CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 It's really simple to explain Cliff: The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... It is the only explanation that makes any sense. All the world's religions can not be correct, Cliff. But it is entirely possible they are all wrong. Why do think you just happened to be born into the one correct religion out of all the possible times and places and religions you could have been born into? Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem.. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT MY FAITH IS THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!! I have indicated that my faith is the only faith for me. The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... OK Lets go with that .Let it be our consensus truth, meaning I fully concede that that is the origin of the bible. It changes nothing of what is written inside of it. Take any reference of God as Sam the Sham Call Jesus JR, and the holy Ghost love. You can call every word fiction. It doesn't matter. There is much to be gained from it, More,I suspect than you will ever know. or admit to. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 It's really simple to explain Cliff: The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... It is the only explanation that makes any sense. All the world's religions can not be correct, Cliff. But it is entirely possible they are all wrong. Why do think you just happened to be born into the one correct religion out of all the possible times and places and religions you could have been born into? Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem.. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT MY FAITH IS THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!! I have indicated that my faith is the only faith for me. The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... OK Lets go with that .Let it be our consensus truth, meaning I fully concede that that is the origin of the bible. It changes nothing of what is written inside of it. Take any reference of Got as Sam the Sham Call Jesus JR, and the holy Ghost love. You can call every word fiction. It doesn't matter. There is much to be gained from it, More,I suspect than you will ever know. or admit to. Cliff I'm told that there's much to be gained from the Koran too. Have you read it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquareOne Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 CHRISTIANS. ARE. LIARS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 BAA Not once has Mr. Stamper the troll mentioned, claimed, stated, asserted, alluded to, hinted at or referred to (no matter how obliquely) ...God being love. Real Christians believe that God is love. Perfect, infinite and eternal love. Isn't God's love the very heart and core and foundation of the Bible and Christianity? I believe that love is at the core and foundation of the bible. But since I cannot "prove" love any more than I can God I figured Ishouldn't waste time mentioning it. Troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 CHRISTIANS. ARE. LIARS. OK Whats your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 It's really simple to explain Cliff: The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... It is the only explanation that makes any sense. All the world's religions can not be correct, Cliff. But it is entirely possible they are all wrong. Why do think you just happened to be born into the one correct religion out of all the possible times and places and religions you could have been born into? Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem.. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT MY FAITH IS THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!! I have indicated that my faith is the only faith for me. The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... OK Lets go with that .Let it be our consensus truth, meaning I fully concede that that is the origin of the bible. It changes nothing of what is written inside of it. Take any reference of Got as Sam the Sham Call Jesus JR, and the holy Ghost love. You can call every word fiction. It doesn't matter. There is much to be gained from it, More,I suspect than you will ever know. or admit to. Cliff I'm told that there's much to be gained from the Koran too. Have you read it? No I have learned some about it. Not enough to make any decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm told that there's much to be gained from the Koran too. Have you read it? No I have learned some about it. Not enough to make any decisions. I figure that one book of bronze-age-goatherder myths is about as good as another. Judeo-christianity and islam have quite a bit in common you know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 It's really simple to explain Cliff: The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... It is the only explanation that makes any sense. All the world's religions can not be correct, Cliff. But it is entirely possible they are all wrong. Why do think you just happened to be born into the one correct religion out of all the possible times and places and religions you could have been born into? Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem.. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT MY FAITH IS THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!! I have indicated that my faith is the only faith for me. The bible is the product of a pre-scientific bronze age culture of goat herders that was simply trying to explain the world around them and how to live with each other. It does not have a divine origin any more than they mythology of the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, the Amalikites, the Jedi, or the Hobbits, do. It was inspired in the exact same way Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was inspired to write the Sherlock Holmes series and or how I am inspired to write a musical composition... OK Lets go with that .Let it be our consensus truth, meaning I fully concede that that is the origin of the bible. It changes nothing of what is written inside of it. Take any reference of God as Sam the Sham Call Jesus JR, and the holy Ghost love. You can call every word fiction. It doesn't matter. There is much to be gained from it, More,I suspect than you will ever know. or admit to. Cliff Any useful things in the bible are pretty much covered by the golden rule or a decent job of secular parenting. The rest is useless fear-based religious baloney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 "I believe that love is at the core and foundation of the bible. But since I cannot "prove" love any more than I can God I figured I shouldn't waste time mentioning it." Love doesn't condemn anyone to eternal hell; your bible god does. Therefore, to hell with him. