mcdaddy Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Maybe you did mention it too TF? Or co-recommended it? Idk. Not trying to grab credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted August 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 16, 2012 Maybe you did mention it too TF? Or co-recommended it? Idk. Not trying to grab credit. I think I just linked it instead of telling her to search for it. You brought it up. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 ok i have gotten emails that I have listened to.......some i tried to respond to but couldnt figure out how............to those of you who sent me stuff........TYTY if I don't acknowledge you..........it's because i'm an IDIOT at this thing.......i rarely respond to the right person........and if i do .....was probably an accident....please forgive yall...........am doing my best here ..........patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 thank you true freedom.........can't get book, but am trudging on through all the videos I've been sent.........ty so much for those!!!!!!!!!!!! xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted August 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 16, 2012 You're welcome, Patty (should we call you Patty?). Let us know if you are struggling with a particular concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Maybe you did mention it too TF? Or co-recommended it? Idk. Not trying to grab credit. i have still not learned how to respond to an email........i would give credit to whomever if i could do that.........will hopefully learn how soon......plz forgive me alll for not responding to you directly.......am trying my best ..........yes, call me Patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Citsonga...........am so sorry for what you are/were going through! I know how hard it is. Yes, I have 2 great kids helping me. But, I have a husband who thinks I'm on the verge of crazy .......lol........and the rest of my family doesn't speak to me anymore......my parents are gone.... so just had a sister and her family.....neices and nehpews who I have been very close to........they don't talk to me.......or answer my emails......until I "get a grip and stop being so stupid"..........I can relate to what you are saying..........hopefully we get through this with our family at least speaking to us! ty for talking to me , Patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Citsonga...........am so sorry for what you are/were going through! I know how hard it is. Yes, I have 2 great kids helping me. But, I have a husband who thinks I'm on the verge of crazy .......lol........and the rest of my family doesn't speak to me anymore......my parents are gone.... so just had a sister and her family.....neices and nehpews who I have been very close to........they don't talk to me.......or answer my emails......until I "get a grip and stop being so stupid"..........I can relate to what you are saying..........hopefully we get through this with our family at least speaking to us! ty for talking to me , Patty xx have watched the video you sent.......was sent from several people..........ty........he is really good,,,,,,,,and much to think about, as well ....ty again, Patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Citsonga...........am so sorry for what you are/were going through! I know how hard it is. Yes, I have 2 great kids helping me. But, I have a husband who thinks I'm on the verge of crazy .......lol........and the rest of my family doesn't speak to me anymore......my parents are gone.... so just had a sister and her family.....neices and nehpews who I have been very close to........they don't talk to me.......or answer my emails......until I "get a grip and stop being so stupid"..........I can relate to what you are saying..........hopefully we get through this with our family at least speaking to us! ty for talking to me , Patty xx have watched the video you sent.......was sent from several people..........ty........he is really good,,,,,,,,and much to think about, as well ....ty again, Patty xx I see your posts........hope others do too.........and ty for them.......Patty, xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 ty Margee,,,,,,,am trying to keep things "under wraps"......Patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Maybe you did mention it too TF? Or co-recommended it? Idk. Not trying to grab credit. I think I just linked it instead of telling her to search for it. You brought it up. ;-) ty mcdaddy...............yes i have 2honest and jblue on myside.............guiding me...........and then the ones on the other side who oppose me......but, I need to know the truth for myself........so I will persever until i am staisfyied........ty mc........xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tothemorning Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hello Starlyte, I do hope your journey is coming along smoothly. The search for truth can be a mind bender and sometimes a lonely road. It was for me, as my only environment consisted of people who were of faith....people who did not or would not understand without harsh judgement. You have found a safe refuge here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hello Starlyte, I do hope your journey is coming along smoothly. The search for truth can be a mind bender and sometimes a lonely road. It was for me, as my only environment consisted of people who were of faith....people who did not or would not understand without harsh judgement. You have found a safe refuge here. ty tothemorning......it is going as i expected........but, have learned sooooo much...........I take the judgement as an expected response..........will keep learning and will find the answers I seek..........ty for responding to me............got this one on first try..........yeeeeehawwwwwww..........maybe i'm getting better responding...............anyway.......ty for taking your time to talk to me.........means a lot...........Patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Hello Starlyte, I do hope your journey is coming along smoothly. The search for truth can be a mind bender and sometimes a lonely road. It was for me, as my only environment consisted of people who were of faith....people who did not or would not understand without harsh judgement. You have found a safe refuge here. ty again.......if i