely fond of genocide, blood sacrifice, slavery and the oppression of women, and partially (NT) the documents of a 1st century end-of-the-world cult that were assembled from scraps, and appended and amended by different committees of the institutionalized state church of the Roman Empire 300-400 years after the alleged life and death of Jesus.

I am awfully sorry but I can't take the doctrine of salvation seriously anymore, since I know that there were no Adam and Eve to commit the original sin in the first place.

 

Given that the whole of the bible is nothing more than truckloads of mythological bullcrap, and there are absolutely no evidence for any supernatural claims, and the concepts of creation, salvation and sin do not even make sense in the light of the facts, I now tell you that you have every right to be ashamed of your beliefs. However I do not condemn you for them. I just simply pity you.

 

If you think that your unfounded and laughable faith, and your lifelong achievement of ignoring the facts of reality gives you any authority over me and my family, think again!

 

Keep your head up pops!

 

Kisses:

Sonny

 

 

But I REALLY like this. The hedonistic side of me wants you to send this. Damn that would be FRIKKIN GREAT

[Akheia]

Oh, I loved Bornnormal's letter, but I admit just telling the old man you're disappointed in his domineering, controlling behavior and will be auto-deleting any further emails from him will probably drive him crazier than trying to debate or fight with him. But do make sure your wife knows that if he knows you're auto-deleting him and still tries to write and CC her, that it's nothing more than driving a wedge into your marital bond with her. It's got to be putting her in a really tough situation, choosing between her father and faith on one hand and her loving husband and family on the other, but choose she must--because her father has thoughtfully forced her to.

[mcdaddy]

HE WANTS TO DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN THEM. that's his MO at this point. It's not as if he'll back off if he thinks he's causing that. It's what he wants. To Cast out de debil.

[blackpudd1n]

I'd tell him they're being auto-deleted, but keep them just in case. You might need those emails at some stage, Electech.

[Akheia]

Nothing makes a codependent-acting control freak crazier than just not being engaged. Being that kind of fundie entails a certain confrontational, aggressive mindset. Notice how he just got more aggressive when Elec sent a nice, non-confrontational, boundary-setting letter?

 

You know, one thing I'm noticing on these threads that I just now realized. It isn't the non-believers who are throwing in the towel and saying "fuck it, I just don't believe, OUT YOU GO BITCH." I don't think I've even once seen that on this site. It's the believers who are struggling to maintain their footing in an otherwise solid marriage and who are suddenly questioning the strength of their relationships. And it's the believers who are trying to drive the non-believers away from what they should be believing is a sacred bond that Jesus himself created that admits no defeat except fooling around. Isn't that peculiar? Oh wait, no it isn't.

[electech98]

Nothing makes a codependent-acting control freak crazier than just not being engaged. Being that kind of fundie entails a certain confrontational, aggressive mindset. Notice how he just got more aggressive when Elec sent a nice, non-confrontational, boundary-setting letter?

 

You know, one thing I'm noticing on these threads that I just now realized. It isn't the non-believers who are throwing in the towel and saying "fuck it, I just don't believe, OUT YOU GO BITCH." I don't think I've even once seen that on this site. It's the believers who are struggling to maintain their footing in an otherwise solid marriage and who are suddenly questioning the strength of their relationships. And it's the believers who are trying to drive the non-believers away from what they should be believing is a sacred bond that Jesus himself created that admits no defeat except fooling around. Isn't that peculiar? Oh wait, no it isn't.

Just to clarify, I never sent the first letter...I was still tweaking it a bit, but never got the chance to send it before the FIL found out about my absolute apostasy from my pastor this week while they are at an annual denominational meeting.

[mcdaddy]

Almost every christian knows their religion is bullshit. But you'll never get them to admit it. They know it in the deepest parts of themselves, especially in this day and age, because EVERYTHING about the world we've learned screams against it. But they love their little quasi-world, and dammit, they don't want to give up their warm fuzzy blanket. Thats why my best friend, a moderately devout christian, didnt even try to "save me" after I told him I had left. I wasnt offended, I just realized he doesnt buy into it on a subconscious level. But he'll profess it "just in case" he's right. If I was god and I saw someone do to me what my friend did (not bat an eyelash to try and save me), that person would be guilter than me of my disbelief, because he "had belief" and didnt exert any strength whatsoever to prevent me from eternal damnation. I would send that person to hell sooner than a person who disbelieved based on scientific evidence.