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 "Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem" No, you don't. You have NO idea how the witches in Salem must have felt... for two reasons. There were no witches in Salem, the entire thing was mass hysteria and you are not being persecuted in any way shape or form, or tortured, water boarded, hung, thumb-screwed, branded, racked, burned at the stake, or any of the thousand other ways the christians committed atrocities towards the 10's and maybe even 100's of thousands they deemed 'witches' during the witch trials - you ignoramus. Even modern witches have it much, MUCH worse than you do.. I should know, I was a practicing witch for quite a few years. Want a taste of prejudice? Try that one on for a bit... and I didn't have it 1% as bad as other pagans do, say in the southern states. Christians enjoy the very best of entitlement and social ease here in North America, and probably Europe as well. There is NO persecution of christians in our culture, rather the opposite. The REASON why we aren't getting what you are saying is because you really aren't saying anything at all. You are vague, confused, self-contradictory, barely literate and sadly ignorant...you also come across as defensive and immodest, for very little reason. From your posts - these qualities are obvious Your biblical knowledge is pretty weak as well, and you have no idea how to engage in conversation, and less how to postulate a position and defend it. Haven't you ever written an essay? It comes across as you really don't have a clue why you believe and think as you do. I think your world has been fairly narrow... surrounded by those who are very similar to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 "Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem" No, you don't. You have NO idea how the witches in Salem must have felt... for two reasons. There were no witches in Salem, the entire thing was mass hysteria and you are not being persecuted in any way shape or form, or tortured, water boarded, hung, thumb-screwed, branded, racked, burned at the stake, or any of the thousand other ways the christians committed atrocities towards the 10's and maybe even 100's of thousands they deemed 'witches' during the witch trials - you ignoramus. Even modern witches have it much, MUCH worse than you do.. I should know, I was a practicing witch for quite a few years. Want a taste of prejudice? Try that one on for a bit... and I didn't have it 1% as bad as other pagans do, say in the southern states. Christians enjoy the very best of entitlement and social ease here in North America, and probably Europe as well. There is NO persecution of christians in our culture, rather the opposite. The REASON why we aren't getting what you are saying is because you really aren't saying anything at all. You are vague, confused, self-contradictory, barely literate and sadly ignorant...you also come across as defensive and immodest, for very little reason. From your posts - these qualities are obvious Your biblical knowledge is pretty weak as well, and you have no idea how to engage in conversation, and less how to postulate a position and defend it. Haven't you ever written an essay? It comes across as you really don't have a clue why you believe and think as you do. I think your world has been fairly narrow... surrounded by those who are very similar to yourself. I give up !!! done !!!!!finished !!!!!I I have not got the time or patience to put up with all this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm told that there's much to be gained from the Koran too. Have you read it? No I have learned some about it. Not enough to make any decisions. I figure that one book of bronze-age-goatherder myths is about as good as another. Judeo-christianity and islam have quite a bit in common you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm told that there's much to be gained from the Koran too. Have you read it? No I have learned some about it. Not enough to make any decisions. I figure that one book of bronze-age-goatherder myths is about as good as another. Judeo-christianity and islam have quite a bit in common you know. Yes I know. The first five books I believe. I believe a careful study of Genesis could probably explain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Actually, they consider Jesus a prophet of Allah, too. I'm not sure how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 "I believe that love is at the core and foundation of the bible. But since I cannot "prove" love any more than I can God I figured I shouldn't waste time mentioning it." Love doesn't condemn anyone to eternal hell; your bible god does. Therefore, to hell with him. bill How do you stand on capital punishment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm against it. One life doesn't make up for a lost one. Eye for an eye mentality is barbaric. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 "Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem" No, you don't. You have NO idea how the witches in Salem must have felt... for two reasons. There were no witches in Salem, the entire thing was mass hysteria and you are not being persecuted in any way shape or form, or tortured, water boarded, hung, thumb-screwed, branded, racked, burned at the stake, or any of the thousand other ways the christians committed atrocities towards the 10's and maybe even 100's of thousands they deemed 'witches' during the witch trials - you ignoramus. Even modern witches have it much, MUCH worse than you do.. I should know, I was a practicing witch for quite a few years. Want a taste of prejudice? Try that one on for a bit... and I didn't have it 1% as bad as other pagans do, say in the southern states. Christians enjoy the very best of entitlement and social ease here in North America, and probably Europe as well. There is NO persecution of christians in our culture, rather the opposite. The REASON why we aren't getting what you are saying is because you really aren't saying anything at all. You are vague, confused, self-contradictory, barely literate and sadly ignorant...you also come across as defensive and immodest, for very little reason. From your posts - these qualities are obvious Your biblical knowledge is pretty weak as well, and you have no idea how to engage in conversation, and less how to postulate a position and defend it. Haven't you ever written an essay? It comes across as you really don't have a clue why you believe and think as you do. I think your world has been fairly narrow... surrounded by those who are very similar to yourself. I give up !!! done !!!!!finished !!!!!I I have not got the time or patience to put up with all this shit. Since you are "done and finished" (your words), perhaps you could take a few months and research the issues, subjects and questions more. Also, you can rehearse and practice how to express your thoughts and emotions in writing, the goal being to communicate effectively and accurately. I suggest this because you appear quite confused and your writing is poor. Work on that stuff and come back in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 "How do you stand on capital punishment?" Itis barbaric, serving no good purpose whatsoever. But even so, it is nothing compared to hell. bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 "I believe that love