Lets debate

[LogicalFallacy]

I understand your thinking BAA. 

 

Take his last post: "God is good" Bold assertion, no justification. So do you think it is worth the exercise to write out:

 

.....

 

17 hours ago, Jon said:

yes i'm here. With bad gramma and all.Loving jesus, God is good

 

@Jon

 

Please justify your claim God is good. First you'll need to define what you mean by "good".

 

Thanks

LF

 

....

 

As opposed to getting the point across by 'walking off the proverbial cliff'? 

 

And that was a rather rhetorical exercise because I probably already know your answer ... three letters not two...?  

 

[L.B.]

No. NO. Fuck this shit.

 

I wrote 1500 fucking words while I was sick with a fucking virus, and now this asshole comes posting in a thread where we're talking about the debate HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN??

 

Not another fucking word from me in that debate until this prick is made to either take over from @DarkBishop or banned.

 

@florduh or whoever - no fucking way. There are rules to this site. The motherfucker agreed to debate. Get his ass into the Arena or fucking shut him down.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

We still gotta finish our debate @L.B. I'm 2500 words deep now and am looking forward to finishing it. He won't be able to pick up on my train of thought anyway. Nor would he be able to hold his own in a debate for that matter.

        I've actually spent like $30 on books for this debate to study on my points, so I would be pissed off if John even offered to "take over". He had his chance. Now I am proving a point to him that we Ex-c's can put up a better arguement for their God than Christians can.

 

DB

[TABA]

@L.B. I understand your frustration with @Jon but I hope you will continue the debate, if for no other reason than out of respect for @DarkBishop.  Taking on the Christian side of this debate was a ballsy thing to do and I admire him for it. I couldn't  do it. 

 

As for Jon, he can go to Hell.  He believes it exists so he should be able to find his way there.  Any Christians are here as our guests, under certain conditions. @ironhorse and @end3 may not be contributing a lot but at least they're not assholes. 

 

(EDIT: I really don't wish Hell on anyone, Jon included. Although he is doing his best to piss us off, it's still a finite offense that does not deserve eternal punishment. But it was satisfying to say it.)

 

[florduh]

It is no longer Jon's debate. If he would like to watch and learn, so be it. Otherwise, he WILL stay out of it.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

@L.B.,

    (? I'm sorry I can't resist, this is just in the spirit of debate)

 

 If my arguement has somehow struck a cord with you and you feel the convicting power of God in your life. I want you to know that Jesus still loves you. We can go ahead and end this foolishness now. Our father is looking for you and will rejoice at your return to the fold. 

 

Or 

.

.

.

.

.

................ you can just continue with the debate, possibly prove me wrong, and in the event you are unable to effectively counter the arguement I have presented, there will be more. Rest assured (after the conclusion) I will stop this charade and destroy my own arguement in true Ex-c fashion. 

 

Best regards,

           Dark Bishop

 

     

[Travi]

3 hours ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

@L.B. I understand your frustration with @Jon but I hope you will continue the debate, if for no other reason than out of respect for @DarkBishop.  Taking on the Christian side of this debate was a ballsy thing to do and I admire him for it. I couldn't  do it. 

 

As for Jon, he can go to Hell.  He believes it exists so he should be able to find his way there.  Any Christians are here as our guests, under certain conditions. @ironhorse and @end3 may not be contributing a lot but at least they're not assholes. 

 

(EDIT: I really don't wish Hell on anyone, Jon included. Although he is doing his best to piss us off, it's still a finite offense that does not deserve eternal punishment. But it was satisfying to say it.)

 

I dunno. Anytime someone tells me to go to hell, especially if their an asshole - I always tell them to say hi to Lucifer for me if they make it before I do. They rarely have a comeback for that. Then you have a friend of mine, who has this accent about her that she can tell you to go to hell in such a way that you'll look forward to the trip.

In all fairness though, if such a place exists, I'm sure I'll meet many of my so-called Christian coworkers and associates there. They tend to have this about being "in name only" Christians, but indulge in sin DAILY.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

@L.B. I understand your frustration with @Jon but I hope you will continue the debate, if for no other reason than out of respect for @DarkBishop.  Taking on the Christian side of this debate was a ballsy thing to do and I admire him for it. I couldn't  do it. 

 

As for Jon, he can go to Hell.  He believes it exists so he should be able to find his way there.  Any Christians are here as our guests, under certain conditions. @ironhorse and @end3 may not be contributing a lot but at least they're not assholes. 

 

(EDIT: I really don't wish Hell on anyone, Jon included. Although he is doing his best to piss us off, it's still a finite offense that does not deserve eternal punishment. But it was satisfying to say it.)

 

@TheRedneckProfessor I just wanted you to feel like you belong, too, buddy.

[TABA]

15 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

@TheRedneckProfessor I just wanted you to feel like you belong, too, buddy.

 

Who? Me?

Belong where? In Hell?

 

 

[bornagainathiest]

6 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

I understand your thinking BAA. 

Take his last post: "God is good" Bold assertion, no justification. So do you think it is worth the exercise to write out:

.....

