I'm Completely Lost...

[Guest confused idiot]

Is it just brainwashing that keeps yeah bugged up, or is it other things.

 

Both.

[Guest Valk0010]

Is it just brainwashing that keeps yeah bugged up, or is it other things.

 

Both.

Outside of the beginnings of life, which could be fixed by choosing a different idea of God.

 

What else?

 

I can't really help with the brainwashing really.

[Guest confused idiot]

Is it just brainwashing that keeps yeah bugged up, or is it other things.

 

Both.

Outside of the beginnings of life, which could be fixed by choosing a different idea of God.

 

What else?

 

Specific prophecies that have come to pass.

 

Stories I've heard about demons, and similarities I have in my life.

 

Israel itself.

 

That the mindfuckingest versions of this religion seem to be the most plausible ones.

 

That everything I like is probably sinful, and everything I hate is probably holy.

 

Other stories..

 

That's all I can think of for now. Unless you were talking about things outside of religion, I could keep going....

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Specific prophecies that have come to pass.

 

 

Okay do me and everyone else a favor, name the scriptures of every single one. EVERY SINGLE ONE

 

 

Stories I've heard about demons, and similarities I have in my life.

 

 

Google naturalism or methodological naturalism etc.

 

 

Israel itself.

 

 

Look in the thread in the lions den called There is a God

 

That the mindfuckingest versions of this religion seem to be the most plausible ones.

 

I would say that falls under indoctrination.

 

That everything I like is probably sinful, and everything I hate is probably holy.

 

That is trouble because its christian dogma. But that isn't really much not under anything other then indoctrination.

 

Other stories..

 

That's all I can think of for now. Unless you were talking about things outside of religion, I could keep going....

 

Well think up a list of about the same amount for next week.

[Guest confused idiot]

Here's the main prophecy I had in mind. I'll come back with more when my goddamn internet decides to let me post.

 

Babylon's gates would open for Cyrus

Bible prophecy: Isaiah 45:1

Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC

Prophecy fulfilled: 539 BC

 

In Isaiah 45:1, the prophet said God would open the gates of Babylon for Cyrus and his attacking army. Despite Babylon's remarkable defenses, which included moats, and walls that were more than 70-feet thick and 300-feet high, and 250 watchtowers, Cyrus was able to enter the city and conquer it. Cyrus and his troops diverted the flow of the Euphrates River into a large lake basin. Cyrus then was able to march his army across the riverbed and into the city. - Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org

 

Isaiah 45:1:

 

"This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:

[Guest Valk0010]

Here's the main prophecy I had in mind. I'll come back with more when my goddamn internet decides to let me post.

 

Babylon's gates would open for Cyrus

Bible prophecy: Isaiah 45:1

Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC

Prophecy fulfilled: 539 BC

 

In Isaiah 45:1, the prophet said God would open the gates of Babylon for Cyrus and his attacking army. Despite Babylon's remarkable defenses, which included moats, and walls that were more than 70-feet thick and 300-feet high, and 250 watchtowers, Cyrus was able to enter the city and conquer it. Cyrus and his troops diverted the flow of the Euphrates River into a large lake basin. Cyrus then was able to march his army across the riverbed and into the city. - Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org

 

Isaiah 45:1:

 

"This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:

A interesting problem with that line

 

So is cyrus somehow a messiah, because messiah means anointed one, at least according to that site.

 

I don't know enough about this to say for certain.

 

But is that verse originally in Isaiah and not just added in later?

 

Coincidence is also a possibility.

 

Cyrus will conquer Babylon

100prophecies.org claims that before 681 BCE the prophet Isaiah predicted Persia would defeat Babylon and furthermore that this prophecy was fulfilled in 539 BCE. They cite Isaiah 45:1 as predicting that "Babylon's gates would open for Cyrus": [11]

This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: (NIV)

Thus bible inerrantists would have us believe that Isaiah prophesied specifically that Cyrus would be Babylon's conqueror and would enter through gates, and that he made this prediction over 140 years before the event. In reality, this section of Isaiah was written shortly before 537 BCE, so even if the prediction was not made after the event its occurrence at least was imminent and the name of Cyrus would have been known.

Isaiah's reference to gates, although the actual means Cyrus used to gain entry to the city of Babylon, was nonetheless meant figuratively. This is evidenced by noting the continued use of obviously figurative language in the next verse:

I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. (NIV)

It should be noted that Babylon is not actually mentioned anywhere in the chapter.

