I Repent

[Phanta]

My counselor doesn't accept insurance. She operates on a sliding scale. Cash. If I were secretive about her, no one would ever know.

 

As it happens, I refer everyone and their mother to her. But if I wanted it to be private, it would be. Not even an insurance company to answer to. She also doesn't push meds. And she's not a Christian.

 

Phanta

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

My counselor doesn't accept insurance. She operates on a sliding scale. Cash. If I were secretive about her, no one would ever know.

 

As it happens, I refer everyone and their mother to her. But if I wanted it to be private, it would be. Not even an insurance company to answer to. She also doesn't push meds. And she's not a Christian.

 

Phanta

 

If I could find someone like that, I would do it.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I went to Barnes and Noble today and looked at some philosophy type books that had to do with atheism. I skimmed a couple of them. I thought about buying one of them, but it didn't have, from what I read, much more info than what I already knew and had read about. I didn't want to pay 18 bucks for that. I like the atheistic mindset and worldview a lot, most of it makes a lot of sense to me. Until I get to the part about the unknown and seemingly impossible origins of the universe, pre-big bang. Everything I've ever read seems to give this answer to that question - "We don't know yet." That's not a good enough answer. It seems like people always, when asked how the universe came about by itself, they answer it with another question - "How did God come about?" Something can't come from nothing. "What about God?" Things like that. Answering a question with another question doesn't answer anything. It doesn't work like that.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

My sorry ass doesn't belong here. I'm taking some time away.

[Guest Valk0010]

Answering a question with another question doesn't answer anything. It doesn't work like that.

It works if its a question you would have to answer, if your going to pose something like god as a answer. You got to explain both. Makes things worse not better really.

[Eemaan]

What is gone and gone, and we all have times we regret. For the future is to be better and not repeat the same mistakes. Time cannot go back, but you go out there and find what you are looking for. The bible is distorted (no offense to Christians) but even Christians agree it is not pure? Therefore it is natural you find things not pleasing. But God has sent prophets again and again to guide mankind, so if you believe in God. God said in the Qur'an that he will not forsake those who turn to Him.

 

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calls on Me: let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: that they may walk in the right way." (Surah Al-Baqarah 2, verse 186)

 

It is kind of similar to the bible, because Jesus was also a prophet of Allah. And the last prophet is Muhammad pbuh was sent to complete and perfect the religion. And Qur'an is perfect, protected and final word for all humanity.

 

Dont give up.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

It works if its a question you would have to answer, if your going to pose something like god as a answer. You got to explain both. Makes things worse not better really.

 

Exactly my point, you have to answer both. Which usually doesn't happen. Adding another question to a question that is already unanswered solves nothing. It only adds more questions, and gives no answers.

 

What is gone and gone, and we all have times we regret. For the future is to be better and not repeat the same mistakes. Time cannot go back, but you go out there and find what you are looking for. The bible is distorted (no offense to Christians) but even Christians agree it is not pure? Therefore it is natural you find things not pleasing. But God has sent prophets again and again to guide mankind, so if you believe in God. God said in the Qur'an that he will not forsake those who turn to Him.

 

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calls on Me: let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: that they may walk in the right way." (Surah Al-Baqarah 2, verse 186)

 

It is kind of similar to the bible, because Jesus was also a prophet of Allah. And the last prophet is Muhammad pbuh was sent to complete and perfect the religion. And Qur'an is perfect, protected and final word for all humanity.

 

Dont give up.

 

I do not believe that the Bible is the perfect, infallible, literal word of God anymore. I can't go back to that belief. But, I'm also not any more convinced by the Qur'an.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Fuck it, I say I'm taking some time off, yet I come back and post anyway. What I say I'll do, I don't, and what I say I won't do, I do.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I'm searching hard for the truth. At this point, I'm 90% sure that the Bible absolutely cannot be the word of God. At this moment in time, that's what I truly believe. Yet, at the same time, I can't come to a conclusion on anything. Nothing in the belief realm makes any sense. I believe that the Bible can't be the word of God, yet, at the same time, there are things that I know to be true that REQUIRE Christianity to be true. Maybe Christianity is true, but the Bible is not infallible, this I know. So if there is any truth to it, how do we know which parts are true and which parts are not? We don't. We can't. Nothing makes sense. In a sense, Christianity has to be true, but in another sense, there's no way it even can be.

