Ouroboros Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 HanSolo, don't you think it is our nature to NOT do things for anyone but our self interests? I'm just curious to know, when we go beyond our self centered ego, could that be labeled super natural? Maybe. Unselfishness is a tricky thing. It's hard to say if it really exists or not. Maybe it's an illusion? In a sense self centered is the natural, so yes, unselfish is unnatural or "super-natural". And that is the miracle. But not necessarely metaphysical. FWIW, I think that you have gone beyond natural... so I don't know if you could even answer that question objectively... because super natural has become natural for you, IMO. I think I have to meditate about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I was thinking today. If God do good and "evil" deeds in this world, evil in the sense that he lets some thousand people die in a flood, just to give people heads up that someone is in sin somewhere in the world, he's working for the greater good etc, and yet the Devil is doing the same kind of acts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HanSolo, we know this is not done to punish people for sins! Please! If hurricanes strike because we've been bad... then why was central Florida hit 3 times in less than 2 months last year? I live here, the home of Disney and Universal Studios... family entertainment, why did we get so many hurricanes so fast? It's because we're in Florida and not Ohio! Spirituality is not to change the things outside of us that we can not change. It is to change the way we perceive them. Often times when we change ourself, the world changes accordingly. The challenge is to find the way to change ourself, according to our environment. Changing everything inside of us so that the things outside have little effect, and by our change... the world of our concerns are stronger and a better place. The answers are not easy to find. Prayer is meditation, searching and considering all circumstances, and dwelling on finding the path that through us brings the most joyous outcome. I think the outcome has the possibility to be better than we could of dreamed, and that may seem like a miracle. I am still praying in regards to something in this manner involved with my life. I'll always have hope! What would otherwise be my alternatives, HanSolo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 The old axiom "god helps those who help themselves" might as well be "people help themselves." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe "God" is within us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Maybe "God" is within us? Or maybe human beings are actually doing the work themselves. It's a hard pill to swallow, I know. Christians don't want to think of human beings as being capable of doing things, otherwise -- gasp! -- there's no need for Biblegod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Prayer helped lead me to belive there is no god. So I guess in that sense prayer helped me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 HanSolo, don't you think it is our nature to NOT do things for anyone but our self interests? I'm just curious to know, when we go beyond our self centered ego, could that be labeled super natural? FWIW, I think that you have gone beyond natural... so I don't know if you could even answer that question objectively... because super natural has become natural for you, IMO. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMO there is no such thing as 'super natural' that I've ever seen. I'm open to the idea, but on the surface it sounds pretty ludicrous. Compassion is a natural human emotion. Compassion in action is not supernatural, regardless of the religions that claim to have a corner on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Amanda, when you say "christ nature", are you referring to Jesus Christ, or do you see that phrase meaning the good side of people, the side that feels fulfilled when doing something for no other reason than to help another person who needs help? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you Mythra! Jesus gave into this Christ nature completely... hence, Jesus Christ. Once we lose that self centered ego completely, we too become the annointed ones. It is NOT easy to put the greater cause ahead of our own! 'Holy' be thy name. A 'name' is how one knows and identifies someone! The name in the book of Life is only one name, IMO, and that is Holy. Once our name is THAT, how others identify us, then we are in heaven for eternity. Of course, I believe it is happening to everyone! No hurry. Let's enjoy the journey. However, I do believe the Spirit of Jesus is manifested in us to guide this process. I know it may sound crazy to you, but I do believe it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 IMO there is no such thing as 'super natural' that I've ever seen. I'm open to the idea, but on the surface it sounds pretty ludicrous. Compassion is a natural human emotion. Compassion in action is not supernatural, regardless of the religions that claim to have a corner on the market. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LloydDobler, I can see your views on this. Yet, let me ask you to consider how our compassion has grown immensely! We use to feed people to the lion on weekends for fun! Nail people to the cross, ok. We're getting better in how we treat our mentally insane/challenged. Our global pact to treat prisoners with some respect is an improvement. Women! Wow, that's a big one... we treat them better. Animal rights has evolved for the best. We've even put ol' Sparky (electric chair) to rest here in Florida. We are born with, and come from a history that is self centered. It has been necessary for survival in a sense. There is a part of us ALL that is continually evolving towards a common goal. The point being, we have this inner drive to what is respectful to ALL things. Why is that? All I'm saying, is that maybe that energy force within us is "God". That's all. You can give into it, or you can fight it. I, personally, think it will win in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Prayer helped lead me to belive there is no god. So I guess in that sense prayer helped me.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Or maybe your definition of God was wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydDobler Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 LloydDobler, I can see your views on this. Yet, let me ask you to consider how our compassion has grown immensely! We use to feed people to the lion on weekends for fun! Nail people to the cross, ok. We're getting better in how we treat our mentally insane/challenged. Our global pact to treat prisoners with some respect is an improvement. Women! Wow, that's a big one... we treat them better. Animal rights has evolved for the best. We've even put ol' Sparky (electric chair) to rest here in Florida. We are born with, and come from a history that is self centered. It has been necessary for survival in a sense. There is a part of us ALL that is continually evolving towards a common goal. The point being, we have this inner drive to what is respectful to ALL things. Why is that? All I'm saying, is that maybe that energy force within us is "God". That's all. You can give into it, or you can fight it. I, personally, think it will win in the end. