Im A Christian Again

[bdp]

 

 

We still kill people today via the death penalty. We also participate in wars...which is an act of trying to protect or love our "good" brothers.

 

I have no problem with the death penalty in some cases. I would never slaughter the sum total of humanity, even if I did create it myself.

[bdp]

 

 

 

 

The Bible says

 

a lot of weird-ass crap.

[Guest Justyna]

I have not been here in a little while, been super busy with life.

 

I do read every post, and no one is on ignore. You are really really going to have to do something horrible to be put on ignore by me. No one has yet..

 

Im really not a theologian or anything. I studied Psychology for my undergraduate and MBA for my masters. Now I just started the PhD in Psychology. So if it seems like I am not a theologian, it's cause I am not. I just have faith, and its been working well for me. Im really not interested in all these theories, and this that and the other. That is not why I am on this planet..to learn a bunch of theories that are ultimately man-made. I am here for one reason and that is for God..to be His vessel and know Him intimately, and do His will. It's really simple.

 

I love the dichotomy of it all. Some say that I seem to act like a child and that I know nothing. Others here are saying that I am a "know-it-all." Its find of weird if you ask me. For me it is about the heart of the matter. I try to go with my spirit and my heart....and not so much with my brain. Theories are nice, but we dont know everything.

 

To those that say that everything is in my mind etc. How can this be? Sooooooo many Christians have the same ideas, experiences and stories. So we are ALL deluded and brain-washed? Of course not!

 

It was funny, I recently got in contact with an old friend from childhood. She became a Christian and so did her father. I remember her father and he was not the type of person to believe, but he does now. Its amazing I tell you. It was good to hear that God is working.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

To those that say that everything is in my mind etc. How can this be? Sooooooo many Christians have the same ideas, experiences and stories. So we are ALL deluded and brain-washed? Of course not!

 

 

Wouldn't this count as a appeal to consensus

 

Okay, if your going to say that, then I guess islam(the second largest religion if I recall and the fastest growing one is deluded, yet your not.

 

You say you have faith, do you have evidence, no it seems otherwise why the appeal to a consensus or a majority.

[Guest Justyna]

Evidence?

 

I dont need evidence. I believe. Its simple.

 

 

Why do you NEED evidence? I just dont get this. Jesus said blessed are those that believe but do not see.

[Darklady]

That’s the most pathetic statement I have seen you make. You believe therefore it is? What is the difference to believing on Santa, or Thor, or fairies, or trolls, oh wait, you’re one of those.

[Guest Valk0010]

Evidence?

 

I dont need evidence. I believe. Its simple.

 

 

Why do you NEED evidence? I just dont get this. Jesus said blessed are those that believe but do not see.

To borrow from the bible, lets put it this way

 

I am doubting thomas, there is nothing I can do to change that.

 

You don't get it because its not in your holy book that is why it doesn't compute for you.

 

Here is a challenge think for once about this thread without thinking ohh the bible says whateverthefuck on it.

[Guest Valk0010]

Also appealing to a consensus or the numbers of a majority is a logic fallacy so you know justnya since either you know and don't care or don't know and don't care.

[Guest Justyna]

I dont believe in Santa Clause. Santa never said he was the Savior of the world...Jesus said He is. That is the difference. Jesus is the Son of God and He says so.

 

I have been hearing this comparison to Santa a couple times and it holds no water. Jesus said He is the Way the Truth and the Life. Santa did none of these things. That is the big difference.

[Guest Valk0010]

I dont believe in Santa Clause. Santa never said he was the Savior of the world...Jesus said He is. That is the difference. Jesus is the Son of God and He says so.

 

I have been hearing this comparison to Santa a couple times and it holds no water. Jesus said He is the Way the Truth and the Life. Santa did none of these things. That is the big difference.

Its not about what he did or didn't do its the type of story both tales are, mythos.

[Guest Justyna]

I dont think it is about logic. Jesus was God and then became man..that is not logical. Jesus did many miracles, that is not logical. Jesus died and took our sins, again no logic. Jesus rose from the dead....no logic.

 

Its about belief and faith. Logic will never really explain Jesus...He defies logic. He is way past that. We only have human logic...that is not enough. What we think up with our theories and concepts is nothing.

 

Those who do not believe in Jesus, their eyes have not been opened. They do not see, and they do not hear His voice.

[Guest Justyna]

Oh but it is about what Jesus said. He said He is the way, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him.

 

The Santa comparison is useless.

[Darklady]

Oh but it is about what Jesus said. He said He is the way, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him.

 

The Santa comparison is useless.

 

You said you don't need evidence, you just believe, I was pointing out the stupidity of that statement. We can say we believe in anything we want, but it doesn’t make it so. Grow up.

