Prayer Helps No One

[nick5]

By "study", we all know he means take 1 minute to read them and then forget them as quickly as possible. There isn't anything to "study", any sane person who reads the bible will realize it doesn't make any sense.

You have already been proven wrong. Faith isn't a virtue, it's a defect in sanity.

 

It seems Scott is ignoreing my list of evils God did.

Maybe it's better that way though. He'd probably say something retarded like "those actions are not unjust because they were commited by god, not man"

 

Hey scott.

You're a dick.

[Scott]

Ramen, I don't answer contradictions or things trying to prove God is evil because I really don't know how to respond. It doesn't make me question my beliefs, but I do need some time to study.

 

No, Nick, by study, I mean actually study and give you some answers.

 

Hey scott.

You're a dick.

 

I really don't give a crap what you think of me. Why should I?

[nick5]

It doesn't make me question my beliefs

 

Because you don't wanna.

Why would you say something like that right now even though you admit you "still need time to study"? Because you don't care about the truth. You just start with your conclusion at the beginning and work from there.

The message this gives us is, "yo guys, it doesn't matter how logical and sane your reasoning is, it doesn't even matter if it's true, I won't change my mind because I just don't wanna. I believe the bible because I want it to be real, not because it actually is".

 

No, Nick, by study, I mean actually study and give you some answers.

But we already know the type of answer you're gonna come up with, and we know it's gonna be dumb as fuck because we've heard it a good 1000 times before.

 

I really don't give a crap what you think of me. Why should I?

No, YOU're a dick.

[Scott]

It doesn't make me question my beliefs

 

Because you don't wanna.

Why would you say something like that right now even though you admit you "still need time to study"? Because you don't care about the truth. You just start with your conclusion at the beginning and work from there.

The message this gives us is, "yo guys, it doesn't matter how logical and sane your reasoning is, it doesn't even matter if it's true, I won't change my mind because I just don't wanna. I believe the bible because I want it to be real, not because it actually is".

 

No, Nick, by study, I mean actually study and give you some answers.

But we already know the type of answer you're gonna come up with, and we know it's gonna be dumb as fuck because we've heard it a good 1000 times before.

 

I really don't give a crap what you think of me. Why should I?

No, YOU're a dick.

 

That is the same "crap logic" you accuse me of using.

Now, by questioning my beliefs, I mean question the Christian Faith. There are somethings in the Bible that I don't understand, so I question it and study it.

Because I couldn't care less what you think of me, that makes me a d*ck? You seem to have some issues.

[nick5]

That is the same "crap logic" you accuse me of using.

That's exactly it... because I was describing what you were doing. Idiot.

If you're accusing ME of being guilty of the same illogical reasoning as you, then clearly you lack the ability to understand even the simplest level of english; it's not my native tongue, so it should be easy to understand, even for you.

 

Now, by questioning my beliefs, I mean question the Christian Faith.

But you don't question your belief because you're afraid to find out the stuff you believe in isn't real.

 

Because I couldn't care less what you think of me, that makes me a d*ck? You seem to have some issues.

No, YOU'RE a dick.

[Antlerman]

Antlerman, I believe in that verse he's talking about spiritual brothers; Christians. Although, if I came across as arrogant and/or condescending, I truly do apologize. That was not my intention.

What exactly was your intention in bringing up that whole thing about how none of us who are ExChristians were really ever true Christians to begin with? What was the purpose?

 

BTW, who is your brother but "whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is My brother, and My sister, and mother". I've said many times in the past that I find I fulfill much more of what God represents now that I am not religious, than when I was, more specifically, because I'm not anymore. So beware to act disrespectfully to someone who doesn't meet your expectations of what constitutes a "True Christian" because you may well in fact be in violation of the spirit of what Jesus was saying.

 

Doing the "will of God" does not mean obeying the letter of the law, but the spirit of it. When you understand that, then you will no longer find any need for the towering doctrines of the fundamentalist religious institution, a.k.a. the 21st century Pharisees, and find the power and beauty of humanity everywhere you had previous excluded because of judgmental theologies.

[Scott]

You are a first class imbecile. #1. I wasn't using the reasoning, I was saying that other non-christians have. #2. My belief is actually quite real. I know this through His word and, as I've said 1,000,000 times, through my experiences. Why don't you grow up and post some messages without the prophanity? Either that or expand your vocabulary

[Dhampir]

Know what I like? When people talk about vocabulary while spelling words wrong.