[RankStranger]

I went to Barnes and Noble today and looked at some philosophy type books that had to do with atheism. I skimmed a couple of them. I thought about buying one of them, but it didn't have, from what I read, much more info than what I already knew and had read about. I didn't want to pay 18 bucks for that. I like the atheistic mindset and worldview a lot, most of it makes a lot of sense to me. Until I get to the part about the unknown and seemingly impossible origins of the universe, pre-big bang. Everything I've ever read seems to give this answer to that question - "We don't know yet." That's not a good enough answer. It seems like people always, when asked how the universe came about by itself, they answer it with another question - "How did God come about?" Something can't come from nothing. "What about God?" Things like that. Answering a question with another question doesn't answer anything. It doesn't work like that.

 

 

I'm searching hard for the truth. At this point, I'm 90% sure that the Bible absolutely cannot be the word of God. At this moment in time, that's what I truly believe. Yet, at the same time, I can't come to a conclusion on anything. Nothing in the belief realm makes any sense. I believe that the Bible can't be the word of God, yet, at the same time, there are things that I know to be true that REQUIRE Christianity to be true. Maybe Christianity is true, but the Bible is not infallible, this I know. So if there is any truth to it, how do we know which parts are true and which parts are not? We don't. We can't. Nothing makes sense. In a sense, Christianity has to be true, but in another sense, there's no way it even can be.

 

Sometimes "I don't know" is the only HONEST answer to a question. That can be difficult to accept- it's counter to what our culture teaches us, AND we have a natural drive to build a working understanding of our world that we can act on. But as much as I WANT to have all the answers, my own life experience tells me that I don't... moreover I can't in come cases- particularly when these big, existential questions come up. I don't like it either- it's not exactly a satisfying world view. But it IS honest.

 

In my experience, there is a direct correlation between certainty and ignorance. It's a bit counterintuitive... but so many things in life are. The less a person knows, and the smaller their world is... the more certain they generally are of their world-view. It's easy to carry that certainty with you if you actively filter out anything that contradicts your own point of view. And in my own experience, the more I learn about the world and the more I get outside my own comfort zone, the more I realize that there are lifetimes' worth of knowledge out there that I don't know... and will never know. Among my own peers, I'm generally the smartest guy in the room (and an arrogant sonofabitch, too). And I realize that my own understanding of the world and my own technical knowledge is only a tiny, tiny sliver of what's out there.

 

I remember the first time I got a little perspective on just how much I DON'T know. I was in the library at a small, nondescript university out in BFE Kansas. I was looking through some books on the history of the bible (writing a speech about it... stirring shit up to break up the boredom in a 100-level gen-ed class). I realized that every one of those books contained more information on the subject than I would ever know. There were hundreds of such books just on that single shelf. And there were dozens of shelves just on the subject of religion. Not to mention dozens more general subjects covered in that library, with hundreds or even thousands of books PER SUBJECT. And this was just in one library at a small, nondescript university. Does that give you any idea just how little WE know compared to what's out there? It's not a comforting thought... nor is it satisfying. But it's definitely more HONEST than just taking the word of some bible-thumper who claims absolute certainty- when you know damn well he can't back it up.

 

 

 

 

About that therapy thing. You can be fairly confidential about it as long as YOU are the one paying for it (or at least YOUR insurance is). But that's no way to approach it, and no way to solve the problem. You need help, and you should be willing to admit that. I know it's no fun to be vulnerable- but if you're going to solve this problem, you're gonna have to OWN it. You can't wish it away, and hiding it will only make it worse IMO- ocd IS an anxiety disorder.

 

No need to tell everybody that you're going to therapy; no need to advertise it. But IMO, it would be a much healthier approach if you were willing to tell people if they ask.