didn't say it before............am trying so hard to respond to the right people on the right subject..........if i don't .........chalk it up to a techy dork.....anyway......ty so much.............i can feel the love from all of you..........ty so much ...........patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 ok i have gotten emails that I have listened to.......some i tried to respond to but couldnt figure out how............to those of you who sent me stuff........TYTY if I don't acknowledge you..........it's because i'm an IDIOT at this thing.......i rarely respond to the right person........and if i do .....was probably an accident....please forgive yall...........am doing my best here ..........patty xx ok someone asked if i had a question...........I do...........I believed in healing from God for so many years...........saw it in my family and with others.......how can you explain that? I believe GOD worked thru me to heal many of my family and friends......altho I have watched every video you all have sent me..I still question this one thing...........IT WAS REAL.............explain how it was NOT real.............plz....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Citsonga...........am so sorry for what you are/were going through! I know how hard it is. Yes, I have 2 great kids helping me. But, I have a husband who thinks I'm on the verge of crazy .......lol........and the rest of my family doesn't speak to me anymore......my parents are gone.... so just had a sister and her family.....neices and nehpews who I have been very close to........they don't talk to me.......or answer my emails......until I "get a grip and stop being so stupid"..........I can relate to what you are saying..........hopefully we get through this with our family at least speaking to us! ty for talking to me , Patty xx Thanks. Most of my struggles are in the past now. Things have simmered down for the most part, but thanks for your concern. I certainly hope that you and your family can get through the emotional strain of coming from perspectives that are different on at least some level. It's a shame that they're calling you "stupid," but if they're convinced that their religious views are true, then it follows that they would think it less than wise to reject it. One thing I have to wonder about is the way they won't answer you. From my perspective, it would seem that if they had the "Holy Spirit" guiding and illuminating them, then they would be able to correctly assess where you're coming from and adequately answer your concerns. Anyway, I wish you the best as you work through everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 ok someone asked if i had a question...........I do...........I believed in healing from God for so many years...........saw it in my family and with others.......how can you explain that? I believe GOD worked thru me to heal many of my family and friends......altho I have watched every video you all have sent me..I still question this one thing...........IT WAS REAL.............explain how it was NOT real.............plz....... What sort of "healing" are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Citsonga...........am so sorry for what you are/were going through! I know how hard it is. Yes, I have 2 great kids helping me. But, I have a husband who thinks I'm on the verge of crazy .......lol........and the rest of my family doesn't speak to me anymore......my parents are gone.... so just had a sister and her family.....neices and nehpews who I have been very close to........they don't talk to me.......or answer my emails......until I "get a grip and stop being so stupid"..........I can relate to what you are saying..........hopefully we get through this with our family at least speaking to us! ty for talking to me , Patty xx Thanks. Most of my struggles are in the past now. Things have simmered down for the most part, but thanks for your concern. I certainly hope that you and your family can get through the emotional strain of coming from perspectives that are different on at least some level. It's a shame that they're calling you "stupid," but if they're convinced that their religious views are true, then it follows that they would think it less than wise to reject it. One thing I have to wonder about is the way they won't answer you. From my perspective, it would seem that if they had the "Holy Spirit" guiding and illuminating them, then they would be able to correctly assess where you're coming from and adequately answer your concerns. Anyway, I wish you the best as you work through everything. Citsonga...........am so sorry for what you are/were going through! I know how hard it is. Yes, I have 2 great kids helping me. But, I have a husband who thinks I'm on the verge of crazy .......lol........and the rest of my family doesn't speak to me anymore......my parents are gone.... so just had a sister and her family.....neices and nehpews who I have been very close to........they don't talk to me.......or answer my emails......until I "get a grip and stop being so stupid"..........I can relate to what you are saying..........hopefully we get through this with our family at least speaking to us! ty for talking to me , Patty xx Thanks. Most of my struggles are in the past now. Things have simmered down for the most part, but thanks for your concern. I certainly hope that you and your family can get through the emotional strain of coming from perspectives that are different on at least some level. It's a shame that they're calling you "stupid," but if they're convinced that their religious views are true, then it follows that they would think it less than wise to reject it. One thing I have to wonder about is the way they won't answer you. From my perspective, it would seem that if they had the "Holy Spirit" guiding and illuminating them, then they would be able to correctly assess where you're coming from and adequately answer your concerns. Anyway, I wish you the best as you work through everything. ty citsonga...........yes I always believed that the Holy Spirit would enlighten us and make us more loving........don't know why "they" don't.......will take time, but I'm sure I can at least re-establish communication with them............ty for responding, Patty xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Citsonga...........am so sorry for what you are/were going through! I know how hard