Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

[pittsburghjoe]

25 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If you wish to know my story, you can find it in the testimonials forum.

 

The Church let you down by showing how much they care about cash. The church is a kingdom in it's own right. It's been blown out of proportion and when there is a Satan that has authority of political power ..guess what happens? Men end up using the Bible for corrupt means. Using the Bible to play the public. Do you really think that is what Jesus intended?

[pittsburghjoe]

3 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Thank you for your projection, but I am not "worse". I note that you completely side stepped the question: What would convince you that God isn't real and your faith is meaningless? 

 

I don't want a justification of your current belief, I want to know what would convince you otherwise since you are insinuating that we here are set in our beliefs and nothing could change it.

 

My job is to flip whatever excuses you have on it's head. This isn't possible for me anymore. Aliens wouldn't even do it.

[florduh]

7 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Men end up using the Bible for corrupt means. Using the Bible to play the public. Do you really think that is what Jesus intended?

Is there some source other than the Bible that informs you about what Jesus intended?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

The Church let you down by showing how much they care about cash.

You could not be farther from the truth

[pittsburghjoe]

Oh, the poetry thing. You are claiming to see the light in that environment? I had a religious teacher tell me I was going to hell for picking a public high school to go to. There is going to be people that are religion doofuses ..they just uhhh, should know better. Schools like that are just begging to turn kids away.

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Some of us aspire to a peaceful eternity. What do you tell yourself when you hear about near-death experiences?

 

What do you tell yourself when you hear of someone using LSD, Salvia or some other hallucenogenic? 

[◊ Krowb ◊]

53 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If you wish to know my story, you can find it in the testimonials forum.

 

Found it, read it, and am better for it.  You are a good writer.

[pittsburghjoe]

  

4 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

What do you tell yourself when you hear of someone using LSD, Salvia or some other hallucenogenic? 

 

 

They are not that simple. I posted a video in another thread about a lady that was blind from birth that was able to see herself and Heaven ..from a car wreck.

You also find patients that know what happened in the operating rooms next to them.

You get ones that float around the room that spot things you couldn't see from the bed.

[midniterider]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

  

 

 

They are not that simple. I posted a video in another thread about a lady that was blind from birth that was able to see herself and Heaven ..from a car wreck.

You also find patients that know what happened in the operating rooms next to them.

You get ones the float around the room that spot things you couldn't see from the bed.

 

NDEs and OBEs are pretty cool experiences. Atheists tend to say they are just hallucinations. I think they may be some sort of actual experience outside of the body.

 

I dont think they prove existence of Jesus nor everlasting torture in Hell if I dont worship him.

 

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Well, that's a start to understanding.

[alreadyGone]

4 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

..If we don't have a physical body in Heaven, why would we have one before original sin?

 

If physicality is what allows sin to happen, why would it be possible in Heaven?

 

...

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but isn't the matter of whether in fact the denizens of heaven do have a physical body or do not hotly contested and debated among various Christian believers and sects?

 

And even if given we were not to have a physical body in heaven, whether that means anything about having a physical (temporal) presence before "original sin" is pure speculation on your part, is it not?

 

And are you saying that no sin is present outside the physical/temporal realm?

If so then how does that account for the fall of the angels?

 

I still suspect you may be a RC priest, but of one thing I'm certain... you are not an attorney. 

 

[pittsburghjoe]

2 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but isn't the matter of whether in fact the denizens of heaven do have a physical body or do not hotly contested and debated among various Christian believers and sects?

 

And even if given we were not to have a physical body in heaven, whether that means anything about having a physical (temporal) presence before "original sin" is pure speculation on your part, is it not?

 

And are you saying that no sin is present outside the physical/temporal realm?

If so then how does that account for the fall of the angels?

 

I still suspect you may be a RC priest, but of one thing I'm certain... you are not an attorney. 

 

 

Yeah, I'm in a fight right now on a Christian forum over it. They want to claim Flesh in the Bible has to mean physical when they can't comprehend that waves can be just as real ..if you are not in this physical reality. What they are suggesting without realizing it is that Jesus would be floating out in space right now if they were right. There is obviously a transition to God's Kingdom. The Light Waves for the Shroud of Turin happened somehow.

 

Right, humans need physicality to sin. Angels are different. They have a different set of rules.

