Pre Fall Of Satan, Pre Creation And Post Creation Evil Show That The Bible God Is Self Refuting. (Comments Criticism, Please!)

[bdp]

and I can't believe you'd actually quote such a braindead asshole as 'rayskidude' as your sig.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said:

 

@ Centauri

Cite the bible OT text that say the irreverent and censorious (who are very rebellious) will comprehend spiritual things. Cite the OT passage that say that people who use disingenuous practices of pitting different beliefs against each other by using google university as research, while ignoring the biblical stipulation of yielding to God and comparing scripture with scripture, will understand the bible. Dude all you do is read mostly Jewish propaganda and you do EVERY SINGLE THING that Rayskidude said.

 

centauri:

Well like you, rayskidude was an aspiring teacher/preacher that couldn't come up with an actual answer to a very simple request.

You're the zealots that make claims about the Bible displaying self-proving harmony.

If you're going to make such bold proclamations, be prepared to back them up with something more than Christian self-righteousness and imagined scriptural discernment.

The Jewish propaganda is their evaluation of what their scriptures mean.

 

Thumbelina said:

*raised eyebrow* You Centauri are full of shenanigans. You do not (PRESENTLY; I believe you did in the past, you seem to be an avid reader too) search the scripture for truth, you take a doctrine from here and a doctrine from there in order to create confusion (that's the spirit of Antichrist you know; I hope you stop, I still like you and don't want you to not be saved).

 

 

centauri said: You claimed the Bible displayed complete harmony, which isn't the case.

As for your claim that I don't search the scripture for truth, that's subjective.

I'll counter your jab by saying that your standard for truth is obviously much lower than mine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bible does harmonize with itself, darlin'. It is marvelooooous!

Sorry about that, I do see evidence that you searched and searched but your blasphemy annoys and worries me.

How do you determine truth, you infidel, you?!

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: How can someone reason with you when you plan on dismissing everything and you do not do what Rayskidude said one is supposed to do to understand?

 

 

centauri said: Do you take orders from the Pope?

I don't take orders from a pompous missionary.

 

 

 

I have the bible as canon (a measuring rod for truth) , therefore I am able to throw out the bathwater and keep the baby. I keep what the pope says that is true according to scripture and throw out what is false.

Pompous? Eh, you're the conspircay theorist of the ex-Christians.

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: The bible does prove itself to people with open hearts/minds. Show me in the bible where it says scripture is for persistent unbelievers with predetermined hearts. Show me where it says the scoffer has spiritual discernment. You as an unbeliever, an unbeliever, has placed yourself as a discerner of the bible, show the lurkers the scriptures where it says someone with an anti-gospel is able to do that.

 

 

 

centauri said:I didn't make the claim about the Bible displaying complete harmony, that was you.

That claim doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

When faced with the reality that it doesn't, you dismiss the problems by dismissing the person pointing them out.

In your universe, no unbeliever is ever qualified to question your claims.

 

 

It truly does harmonize, you just don't see it yet. I'm not dismissing you, how long have we been at this? <--- *rhetorical question* I've been impressed by you, I've said so many times.

[Thumbelina]

In your universe, no unbeliever is ever qualified to question your claims.

 

It's the perfect defense for utterly unsupportable claims. Even other believers hit a brick wall with her because they obviously aren't using their Bible correctly. Maybe I'll prepare for a debate with her by arguing with a small soap dish.

 

This is why I used to confuse you with bdp in the beginning, you guys sometimes talk alike.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: The Jewish propaganda is that God says all nations are to be blessed and given the opportunity for salvation and the Jews are exclusivist and don't give two shakes about the salvation of non Jews.

 

 

Centauri said: Jewish interpretation of their own scriptures makes far more sense than Christian ones, especially in cases where Christian writers ripped a verse out of context, which they did repeatedly.

 

Jewish interpretation of some portions of scripture does not make more sense! Their interpretation leaves out non Jews from the picture of salvation. The Jews have the ten commandment law so why do they not share it with their fellow man if they think keeping the law is the way of salvation. Many people do not keep the law.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: You are similar to Heretic in that you're somewhat helter skelter in trying to find a gospel; it ends up a discombobulated mess, an anti gospel as it were. You're not as looney as Heretic though, you have read and have been reading about the laws and you seem to understand some of them but you isolate texts to support the Jewish view (that Christ isn't God and is unnecessary) and you do it without the HS.

 

 

 

Centauri said: There are Christian denominations that don't believe Jesus is God.

A discombobulated mess would describe Christianity, which cannot agree on even basic doctrine.

As for having the Holy Spirit, would you care to try proving that you have it?

