I'm Completely Lost...

[Guest Valk0010]

 

Other than the idea of original sin/the fall (which doesn't make much sense)... I don't know. Because in the Olt Testament, it says God creates evil. Christians try to explain this away by saying evil means calamity in the original language, but if the text is inspired word for word (like KJV-onlyists claim), than that means it says what it says. So I don't know. I'm not sure.

My opinion, you can't.

 

Not really, no. Aside from the fall in Genesis, I can't think of any ways to really explain it.

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

[Guest Valk0010]

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/

http://www.deism.com/

[Guest Valk0010]

Check out this article specifically

http://www.deism.com/beautydeism.htm

[FiddlingAround]

But being completely honest, if I forget all that, and look around without bias, I still see something. I think it would be impossible for this to come together without some higher power being involved. And I swear, that's completely seperate from indoctrination, that's what I REALLY think.

 

Hey CI. I don't really have any helpful advice at this point - other than that this looks rather promising. Here is at least one instance of you being able to separate out indoctrination from your own geniune opinions on the nature of the universe. It seems a good point to build from.

[Crazy Donna]

Here's the main prophecy I had in mind. I'll come back with more when my goddamn internet decides to let me post.

 

Babylon's gates would open for Cyrus

Bible prophecy: Isaiah 45:1

Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC

Prophecy fulfilled: 539 BC

 

In Isaiah 45:1, the prophet said God would open the gates of Babylon for Cyrus and his attacking army. Despite Babylon's remarkable defenses, which included moats, and walls that were more than 70-feet thick and 300-feet high, and 250 watchtowers, Cyrus was able to enter the city and conquer it. Cyrus and his troops diverted the flow of the Euphrates River into a large lake basin. Cyrus then was able to march his army across the riverbed and into the city. - Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org

 

Isaiah 45:1:

"This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut:

Cyrus the Persian had the largest empire on earth at the time, and the largest army in that part of the world. His resources were massive.

 

Replace 'Cyrus' with United States, and Babylon with Fiji, and you'll get the idea of the disparity between their armies. Cyrus had cavalry. It was no contest.

 

It would have happened eventually. Obviously this 'prophecy' was just made after the fact. It wasn't even something remarkable. It was bound to happen eventually. Cyrus the Persian had the biggest empire, and was known for attempts to increase it. He was also the first leader to enforce freedom of religion in his empire. That's how big it was. It encompassed that many cultures.

 

Just sayin, it's not really worthy of the title 'prophecy'. It's about as remarkable as me making toast tomorrow.

[Autonomous]

Confused, I think you would benefit from reading up on misery addiction/ self sabotage. Your pattern of moving towards action and then flaking is classic (I have BTDT). One book I found helpful is this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Misery-Company-Self-sabotage-Content/dp/1592850847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277716214&sr=8-1 but there are several others too.

 

I should add thanks, because I googled misery addiction looking for links to give to you, and came across the book, bought in and discovered it shed some light on my own issues! So thanks!

[RankStranger]

71 pages!

 

I knew you could do it, CI.

[Guest confused idiot]

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

 

I don't know really. Just a gut feeling/instinct kind of thing I guess. But I don't know what to make of it though.

 

 

 

Hey CI. I don't really have any helpful advice at this point - other than that this looks rather promising. Here is at least one instance of you being able to separate out indoctrination from your own geniune opinions on the nature of the universe. It seems a good point to build from.

 

Maybe, but I don't know what I TRULY believe. There's the stuff I've been taught, stuff I've indoctrinated myself with, there's opposing views about stuff from every direction, and then there's the fact that I don't really know what I believe to begin with. I'm confused.

 

 

 

Cyrus the Persian had the largest empire on earth at the time, and the largest army in that part of the world. His resources were massive.

 

Replace 'Cyrus' with United States, and Babylon with Fiji, and you'll get the idea of the disparity between their armies. Cyrus had cavalry. It was no contest.

 

It would have happened eventually. Obviously this 'prophecy' was just made after the fact. It wasn't even something remarkable. It was bound to happen eventually. Cyrus the Persian had the biggest empire, and was known for attempts to increase it. He was also the first leader to enforce freedom of religion in his empire. That's how big it was. It encompassed that many cultures.

 

Just sayin, it's not really worthy of the title 'prophecy'. It's about as remarkable as me making toast tomorrow.

 

That's interesting, if what you're saying is true. But I'll be honest, I don't know what to think about that.

 

 

Confused, I think you would benefit from reading up on misery addiction/ self sabotage. Your pattern of moving towards action and then flaking is classic (I have BTDT). One book I found helpful is this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Misery-Company-Self-sabotage-Content/dp/1592850847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277716214&sr=8-1 but there are several others too.

 

I should add thanks, because I googled misery addiction looking for links to give to you, and came across the book, bought in and discovered it shed some light on my own issues! So thanks!

 

I can't say I'm glad I have these problems, but I'm glad that they can benefit somebody.

 

 

71 pages!

 

I knew you could do it, CI.

 

I can't believe it. I almost feel embarrased.