[oddbird1963]

I dont believe in Santa Clause. Santa never said he was the Savior of the world...Jesus said He is. That is the difference. Jesus is the Son of God and He says so.

 

I have been hearing this comparison to Santa a couple times and it holds no water. Jesus said He is the Way the Truth and the Life. Santa did none of these things. That is the big difference.

 

Justyna, I don't know if all Christians are deluded are not. I believe most are acting and thinking based on the preconditioning and religious education received at an early age.

 

I cannot bring myself to believe that you are studying at a post graduate level and have developed no critical thinking skills whatsoever. I haven't seen any real demonstrations of critical skills in your writings. It makes me wonder if you are practicing being unreasonable for some sort of graduate school project.

 

How do you know that Jesus actually said the things that were attributed to him? Sure, the NT contains those statements. But those statements were not written down by eyewitnesses. How do you know Jesus said he is the savior of the world? There are some very fine, knowledgeable scholars that believe he did not teach this at all.

 

So, how do YOU know?

 

Please try to apply some of the critical reasoning you must have developed in your college/university studies to answer this question. Or, please tell me the name of the schools you have attended so I can urge everyone I know to avoid these institutions.

 

thank you.

 

OB63

[Guest Valk0010]

I dont think it is about logic. Jesus was God and then became man..that is not logical. Jesus did many miracles, that is not logical. Jesus died and took our sins, again no logic. Jesus rose from the dead....no logic.

 

Its about belief and faith. Logic will never really explain Jesus...He defies logic. He is way past that. We only have human logic...that is not enough. What we think up with our theories and concepts is nothing.

 

Those who do not believe in Jesus, their eyes have not been opened. They do not see, and they do not hear His voice.

Ohh come on you can do better, for one that said they searched for truth you can do better then that.

 

It defied logic because it didn't happen. It is the delusional mythos of a cult, that is all the gospels is. Ever wondered why it said in john that it is written so that you might believe, don't you think it also could mean the gospels are in essence apologist propaganda works as well.

 

If it is about purely faith and belief then go away please justnya, you got one life to live, don't waste it here.

 

Appealing to the mysterious is a cop out, and its a typical religious way of preserving there fragile reality.

 

Its why when you know, the idea of faith was developed it was to keep there understanding and world together using a inaccurate representation of how things actually worked. If are god idea doesn't work to explain something, just appeal to his adhoc power and size. There you go explanation preserved, but guess what, people like me now its bullshit and its why you say that. It is to keep your untestable, and improvable explanation for things alive.

 

Logic is all we have to understand the world without it were fucked. The god idea was made by design so you can do what you just did to keep your reality going.

 

I know what you did isn't intention but there I just gave you the actual reason why that option is on the table.

 

Some peasants shit didn't explain something, so to get there way out of the situation, the idea of god being beyond us was born.

 

[Guest Justyna]

To me I feel blessed because I dont need to "reason it" or figure it all out, or anything like that. I have faith like a child and I feel blessed because of this. I dont have to go on some hunt to try to figure out theories and concepts, try to put them together to see if they fit etc. To me, Jesus is as real as I am. I had my doubts in the past, but I now attribute those doubts to satan trying to deceive me.

 

Im not going to say where I went to school because that would give away the city I live in. I really dont feel comftorable with that on this board. They are all accredited and good schools. Its not Harvard or Oxford, but they are good schools nevertheless.

[Crazy Donna]

I have not been here in a little while, been super busy with life.

 

I do read every post, and no one is on ignore. You are really really going to have to do something horrible to be put on ignore by me. No one has yet..

 

Im really not a theologian or anything. I studied Psychology for my undergraduate and MBA for my masters. Now I just started the PhD in Psychology. So if it seems like I am not a theologian, it's cause I am not. I just have faith, and its been working well for me. Im really not interested in all these theories, and this that and the other. That is not why I am on this planet..to learn a bunch of theories that are ultimately man-made. I am here for one reason and that is for God..to be His vessel and know Him intimately, and do His will. It's really simple.

 

I love the dichotomy of it all. Some say that I seem to act like a child and that I know nothing. Others here are saying that I am a "know-it-all." Its find of weird if you ask me. For me it is about the heart of the matter. I try to go with my spirit and my heart....and not so much with my brain. Theories are nice, but we dont know everything.

 

To those that say that everything is in my mind etc. How can this be? Sooooooo many Christians have the same ideas, experiences and stories. So we are ALL deluded and brain-washed? Of course not!

 

It was funny, I recently got in contact with an old friend from childhood. She became a Christian and so did her father. I remember her father and he was not the type of person to believe, but he does now. Its amazing I tell you. It was good to hear that God is working.

You use 'god' to explain things that you don't understand. If you actually thought a bit more deeply about things, instead of deferring everything to your imaginary god, you would be disgusted with that as an explanation.