[alreadyGone]

...trying to imagine Jesus floating out in space...

 

"open the Pod Bay door Hal !"

"I'm sorry Jesus.. I can't do that"

 

Sorry Joe..  No, really. It was just too juicy to resist.

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

  

 

You're not getting that you put yourself here. God is offering a way out.

 

We loved and worshiped Jesus but decided it was nonsense. I guess he didnt offer us a way 'out.' 

[pittsburghjoe]

What matters is your status at death.

[midniterider]

5 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

Yeah, I'm in a fight right now on a Christian forum over it. They want to claim Flesh in the Bible has to mean physical when they can't comprehend that waves can be just as real ..if you are not in this physical reality. What they are suggesting without realizing it is that Jesus would be floating out in space right now if they were right. There is obviously a transition to God's Kingdom. The Light Waves for the Shroud of Turin happened somehow.

 

Right, humans need physicality to sin. Angels are different. They have a different set of rules.

 

Flesh in the bible is non-physical flesh? Is that like Jumbo Shrimp?

 

 

[midniterider]

3 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

What matters is your status at death.

 

Perfect. I can keep living like I am up until I die. Thanks, buddy.

[pittsburghjoe]

You want to chance going to hell by not getting in with the Big Man soon enough? Not a good idea.

[alreadyGone]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

What matters is your status at death.

 

And there you see my own dellima.

The standard (Protestant anyway) Christian belief is, you are placed into this temporal life with what you have... a genetic lottery of sorts. Some are strong, some are weak. Things happen to you in this world. Random things, if you believe that all humans have "free will".  And for that reason, your life could end at any time.

You may step out on the street and a crack-head may cut your throat to take your wallet.

 

Your premise then is that through all that, it is my responsibility to maintain my faith intact until the unknowable indeterminate day of my demise.

My final score, my final grade on my permanent record then is based on my success in keeping that faith within me. And Jeusus warns in various ways that my faith must be unshakeable, inviolate, and that he will be checking it, carding me at the door of heaven.

 

Imagine..

'cause I can't.

 

 

 

[alreadyGone]

Just now, pittsburghjoe said:

You want to chance going to hell by not getting in with the Big Man soon enough? Not a good idea.

 

Pascal's Wager...

Silly then, silly now.

 

[midniterider]

So what is the minimum amount of time I should devote to Jesus to qualify for heaven? Is Christmas and Easter services good enough? 

 

Can I say I love Jesus like once a year to qualify? 

 

Once every 10 years? 

 

I was already baptized in the 90s. Maybe that's good enough to get into heaven. The bible is really vague. John 3:16 just says "Whoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life." I could say, "Ok, I believe in you." And that would be my ticket to heaven. 

 

I guess everlasting life means heaven....it actually doesnt specify a location.

[pittsburghjoe]

Do you think an all knowing God is a fool?

[alreadyGone]

2 minutes ago, midniterider said:

..I was already baptized in the 90s. Maybe that's good enough to get into heaven. ...

 

Nah, I think there's an expiration date somewhere. You gotta re-up once in a while.

Just so we all know that you continue to be interested and an active participant.

 

[midniterider]

3 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

 

And there you see my own dellima.

The standard (Protestant anyway) Christian belief is, you are placed into this temporal life with what you have... a genetic lottery of sorts. Some are strong, some are weak. Things happen to you in this world. Random things, if you believe that all humans have "free will".  And for that reason, your life could end at any time.

You may step out on the street and a crack-head may cut your throat to take your wallet.

 

Your premise then is that through all that, it is my responsibility to maintain my faith intact until the unknowable indeterminate day of my demise.

My final score, my final grade on my permanent record then is based on my success in keeping that faith within me. And Jeusus warns in various ways that my faith must be unshakeable, inviolate, and that he will be checking it, carding me at the door of heaven.

 

Imagine..

'cause I can't.

 

 

 

 

You could wear a Jesus belt buckle to minimize being a dork (better than a t shirt), or maybe play a recording all day long at low volume that says, "Love you , Jesus, Love you Jesus." Then you're covered. 

[midniterider]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

Do you think an all knowing God is a fool?

 

Well, he did come up with Inherited Guilt and Substitutional Atonement. Pretty stupid concepts if you ask me.