[Scott]

Antlerman, I believe in that verse he's talking about spiritual brothers; Christians. Although, if I came across as arrogant and/or condescending, I truly do apologize. That was not my intention.

What exactly was your intention in bringing up that whole thing about how none of us who are ExChristians were really ever true Christians to begin with? What was the purpose?

 

BTW, who is your brother but "whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is My brother, and My sister, and mother". I've said many times in the past that I find I fulfill much more of what God represents now that I am not religious, than when I was, more specifically, because I'm not anymore. So beware to act disrespectfully to someone who doesn't meet your expectations of what constitutes a "True Christian" because you may well in fact be in violation of the spirit of what Jesus was saying.

 

Doing the "will of God" does not mean obeying the letter of the law, but the spirit of it. When you understand that, then you will no longer find any need for the towering doctrines of the fundamentalist religious institution, a.k.a. the 21st century Pharisees, and find the power and beauty of humanity everywhere you had previous excluded because of judgmental theologies.

 

My point was using the Bible and How it says "No once can be snatched out of the Father's hand" and John said many antichrists went out into the world who were with them, but left, because they were never truly with them. Isaiah said our works are like filthy rags to God. So, by doing the will of God we must be cleansed of our filthiness.

[Antlerman]

Ladyfractal, Christianity gives life a purpose for Christians too, even though we believe there is life after death. We believe that we will be judged after death by Christ Jesus {God} Himself, and that, while it's not the only motivation, is a good one.

I believe we will be judged in this life, which is why it's important to live life sincerely, to ourselves and others. Focusing on tommorow is not living today. You then never lived.

[Scott]

Ladyfractal, Christianity gives life a purpose for Christians too, even though we believe there is life after death. We believe that we will be judged after death by Christ Jesus {God} Himself, and that, while it's not the only motivation, is a good one.

I believe we will be judged in this life, which is why it's important to live life sincerely, to ourselves and others. Focusing on tommorow is not living today. You then never lived.

 

Judged by who? Do you believe in God or are you referring to something else?

[Antlerman]

My point was using the Bible and How it says "No once can be snatched out of the Father's hand" and John said many antichrists went out into the world who were with them, but left, because they were never truly with them. Isaiah said our works are like filthy rags to God. So, by doing the will of God we must be cleansed of our filthiness.

I'm still not clear what the point was in bring up Calvinism? What point were you trying to make to us? That we were never real Christians because of what the theology of John Calvin says? Why would you try to tell us that? The other question is even more than that, how do you reconcile Calvin's theology with the reality of people you can't deny to youself if you're really listening to us, were in fact quite sincere in their beliefs, so much so that we experience the pain of loss over it? How do you reconcile that?

 

As far as the filthy rags theology thing: come on... two points, do you really feel in you heart (not your theological reasoning mind) that the beauty of the human spirit manifesting itself in graceful acts of love the world over, is somehow seen as worthly menstrual clothes in the eyes of the God you admire?? Secondly, do you really in you heart fathom as being possibly real, that if this loving God really, truely exists that somehow the key to accessing him is through BLOOD? Come on... BLOOD? Why not severed feet? What about ears? How about fingers? Maybe God requires human kidneys to satisfy his righteous nature? Seriously Scott... does this make sense to your heart, or even your mind?

 

It is so simple to understand the ancient origins of ideas about the gods to explain that view.

 

Ladyfractal, Christianity gives life a purpose for Christians too, even though we believe there is life after death. We believe that we will be judged after death by Christ Jesus {God} Himself, and that, while it's not the only motivation, is a good one.

I believe we will be judged in this life, which is why it's important to live life sincerely, to ourselves and others. Focusing on tommorow is not living today. You then never lived.

 

Judged by who? Do you believe in God or are you referring to something else?

Judged by our own concience and the world we live in. My father wisely said to me, "we create our own environments". People's faces show the twisteness of their own hearts, so who we are is manifest in who we become. Our judgement is in finding meaning, or loosing our own souls in this world. Again, live for tommorow and never live today. When you die hoping for hevean, you lost it where it existed - here.

[Scott]

My point was using the Bible and How it says "No once can be snatched out of the Father's hand" and John said many antichrists went out into the world who were with them, but left, because they were never truly with them. Isaiah said our works are like filthy rags to God. So, by doing the will of God we must be cleansed of our filthiness.