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think all these things are due to the abandonment of superstition, not the embracing of it. Religion is actually a tremendously self centered concept. The idea that god chooses you and talks to you and wants to interact with you etc etc etc. Science and technology are at a peak, information exchange is at an all time high, maybe an educated society is the reason for all the things you cited. Maybe without knowledge, we'd still be burning witches in the name of the lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Helmet Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Tree still there? Blame the faith of the person (me, retard troll) praying to smite your tree. Must be too retard or major lack of faith (me again). Unfortunately for God it's been five days and the tree is still there. I wouldn't worry about your faith though, Jesus said if you have the faith the size of a mustard seed (can I buy faith by the pound?) you could do anything but since faith is essentialy immaterial you'll never have enough. Just hang in there, I'll pray harder. BTW other than testing my God, why do you want to destroy a carbon dioxide fighting good tree? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hehe you see I'm planning on destroying the earth, one tree at a time. Actually I believe if god is a part of this world and still acts today he should remind me of his presence because he's been quite absent for the past years... actually he's been pretty much away since I took my jesus colored glasses off. So I'm just knocking on the door to check if jesus is on the other side waiting for me to open. No point in opening the door a second time if it's only a prank. DH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 Science and technology are at a peak, God damn, I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm. I think I smell a rat. Pug is saying some VERY un-biblical stuff. Either he is VERY new and HORRIBLY uneducated, (and therefore should NOT be trying to teach his momma how to suck eggs), or else he's a fake. Mr. Grinch (from usher to elder), No you are not smelling a rat, perhaps a wet smelly dog? So amusing, coming from an ex-elder, un-biblical stuff. That could be a whole new thread all by itself. As i have already agreed with you gentle folks ~ which stories are biblical, myth, truth, contradictions, false? Where does biblical begin and un-biblical start? Pray enlighten me, the rookie troll. Un-educated? Perhaps, perhaps. But if you would kindly visit crosswalk.com you will discover at least... let me count, only have ten fingers and 10 toes... ummm.. quite a number of interpretations of just one quote. For example, the infamous Luke 14:24. Either way he needs to quit posting his bible "factoids." His lack of bible knowledge is embarrassing. Excuse me? Embarrassing to who? If you are embarrassed, please correct me. Minister to me. Lead me to the light. And who is the all-knowing one in scriptures in this world? No, not this forum-world. The world. Who can boast he has irreputable bible knowledge and the correct interpretation as meant by God? We poor mortals just have to help each other, right? It's the kind of crap that I rebuked in my church when I was an elder. Just curious. What was the outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi, Pug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hey Pugmiester... good question.... (I am not reading thru all 9 pages if this has been asked before , if so reference backfor me the answer - cool?) Will Jesus/Bible-God/PatRobertsonGod/God answer the prayers of non-believers? Specifically it is in alignment with his will? Seriously, I want you to answer this. Or any xian please. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMO, yes. The burden would be on the one praying for the un-believer. Some un-believers have even converted when their prayers were answered. But of course, some people will scoff it off as "chance, co-incidence". So be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 Some un-believers have even converted when their prayers were answered. Why would an unbeliever pray? I thought prayers were only answered if you're a believer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Religion is actually a tremendously self centered concept. The idea that god chooses you and talks to you and wants to interact with you etc etc etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lloyd Dobler.... Not 'me' at all! Actually, it says that the world, you, and I are one... it is only an illusion that we are separate. IMHO. Science and technology are at a peak, information exchange is at an all time high, maybe an educated society is the reason for all the things you cited. Maybe without knowledge, we'd still be burning witches in the name of the lord. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's a good thing that we've been using it basically for good, and not so much self centered goals. Sure, there are personal rewards/incentives... but the direction of its purpose is usually for the good of ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Science and technology are at a peak, information exchange is at an all time high, maybe an educated society is the reason for all the things you cited. I also hope this isn't a peak. I hope it's just the beginning of a long upward climb into what will eventually be a true Age of Reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Why would an unbeliever pray? I thought prayers were only answered if you're a believer? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Fwee! My bad. I mean a believer praying for/on behalf of an un-believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Fwee, Some un-believers have even converted when their prayers were answered... but their prayers were prayed on behalf of them by believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hey Fwee! My bad. I mean a believer praying for/on behalf of an un-believer. Okay, I see now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi, Pug. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And especially this thread which started off (by you Fwee ~ did i forget to thank you? Thanks.) as a mocking one. Did some one pray for it to be ignored? Did some one pray for it to be a blessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 And especially this thread which started off (by you Fwee ~ did i forget to thank you? Thanks.) as a mocking one. It still stands as such. So far, no show on the results. Did some one pray for it to be ignored? I guess doing so would be about as effective as any other prayer. Did some one pray for it to be a blessing? Would it really matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Ummmm.... Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Fwee, Some un-believers have even converted when their prayers were answered... but their prayers were prayed on behalf of them by believers. So how do you pray to Jesus to come into your heart, if you are a non-believer? (Hypothetically speaking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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