[Guest Valk0010]

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

 

I don't know really. Just a gut feeling/instinct kind of thing I guess. But I don't know what to make of it though.

 

 

 

Trust your brain not feelings? Feelings can help, but not always.

[Guest confused idiot]

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

 

I don't know really. Just a gut feeling/instinct kind of thing I guess. But I don't know what to make of it though.

 

 

 

Trust your brain not feelings? Feelings can help, but not always.

 

My brain doesn't know what to think.

[Guest Valk0010]

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

 

I don't know really. Just a gut feeling/instinct kind of thing I guess. But I don't know what to make of it though.

 

 

 

Trust your brain not feelings? Feelings can help, but not always.

 

My brain doesn't know what to think.

Work on your bullshit meter then you will get somewhere, till them there is not much more I can do for you

[Guest confused idiot]

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

 

I don't know really. Just a gut feeling/instinct kind of thing I guess. But I don't know what to make of it though.

 

 

 

Trust your brain not feelings? Feelings can help, but not always.

 

My brain doesn't know what to think.

Work on your bullshit meter then you will get somewhere, till them there is not much more I can do for you

 

I have my doubts that can be fully fixed.

[Guest Valk0010]

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

 

I don't know really. Just a gut feeling/instinct kind of thing I guess. But I don't know what to make of it though.

 

 

 

Trust your brain not feelings? Feelings can help, but not always.

 

My brain doesn't know what to think.

Work on your bullshit meter then you will get somewhere, till them there is not much more I can do for you

 

I have my doubts that can be fully fixed.

Your defeatism doesn't help either

[Guest confused idiot]

Might as well say it. Now why do you bother if it doesn't make sense to you. Or is what your saying is a legit i dunno.

 

EDIT:Why do you bother trying to believe i mean.

 

I don't know really. Just a gut feeling/instinct kind of thing I guess. But I don't know what to make of it though.

 

 

 

Trust your brain not feelings? Feelings can help, but not always.

 

My brain doesn't know what to think.

Work on your bullshit meter then you will get somewhere, till them there is not much more I can do for you

 

I have my doubts that can be fully fixed.

Your defeatism doesn't help either

 

Any time I've ever been optimistic about anything, especially when it involves religion, I always ended up falling flat on my face, then getting more defeated than I was in the beginning.

[FiddlingAround]

Look, CI, obviously you're not going to figure this all out this week or even this month. It's going to take time. And right now, I don't think you're in real shape to be trying. The more you keep turning it in circles like this, especially feeling as defeated as you do now, the more tangled you're going to get.

 

So why don't you try something else for awhile. Just try not to obsess on it so much. Find other things to think about. When you find yourself thinking about religion, don't beat yourself up for it, or try and clamp down on the thought. Just look for something else to focus on. That will clear your head, give you some breathing room and help give you some grounding for the long - lifelong - process of learning about the universe and deciding what you think of it.

 

So how about it? Care to tell us something about what you're interested in that's not related to religion? Religious beliefs - or lack thereof - are only a small part of life, and hardly the best thing about it.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Any time I've ever been optimistic about anything, especially when it involves religion, I always ended up falling flat on my face, then getting more defeated than I was in the beginning.

defeatism doesn't help anymore

[Guest confused idiot]

Look, CI, obviously you're not going to figure this all out this week or even this month. It's going to take time. And right now, I don't think you're in real shape to be trying. The more you keep turning it in circles like this, especially feeling as defeated as you do now, the more tangled you're going to get.

 

So why don't you try something else for awhile. Just try not to obsess on it so much. Find other things to think about. When you find yourself thinking about religion, don't beat yourself up for it, or try and clamp down on the thought. Just look for something else to focus on. That will clear your head, give you some breathing room and help give you some grounding for the long - lifelong - process of learning about the universe and deciding what you think of it.

 

So how about it? Care to tell us something about what you're interested in that's not related to religion? Religious beliefs - or lack thereof - are only a small part of life, and hardly the best thing about it.

 

This makes a lot of sense. You're right. I'll try. But, I have to say, the reason I've obsessed over it so much, trying to figure it out, trying to decide what to do, is because until I know whether or not I'm going to be a Christian, my life is on hold. I don't want it to be, but it is. For example, my goals and ambitions will probably be different depending on whether or not I'm a Christian. My hobbies will be different. The way I talk, dress, act, etc., will all probably be different. Who I end up marrying will be different. The reason I stress so much to make a decision is because I just want to live my life... But I feel like I can't, until I put this behind me.

[FiddlingAround]

This makes a lot of sense. You're right. I'll try. But, I have to say, the reason I've obsessed over it so much, trying to figure it out, trying to decide what to do, is because until I know whether or not I'm going to be a Christian, my life is on hold. I don't want it to be, but it is. For example, my goals and ambitions will probably be different depending on whether or not I'm a Christian. My hobbies will be different. The way I talk, dress, act, etc., will all probably be different. Who I end up marrying will be different. The reason I stress so much to make a decision is because I just want to live my life... But I feel like I can't, until I put this behind me.