 

You are grossly ignorant of your own religion, so much so that you have to invent it as you go along.

 

We rely on evidence because faith, especially faith that is leading us nowhere, is insufficient to explain things.

 

Whenever something good happens to you, you will rationalise it as god helping. Whenever something bad happens, you will rationalise it as either you fucking up, or as satan attacking you. More likely, satan attacking you, because christianity makes it impossible for you to be totally accountable for your actions. Whenever you do something good, it's god. Whenever you do something bad, you were 'led astray' by satan. Yeah, real accountable. NOT.

 

You say you are not a theologian. I am guessing you are relying on the magical powers of jesus to convert us through you. Obviously it is not working. That should be a big hint that what you believe is a lie. You're not really interested in theories, because theories don't support your religion. Doesn't it disturb you at all that the majority of science does not support a 'creation' or a creator god? Doesn't it disturb you that geology says that the earth is emphatically much older than 6000 years? Doesn't it disturb you at all that your god, according to your book, did horrendous things to humanity (such as the flood) which are not supported by geological evidence, or that there is insufficient water on earth for that to be possible? You don't look to hard, because you don't want to know. Then you come here and tell us to ignore what we know (because we bothered to look) and just agree with you.

 

You have no credibility. Your willful ignorance is alienating you and demonstrating that you have neither the empathy necessary to meet people who disagree with you halfway, and that you are intellectually too lazy to investigate our side. The reason we keep presenting arguments that you can't respond to isn't because god has deserted you in your attempt to convert us, it's because we've actually been on your side, and we know that your religion cannot stand up to such obvious arguments. You can't respond to our arguments, so you just deflect things and tell us to take things on faith. You either ignore our questions or arguments, (because you can't answer them) or tell us that god is an arsehole because he likes 'tough love'.

 

Have you tried what I suggested concerning attempting to believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy for ten minutes? NO? Why not? Choose an option. (1) Too lazy and disrespectful to try to meet others halfway or (2) too chickenshit scared to examine the obvious faults in your own religion.

 

You're dishonest. You should at least try to meet us halfway and understand our perspective before telling us we should take things on faith.

 

All christians are deluded, to some degree. If you can ignore what you know about reality enough to believe in virgin births and people coming back from the dead, and then tell yourself that a god who would kill millions for things he engineered them to do as their supposed creator, you are either deluded or morally bankrupt. I'd take deluded over believing that that many people are sickos with such contempt for humanity.

 

Your god is evil. Stop apologising for it and just accept it. Or are you too intellectually dishonest to even do that?

[centauri]

I dont believe in Santa Clause. Santa never said he was the Savior of the world...Jesus said He is. That is the difference. Jesus is the Son of God and He says so.

 

I have been hearing this comparison to Santa a couple times and it holds no water. Jesus said He is the Way the Truth and the Life. Santa did none of these things. That is the big difference.

(Santa is at least as powerful as Jesus.

Santa knows when you are sleeping and knows when you're awake, and if you've been naughty or nice.)

You seem to think that simple asserting creates reality.

Your entire belief system comes from a set of cult writings approved by male clerics that never saw or met Jesus.

You then pick selected parts and weave your version of Jesus and God around these bits of scripture.

Your personal theological musings, preferences, and whims are not valid or binding on anyone here.

The character "Jesus" is an unproved commodity, who according to the Bible, did not qualify as a king messiah, never made good on his promise of a return within the lifetimes of his followers, and had no authority as a "savior".

The tenet of a human blood sacrifice atoning for the sins of others contradicts the plan "God" set up long before Christianity came along and changed the rules.

You've also turned Jesus into God, contradicting what God told his people about himself.

All you've got is a version of God that magically fits your preferences.

[Guest Valk0010]

To me I feel blessed because I dont need to "reason it" or figure it all out, or anything like that. I have faith like a child and I feel blessed because of this. I dont have to go on some hunt to try to figure out theories and concepts, try to put them together to see if they fit etc. To me, Jesus is as real as I am. I had my doubts in the past, but I now attribute those doubts to satan trying to deceive me.

 

Im not going to say where I went to school because that would give away the city I live in. I really dont feel comftorable with that on this board. They are all accredited and good schools. Its not Harvard or Oxford, but they are good schools nevertheless.

Then your really good at compartmentalization then. Blegh why bother talking to someone who belongs in this catagory

 

 

 

I know I just fulfilled your growing martyr complex, but do I care no.

[Ouroboros]

Look, I see your point, but a theory has all the info we give it or conclude.

Exactly.

 

And if all the info we get points to one and only conclusion, is it wrong to make that conclusion?

 

All the info I got about Christianity (30 years + Bible school + reading the Bible many time through in several languages + much more + experience from real life) led me to one and only one conclusion: Jesus is not real. Then why do you insist on me to conclude the opposite?