 

I do worry, though, that seeings how you're in Mississippi- a non-Christian therapist might be hard to come by. Too bad you aren't in Kansas- maybe you could talk to my wife. She deals with OCD clients all the time... and even has some OCD symptoms of her own.

[Vigile]

Damn nice post Rank. You pretty much just reiterated my own personal manifesto.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Sometimes "I don't know" is the only HONEST answer to a question. That can be difficult to accept- it's counter to what our culture teaches us, AND we have a natural drive to build a working understanding of our world that we can act on. But as much as I WANT to have all the answers, my own life experience tells me that I don't... moreover I can't in come cases- particularly when these big, existential questions come up. I don't like it either- it's not exactly a satisfying world view. But it IS honest.

 

In my experience, there is a direct correlation between certainty and ignorance. It's a bit counterintuitive... but so many things in life are. The less a person knows, and the smaller their world is... the more certain they generally are of their world-view. It's easy to carry that certainty with you if you actively filter out anything that contradicts your own point of view. And in my own experience, the more I learn about the world and the more I get outside my own comfort zone, the more I realize that there are lifetimes' worth of knowledge out there that I don't know... and will never know. Among my own peers, I'm generally the smartest guy in the room (and an arrogant sonofabitch, too). And I realize that my own understanding of the world and my own technical knowledge is only a tiny, tiny sliver of what's out there.

 

I remember the first time I got a little perspective on just how much I DON'T know. I was in the library at a small, nondescript university out in BFE Kansas. I was looking through some books on the history of the bible (writing a speech about it... stirring shit up to break up the boredom in a 100-level gen-ed class). I realized that every one of those books contained more information on the subject than I would ever know. There were hundreds of such books just on that single shelf. And there were dozens of shelves just on the subject of religion. Not to mention dozens more general subjects covered in that library, with hundreds or even thousands of books PER SUBJECT. And this was just in one library at a small, nondescript university. Does that give you any idea just how little WE know compared to what's out there? It's not a comforting thought... nor is it satisfying. But it's definitely more HONEST than just taking the word of some bible-thumper who claims absolute certainty- when you know damn well he can't back it up.

 

Even though there's still the "fear of the unknown" aspect of it, I can accept that we don't, and can't have all the answers. I've already accepted that, even though I have "what if?" type thoughts and fears pop up in my head all the time. In the first post of mine that you quoted, when I said that "we don't know" isn't a good enough answer, I meant it in a different kind of way. I meant it in regards to the specific question of, how could life originate without a creator. When trying to figure out how this seemingly impossible event could happen, the only real answer I can find, for the most part, is "We don't know." For such an important question, where people's eternities might be at stake, "I don't know" is not a good enough answer. It's not an answer at all. For this theory to work, people need to know the answer to that question, or at the very least, have an idea that makes sense and could easily work. I have next to no scientific education at all, so I'm stupid when it comes to the scientific arguments. I'm approaching this question purely from a philosophical perspective.

 

 

 

About that therapy thing. You can be fairly confidential about it as long as YOU are the one paying for it (or at least YOUR insurance is). But that's no way to approach it, and no way to solve the problem. You need help, and you should be willing to admit that. I know it's no fun to be vulnerable- but if you're going to solve this problem, you're gonna have to OWN it. You can't wish it away, and hiding it will only make it worse IMO- ocd IS an anxiety disorder.

 

I would be paying for it, at least I would be if I was doing it confidentially and without insurance.

 

No need to tell everybody that you're going to therapy; no need to advertise it. But IMO, it would be a much healthier approach if you were willing to tell people if they ask.

 

I know I said otherwise, but truthfully, it's not that I care for people knowing. If someone asks me, I would tell them, no problem. The reason I want it to be anonymous is because I don't want my parents to know.

 

I do worry, though, that seeings how you're in Mississippi- a non-Christian therapist might be hard to come by. Too bad you aren't in Kansas- maybe you could talk to my wife. She deals with OCD clients all the time... and even has some OCD symptoms of her own.

 

It would be very hard to find a non-Christian therapist, you're right about that.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Does anyone have any experience with Zoloft?

