Hello Their New Bee Hear!

[Ouroboros]

Why do you want me to answer a question when I made it clear I do not want to? It is not up to me to judge anyones soul.

And yet you do.

 

You claim to believe that the Bible is correct in its propaganda that we have to believe in Jesus to go to Heaven.

 

I hearby declare the truth for you: if, and only if, there is a God, then he will bring everyone to heaven, regardless of their actions or faith.

[SkepticOfBible]

Why do you want me to answer a question when I made it clear I do not want to? It is not up to me to judge anyones soul.

 

Well you are the ones with the answer, remember

 

It is not a difficult question. Doesn't the bible say that unbelievers will suffer eternal damnation. All the three examples I gave are unbelievers. So right now they are in hell

 

You know there was three options I gave. It couldn't be any easier. Should I take option no 3 as your answer?

[Fweethawt]

Should I take option no 3 as your answer?

I certainly hope so. If number three is his answer, then we can just tell him to shut the hell up and maybe he'll start acting like his user-name.

[TheListener]

Why do you want me to answer a question when I made it clear I do not want to? It is not up to me to judge anyones soul.

And yet you do.

 

You claim to believe that the Bible is correct in its propaganda that we have to believe in Jesus to go to Heaven.

 

I hearby declare the truth for you: if, and only if, there is a God, then he will bring everyone to heaven, regardless of their actions or faith.

 

 

If God were a God that condoned sin and let it go unpunished and let everyone into Heaven then I would NOT follow God.

[Fweethawt]

If God were a God that condoned sin and let it go unpunished and let everyone into Heaven then I would NOT follow God.

But yet you have no problem following a God that condones the killing of pregnant women and infants. And an NT God that says you can't get into Heaven without first knowing about Jesus.

 

Thousands of children and adults have died every single day since the beginning of history without ever hearing about Jesus.

 

And you don't have a problem with THAT God?

 

And you think everyone else is deceived and evil?

 

You haven't put much thought into the God that you worship, have you?

[TheListener]

I have put plenty of thought into God.

 

I look at things in context and I don't take on the role of God.

[thunderbolt]

I have put plenty of thought into God.

 

I look at things in context and I don't take on the role of God.

Context!?!?!?!

 

I didn’t realize condoning smashing babies against rocks, giving people a command not to kill and then helping them to kill woman, children, babies and animals required any type of context.

[Fweethawt]

I have put plenty of thought into theology.

 

I try to look at things in context and I don't take on the role of the skeptic.

There! I fixed that for you.

[TheListener]

I have put plenty of thought into God.

 

I look at things in context and I don't take on the role of God.

Context!?!?!?!

 

I didn’t realize condoning smashing babies against rocks, giving people a command not to kill and then helping them to kill woman, children, babies and animals required any type of context.

 

 

 

The mourning of an Israelite after the Babylonians have smashed their children on the rocks.?. Psalm 137 is a spine chilling psalm written just after the exile. It is not a direct command from God.

 

What about raping children? Western society rapes and murders their children by the hundreds and everyday people murder their babies by the thousands. How is it different? Do you think we live in a fairy tale?

[Fweethawt]

What about raping children? Western society rapes and murders their children by the hundreds and everyday people murder their babies by the thousands. How is it different? Do you think we live in a fairy tale?

There you go. This is gettin' even better. Once again, re-read what you wrote, then try to come to the realization that a religion that condones those behaviours, and even offers forgiveness for those actions, flourishes in "Western society".

 

Your God, your theology, is not a cure.

It's a cause.

 

Keep upholding it though, because after all, it is True™ and Righteous™!

 

 

I don't know how much of the news you listen to, but the ones doing those things are believers in the Christian religion. It's not the atheists that are doing it. That is truth!

[MQTA]

And the same God who condemns also freely forgives everyone for what Jesus did.

 

I am not accountible for what Adam did because of what Jesus did. Even though sin was a problem (disputably) introduced by man God took it on himself to resolve that problem.