 

 

Truth is determined by the Word and NOT by any church denomination. Every church and every member has freedom of choice to embrace sola scriptura or NOT. The bible says people grow in grace and knowledge but they have a part to play in it, they have to be WILLING to advance. Some believers grow faster than others, everyone is not going to be at the same level at the same time!

How can I prove the HS to someone who does not believe? If you believed then your spirit would bear witness with my spirit that the bible is true and God loves us

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: You tie the hands of God with your choice; you tie the hand of the Christian who is willing to point out the scripture. However, there are certain things that I see you find questionable but your ears are stopped and you don't dialogue, you just automatically dismiss it by using the Jewish propaganda.

 

 

Centauri said: Indeed, the nerve of those uppity Jews.

They can't even interpret their own scriptures properly without having a Christian around to explain it to them.

 

The Jews have egg on their faces, they KNOW their prophecy said that Messiah was supposed to show up in the first century but because He did not show in the WAY they wanted Him to they rejected Him. They then had to revise the scripture to suit their private beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: The Christian who is trying to reason gives up because you are NOT communicating but just dismissing, you're not being a Berean! You then boast that the answer is not adequate, granted sometimes they are not , and you repeat the process thereby wasting people's time.

 

 

Centauri said: If your answers were even half-baked they might be useful.

The problem is that they're fully baked concoctions straight out of the Christian propaganda oven.

 

 

 

Eh, you're like blind Bartimaeus except he called to Jesus so he can see. what are you waiting on, huh?

 

Centauri said: Am I wasting your time?

Then I'm delighted to do so.

Every minute you spend here is one less minute you have to be jamming your rancid theology into the skull of some poor person in an effort to dominate them.

 

 

 

 

Father forgive him ... .

 

 

Thumbelina said: *mad* That's not very nice Centauri! I had a crazy-as-a-fruit-bat atheist on another cite do the same trick except he used the SAB website; it's a way of closing ones ears and causing others to stumble too.

 

 

Centauri said: As I wrote earlier, holding you accountable is not a "trick".

 

Plugging your ears and not comparing the scriptures is a trick.

 

 

 

 

Thumbelina said: IMO, I still think you're scared which is why you act the way you do. *sigh* If that's the case then I have to pray a 'father forgive him for he knows not what he's doing' prayer for you. Hopefully you will ditch your chicken-esque ways and you'll be saved and we'll end up meeting up in heaven

 

 

Centauri said: I'd say you're the unbeliever here.

You're unable to comprehend that any person would dare to question you.

You've received a tremendous amount of latitude here.

If you pulled your sermons and attitude on a Christian site that didn't agree with you, I'd wager you'd be tossed out within days.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? You're making stuff up. I'm an unbeliever?

I'm unable to comprehend how people can come up with an anti gospel when there's a wonderful gospel described in the bible.

It will be no surprise if SOME Christians do not hear the real gospel, the bible says some people will have itching ears etc.

[Thumbelina]

You up to a little, let's get serious Thumbsy discussion, just you are her?

 

 

I'm not much of a debater. Besides, I feel there is no progress to be made with such a quirky take on Christian mythology and the aforementioned fact that in her estimation, nonbelievers are not even qualified to discuss such subjects. Our opinions and points are irrelevant to her and therefore not even addressed in any other way than endless postings of Scripture; not an original thought in her head, apparently. Looks pretty dead end to me. (No offense intended, end3.)

 

 

 

 

I have looked at the bible and nowhere does it say that unbelievers are given supernatural insight in order to expound the scriptures. These are texts that say unbelievers don't get the deep things in scripture:

 

 

Matthew 11:25 http://bible.cc/matthew/11-25.htm <---- scripture is hidden from men who are wise in their own eyes.

 

 

 

Mark 4:11 http://bible.cc/mark/4-11.htm the secrets of the kingdom are given to believers.

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 2:10 http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/2-10.htm but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. <---- The us refers to believers

 

 

Revelation 1:1 <--- Jesus reveals Himself to His servants. I.e. believers

 

 

 

 

Amos 3:6-8 <---Jesus reveals His secrets to His servants

 

 

Luke 8:10 <----- Only the spiritually oriented could understand the parables.

 

 

Rev 21:6 <---- One must thirst for truth to get an understanding.

 

 

2 Timothy 2:15; Acts 17:11 <---- One must rightly divide the word and one must compare what is being taught to the scripture

 

....

 

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

 

 

......

 

 

 

 

Isaiah 26:10 NIV Though grace is shown to the wicked, they do not learn righteousness; even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil and regard not the majesty of the LORD.

 

 

 

......

 

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. <--- The unbeliever is not using scripture to make them wise unto salvation, so why are they (wrongly) interpreting it? They do NOT have the Holy Spirit.