is at the core and foundation of the bible. But since I cannot "prove" love any more than I can God I figured I shouldn't waste time mentioning it." Love doesn't condemn anyone to eternal hell; your bible god does. Therefore, to hell with him. bill How do you stand on capital punishment? If someone causes the ultimate harm to a person, homicide, then I'm all for capital punishment. If someone refuses to worship Jesus or God, no crime has been committed. Having a point of view other than your fellow Christards is not a crime. Why is human society as a whole much more rational and compassionate than the God of the bible? Eternal damnation for a wrong thought. Really? At least capital punishment ends at some point. Christianity and the bible are just fear-based shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffordStamper Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 "How do you stand on capital punishment?" Itis barbaric, serving no good purpose whatsoever. But even so, it is nothing compared to hell. bill You believe there is a hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 umm... no. 'EX christian' means we no longer hold to those beliefs. I have not seen any compelling evidence that any of it is true. Hell, heaven, god... any of it. I, personally, do not believe that even if there were a god that hell is possible, unless that god is one evil, sadistic motherfucker. But.. that's not the point. The point is that even the CONCEPT that a 'loving' creator would or could send it's creations to a place of torment, or even sentence them to death for 70 or so years of not living up to ridiculous and inhumane standards is repulsive. It's monstrous, illogical and less loving than us mere humans can be. What's even more repulsive is how many people believe this.... it opens the door to atrocities, and cruelty and not focusing on the here and now... where people should be focused. We need to help each other now, not wait for some fairytale afterlife. It negates reality... it makes people and life expendable and it devalues it. It makes a mockery of nature and life itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 BAA Not once has Mr. Stamper the troll mentioned, claimed, stated, asserted, alluded to, hinted at or referred to (no matter how obliquely) ...God being love. Real Christians believe that God is love. Perfect, infinite and eternal love. Isn't God's love the very heart and core and foundation of the Bible and Christianity? I believe that love is at the core and foundation of the bible. But since I cannot "prove" love any more than I can God I figured Ishouldn't waste time mentioning it. Troll Ancient Chinese Proverb. "It's no good clenching your buttocks after the fart has flown." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 "How do you stand on capital punishment?" Itis barbaric, serving no good purpose whatsoever. But even so, it is nothing compared to hell. bill You believe there is a hell? And you do too, unless you have been lying to us. You see, hell is a doctrine described by jesus in the bible, which is a book and person you said you believe in. If you come back telling us you do not believe in hell, then you are just another cherry picking christian (they all are cherry picking except Westboro Baptist) that ignores all the disgusting, inhumane, and obviously ridiculous parts of the bible like they don't exist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem.. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT MY FAITH IS THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!! I have indicated that my faith is the only faith for me. Then why are you here? So you can spread the one faith that is right for you to a group of people who have tried it and found it wanting? What did you hope to accomplish? We are not idiots, Cliff. Churches teach classes on how to evangelize and you seem to be trying to follow the rulebook here. You start off trying to connect with us on a very shallow and disingenuous level. Then when we start easily ripping your points apart you start to cry persecution and "what have I done to you" guilt tripping. I would understand completely if you claimed to be a christian, but you claim you are not, yet you do believe in the bible and the god that "wrote" it. Then you show us you dont really know what it says, and you re-define the words of scripture we have shown you. That is what a christian does Cliff. I understand what you are trying to say. You have been trying to beat around the bush since you got here, but there is one and only one message you have to give us: Yes, religion can be mean and people can be hurt, but we were just in the wrong church worshiping the wrong way. If we just take the time to listen to your version of christianity (lets call it Cliffanity) we will no longer be angry at god and realize the error of our ways. No, thank you. This is the 21st century Cliff. The time to believe in fairies and demons is over. To paraphrase your holy book, "When I was a child, I believed like a child. But when I became an adult, I put away childish things." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Marty I'm sorry I cannot get any of you to understand even the smallest detail of what I try to say. I know how the witches felt in Salem.. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT MY FAITH IS THE ONE TRUE FAITH!!! I have indicated that my faith is the only faith for me. Then why are you here? So you can spread the one faith that is right for you to a group of people who have tried it and found it wanting? What did you hope to accomplish? We are not idiots, Cliff. Churches teach classes on how to evangelize and you seem to be trying to follow the rulebook here. You start off trying to connect with us on a very shallow and disingenuous level. Then when we start easily ripping your points apart you start to cry persecution and "what have I done to you" guilt tripping. I would understand completely if you claimed to be a christian, but you claim you are not, yet you do believe in the bible and the god that "wrote" it. Then you show us you dont really know what it says, and you re-define the words of scripture we have shown you. That is what a christian does Cliff. I understand what you are trying to say. You have been trying to beat around the bush since you got here, but there is one and only one message you have to give us: Yes, religion can be mean and people can be hurt, but we were just in the wrong church worshiping the wrong way. If we just take the time to listen to your version of christianity (lets call it Cliffanity) we will no longer be angry at god and realize the error of our ways. No, thank you. This is the 21st century Cliff. The time to believe in fairies and demons is over. To paraphrase your holy book, "When I was a child, I believed like a child. But when I became an adult, I put away childish things." I highlighted all that cliff needs to see in your post. Nothing wrong with using the "word" for an honest reason for once... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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