 

I took 100mg every day for about a month, and I didn't show any signs of improvement, so I quit, cold turkey. Back when I went to see that shrink, he suggested that I start back taking it, saying that I didn't give it long enough and that I needed to be on a higher dosage. He gave me another prescription for it, and told me to take half a pill (50mg) for 2 days, then to take a full pill (100mg) for 14 days, and then after that take 1 and a half (150mg). At the time I felt like I'd had enough of all counseling, psychiatrists, and meds, so I didn't start back on the medicine. I just now found the prescription for it and I'm going to try it again. I hate waiting for it to work, because it may take 2 months to even notice any change, which pisses me off. On top of that it will have side effects. But what the hell, I'll try it anyway. If it does anything at all, I just want it to lessen the insanity of this fucking OCD.

[ilovemybrain]

Does anyone have any experience with Zoloft?

 

I took 100mg every day for about a month, and I didn't show any signs of improvement, so I quit, cold turkey. Back when I went to see that shrink, he suggested that I start back taking it, saying that I didn't give it long enough and that I needed to be on a higher dosage. He gave me another prescription for it, and told me to take half a pill (50mg) for 2 days, then to take a full pill (100mg) for 14 days, and then after that take 1 and a half (150mg). At the time I felt like I'd had enough of all counseling, psychiatrists, and meds, so I didn't start back on the medicine. I just now found the prescription for it and I'm going to try it again. I hate waiting for it to work, because it may take 2 months to even notice any change, which pisses me off. On top of that it will have side effects. But what the hell, I'll try it anyway. If it does anything at all, I just want it to lessen the insanity of this fucking OCD.

 

If it's not working well for you, just ask the doctor to try you on another med. For most people, it takes a couple tries to get the ones that work best for you. Yes, it's a pain in the ass to start one, wait for it to kick in, give it a fair trial, putting up with the side effects, and then do it all over again, but speaking from experience, it's worth it when you find one that makes you feel even-keeled and sane, and has few, if any side effects. Because everyone's body is different.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

That's it, I can't take it anymore. The constant hatred of atheists, muslims, anyone who's not a fundamentalist Christian, the constant talk about how everything and everyone is evil, the constant televangelist shit on TV, the CONSTANT talk about how we're in the end times, the end is coming, the signs, how evil the world (in other words, everyone except Christians) is, how bad things are getting, all the talk about Israel, their connection with the end times prophecies that are apparently being fulfilled, the unhealthy obsessions with all of this shit, the conspiracy theories, the politics, the news, all of it, I'M SICK OF THIS SHIT! I can't take it anymore, I feel like I'm just a few steps away from having an anxiety attack. I have to get the hell out of this hick town. I want to, I need to, but I don't know how... I don't know what steps to take....

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

and on top of that, the feeling that they're right! Especially about Israel. Am I in denial? Am I under conviction? Is everything I fear true? FUCK!!!!

[Overcame Faith]

and on top of that, the feeling that they're right! Especially about Israel. Am I in denial? Am I under conviction? Is everything I fear true? FUCK!!!!

 

Is it the end-times issues that bother you? If so, try spelling out exactly what it is that bothers you and maybe we can address it.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

Exactly my point, you have to answer both. Which usually doesn't happen. Adding another question to a question that is already unanswered solves nothing. It only adds more questions, and gives no answers.

 

But if you can't answer both, guess what your left with a I dunno, not a god answer, not a natural answer, a I dunno. And if that is your most honest opinion, be happy with that.

[Guest Valk0010]

I'm searching hard for the truth. At this point, I'm 90% sure that the Bible absolutely cannot be the word of God. At this moment in time, that's what I truly believe. Yet, at the same time, I can't come to a conclusion on anything. Nothing in the belief realm makes any sense. I believe that the Bible can't be the word of God, yet, at the same time, there are things that I know to be true that REQUIRE Christianity to be true. Maybe Christianity is true, but the Bible is not infallible, this I know. So if there is any truth to it, how do we know which parts are true and which parts are not? We don't. We can't. Nothing makes sense. In a sense, Christianity has to be true, but in another sense, there's no way it even can be.