@Jon

 

Please justify your claim God is good. First you'll need to define what you mean by "good".

Thanks

LF

....

As opposed to getting the point across by 'walking off the proverbial cliff'? 

And that was a rather rhetorical exercise because I probably already know your answer ... three letters not two...?  

 

 

That's right, LF.  Three.

 

If Jon refuses to answer our questions, then he's looking back after putting his hand to the plow - making him unfit to serve in God's kingdom.

 

Luke 9 : 62

 

Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

.

.

.

If Jon refuses to answer our questions, perhaps he's ashamed of Jesus and Jesus' words?

 

Luke 9 : 26

 

Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

Who? Me?

Belong where? In Hell?

 

 

No.  That was just me poking fun at all of the tags in a single post.  Tagging myself so that I would feel like I belong.  Not all of my humor works out in the real world, sadly; so don't take it to heart if you didn't catch it.

[sdelsolray]

1 hour ago, bornagainathiest said:

...

If Jon refuses to answer our questions

...

 

 

 

It is quite possible, even likely, that Jon has not yet acquired the skills and not yet gained the information needed to answer such questions.

[LogicalFallacy]

18 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

It is quite possible, even likely, that Jon has not yet acquired the skills and not yet gained the information needed to answer such questions.

 

This ties into my argument that he is unfit to answer: Meaning he is either too young, or does not have the knowledge, or the necessary intellect to carry on a  simple discussion.

 

Which was why I was asking BAA about his position - if the audience sees someone like Jon, even a Christian might think that his (Jon's) posts and lack of responses are pitiful, without them being shaken in their faith in the slightest. If you see someone putting forward a weak argument for something you believe, and you think I can do way better than that, then your confidence in your belief is strengthened. The opposite can happen - when you see a strong argument refuted soundly this can weaken your belief. Part of the reason I lost my belief in God - the arguments just didn't stack up even when listening to some of the best apologists around.

 

So going by my reasoning, if I am Christian X reading the exchanges of Jon's and ours then...

2 hours ago, bornagainathiest said:

That's right, LF.  Three.

 

If Jon refuses to answer our questions, then he's looking back after putting his hand to the plow - making him unfit to serve in God's kingdom.

 

Luke 9 : 62

 

Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

.

In this case I would say that Jon obviously can't carry on a discussion, but this does not mean what he is saying is wrong.

.

.

If Jon refuses to answer our questions, perhaps he's ashamed of Jesus and Jesus' words?

 

Luke 9 : 26

 

Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

 

Here as a Christian I'd say you are conjecturing - Jon obviously doesn't have the discussion abilities as you do. You should try arguing with a 'smart' Christian.

 

So yeah, I get what BAA is saying, and normally I would agree whole heartedly. But in Jon's case I think he is either unfit (thus making debate with him pointless, and possibly even seeming unfair to others) or a troll. So I'm kind of between L.B's position of ban the troll, and BAA's bring to light the flaws in his posts.

 

Does that make me stuck between a rock and hard place?  

[sdelsolray]

I don't know, LF, I haven't thought about it very much.  Regardless of whether Jon is inexperienced, a troll or something else, I've concluded I can't have an adult discourse with him.  That could change.  We'll see.  In the meantime, I see no benefit in responding or reacting to his posts.

[★ Citsonga ★]

18 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

This ties into my argument that he is unfit to answer: Meaning he is either too young, or does not have the knowledge, or the necessary intellect to carry on a  simple discussion.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. He's definitely not prepared for any meaningful conversation, and he may very well be quite young.

 

20 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

I'm kind of between L.B's position of ban the troll, and BAA's bring to light the flaws in his posts.

 

I would side with BAA in this. As annoying as Jon's posts have been, and even moreso with the fact that he was a no-show for his own debate, I still don't think he's done anything to warrant being banned. Letting him continue here may actually help educate him some. Maybe not, of course, but it's possible that seeing logical arguments against the lousy one-liners he regurgitates here may have a positive effect on him in the long term.

 

 

[TABA]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

No.  That was just me poking fun at all of the tags in a single post.  Tagging myself so that I would feel like I belong.  Not all of my humor works out in the real world, sadly; so don't take it to heart if you didn't catch it.

 

Well yeah I did get a bit trigger-happy with the Taginator there!  It's Jon, he got me riled.  

 

 

[TABA]

4 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Rest assured (after the conclusion) I will stop this charade and destroy my own arguement in true Ex-c fashion. 

 

Best regards,

           Dark Bishop

 

     

 

Good.  We don't need you reconverting yourself, scoring an own-goal, so to speak. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

35 minutes ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

Good.  We don't need you reconverting yourself, scoring an own-goal, so to speak. 

Eh don't worry about that. I am pretty confident with my deconversion. I may not be as well studied as others are here due to me having just deconverted in February of this year. But I have taken that red pill and there is no going back. While I wrote my proposal and rebuttal I was thinking of counter arguments that LB might use, trying to form a possible defense. Once again I can't mention any of it because I'm a competitive person and actually do want to win. So I won't be giving LB any help. ?