 

 

 

 

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible"

... not that the bare reading of the Scriptures, or the hearing of them expounded, are able to make men wise in this way; but these, when accompanied with the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Christ, are; when he who endited the Scriptures removes the veil from their eyes, opens their understandings, and gives them light and knowledge in them: and then may persons be said to be wise unto salvation, when they not only have a scheme of it in their heads, but are in their hearts sensible of their need of it, and know that there is salvation in no other but in Christ; and when they look to him for it, to his righteousness for justification, to his blood for peace, pardon, and cleansing, to his sacrifice for atonement, and to his fulness of grace for a continual supply, and to him for eternal life and glory; when they rejoice in him and his salvation,

 

 

 

 

 

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:

 

 

through faith-as the instrument of this wisdom. Each knows divine things only as far as his own experience in himself extends. He who has not faith, has not wisdom or salvation.

which is in-that is, rests on Christ Jesus.

 

.................

 

 

 

1 Cornthians 1:21 <---- One needs to BELIEVE.

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:23 <---Christ crucified is foolishness to unbelievers, how can they share something they think is utter foolishness?

 

 

 

John 7:17 <---One has to be WILLING to do God's will to fully understand the gospel. God's will is not unbelief so how can an unbeliever have insight?

 

 

 

 

John 8:47 <--- People who do not hear the gospel do not belong to God so how are they given insight.

 

 

Belief, that measure of faith we ALL have is the prerequesite to understanding the gospel.

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, produce the scriptures that say people who flip the bird at God and blaspheme Him are given spernatural insight to rightly interpret scripture, to give a gospel. All you guys come up with is God of the bible is malevolent, therefore he does not exist.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I said that unbelievers/disbelievers don't have the HS, however unbelievers can be convicted by the HS and thus they can be put on the road to having the Holy Spirit, capiche? Believers have the Holy Spirit when they confess with their mouth and believe in their heart that Jesus is our Saviour.

[Spectrox]

 

The Jews have egg on their faces, they KNOW their prophecy said that Messiah was supposed to show up in the first century but because He did not show in the WAY they wanted Him to they rejected Him. They then had to revise the scripture to suit their private beliefs.

 

 

Please provide a reference for the prophecy you are talking about. Is it one from the Bible?

[Thumbelina]

Thumbelina said: Why don't you guys not get that the ten commandments are comprehensive? The passages are descriptions of God's grace, they're under the umbrella of the Decalogue.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you'd like to look into this post?: http://www.ex-christ...is/#entry806900

It's about the prohecies in Daniel that points to the arrival of the Messiah.

 

 

 

 

The Ten Commandments don't give a license to use a human as a sin sacrifice, it's illegal according to God's law on proper sacrifices.

 

God forbade the people from sacrificing humans but Jesus laid down His life for us. The nuances are unseen to unbelievers. Why do you think the manna stank and bred worms? What bread do you have in your cupboard that breeds worms and stink, Centauri? Bread gets moldy! Flesh gets the worms and the stench! Jesus is the living bread, the manna represented Him. Oooooh I wish you get that spittle and clay for your eyes.

[Thumbelina]

Grabs bags of popcorn!!

 

Sorry if your popcorn got stale Mr ... . How come you did not write "..." in this post?

[Antlerman]

I can't believe how much effort you put into these posts. You must really care about validation from those who don't think like you. A little insecure perhaps?

 

Show of hands. Who here cares?

[Thumbelina]

God created oratory too. Hitler was a good orator...

Dr. Godwin's in the ER attending to another patient, so I'll just say this: What is the Sermon on the Mount, if not oratory?

 

 

it's oratory that helps one be wise unto salvation.

 

It's not verbal abuse to disagree with someone if one is not threatening a person.

 

 

Absolutely false. Thumbelina, GLBT people have actually committed suicide because some religious wingnut in their family or church kept playing the "sin" card on them. Words were spoken in an attempt to bully those unfortunate individuals into denying their own sexuality, and the stress and self-loathing led to them taking their own lives.

 

 

 

There are manipulative people out there and I understand that some people of the GLBT community do get discriminated against and abused and that is sad. What people need to do is to be respectful of others choices but at the same time leaving room for polite disagreement. Both parties need to not call regular disagreement hate speech when it is just disagreement.

 

 

It's a moot point, though -- As soon as you start describing a person in terms of sin, in effect you're saying that your imaginary friend is planning to torture that person. That is indeed verbal abuse.

 

As for your silly assertions about Crowley and the music business, I'll take "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" over the Sinner's Prayer any day of the week.

 

 

You don't even know what sin is. God is not a torturer, people will face the consequences of their choices and therefore actions. Yeah, I know you're an inadvertent Crowleyan.