it is. Yes, I have 2 great kids helping me. But, I have a husband who thinks I'm on the verge of crazy .......lol........and the rest of my family doesn't speak to me anymore......my parents are gone.... so just had a sister and her family.....neices and nehpews who I have been very close to........they don't talk to me.......or answer my emails......until I "get a grip and stop being so stupid"..........I can relate to what you are saying..........hopefully we get through this with our family at least speaking to us! ty for talking to me , Patty xx have watched the video you sent.......was sent from several people..........ty........he is really good,,,,,,,,and much to think about, as well ....ty again, Patty xx I see your posts........hope others do too.........and ty for them.......Patty, xx ok you asked what kind of miracles? first my daughter..........my neice........someone named Jim who had a severe proble........prayed for him went away..........my daughter in law.......cured of Spinal defect..........and more..............how do I get past what I have seen with my own eyes? oh and a family who called me to a hospital.........the babyboy was dieing............I layed on the bed with him........i prayed for him.............his color came back.......was not on any machines........they were waiting for him to die............he came back and as far as I have heard ........living normal healthy life.....i can't get past those things without a reason to............so, if you have one.......tell me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 ok you asked what kind of miracles? first my daughter..........my neice........someone named Jim who had a severe proble........prayed for him went away..........my daughter in law.......cured of Spinal defect..........and more..............how do I get past what I have seen with my own eyes? oh and a family who called me to a hospital.........the babyboy was dieing............I layed on the bed with him........i prayed for him.............his color came back.......was not on any machines........they were waiting for him to die............he came back and as far as I have heard ........living normal healthy life.....i can't get past those things without a reason to............so, if you have one.......tell me Has everything you've prayed for come to be? What about all the faithful believers who pray for their loved ones, only to have them not be healed? I'm not a doctor and don't know the specifics of your cases, but I do know that some conditions go into remission, some conditions are treated medically, and occasionally diagnoses are initially wrong. One thing that we do know is that severed human limbs don't naturally grow back, and likewise there are no confirmed cases of God healing amputees. All the confirmed "healing" stories I've known personally are things that can and do also happen without prayer. Is an "all-powerful" God limited in what he can do? It's not my place to say exactly what happened in your experiences, and I certainly don't want to take away from your experiences. However, if you want to see a skeptic's perspective on healing, http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/ is a good site to check out. I will say upfront that the author of that site is pretty blunt in phraseology, but the basic point behind it is rather significant. Also, here's a video about prayer that you may find interesting: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 ok someone asked if i had a question...........I do...........I believed in healing from God for so many years...........saw it in my family and with others.......how can you explain that? I believe GOD worked thru me to heal many of my family and friends......altho I have watched every video you all have sent me..I still question this one thing...........IT WAS REAL.............explain how it was NOT real.............plz....... This is an important and thoughtful question. Before I begin to try to answer you, I am so very glad to hear that your family and friends have been healed, I'm sure, in many ways. I also want to commend you for what sounds like the role you played in at least some of these healings. Of course, I do not know the details, but I imagine you did things like pray for them, held their hands, encouraged them, maybe nursed them, saw to it that they received medical care and untold other things. I have no doubt whatsoever that the aid you administered played a substantial factor in the good news of your family and friends being healed. The question, though, appears to be one that goes right to the heart of your faith. That question is whether god had anything to do with these healings. I assume that at least some of your family and friends who were healed received medical treatment. We know from various studies and from our experience that modern medicine has played a huge role in helping people to recover from various illnesses and injuries. I'm sure you remember when polio was a major scare around the world. You probably remember thousands of people living in the iron lung who were stricken down by that dreaded disease. When I was a child and attending what we called grammar school (now called elementary school), we were all lined up and given a sugar cube which contained the vaccine to prevent polio. My mother was so happy that we were receving that vaccine because she lived in dread of polio and just the thought that her children would not be infected with the disease was a joyous occasion. Today, younger folks (like most on ExC) have no idea what life was like living in fear of a polio outbreak. And I am so glad they do not know what that was like. As wonderful as the vaccine has been in virtually eliminating polio, does god get credit for it? If god had anything to do with it, why did he wait until the 1950s and 1960s to begin eliminating it as a threat to people? He let it go for thousands of years of human history and allowed untold human suffering, misery, fear, and death. No, it wasn't god, it was good scientific research followed up by a population wide administration of the vaccine which allowed us to defeat polio. There are, of course, many other such stories. Did you know that early humans died of dental diseases? Science has again come to the rescue, not god who, for thousands of years, allowed people to die of dental diseases and live through unbearable pain and suffering