 

Long terms goals, I'll grant you. And in some ways it does make a difference in the smaller stuff. But honestly, my hobbies and lifestyle aren't that much different now than when I was a Christian. Enjoying the sun on a beautiful day isn't Christian or non-Christian - it's just life.

[Guest confused idiot]

This makes a lot of sense. You're right. I'll try. But, I have to say, the reason I've obsessed over it so much, trying to figure it out, trying to decide what to do, is because until I know whether or not I'm going to be a Christian, my life is on hold. I don't want it to be, but it is. For example, my goals and ambitions will probably be different depending on whether or not I'm a Christian. My hobbies will be different. The way I talk, dress, act, etc., will all probably be different. Who I end up marrying will be different. The reason I stress so much to make a decision is because I just want to live my life... But I feel like I can't, until I put this behind me.

 

Long terms goals, I'll grant you. And in some ways it does make a difference in the smaller stuff. But honestly, my hobbies and lifestyle aren't that much different now than when I was a Christian. Enjoying the sun on a beautiful day isn't Christian or non-Christian - it's just life.

 

What path I'm taking effects everything. If I give in to the mindfuck, I'll once again be stressing myself out and over analyzing everything about if ______ is sinful. Then I'll remember that the Bible says what is not from faith is sin, and how if you have doubts over something and do it anyway, that means you've sinned... Then I'll stress even more over the fact that my OCD like thoughts have deemed _____ sinful for me, even if it's not really in and of itself. Fuck that, it's flashbacks like that that remind me why my times as a dedicated Christian were the worst times in my life. Unless I somehow convince myself to officially make the decision to not give a damn, this won't work.

[Guest confused idiot]

 

 

Any time I've ever been optimistic about anything, especially when it involves religion, I always ended up falling flat on my face, then getting more defeated than I was in the beginning.

defeatism doesn't help anymore

 

Never said it helps. All I'm saying is, to a certain extent, optimisim is not realistic, or even healthy. Maybe I am a little bit too negative, but as far as I'm concerned, that's real. That's life.

[Guest Valk0010]

your already in hell, just do anything to make it better ANYTHING

[FiddlingAround]

[What path I'm taking effects everything. If I give in to the mindfuck, I'll once again be stressing myself out and over analyzing everything about if ______ is sinful. Then I'll remember that the Bible says what is not from faith is sin, and how if you have doubts over something and do it anyway, that means you've sinned... Then I'll stress even more over the fact that my OCD like thoughts have deemed _____ sinful for me, even if it's not really in and of itself. Fuck that, it's flashbacks like that that remind me why my times as a dedicated Christian were the worst times in my life. Unless I somehow convince myself to officially make the decision to not give a damn, this won't work.

 

It's certainly not going to be easy. And I don't have a whole lot of OCD-like though processes, so maybe I have no business talking. But you've got to try something. Just get out and enjoy things. Play it safe and just do things with no sin-factor if you need to.

 

What do you like to do?

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Any time I've ever been optimistic about anything, especially when it involves religion, I always ended up falling flat on my face, then getting more defeated than I was in the beginning.

defeatism doesn't help anymore

 

Never said it helps. All I'm saying is, to a certain extent, optimisim is not realistic, or even healthy. Maybe I am a little bit too negative, but as far as I'm concerned, that's real. That's life.

try realism, your going straight opposite of optimism

[Guest confused idiot]

your already in hell, just do anything to make it better ANYTHING

 

Ok, I'll come out with this statement:

 

If this stuff is real, that means God allowed me to get OCD/anxiety/whatever.

If this stuff is real, that means God demands me to follow Jesus, or suffer the consequences.

If this stuff is real, that means God knows that my OCD/anxiety/whatever is literally PREVENTING me from following Jesus.

If This stuff is real, that means God said "no" the MANY times I asked him to heal me for his glory.

If this stuff is real, then that means something don't add up.

 

I don't know how that helps anything, but I wanted to get that out.

[Guest confused idiot]

[What path I'm taking effects everything. If I give in to the mindfuck, I'll once again be stressing myself out and over analyzing everything about if ______ is sinful. Then I'll remember that the Bible says what is not from faith is sin, and how if you have doubts over something and do it anyway, that means you've sinned... Then I'll stress even more over the fact that my OCD like thoughts have deemed _____ sinful for me, even if it's not really in and of itself. Fuck that, it's flashbacks like that that remind me why my times as a dedicated Christian were the worst times in my life. Unless I somehow convince myself to officially make the decision to not give a damn, this won't work.

 

It's certainly not going to be easy. And I don't have a whole lot of OCD-like though processes, so maybe I have no business talking. But you've got to try something. Just get out and enjoy things. Play it safe and just do things with no sin-factor if you need to.

 

What do you like to do?

 

Trust me.... there's a sin factor with EVERYTHING. I recall one point where I thought I was gonna have to become a shut-in.

 

My biggest passion right now is music. And, of course, the music I like is obviously "the devil's music"..... I listened to a boatload of crap about the illuminati a while back, and how the occult relates to rock music, and demons, and... UGH. That left scars.