 

DB

[florduh]

This is shaping up to be a good one. Thanks, guys!

[bornagainathiest]

19 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

This ties into my argument that he is unfit to answer: Meaning he is either too young, or does not have the knowledge, or the necessary intellect to carry on a  simple discussion.

 

Which was why I was asking BAA about his position - if the audience sees someone like Jon, even a Christian might think that his (Jon's) posts and lack of responses are pitiful, without them being shaken in their faith in the slightest. If you see someone putting forward a weak argument for something you believe, and you think I can do way better than that, then your confidence in your belief is strengthened. The opposite can happen - when you see a strong argument refuted soundly this can weaken your belief. Part of the reason I lost my belief in God - the arguments just didn't stack up even when listening to some of the best apologists around.

 

So going by my reasoning, if I am Christian X reading the exchanges of Jon's and ours then...

 

So yeah, I get what BAA is saying, and normally I would agree whole heartedly. But in Jon's case I think he is either unfit (thus making debate with him pointless, and possibly even seeming unfair to others) or a troll. So I'm kind of between L.B's position of ban the troll, and BAA's bring to light the flaws in his posts.

 

Does that make me stuck between a rock and hard place?  

 

Speaking as a Lion...

 

It doesn't matter to me if Jon is fit or unfit, it what happens is fair or unfair of if he's a troll or not.  

He's received (at least) two warnings about what he can expect in the Den.  The first is found in the Den rules.  The sentence in bold is particularly relevant, imho.  The onus is on the individual member to read and understand these rules before they enter, participate or start threads.

 

Lion's Den Rules

Attention "True Christians™" and former Christians. 

This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated. Aggressive evangelism is permitted in this section, but aggressive evangelists should be ready to be met by equally aggressive resistance. 

An occasionally heated response is allowed and sometimes even encouraged. However, all posters to the Lion's Den are still expected to adhere the general rules of decorum as delineated in the Forum Guidelines. In other words, conversations in the Lion's Den are intended to be permissively unrestrained without devolving into repetitious verbal abuse. Those who are identified as repeatedly abusive -- in this section or any section of this website -- may be suspended or banned from posting without notice. 

Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate. 

For more orderly and serious debate, go to the "Colosseum." 

For controlled formal debate, go to the "Arena."

.

.

.

The second warning appeared in page # 4 of this very thread.  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/76335-lets-debate/?page=4  

 

Posted April 16 · Report post

  On 4/14/2017 at 8:21 PM, bornagainathiest said:

Jon,

 

When you've finished debating L.B., perhaps you'd like to tell me why you think the Lion's Den is named so?

 

Hint:

It's got nothing to do with Daniel 6.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Ok Jon,

 

I'll give you the answer.

 

The Lion's Den is where we Lions (metaphorically) hunt down, kill and eat Christians like yourself.  

 

You have been warned!

 

 

 

[bornagainathiest]

And if my warnings to Jon aren't enough, perhaps scripture will suffice.

 

1 Peter 5 : 8

 

Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

 

 

[TABA]

On 5/8/2017 at 8:50 PM, DarkBishop said:

Eh don't worry about that. I am pretty confident with my deconversion. I may not be as well studied as others are here due to me having just deconverted in February of this year. But I have taken that red pill and there is no going back. While I wrote my proposal and rebuttal I was thinking of counter arguments that LB might use, trying to form a possible defense. Once again I can't mention any of it because I'm a competitive person and actually do want to win. So I won't be giving LB any help. ?

 

DB

 

Well I swallowed the pill myself with a big glass of water, so I know the feeling, my friend.

 

As for the debate so far (I guess this is as good a place as any to comment), I think DarkBishop did about as good a job as could be done in his opening presentation.  Wise to reject creationism (or at least Young Earth creationism.  Might have been smart to embrace Evolution though, in appealing to a 21st-century audience.  So far, though, I think it's pretty much a God-of-the-Gaps argument.  Also of course it doesn't get close to supporting the god of the Bible as the creator.  But I realize he's just getting started...

 

I was not expecting L.B. to take the approach he did in his first response, but given that the Lord had smitten him with a nasty virus, it might have been the best inspiration he could receive from Satan in between rounds of projectile-vomiting...  Seriously though, I hope you're feeling fine by now, @L.B.

 

So that's my take so far.  Too early to draw many conclusions.  Looking forward to the rest of the debate!

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

@L.B. 

     Hey man are you really gonna leave me hanging? If so I would like to skip to the membership question and answer phase so I can make my final arguement in the conclusion afterward and start work on a very lengthy reversal on my part of the debate. I don't want any questioning people trolling on the net to be convinced to stay in Christianity because of a debate I played Yahweh's advocate in and won.

 

DB

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

 I played Devils advocate 

 

You played Yahweh's advocate, which is far worse.  

 

I still haven't taken the time to read the debate, but I definitely plan to do so fairly soon.

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

That's true. I think I will change that. Lol Yahweh's advocate lmao that's funny 

 

DB