It should also be noted that "anointed" as used in Isaiah 45:1 is translated into Hebrew as "messiah" and into Greek as "Christ." Although never admitted by Christians, this passage seems to assert that Cyrus is the messiah.

[edit]Unfulfilled prophecies that weren't

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies#Cyrus_will_conquer_Babylon

 

If that site is write then some dramatic prophecy becomes just a really good/easy guess.

 

Also check this out, and this is where 45:1 is in

http://jot.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/27/3/371

[Guest Valk0010]

I am not much of a OT scholars so forgive me on the sources.

[Guest confused idiot]

There's always dual ways of seeing it. It's endless. Hopeless. There's no use. The brainwashing is never gonna go away, that's obvious. I just have to get to the point where I don't give a damn. I've gotta get comfortable with being a "heathen".

[Guest Valk0010]

There's always dual ways of seeing it. It's endless. Hopeless. There's no use. The brainwashing is never gonna go away, that's obvious. I just have to get to the point where I don't give a damn. I've gotta get comfortable with being a "heathen".

Yeah there is different ways of seeing it. But who is right. When I was reading about this stuff for you, I was glancing over rebuttals to this stuff. Of course apologists are going to disagree. Some may genuinely disagree, but, at least I am under the suspicion there are just being contrarians, and are just trying to preserve there worldview. Creationists do it all the time.

 

The brainwashing does go away, man. Don't get hopeless then your really fucked.

[Guest Valk0010]

Took me forever to get used to the idea. I will not know every single little apologetic argument, or be a bible scholar.

 

That is why i got the point where I had to settle with.

 

I know what I believe and why.

[Guest confused idiot]

Took me forever to get used to the idea. I will not know every single little apologetic argument, or be a bible scholar.

 

That is why i got the point where I had to settle with.

 

I know what I believe and why.

 

That's a big problem with me - I don't.

[Guest Valk0010]

Took me forever to get used to the idea. I will not know every single little apologetic argument, or be a bible scholar.

 

That is why i got the point where I had to settle with.

 

I know what I believe and why.

 

That's a big problem with me - I don't.

 

I dunno, outside of lack of intellectual knowledge(curable), no offense but your reasons for christianity stink at least to me. If thought you were a apologist I would laugh at you.

[Guest confused idiot]

Took me forever to get used to the idea. I will not know every single little apologetic argument, or be a bible scholar.

 

That is why i got the point where I had to settle with.

 

I know what I believe and why.

 

That's a big problem with me - I don't.

 

I dunno, outside of lack of intellectual knowledge(curable), no offense but your reasons for christianity stink at least to me. If thought you were a apologist I would laugh at you.

 

Yeah, my reasons suck, and I would laugh at me too, if I was trying to be some learned apologist or scholar.

[Guest Valk0010]

I was having some problems a few months back, confusing about things like this.

 

And one of the questions I had to ask myself was.

 

Evidence and apologetics aside. If I look in the world? Do I see a God or no god?

 

And I noticed. I didn't.

 

Now some other people might think differently. But that is what I see. And its something I can't suppress or push away.

[Guest confused idiot]

I was having some problems a few months back, confusing about things like this.

 

And one of the questions I had to ask myself was.

 

Evidence and apologetics aside. If I look in the world? Do I see a God or no god?

 

And I noticed. I didn't.

 

Now some other people might think differently. But that is what I see. And its something I can't suppress or push away.

 

Since I've got my superglued on Jesus goggles, I'm biased to think of Yahweh/Jesus when I look around. But being completely honest, if I forget all that, and look around without bias, I still see something. I think it would be impossible for this to come together without some higher power being involved. And I swear, that's completely seperate from indoctrination, that's what I REALLY think.

[Guest Valk0010]

There was a few reasons I thought no god.

 

All the human suffering in the world, with natural disasters and the like was a big one.

 

How all the same we are, we grieve the same and all.

 

How is seems like we are just alone, not getting help, the sick die and all that. I have not seen a miracle ever.

 

The farthest i could get to a god, is just a creator god that doesn't care, because if there is a god, me looking at the world shows me, that the god doesn't give a rats ass if we lived died or starved.

[Guest Valk0010]

You can't really have a god that gives a shit, and have a world we live in my opinion.

[Guest confused idiot]

There was a few reasons I thought no god.

 

All the human suffering in the world, with natural disasters and the like was a big one.

 

How all the same we are, we grieve the same and all.

 

How is seems like we are just alone, not getting help, the sick die and all that. I have not seen a miracle ever.