 

So how does this work when you say that Adam and Eve were allegory? Does that mean Jesus and the entire NT is pure allegory too?

 

Jesus saved us from the sins of someone who's just an allegory?

 

What happens to Jesus' perfect beliefs in Noah and the flood when we find out the flood never happened, or was noticed by anyone else on the planet outside the story?

 

I guess when you buy the whole story, nothing anyone else says can penetrate the fantasy.

 

I see you typing and typing but I don't see any form of comprehension of what anyone else is trying to point out. Patient, they are.

 

 

 

 

You're right, I'm not getting much out of this site in terms of intelligent discussion. I am, however, getting a good roast which I sort of expected anyway.

 

Your name here should be TheSpeaker or TheTalkingHead

 

You don't seem to have Listened to anything anyone has said, you just kneejerk into your standard bumper sticker jargon responses. We call them PRATTs.

 

I see the Pascal was brought out too... how typical.

 

NNUTS

 

Nothing New Under The Sun

 

 

 

http://www.devilducky.com/media/40716

[thunderbolt]

The mourning of an Israelite after the Babylonians have smashed their children on the rocks.?. Psalm 137 is a spine chilling psalm written just after the exile. It is not a direct command from God.

 

It's not a command from God? Wanna rethink that? Let's see what the prophet Isaiah (possessed and under the influence of the Spirit) foretold what GOD WILL DO with BABYLON:

 

13: 15 Everyone who is caught will be stabbed ;

everyone who is seized will die by the sword .

13:16 Their children will be smashed to pieces before their very eyes;

their houses will be looted

and their wives raped .

13:17 Look, I am stirring up the Medes to attack them;

they are not concerned about silver,

nor are they interested in gold.

13:18 Their arrows will cut young men to ribbons ;

they have no compassion on a person’s offspring ,

they will not look with pity on children .

13:19 Babylon, the most admired of kingdoms,

the Chaldeans’ source of honor and pride,

will be destroyed by God

just as Sodom and Gomorrah were.

13:20 No one will live there again;

no one will ever reside there again.

No bedouin will camp there,

no shepherds will rest their flocks there.

13:21 Wild animals will rest there,

the ruined houses will be full of hyenas.

Ostriches will live there,

wild goats will skip among the ruins.

13:22 Wild dogs will yip in her ruined fortresses,

jackals will yelp in the once-splendid palaces.

Her time is almost up,

her days will not be prolonged.

 

There ya go - meet your loving god.

 

 

BTW - this is what Psalm 137 speaks about, this wonderful life giving prophecy of Isaiah.

[MQTA]

Why do you want me to answer a question when I made it clear I do not want to? It is not up to me to judge anyones soul.

And yet you do.

 

You claim to believe that the Bible is correct in its propaganda that we have to believe in Jesus to go to Heaven.

 

I hearby declare the truth for you: if, and only if, there is a God, then he will bring everyone to heaven, regardless of their actions or faith.

 

 

If God were a God that condoned sin and let it go unpunished and let everyone into Heaven then I would NOT follow God.

 

So you love and follow God BECAUSE he's eternally torturing and tormenting people who lived maybe 35-80 years in the last 195,000 years, since then, and eternally?

 

And the same one who said his laws are for all, FOREVER and unchanging? who changed his unchanging mind?

 

I see.

[Cat]

If God were a God that condoned sin and let it go unpunished and let everyone into Heaven then I would NOT follow God.

Your god apparantly let a thief into heaven who didn't even say sorry...

Apart from that, the problem with your view point is that you are saying you will only believe in a god who sends people to hell for all eternity for their temporal crimes, so firstly you obviously are putting limits on your god.

 

Secondly, when we send people to prison here for crimes committed, if we are living in a cultured society, attempts are made to understand and help those people, not torture them while they are there. Your god that you have created, being all powerful and all loving is clearly incapable of that and can only punish in a primitive and sadistic way. Nothing speaks more of how god is the invention of man than the concept of hell.