[Thumbelina]

Ask the guys in that Men In Black movie. I don't really know where it's at...

We've suspected *that* for some time now, Thumbelina. :-D

 

 

 

Hardy ha ha. I think the same about you guys

[Thumbelina]

nut-bag

 

Hmmmm, hi Pell Mell

[Thumbelina]

 

 

Mr Boy, I remember you, you were QUITE feisty. Did you mellow out some?

[Thumbelina]

 

Precisely. Thumbelina wants to clone us in her image, and that image is not something any thinking, feeling human should aspire to.

 

We ALL need to be remade into God's image.

[Thumbelina]

Can we get back on topic? Thumby's mud wrestling career. I'm sure she's much better at that than she is at explaining and proving her crackpot theology.

 

 

Do you suppose she comes here because we're the only ones who respond to her? My bet is they ban her the minute she starts sending all of them to hell too. ....

 

I like you guys, even the frightened chickadees . I am not sending anyone to hell, people send themselves there; I am trying to prevent that, d'uh.

[Thumbelina]

 

I suspect that aspiring Christian preachers see this site as "low hanging fruit", ripe to be picked.

 

You liked that term? Nah, I see you all as precious but deceived by ol' Luci'.

[Thumbelina]

Michael Jackson, The Beatles and any group or artist that made it big or will make it big will have to follow Crowley's teachings

 

Absolute and complete bullshit.

 

Yeah, I know you can't see it:

 

 

 

DO NOT patronize me.

 

I wasn't, you believe differently to believers, that's what I'm saying; you can't see what we see.

[Thumbelina]

and I can't believe you'd actually quote such a braindead asshole as 'rayskidude' as your sig.

 

Ray is a brother in Christ, I am allowed to love him and quote him (hope he doesn't mind). He's also funny, he made me laugh when he called Aman Pollyanna-ish. Hmmm, I think he may have to revoke that title from Aman. Aman is mooning folk via emoticons

[Spectrox]

 

Maybe you'd like to look into this post?: http://www.ex-christ...is/#entry806900

It's about the prohecies in Daniel that points to the arrival of the Messiah.

 

 

Wow. From this inpenetrable passage you received clear information that "Messiah was supposed to show up in the first century"? And that the Messiah they were talking about was definitely the character of Jesus as portrayed in the gospels? Just amazing.

[Thumbelina]

The Jews have egg on their faces, they KNOW their prophecy said that Messiah was supposed to show up in the first century but because He did not show in the WAY they wanted Him to they rejected Him. They then had to revise the scripture to suit their private beliefs.

 

 

Please provide a reference for the prophecy you are talking about. Is it one from the Bible?

 

You were too fast for me I addressed it in this post http://www.ex-christ...is/#entry806900

and the post after yours. You need the HS to understand though.

[Thumbelina]

I can't believe how much effort you put into these posts.

 

 

It has to be love.

 

 

You must really care about validation from those who don't think like you. A little insecure perhaps?

 

 

 

Not at all, there are brands that need to be plucked from the burning.

 

 

Show of hands. Who here cares?

 

 

Whomever has an ear will hear who doesn't , won't. Free choice is there

[Thumbelina]

Maybe you'd like to look into this post?: http://www.ex-christ...is/#entry806900

It's about the prohecies in Daniel that points to the arrival of the Messiah.

 

 

Wow. From this inpenetrable passage you received clear information that "Messiah was supposed to show up in the first century"? And that the Messiah they were talking about was definitely the character of Jesus as portrayed in the gospels? Just amazing.

 

There are interlocking doctrines that believers can see and understand but the OT is not as explicit as the new. One needs the help of the HS to see.

 

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

"(1) that the plan of salvation may be learned from the Old Testament. It is not as clearly revealed there as it is in the New, but "it is there;" and if a man had only the Old Testament, he might find the way to be saved."

[hereticzero]

Don't quit now! Keep going!

[Antlerman]

Show of hands. Who here cares?

 

 

Whomever has an ear will hear who doesn't , won't. Free choice is there

In your case it's more a matter who has a distorted mind will hear you. Trust me Thumbs, you don't hear.

 

Why exactly are you here all these years? Do you honestly believe anyone ever gets anything at all from you? I have seen some Christians here who actually are, and they actually do make a difference. They're the one who say they're sorry. They're the ones who show love.

 

I never see that in you. Ever.

[Ouroboros]

I can't believe how much effort you put into these posts. You must really care about validation from those who don't think like you. A little insecure perhaps?

Agreed.

 

 

Proverbs 18:2 ESV

 

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his [or her] opinion.

 

Show of hands. Who here cares?

I stopped reading her posts months ago.