 

The farthest i could get to a god, is just a creator god that doesn't care, because if there is a god, me looking at the world shows me, that the god doesn't give a rats ass if we lived died or starved.

 

Maybe deism.....

[Guest Valk0010]

There was a few reasons I thought no god.

 

All the human suffering in the world, with natural disasters and the like was a big one.

 

How all the same we are, we grieve the same and all.

 

How is seems like we are just alone, not getting help, the sick die and all that. I have not seen a miracle ever.

 

The farthest i could get to a god, is just a creator god that doesn't care, because if there is a god, me looking at the world shows me, that the god doesn't give a rats ass if we lived died or starved.

 

Maybe deism.....

 

It was the big reason I recommended the idea to you. The idea that he doesn't interfere and just created the world, bypasses things like the problem of evil and suffering and satisfies the idea of creation and all.

[Guest confused idiot]

There was a few reasons I thought no god.

 

All the human suffering in the world, with natural disasters and the like was a big one.

 

How all the same we are, we grieve the same and all.

 

How is seems like we are just alone, not getting help, the sick die and all that. I have not seen a miracle ever.

 

The farthest i could get to a god, is just a creator god that doesn't care, because if there is a god, me looking at the world shows me, that the god doesn't give a rats ass if we lived died or starved.

 

Maybe deism.....

 

It was the big reason I recommended the idea to you. The idea that he doesn't interview and just created the world, bypasses things like the problem of evil and suffering and satisfies the idea of creation and all.

 

On one hand it makes sense, but on the other hand, why would a god start things off and then just back off, never do anything else? That part of it makes it seem unlikely, to me.

[Guest Valk0010]

There was a few reasons I thought no god.

 

All the human suffering in the world, with natural disasters and the like was a big one.

 

How all the same we are, we grieve the same and all.

 

How is seems like we are just alone, not getting help, the sick die and all that. I have not seen a miracle ever.

 

The farthest i could get to a god, is just a creator god that doesn't care, because if there is a god, me looking at the world shows me, that the god doesn't give a rats ass if we lived died or starved.

 

Maybe deism.....

 

It was the big reason I recommended the idea to you. The idea that he doesn't interview and just created the world, bypasses things like the problem of evil and suffering and satisfies the idea of creation and all.

 

On one hand it makes sense, but on the other hand, why would a god start things off and then just back off, never do anything else? That part of it makes it seem unlikely, to me.

But then how else could you explain the problems of suffering and evil and the like? And leave in the concept of the creator god.

[Guest confused idiot]

There was a few reasons I thought no god.

 

All the human suffering in the world, with natural disasters and the like was a big one.

 

How all the same we are, we grieve the same and all.

 

How is seems like we are just alone, not getting help, the sick die and all that. I have not seen a miracle ever.

 

The farthest i could get to a god, is just a creator god that doesn't care, because if there is a god, me looking at the world shows me, that the god doesn't give a rats ass if we lived died or starved.

 

Maybe deism.....

 

It was the big reason I recommended the idea to you. The idea that he doesn't interview and just created the world, bypasses things like the problem of evil and suffering and satisfies the idea of creation and all.

 

On one hand it makes sense, but on the other hand, why would a god start things off and then just back off, never do anything else? That part of it makes it seem unlikely, to me.

But then how else could you explain the problems of suffering and evil and the like? And leave in the concept of the creator god.

 

Other than the idea of original sin/the fall (which doesn't make much sense)... I don't know. Because in the Olt Testament, it says God creates evil. Christians try to explain this away by saying evil means calamity in the original language, but if the text is inspired word for word (like KJV-onlyists claim), than that means it says what it says. So I don't know. I'm not sure.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

Other than the idea of original sin/the fall (which doesn't make much sense)... I don't know. Because in the Olt Testament, it says God creates evil. Christians try to explain this away by saying evil means calamity in the original language, but if the text is inspired word for word (like KJV-onlyists claim), than that means it says what it says. So I don't know. I'm not sure.

My opinion, you can't.

[Guest Valk0010]

Now were back to what i said earlier. You need to try your best to look at this stuff skeptically and unbiasedly.

[Guest confused idiot]

 

Other than the idea of original sin/the fall (which doesn't make much sense)... I don't know. Because in the Olt Testament, it says God creates evil. Christians try to explain this away by saying evil means calamity in the original language, but if the text is inspired word for word (like KJV-onlyists claim), than that means it says what it says. So I don't know. I'm not sure.

My opinion, you can't.

 

Not really, no. Aside from the fall in Genesis, I can't think of any ways to really explain it.