without doing anything about it. Be very open and honest with yourself as you consider this issue. What is god doing about the pain and suffering that so many African children are enduring today because of starvation, the rampage of AIDS, diarrhea, and other diseases as well as a lack of water and political turmoil? From what I can tell, nothing, just like he did nothing about polio. I think history teaches us something of vital importance. If there is a god, he is simply not in the business of keeping us in good health and cares nothing about whether we either get injured or become infected with a disease or, if we do, whether we recover from them. If he cared (assuming some deity exists), then he certainly has a poor way of showing it and the historical record is all the evidence I need to submit to prove this point. As I have already said and want to reaffirm here, I am confident that you did play a role in the healings of your family and friends. But I am equally confident that modern medicine played a crucial role, as well. Try thinking back carefully over some of the specific examples that you have in mind. What was the course of events that lead to the healing? Did they receive medical attention or, if it was a psychological or emotional issue, did they receive psychological or emotional help (whether from a professional, you or someone else)? But even if you have in mind someone for whom the doctors gave up all hope but they recovered nonetheless, you should bear in mind that there are spontaneous remissions from such diseases like cancer. No one can really explain these spontaneous remissions, but just because they are unexplainable now (though they may be one day), that is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it was god who interceded on their behalf. Why would god cause such a remission in this person but ignore the millions of others who die horrible deaths around the world? I do not think a god who cared would ignore the suffering millions but tend only to the favored few. However, either no god or a deity who didn't care one way or the other would give us the exact picture we see of health and suffering in the world today in which those who live in the wealthier nations are more often healed while those in the poor parts of the world suffer and die needlessly. I know this is a tough issue and one that I had to consider just as you are having to do now. As I said in an earlier post to you, the truth is not always happy - it is only the truth and we are left to deal with it as well as we are capable. I wish you well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted August 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 16, 2012 ok you asked what kind of miracles? first my daughter..........my neice........someone named Jim who had a severe proble........prayed for him went away..........my daughter in law.......cured of Spinal defect..........and more..............how do I get past what I have seen with my own eyes? oh and a family who called me to a hospital.........the babyboy was dieing............I layed on the bed with him........i prayed for him.............his color came back.......was not on any machines........they were waiting for him to die............he came back and as far as I have heard ........living normal healthy life.....i can't get past those things without a reason to............so, if you have one.......tell me There is no need to stop believing in love and healing, Patty. If people were healed, there is no need to deny that. That doesn't prove that an ancient tribal god did it, but debunking that god does not debunk healing in general. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 ok you asked what kind of miracles? first my daughter..........my neice........someone named Jim who had a severe proble........prayed for him went away..........my daughter in law.......cured of Spinal defect..........and more..............how do I get past what I have seen with my own eyes? oh and a family who called me to a hospital.........the babyboy was dieing............I layed on the bed with him........i prayed for him.............his color came back.......was not on any machines........they were waiting for him to die............he came back and as far as I have heard ........living normal healthy life.....i can't get past those things without a reason to............so, if you have one.......tell me Has everything you've prayed for come to be? What about all the faithful believers who pray for their loved ones, only to have them not be healed? I'm not a doctor and don't know the specifics of your cases, but I do know that some conditions go into remission, some conditions are treated medically, and occasionally diagnoses are initially wrong. One thing that we do know is that severed human limbs don't naturally grow back, and likewise there are no confirmed cases of God healing amputees. All the confirmed "healing" stories I've known personally are things that can and do also happen without prayer. Is an "all-powerful" God limited in what he can do? It's not my place to say exactly what happened in your experiences, and I certainly don't want to take away from your experiences. However, if you want to see a skeptic's perspective on healing, http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/ is a good site to check out. I will say upfront that the author of that site is pretty blunt in phraseology, but the basic point behind it is rather significant. Also, here's a video about prayer that you may find interesting: no not everything i prayed for came to be........but, is so hard to let go.......i watched all te vidoes you sent.......and some that i thot were interesting.....ty so much...........it's very hard to except........what if one if my kids or grandkids get sick? I think i would turn to prayer ........despite the evidence against it.....I just don't know.......but, ty for responding............Patty, xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Patty ever hear of kathyn Kulman? She was a faith healer that would supposedly cure things like cancer and apparently genuinely believed that she did when she really didn't cure a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 ok someone asked if i had a question...........I do...........I believed in healing from God for so many years...........saw it in my family and with others.......how can you explain that? I