 

The Bible says remain in faith because you don't have all the info.

I have enough information to be very certain of my view. All the information I gathered for 30 years doesn't even match a fraction of all the information against it in the last few years.

 

Basically, Jesus-belief-info=1 point, Against-Jesus-belief-info=1,000,000 points. So what do you want me to do? Scrap all the opposite information only because I HAVE to believe?

 

It's very simple. If information points against Big Bang, I will drop the belief in Big Bang in a micro second. If information points against Evolution, I will drop it immediately. But unfortunately, all the information on for and against I have seen, there are thousand times more to support Big Bang and Evolution than Jesus-waking-up-from-dead.

 

Sorry. It's just the way it is. The evidence in my life points away from God and Jesus. I am following the information to one and only one conclusion, and I can't go against it unless I deny the clear evidence.

 

So again, why should I deny ALL evidence against Jesus and only accept some flaky evidence FOR?

 

It gives you the theory and says you don't have the rest of the info to "conclude" and dismiss the theory.

I concluded from evidence. The theory I have is based on what I know. I lost my faith because reality didn't match fantasy. I sided with reality at last. And I feel it is more true than fantasy.

[Guest Justyna]

To me it is sad that those who are on here, do not believe. Of course I understand since I am on an ex-Christian forum...but it is sad that at one point you all believed...but dont anymore. I feel sad that most here have given up on God and accepted the worldly views instead. Its sad that no matter how many real Christians God sends into this foum to tell you the TRUTH...you refuse. You willfully choose death instead of life.

[Ouroboros]

To those that say that everything is in my mind etc. How can this be? Sooooooo many Christians have the same ideas, experiences and stories. So we are ALL deluded and brain-washed? Of course not!

Read "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" (link) by Charles Mackey.

 

So YES.

 

What about 1/3rd of the world being Muslim? Are they deluded and brain-washed? Of course NOT! According to you. They must have the truth TOO!!! How can that be.

 

I'm seriously fascinated by you, having a near degree in Psychology and don't know these things... Amazing...

[Ouroboros]

I dont think it is about logic. Jesus was God and then became man..that is not logical. Jesus did many miracles, that is not logical. Jesus died and took our sins, again no logic. Jesus rose from the dead....no logic.

Exactly. Agree. It's not about logic. It's about irrationality. It's illogical.

 

Its about belief and faith. Logic will never really explain Jesus...He defies logic. He is way past that. We only have human logic...that is not enough. What we think up with our theories and concepts is nothing.

Since you read psychology, you know delusional people actually believe their delusions. You know that... or don't you?

[oddbird1963]

To me I feel blessed because I dont need to "reason it" or figure it all out, or anything like that. I have faith like a child and I feel blessed because of this. I dont have to go on some hunt to try to figure out theories and concepts, try to put them together to see if they fit etc. To me, Jesus is as real as I am. I had my doubts in the past, but I now attribute those doubts to satan trying to deceive me.

 

Im not going to say where I went to school because that would give away the city I live in. I really dont feel comftorable with that on this board. They are all accredited and good schools. Its not Harvard or Oxford, but they are good schools nevertheless.

 

 

You know, I don't really care if you believe things because you believe them. That just makes you a something like a mystic or a pot-head or an acid head who just believes things. No problem there.

 

But when you go from "I believe in Jesus. I love jesus. Num num num num num! Jesus is so great!" to "people who need to reason things out" or who want well thought out reasons to believe" are deceived by Satan" then you are just being rude and mean. Especially since, by your own admission, you haven't reasoned anything out or thought about it.

 

I don't believe you are a psychology major. I think maybe you are under the treatment of a psychologist at an accredited institution and not a student or practitioner. Otherwise, you wouldn't have any trouble engaging our simple and reasonable questions. As it is, you seem to have a pathological need to avoid dialog. An MBA or Phd candidate in psycology would have no trouble presenting cogent reasons for believing what they believe to be true using vocabulary consistent with that educational level.

 

Edit - Oh, Justyna! I just noticed this little gem: ". You willfully choose death instead of life. " Who are you to say that? You're just being mean now.

 

Either believe because you believe and admit that you only believe because you believe or give coherent, logical reasons to believe.

[Ouroboros]

To me it is sad that those who are on here, do not believe.

Right. You were one before. And you were an ex-christian because you wanted to live in sin and you were angry at God.

 

The reason why you don't understand is because we didn't choose to wake up. We realized the delusion and broke free. You haven't.

 

Of course I understand since I am on an ex-Christian forum...but it is sad that at one point you all believed...but dont anymore. I feel sad that most here have given up on God and accepted the worldly views instead.

I call it reality.

 

 

Its sad that no matter how many real Christians God sends into this foum to tell you the TRUTH...you refuse. You willfully choose death instead of life.

You choose delusion instead of reality.