[electech98]

Almost every christian knows their religion is bullshit. But you'll never get them to admit it. They know it in the deepest parts of themselves, especially in this day and age, because EVERYTHING about the world we've learned screams against it. But they love their little quasi-world, and dammit, they don't want to give up their warm fuzzy blanket. Thats why my best friend, a moderately devout christian, didnt even try to "save me" after I told him I had left. I wasnt offended, I just realized he doesnt buy into it on a subconscious level. But he'll profess it "just in case" he's right. If I was god and I saw someone do to me what my friend did (not bat an eyelash to try and save me), that person would be guilter than me of my disbelief, because he "had belief" and didnt exert any strength whatsoever to prevent me from eternal damnation. I would send that person to hell sooner than a person who disbelieved based on scientific evidence.

The fact that my wife and sister and others became more fervent in prayers and personal devotion and such after I revealed my disbelief to them is more of a telling sign that they are desperately trying to convince THEMSELVES that what they believe in is true.

[Suzanne]

I'd vote against completely ignoring him - better to send him a really short e-mail, not engaging him, just to say you're not getting into this discussion and you'll be auto-deleting any follow up emails. That way you've been completely clear about your intentions, might turn out to be useful later on. I hope you and your wife are ok, I can't imagine how straining this would be.

[FeelHappy]

Memory is a shitty thing which autocorrects itself, but I don't remember thinking that Christianity was BS when I considered myself a devout christian, but there's no way to go back and see if my memory of the situation was the actual situation.

 

I remember bowing my head praying for hours for god to save some of my "lost" loved ones and I don't think I was trying to convince myself that christianity was true, instead I was afraid they were going to burn forever in a lake of fire if I didn't do something and do something now (which oddly was to pray lol).

[electech98]

I'd vote against completely ignoring him - better to send him a really short e-mail, not engaging him, just to say you're not getting into this discussion and you'll be auto-deleting any follow up emails. That way you've been completely clear about your intentions, might turn out to be useful later on. I hope you and your wife are ok, I can't imagine how straining this would be.

I will probably think about it for a few more days before deciding whether to ignore his email, or whether to respond with a short reply. I think there were some good points made for ignoring his emails, but at the same time I continue to think that not responding would leave the door wide open for further childish behavior and an opportunity to drive a wedge between me and my wife. Or, even if I respond and set boundaries, he may choose to completely ignore those boundaries. But I guess at that point, I could just ignore any further emails from him.

[mcdaddy]

If others are going to pray for my disbelief, then they would be praying for me to see some kind of evidence right? That would convince me? If something solid hasn't been offered up after 2000 years, why do they think its all of a sudden going to pop into existence just for me?

 

The only way to remain a christian is to be cool with the fact that there is no evidence.

 

I may as well believe in FSM.

[electech98]

Memory is a shitty thing which autocorrects itself, but I don't remember thinking that Christianity was BS when I considered myself a devout christian, but there's no way to go back and see if my memory of the situation was the actual situation.

 

I remember bowing my head praying for hours for god to save some of my "lost" loved ones and I don't think I was trying to convince myself that christianity was true, instead I was afraid they were going to burn forever in a lake of fire if I didn't do something and do something now (which oddly was to pray lol).

I think it's more that, in my case at least, it is easy to be caught off-guard by someone professing unbelief in something they used to believe in. Then, being caught off-guard (which allows doubt to creep in), defensive walls automatically come up and there is the illusion of feeling even more RIGHT than before.

[mcdaddy]

I'd vote against completely ignoring him - better to send him a really short e-mail, not engaging him, just to say you're not getting into this discussion and you'll be auto-deleting any follow up emails. That way you've been completely clear about your intentions, might turn out to be useful later on. I hope you and your wife are ok, I can't imagine how straining this would be.

I will probably think about it for a few more days before deciding whether to ignore his email, or whether to respond with a short reply. I think there were some good points made for ignoring his emails, but at the same time I continue to think that not responding would leave the door wide open for further childish behavior and an opportunity to drive a wedge between me and my wife. Or, even if I respond and set boundaries, he may choose to completely ignore those boundaries. But I guess at that point, I could just ignore any further emails from him.

 

I still think ignoring is the best option, not because it's the most civil, but because I feel that responding to utter childishness by an elder adult only reinforces it, to some degree. When he can write an email that actually treats you like the man you are, and is civil in tone and word, then an exchange can take place. just my 0.02.

 

Dont throw pearls before swine.

[electech98]

I'd vote against completely ignoring him - better to send him a really short e-mail, not engaging him, just to say you're not getting into this discussion and you'll be auto-deleting any follow up emails. That way you've been completely clear about your intentions, might turn out to be useful later on. I hope you and your wife are ok, I can't imagine how straining this would be.

I will probably think about it for a few more days before deciding whether to ignore his email, or whether to respond with a short reply. I think there were some good points made for ignoring his emails, but at the same time I continue to think that not responding would leave the door wide open for further childish behavior and an opportunity to drive a wedge between me and my wife. Or, even if I respond and set boundaries, he may choose to completely ignore those boundaries. But I guess at that point, I could just ignore any further emails from him.