I'm still not clear what the point was in bring up Calvinism? What point were you trying to make to us? That we were never real Christians because of what the theology of John Calvin says? Why would you try to tell us that? The other question is even more than that, how do you reconcile Calvin's theology with the reality of people you can't deny to youself if you're really listening to us, were in fact quite sincere in their beliefs, so much so that we experience the pain of loss over it? How do you reconcile that?

 

As far as the filthy rags theology thing: come on... two points, do you really feel in you heart (not your theological reasoning mind) that the beauty of the human spirit manifesting itself in graceful acts of love the world over, is somehow seen as worthly menstrual clothes in the eyes of the God you admire?? Secondly, do you really in you heart fathom as being possibly real, that if this loving God really, truely exists that somehow the key to accessing him is through BLOOD? Come on... BLOOD? Why not severed feet? What about ears? How about fingers? Maybe God requires human kidneys to satisfy his righteous nature? Seriously Scott... does this make sense to your heart, or even your mind?

 

It is so simple to understand the ancient origins of ideas about the gods to explain that view.

 

I do believe in God and I believe His Word. Why would my mind or heart say otherwise? Sometimes I do have doubts. Alot less that I used to, but they still come. I just have faith the Lord will deliver me from those doubts. The reason our righteousness is like filthy rag is because of sin. It's power is so strong over our good works that it amounts to nothing. Only through the shed blood of Jesus can we be made righteous in God's eyes, so our works will matter too. Which brings us to the third question of blood. Someone needs to die for the sins of the world because the wages of sin are death. Jesus chose to do that for us. Now, I know you don't need me to tell me that. You were once a Christian so I assume you've heard it before. So as I am assmuming that you've heard that before {though not certain} why do you ask me?

[Ramen666]

Scott....listen carefully

 

Sin needs to exsist for the world to work. If and Adam and Eve didn't disovey God we would be like robots.( You can disagree I know you will) However the tree was for "knowlege" of good and evil. Not the Tree of Evil. It was the knowlege that seperates good and evil.

 

Let's play around with this: This is original sin. ( I don't believe in it)

 

God created man he said you will die if you eat the fruit. The snake came you know the story....

 

If God was indeed perfect we should be mindless robots worshiping him and we should not have any free will. If God didn't give us free will we would not have sinned and all of humanity wouldn't be doomed from one person.

 

Answer these questions " why you study my other posts"

 

1. Is it fair to be blamed from something 2000 years old.

 

2. God created man to worship him. some do some don't. We should not have had freewill for it to work.

 

3. God knows everything , humanity must have been set up to fail. (disagree, why was the snake there in the first place. God created everything and that garden with everything in it)

[Vixentrox]

I prayed desperatly to keep my faith and for god to show me the way. Look where I am today...an unbeliver. Hey, maybe god answered my prayer after all........

[Scott]

Scott....listen carefully

 

Sin needs to exsist for the world to work. If and Adam and Eve didn't disovey God we would be like robots.( You can disagree I know you will) However the tree was for "knowlege" of good and evil. Not the Tree of Evil. It was the knowlege that seperates good and evil.

 

Let's play around with this: This is original sin. ( I don't believe in it)

 

God created man he said you will die if you eat the fruit. The snake came you know the story....

 

If God was indeed perfect we should be mindless robots worshiping him and we should not have any free will. If God didn't give us free will we would not have sinned and all of humanity wouldn't be doomed from one person.

 

Answer these questions " why you study my other posts"

 

1. Is it fair to be blamed from something 2000 years old.

 

2. God created man to worship him. some do some don't. We should not have had freewill for it to work.

 

3. God knows everything , humanity must have been set up to fail. (disagree, why was the snake there in the first place. God created everything and that garden with everything in it)

 

God is perfect, yet He gave us free will. He didn't want us to be "mindless robots" worshipping Him. He gives us a choice.

 

#1. I'm not sure if you can answer that with a yes or no answer. Sin is a curse. Adam and Eve were created before all of us, and through their disobedience, all of mankind has been cursed.

 

#2. God didn't only create us to worship Him, but to have fellowship with Him. Sorta like now. The Bible says that Christians are not only worshippers of God, but friends of God. So yes, we were created to worship Him, but also to be His friends.