believe GOD worked thru me to heal many of my family and friends......altho I have watched every video you all have sent me..I still question this one thing...........IT WAS REAL.............explain how it was NOT real.............plz....... This is an important and thoughtful question. Before I begin to try to answer you, I am so very glad to hear that your family and friends have been healed, I'm sure, in many ways. I also want to commend you for what sounds like the role you played in at least some of these healings. Of course, I do not know the details, but I imagine you did things like pray for them, held their hands, encouraged them, maybe nursed them, saw to it that they received medical care and untold other things. I have no doubt whatsoever that the aid you administered played a substantial factor in the good news of your family and friends being healed. The question, though, appears to be one that goes right to the heart of your faith. That question is whether god had anything to do with these healings. I assume that at least some of your family and friends who were healed received medical treatment. We know from various studies and from our experience that modern medicine has played a huge role in helping people to recover from various illnesses and injuries. I'm sure you remember when polio was a major scare around the world. You probably remember thousands of people living in the iron lung who were stricken down by that dreaded disease. When I was a child and attending what we called grammar school (now called elementary school), we were all lined up and given a sugar cube which contained the vaccine to prevent polio. My mother was so happy that we were receving that vaccine because she lived in dread of polio and just the thought that her children would not be infected with the disease was a joyous occasion. Today, younger folks (like most on ExC) have no idea what life was like living in fear of a polio outbreak. And I am so glad they do not know what that was like. As wonderful as the vaccine has been in virtually eliminating polio, does god get credit for it? If god had anything to do with it, why did he wait until the 1950s and 1960s to begin eliminating it as a threat to people? He let it go for thousands of years of human history and allowed untold human suffering, misery, fear, and death. No, it wasn't god, it was good scientific research followed up by a population wide administration of the vaccine which allowed us to defeat polio. There are, of course, many other such stories. Did you know that early humans died of dental diseases? Science has again come to the rescue, not god who, for thousands of years, allowed people to die of dental diseases and live through unbearable pain and suffering without doing anything about it. Be very open and honest with yourself as you consider this issue. What is god doing about the pain and suffering that so many African children are enduring today because of starvation, the rampage of AIDS, diarrhea, and other diseases as well as a lack of water and political turmoil? From what I can tell, nothing, just like he did nothing about polio. I think history teaches us something of vital importance. If there is a god, he is simply not in the business of keeping us in good health and cares nothing about whether we either get injured or become infected with a disease or, if we do, whether we recover from them. If he cared (assuming some deity exists), then he certainly has a poor way of showing it and the historical record is all the evidence I need to submit to prove this point. As I have already said and want to reaffirm here, I am confident that you did play a role in the healings of your family and friends. But I am equally confident that modern medicine played a crucial role, as well. Try thinking back carefully over some of the specific examples that you have in mind. What was the course of events that lead to the healing? Did they receive medical attention or, if it was a psychological or emotional issue, did they receive psychological or emotional help (whether from a professional, you or someone else)? But even if you have in mind someone for whom the doctors gave up all hope but they recovered nonetheless, you should bear in mind that there are spontaneous remissions from such diseases like cancer. No one can really explain these spontaneous remissions, but just because they are unexplainable now (though they may be one day), that is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it was god who interceded on their behalf. Why would god cause such a remission in this person but ignore the millions of others who die horrible deaths around the world? I do not think a god who cared would ignore the suffering millions but tend only to the favored few. However, either no god or a deity who didn't care one way or the other would give us the exact picture we see of health and suffering in the world today in which those who live in the wealthier nations are more often healed while those in the poor parts of the world suffer and die needlessly. I know this is a tough issue and one that I had to consider just as you are having to do now. As I said in an earlier post to you, the truth is not always happy - it is only the truth and we are left to deal with it as well as we are capable. I wish you well. ty Overcome Faith............yes, is hard for me.........but, I can't discount all the times my prayers didn't work.........like when my Dad died.........I was devasted! I so thought God would answer me........and save my Dad.......my mom blamed me for his death........she knew I had prayed for others who were healed........am crying now as I remember her rebuke......."why couldn't you and God save my husband..........your Father........"....it haunts me to this day...........she didn't speak to me for over a year.......and when she did...........she said, "I have nothing to say tp you, nothing in common with you, leave me the hell alone." So I did for a while..........reached out to her over and over until she finally let me in..........but, I blame myself for my father's death.......how does a daughter get over that? I can't do this anymore.........it is painful...........I am to blame for my Dad's death...........enuf said..... ty for your response tho...........Patty, xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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