Ever thought about reexamine the bold part. Because here is the contradiction you got, and its bullshit. If god is all powerful his books should be infallible and perfect. If its not, then there is something wrong with the god idea. If I were you, and in this situation, I would go with what, makes the majority sense. So if more of you says Christianity is BS go with that and follow that to explain away the part the bugs the other half of you. Because look religion is meant to be explanatory, if the most sensible of you multiple ideas in your head is Christianity is BS, go with that. And also think about this, if it was trye, there would be no "sense" thing about it, it either is or isn't true.

[Guest Valk0010]

and on top of that, the feeling that they're right! Especially about Israel. Am I in denial? Am I under conviction? Is everything I fear true? FUCK!!!!

You get the feeling they might be right, because of the level of there conviction and what you have been taught by them, and what you used to believe more then life itself. Form your own opinion for fuck sake, screw them(no offence).

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Is it the end-times issues that bother you? If so, try spelling out exactly what it is that bothers you and maybe we can address it.

 

A lot of things bother me, but what I was mainly talking about there was Israel. Things dealing with prophecy, the way that Israel always prevails, even when the odds are strongly against them, how they can defeat their enemies in war even when they are vastly outnumbered, how their country is, from my understanding, basically the center of the world, how people who support Israel are generally blessed, and how people who attack Israel always fail, just basically how they appear to truly have a living God on their side, throughout history.

 

But if you can't answer both, guess what your left with a I dunno, not a god answer, not a natural answer, a I dunno. And if that is your most honest opinion, be happy with that.

 

Be honest.... does that answer really make any sense? Is that really something that a person can base a firm belief on?

 

Ever thought about reexamine the bold part. Because here is the contradiction you got, and its bullshit. If god is all powerful his books should be infallible and perfect. If its not, then there is something wrong with the god idea. If I were you, and in this situation, I would go with what, makes the majority sense. So if more of you says Christianity is BS go with that and follow that to explain away the part the bugs the other half of you. Because look religion is meant to be explanatory, if the most sensible of you multiple ideas in your head is Christianity is BS, go with that. And also think about this, if it was trye, there would be no "sense" thing about it, it either is or isn't true.

 

Yes, it is a contradiction, I know. Which is why it doesn't make sense. One thing is for sure, something has to be strongly reexamined, whether it's one thing or the other.

 

 

You get the feeling they might be right, because of the level of there conviction and what you have been taught by them, and what you used to believe more then life itself. Form your own opinion for fuck sake, screw them(no offence).

 

Yes, I know, but I'm vulnerable and insecure in my own beliefs (or lack thereof), and I'm constantly surrounded by this shit, so it gets to me.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

Be honest.... does that answer really make any sense? Is that really something that a person can base a firm belief on?

Thought that was called agnosticism, I dunno and you don't either.

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

A lot of things bother me, but what I was mainly talking about there was Israel. Things dealing with prophecy, the way that Israel always prevails, even when the odds are strongly against them, how they can defeat their enemies in war even when they are vastly outnumbered, how their country is, from my understanding, basically the center of the world, how people who support Israel are generally blessed, and how people who attack Israel always fail, just basically how they appear to truly have a living God on their side, throughout history.

 

Some luck, maybe on of the best militaries in the world. The United States funding them. Typically the people that fail against israel fail against other countries like the US. And the reasons for that are very not divine. Alot of prophecy is lame, its reading into things what you want.

 

And think about it, if prochecy is bugging you. You might as well be jewish.

[Guest I Love Dog]

A lot of things bother me, but what I was mainly talking about there was Israel. Things dealing with prophecy, the way that Israel always prevails, even when the odds are strongly against them, how they can defeat their enemies in war even when they are vastly outnumbered, how their country is, from my understanding, basically the center of the world, how people who support Israel are generally blessed, and how people who attack Israel always fail, just basically how they appear to truly have a living God on their side, throughout history.

 

Yes, I know, but I'm vulnerable and insecure in my own beliefs (or lack thereof), and I'm constantly surrounded by this shit, so it gets to me.