 

#3. God does know everything. But this doesn't mean we were set up to fail. He gives everyone choices. Even though we did disobey God, we can be freed from the curse of sin. The snake was Satan. He, an angel, also disobeyed God and deceived about 1/3 of the angels to go with him.

 

I prayed desperatly to keep my faith and for god to show me the way. Look where I am today...an unbeliver. Hey, maybe god answered my prayer after all........

 

So, why are you an unbeliever? Do you think God just didn't answer your prayers, do you just no longer believe in God at all, or what?...just curious

[Ramen666]

God is perfect, yet He gave us free will. He didn't want us to be "mindless robots" worshipping Him. He gives us a choice.

 

#1. I'm not sure if you can answer that with a yes or no answer. Sin is a curse. Adam and Eve were created before all of us, and through their disobedience, all of mankind has been cursed.

 

#2. God didn't only create us to worship Him, but to have fellowship with Him. Sorta like now. The Bible says that Christians are not only worshippers of God, but friends of God. So yes, we were created to worship Him, but also to be His friends.

 

#3. God does know everything. But this doesn't mean we were set up to fail. He gives everyone choices. Even though we did disobey God, we can be freed from the curse of sin. The snake was Satan. He, an angel, also disobeyed God and deceived about 1/3 of the angels to go with him.

 

1. God cursed us now for being born. Right off I am born in the world in the lawd cursed me for exsisting. Man God is the man look for being human I am cursed.

 

2. Friends? You gotta be joking. I had an imaganry friend when I was 3 his name was Saso. ( Good guy by the way.) How can you be his friend when he is basically pointing a gun to my head. " Worship and believe in me or go burn in hell) Hmmmm the choices God or Hell lets see what too chose from.

 

3. Technically the snake may not have been Satan ( Now that's a man I respect) It never said it was just a serpant. Do you know Adam and Eve can speak parseltounge. ( They can talk to snakes you dumbass)

 

 

God IS NOT PERFECT he made a mistake why can't you get that clear. If we were mindless robots humanity according to you would not be fucked over by God.

[Vixentrox]

Adam and Eve's disobiedance...how could they fail to disobey? They hadn't any knowledge of good or evil yet? It's like speaking quantum mechanics to a 2 year old. They havent a clue and niether did Adam and Eve.

[Scott]

#1. Yes, we are cursed, but with a way out.

 

#2. God doesn't want us to go to Hell. He wants to rescue us from it. Yes, that's a pretty good Friend.

 

#3. The snake was Satan. It makes that clear in the book of Revelation.

 

Adam and Eve's disobiedance...how could they fail to disobey? They hadn't any knowledge of good or evil yet? It's like speaking quantum mechanics to a 2 year old. They havent a clue and niether did Adam and Eve.

 

They wanted to be like God. That is actually the same thing Satan wanted to be. They could have resisted the serpant out of their love for God.

[Ramen666]

#1. Yes, we are cursed, but with a way out.

 

#2. God doesn't want us to go to Hell. He wants to rescue us from it. Yes, that's a pretty good Friend.

 

#3. The snake was Satan. It makes that clear in the book of Revelation.

 

 

 

1. I am not cursed by God and sin is not curse. Sin is a gift. I am proud Eve ate that fruit I would do it myself. Eating that fruit is what helped humanity. Religon is more of a curse then sin.

 

2. God created Hell...He foresaw what Eve would do...humans go to hell. He created the condtions for hell and knew humanity would fail.

 

3. Ok....I still disagree it never mentioned it in Genesis. How can snakes talk anyway? Pretty good fantasy story from blood and gore than Saw II. But the Bible needs more plot twists.

[roman]

I came right to the end, to see if you were still talking about prayer, and I see that you are not.

 

#1. Yes, we are cursed, but with a way out.

 

#2. God doesn't want us to go to Hell. He wants to rescue us from it. Yes, that's a pretty good Friend.

 

#3. The snake was Satan. It makes that clear in the book of Revelation.

 

 

 

1. I am not cursed by God and sin is not curse. Sin is a gift. I am proud Eve ate that fruit I would do it myself. Eating that fruit is what helped humanity. Religon is more of a curse then sin.

 

2. God created Hell...He foresaw what Eve would do...humans go to hell. He created the condtions for hell and knew humanity would fail.

 

3. Ok....I still disagree it never mentioned it in Genesis. How can snakes talk anyway? Pretty good fantasy story from blood and gore than Saw II. But the Bible needs more plot twists.