 

I still think ignoring is the best option, not because it's the most civil, but because I feel that responding to utter childishness by an elder adult only reinforces it, to some degree. When he can write an email that actually treats you like the man you are, and is civil in tone and word, then an exchange can take place. just my 0.02.

I heartily agree. I would just hope that if I did ignore him, he wouldn't take that as some sort of victory on his part that would have left me speechless or left me cowering in a corner.

[mcdaddy]

Who cares WHAT he thinks. His thinking ability is highly questionable on a good day. If he thinks he won, maybe thats a good thing and he'll stfu.

[electech98]

I'm trying to think long-term here, though. If no boundaries are set, will that come back to haunt me in the future when the in-laws come to visit? When he talks to my wife? When the mother-in-law gets involved and either starts talking to my wife or tries to contact me? Etc.

[FeelHappy]

I think it's more that, in my case at least, it is easy to be caught off-guard by someone professing unbelief in something they used to believe in. Then, being caught off-guard (which allows doubt to creep in), defensive walls automatically come up and there is the illusion of feeling even more RIGHT than before.

 

Yeah I could see that, I guess the best way I'd imagine it is if my fundi father came and told me he didn't believe, I think that would be more shocking that someone who never was fully in the fold saying the same thing.

[florduh]

I'm trying to think long-term here, though. If no boundaries are set, will that come back to haunt me in the future when the in-laws come to visit? When he talks to my wife? When the mother-in-law gets involved and either starts talking to my wife or tries to contact me? Etc.

Have you noticed how most people get really angry at your situation? Why don't you? Appeasement is not a solution and the asshole will not ever begin to recognize any boundaries. He should be totally removed from your life, and the chips shall fall where they may.

[FeelHappy]

I'd say work on the boundaries, I think the greatest challenge to your marriage now, even more so than your unbelief is your FiL's influence on your wife. You need the boundaries while you work through these issues.

[mcdaddy]

He wont respect any boundaries. If i thought there was a decent chance, I'd give it that a try. From the information we have though, that seems exceedingly miniscule. If they wanted to come visit, then maybe have a short and sweet conversation, but only if he'd act like an adult. Otherwise if there is no pending plans to visit, leave it be.

 

Maybe cooler heads will prevail if you step back for a long time.

[LivingLife]

I have to side with Florduh on this. Perhaps we are just old farts that don't take shit from our wimmen and their parents. That said, my wife don't take shit from me either or my parents.

 

There are two ways this could be played out. You could become the asshole domineering husband the bible demands you be like uber authoritative or ask yourself, is your relationship one of mutual trust and dependency. My guess is you are not an asshole but it sure looks like you need to man up and lay down the law/boundaries.

 

Even relationships we fuck up from time to time and say stuff we regret later. That is being human.

 

IMO it appears you have lost your self respect and feel guilty for being a non believer bring this unwanted pressure into your marriage. If the marriage cannot survive this, then what can it survive.

 

Till you resolve this, this situation is going to be brought up time and again.

 

Have you scorned your wife?

Have you been unfaithful?

What exactly did you do that is sooooo terrybull?

 

Continue the list and come to a point of confidence again.

 

I dunno what the deal of your sister in law is but she needs to exit stage right. Your wife should be crying on your shoulder (confiding in you) not her sisters. Perhaps this is a bigger issue than mere accommodation.

 

If I mixed you up with someone else, ignore the SIL part.

[LoneTarus]

I'm trying to think long-term here, though. If no boundaries are set, will that come back to haunt me in the future when the in-laws come to visit? When he talks to my wife? When the mother-in-law gets involved and either starts talking to my wife or tries to contact me? Etc.

Have you noticed how most people get really angry at your situation? Why don't you? Appeasement is not a solution and the asshole will not ever begin to recognize any boundaries. He should be totally removed from your life, and the chips shall fall where they may.

 

I second this, although only partly his participation in your life depends on him recognizing who the boss is in this situation (not him) and sticking to those boundaries. if he can't toss the bum out.

 

But as to the rest of what I quoted he is totally right you need to get angry and aggressive he won't respect anything less. and ignoring him will encourage things to get even worse. he may even think he has "the spirits in you bound" or some other such nonsense. at the very least respond to both emails and make it crystal clear what your position is and that he needs to back the fuck off.

[mcdaddy]

If you do respond, make sure he knows that just because he's been on the earth longer (something you have no control over) doesn't make him any kind of authority over you, and that YOU are the one who has a legal obligation to your wife, NOT HIM (as she's over 18 and he's not any kind of legal guardian).

 

If this were YOUR own father, things wouldnt really be different, but that would change the dynamics a little, being family. You don't owe him SHIT. Not related, he's a fucking stranger that got lumped in due to being an (unfortunate) relation of your wife.