 

"Prophecy" is nothing more than people trying to best guess the future. sometimes they are right, most times not, or the prophesies can be vague and open to interpretaion so it appears that they were right. No one can really "see" into the future. They can make predictions about what may possibly happen or they can make predictions that will probably happen, like the sun still shining in 1000 years time. predictions can be based on past records or on probabilities.

 

The might of the USA is behind Israel and has been for a long time. Only if Israel's enemies are backed by other super powers can their enemies hope to win. It's nothing to do with a god, although their belief may give them an added strength, as USA does when stating that they have "god on their side". It's to give the country a belief and inspiration that they can suceed, a positive attitude and gods have always been used in that way throughout history. This is how the bible was written, by Hebrew scribes wanting to inspire the Hebrews/Jews to succeed in battle and in finding a homeland. It was really nothing to do with predicing what may come for humanity, only the Hebrews/Jews, it's just that the Romans decided to use what the scribes had written as part of their New and Official Christianity.

 

Of course the Hebrew/Jewish god didn't help the Jews at all in Europe, very few were spared by Hiter, who was also acting with "god on his side", the same god that the Jews worshiped, the god that the Hebrews had worshiped for thousands of years but it did them no good.

 

The Muslims in Iraq, who also worship the same god as the US who invaded them weren't spared by their worship and belief. So, does god play favorites? Why would god choose to allow millions of people who probably worship him far more devoutly than most Christians do, die in Europe, Iraq, Palestine? Could it possibly be that there is no god?

 

.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

Thought that was called agnosticism, I dunno and you don't either.

 

I wasn't talking about agnosticism, I was talking about atheism. If someone's answer is "I don't know" then I would be hesitant in calling them an atheist.

 

 

Some luck, maybe on of the best militaries in the world. The United States funding them. Typically the people that fail against israel fail against other countries like the US. And the reasons for that are very not divine. Alot of prophecy is lame, its reading into things what you want.

 

And think about it, if prochecy is bugging you. You might as well be jewish.

 

Might as well be Jewish, yeah. It seems more like Judaism would be true to me, and Christianity a false offspring of it. But I still couldn't convert just based on the Old Testament, because there's a lot of crazy shit in there that I have a hard time believing actually happened. Crazy laws that any idiot would know are stupid and wrong. Most of it seems like nothing more tham mythology. Actually, the New Testament doesn't convince me either. Reading it without any bias, knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't believe any of it at all.

 

 

"Prophecy" is nothing more than people trying to best guess the future. sometimes they are right, most times not, or the prophesies can be vague and open to interpretaion so it appears that they were right. No one can really "see" into the future. They can make predictions about what may possibly happen or they can make predictions that will probably happen, like the sun still shining in 1000 years time. predictions can be based on past records or on probabilities.

 

The might of the USA is behind Israel and has been for a long time. Only if Israel's enemies are backed by other super powers can their enemies hope to win. It's nothing to do with a god, although their belief may give them an added strength, as USA does when stating that they have "god on their side". It's to give the country a belief and inspiration that they can suceed, a positive attitude and gods have always been used in that way throughout history. This is how the bible was written, by Hebrew scribes wanting to inspire the Hebrews/Jews to succeed in battle and in finding a homeland. It was really nothing to do with predicing what may come for humanity, only the Hebrews/Jews, it's just that the Romans decided to use what the scribes had written as part of their New and Official Christianity.

 

Of course the Hebrew/Jewish god didn't help the Jews at all in Europe, very few were spared by Hiter, who was also acting with "god on his side", the same god that the Jews worshiped, the god that the Hebrews had worshiped for thousands of years but it did them no good.

 

The Muslims in Iraq, who also worship the same god as the US who invaded them weren't spared by their worship and belief. So, does god play favorites? Why would god choose to allow millions of people who probably worship him far more devoutly than most Christians do, die in Europe, Iraq, Palestine? Could it possibly be that there is no god?

 

.

 

Most prophecies are vague, I know, maybe all of them are, I don't know because I haven't finished reading the OT yet. All I know is, Christians seem to think they're anything but vague.

 

By the way, Christians and Muslims do not worship the same god.