 

That's right. And too many authors just makes the whole thing twisted. I am continually, and I mean that, like EVERY DAY, amazed that people still give credence to this ridiculous collection of kakadoody.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Now Scott answer this what about the destroyed town, who's familys are destroyed and everything lost? See what I am saying it's just dumb luck.

 

Question? You were extermely close to a Grandparent. As they were passing away; and you began to beg God to let them live. they didnt live, they passed away.

 

How would you consider this prayer? Would you consider this into the catagory of "parayers that didnt work"?

[Kuroikaze]

 

I do believe in God and I believe His Word. Why would my mind or heart say otherwise? Sometimes I do have doubts. Alot less that I used to, but they still come. I just have faith the Lord will deliver me from those doubts

 

I used to have those doubts all the time, I prayed but god never answered them....guess I just wasn't among the "elect"

 

The reason our righteousness is like filthy rag is because of sin. It's power is so strong over our good works that it amounts to nothing. Only through the shed blood of Jesus can we be made righteous in God's eyes, so our works will matter too. Which brings us to the third question of blood. Someone needs to die for the sins of the world because the wages of sin are death. Jesus chose to do that for us. Now, I know you don't need me to tell me that. You were once a Christian so I assume you've heard it before. So as I am assuming that you've heard that before {though not certain} why do you ask me?

 

this right here is why christianity seems like some kind of twisted con game. It creates a disease then provides a cure.

 

And to my mind blood sacrifices are the sickest and most cruel, unjust thing imaginable. To say that god is somehow pleased by burnt animal entrails spread on an altar is both horrifying and silly to me at the same time. Blood sacrifices were born into cultures that believed that the soul or life force was contained in the blood and by killing something else you could appease god....Ancient Judaism was no better than any other religion and so I reject the concept of substitutionary grace to the very root.

 

You can repeat this till your blue in the face, but I will no longer accept the idea that god somehow, needs/requires a blood sacrifice to forgive sin. It just simply doesn't make sense to tie the hands of the suposed all powerful creator of the universe with some boneheaded bronze age blood letting ritural.

 

Now I don't have anything against God...I just can't believe that Yahweh is THE god, if you get my drift. If there is a god I very much doubt the bible has the correct view of him...to me its just another pagan book full of superstitions and non-sense.

 

I don't take the existence of any of the OTHER gods from bronze age Mesopotamia, and I very much doubt you take them seriously either...the only difference between me and you is that I believe in one less god than you do, as I very much doubt you belief the Roman, persian, Babylonain, shinto gods are real either.

[roman]

 

 

Now Scott answer this what about the destroyed town, who's familys are destroyed and everything lost? See what I am saying it's just dumb luck.

 

Question? You were extermely close to a Grandparent. As they were passing away; and you began to beg God to let them live. they didnt live, they passed away.

 

How would you consider this prayer? Would you consider this into the catagory of "parayers that didnt work"?

Your hypothetical case will not apply to very many here, I think. In my own case, when my grandmother was dying, I read to her from The Tibetan Book Of The Dead. We both knew that she was dying, which is part of Life. We would not ever have considered praying to your god for her to remain living, as we gave no credence to that god and we knew it was time for her to die.

[white_raven23]

#3. The snake was Satan. It makes that clear in the book of Revelation.

 

 

No it doesn't. If you read that verse in context of that whole chapter it is quite clearly talking about a future event. After all if it was talking about the serpent from the garden, Eve's flight to the desert on gifted wings to flee the dragon serpent intent on killing her child in NO way appears in Genesis at all. That's an interesting chunk of story missing from Genesis if that chapter were referring to the serpent in the garden. And last I checked the words ancient serpent, or serpent of old (depending which version of the Bible you have) have traditionally been used to describe the mythological dragon. A dragon is chasing the woman with child in that chapter. It can't be the serpent in the garden. Biblegod cursed that being to slither on the ground forever.....so why would the woman with child even need wings to escape to the desert if all she's trying to evade is a slithering snake? Because it's NOT a snake, its a dragon. A dragon would require special means to evade.

 

There are 31,174 verses in the bible. And only ONE verse out of the whole book that even refers to an old serpent.

 

The serpent from the garden doesn't make a single appearance outside Genesis. Heck, even in other mythologies, the Trickster (raven, fox, Loki, whatever) makes multiple appearances. The Eden garden snake doesn't.