[All Gods Fail]

Dogpile on the new guy!

 

Let him catch his breath for round 2!

[SkepticOfBible]

Hi theListener,

 

You still haven't answered my question. And don't try to say that "it's not my place to judge". You already have told us your god's judge for us if we take the current status and therefore you already have judged us. I assume you must have got this information directly from God, since you have direct link with god via the holy spirit.

 

If you can tell us about our fate, surely you can tell us about the fate about the three groups that I proposed.

 

I can understand why you don't want to answer, because you know it in your heart that the doctrine of hell is stupid. Either way your god or your belief loses

 

Please correct me if I my analysis is wrong

 

1)If you say yes, then that shows your god has no compassion and you know it doesn't make sense to torture innocent babies.

 

It doesn't make sense to torture people who suffered unbearablaly during their lifetime. What's the difference with the Nazi hell and biblical hell? They both are torturing people just belong they in the wrong group, only difference is the Nazi only tortured them for a finite time.

 

It also doesn't make sense good people who we love are gonna suffer too. I don't know about you but I don't think I could be happy in heaven if my loved and dear ones are suffering in hell? Unless off course god strips me of my emotion in heaven

 

The sad thing is the bible is quite clear on this judgement. "Unbelievers will goto hell by default, because of original sin". You know the verses.

 

2)If you no, then that undermines the whole salvation concept and Jesus

 

3)If you say I don't know, then that means you can't be sure of your salvation.

 

Here are a few question for you

 

If Hell was such a important doctrine then why is it that there is not a single mention of it in OT? Did God purposely omit to tell Moses about it, or is it another one of NT invention?

 

And why is it that the devil(the ultimate evil, tempter and rebel) is not mentioned in the OT?

 

And you still haven't told us what is the status of the OT laws? Do we keep them or not?

 

And since you were a ex-Muslim, you could also tell me how is the judgement of Allah and the Judgement of Jesus for unbelievers different? at the end of the day both are eternally torturing people for the wrong belief?

 

If you think you do need time to think and research about it, then please do so? No christian till this date has challenged my assertion.

[SkepticOfBible]

I don't take on the role of God.

 

But never the less you take on the role of Allah to see whether the morality jives with you.

 

See there is your double standard.

 

You will no doubt pass judgement on the morality on Allah, and yet you condemn us when we do same for your god.

[SkepticOfBible]

 

The mourning of an Israelite after the Babylonians have smashed their children on the rocks.?. Psalm 137 is a spine chilling psalm written just after the exile. It is not a direct command from God.

 

 

 

So do think that the babies deserved to be smashed on the rock? Where is your jesus here? Why didn't he say the following to them.

 

"Don't kill these children, they are innocent"

 

There is even an verse in the NT which goes somewhere on the lines that "those who abuse children shall be drowned with rock tied to them"(can't remember the exact verse). Why doesn't Jesus the God says those verses to these hebrews or to the father part of the trinity?

 

Why is right for the hebrew to commit infanticide and at the same it is wrong for others?

 

 

What about raping children? Western society rapes and murders their children by the hundreds and everyday people murder their babies by the thousands. How is it different? Do you think we live in a fairy tale?

 

and we deplore such actions in any society in any time.

 

But the question is are you joining us to deplore these such commandents in the bible? Your God is allegedly telling his people to do the same? How is the morality of your god different than the morality of these babies killer?

 

If you read this sort of command/verse in the Quran, would you not have felt disgusted by it?

 

Would you have accepted the following answer from a muslim apologetist

 

"Well if you read the context of the verse, it will look ok. And remember Allah is the creator of the world, and also giver and taker of life. So he can do anything he likes and give whatever judgement he wants. You cannot question Allah. His ways are higher than ours".

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

And just to make a point clear, there is not one question above that myself or another Christian hasn't heard & answered before.

Of course there's not one question that Muslims/Mormons/Jews/Jehovah's Witnesses/Scientologists haven't heard and answered before either. All religions are very good at answering challenges to their foundational beliefs. However, that doesn't make them right.

 

Seeing that the usual atheist/agnostic tactic of overwhelming numbers of questions are being used...

Oh my god, he's discovered that we're using atheist tactic #4450 (asking an overwhelming number of questions.) You can't be serious. I know that christians are trained not to ask a lot of questions, but you don't have to accuse us of using some kind of tactic against you. You have joined a very busy ex-christian site and lots of people are curious why you believe what you say you believe. That's it - there are no tactics being used on you. If you can't handle the level of activity just politely ask us to slow down. There's no need to accuse us of using some kind of atheist tactic.

[Saviourmachine]

I can't comment on the historical details of Acts as I've not studied Roman history. Even if there were such a conflict of 20 or so years difference I would tend to take the Bible's Word rather than human findings.

 

...

 

Give or take 20 years in archeology is not that big a deal actually. It is hard (from what I know about archeology) to pinpoint exact dates. And history is always subjective.

It is not archeology. Josephus gives us an account of this procurator in that period. His 19th book. Josephus embeds the story with contempories, like Claudius Ceasar (41 - 54) and a lot of others. Don't you think that Josephus is able to tell the truth speaking about his own time? He tries to give a historical account. Luke's purpose is different.

 

Why do you think that the bible isn't human made? Because you investigate its truth compared to secular sources?

 

As for your other questions, keep things in context of creation/fall/redemption/new creation. You will see they are petty and earth-centered ideas. No offense.

What's the context for suffering animals? That the followers of one particular anthropocentric system/faith/person will be happy in the end? Earth-centered, yes. A man on earth knows how to treat his son. How far less god in heaven? Do you have a mind and are not allowed to ask and answer mundane questions?

[crazy-tiger]

I see he's avoiding the whole "free will" argument now... since it got demolished in front of his eyes.

 

 

 

I might have to consider changing my name to "Demolisher"

[Lycorth]

I see that the TheListener still is not listening. He cannot answer a question(s) so not only is he not answering but he has resorted to calling us evil and unintelligent, nice, how very loving. How typical that a Christian, much like God in Job, answers questions with a questions.

 

He just cannot deal with the fact his make-believe god does not exist and, despite his better judgement, he also cannot overcome his brainwashing which makes him promote his deathcult in the face of all odds. I know; I was there myself once upon a time. It's hard for Listener to accept the facts which are being presented to him, and many of them don't have easy answers which some Xian apologist has written down in a handy little book for him to reference at any time. His programming will say one thing, but somewhere, back in his brain, his mind is telling him that the folks on this board are right.

 

The tough questions about Xianity have no easy answers. The cruelty of Xianity's "god", the illogicality of the "plan of salvation", the contradictions with which the Holah Scripchahs are rife, the clear hampering of human progess in areas and times where Xianity is strong, and the sheer uselessness of an anti-life doomsday cult that is 2000 years past its expiration date.

 

That's a lot for a Xian to swallow, but all of us who are ex-Xians here know all about that. Listener will come around, if indeed he/she actually does listen to good sense and facts and has the guts to question the Boogeyman for just a moment.

[Saviourmachine]

Is Iraq now a place with no cities but Ostriches, Jackals and other wild animals running the town?

 

Save bet regarding the distribution of the Asiatic jackal (Canis aureus):

(see link for source)

 

Good prophecy. Wow.

[thunderbolt]

Good Thunderbolt, but may I add a little more to your already terrific rebuttal?

No sweat. I was trying to show him how his BibleGod instructed those things, and his ridiculous rationalization of that verse in the Psalms. But fundy is as fundy do ...

 

But thanks for raising the rest of the nonsense in that prophesy.

[Skankboy]

The Listener:

Even if there were such a conflict of 20 or so years difference I would tend to take the Bible's Word rather than human findings.

That about says it all. If this is truly the case TL, you might as well go home now...