Vaccine awareness 😉

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

35 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

person dies of covid and ends up at the pearly gates and is taken to meet God.

They ask God why he didn't cure them of covid.

God says: I sent you experts telling you to lockdown and isolate, I sent you pharmacies to create vaccines to protect you, I sent doctors and nurses to care for you! Instead you said the vaccines were fake, and used disinfectant as a cure!

 

I believe I posted a similar post a few months back on my fb. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

5 hours ago, mwc said:

Cheer up.  Life isn't that bad.

No MWC life isn't that bad. American politicians are. 

 

Maybe flaws was the wrong word. Limitations would have been better. Since the study only went a month into the new delta variant its way outdated. The numbers changed alot after delta hit. 

 

And the take away would be that I'm interested to see what newer studies say. I'm assuming the study you posted was geared toward 50+ because those were the ones most affected before delta. Delta is affecting younger people worse than the old strand. I thought I explained that in the first post. 

[LogicalFallacy]

23 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I believe I posted a similar post a few months back on my fb. 

 

Great minds think alike etc?  

[mwc]

57 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Maybe flaws was the wrong word. Limitations would have been better. Since the study only went a month into the new delta variant its way outdated. The numbers changed alot after delta hit. 

     The concept is still the same.  It's just a question of effectiveness.

 

57 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

And the take away would be that I'm interested to see what newer studies say. I'm assuming the study you posted was geared toward 50+ because those were the ones most affected before delta. Delta is affecting younger people worse than the old strand. I thought I explained that in the first post. 

     Okay.  So here's one:

Quote

A pair of new real-world COVID-19 vaccine studies show good protection against the Delta (B1617.2) variant, one from Scotland finding higher than 90% effectiveness in preventing death in adults and the other showing 93% efficacy against symptomatic infection in Israeli adolescents after the second dose.

     More details are in the article but the summary but I will add the following here on the adolescent study:

Quote

The investigators noted that they didn't have enough data in today's study to estimate vaccine efficacy against severe illness, hospitalization, or death because these events are rare in this age-group.

     So, no numbers in kids for these but it would appear, given this, they are low.  I see this as actually a "good" problem to have in a study like this (ie. kids aren't getting sick and/or dying at a high enough rate to be statistics).

 

     Here's another from Qatar (Nature):

Quote

 

Abstract

 

With the global expansion of the highly transmissible SARS-CoV-2 Delta (B.1.617.2) variant, we conducted a matched test-negative case–control study to assess the real-world effectiveness of COVID-19 messenger RNA vaccines against infection with Delta in Qatar’s population. BNT162b2 effectiveness against any, symptomatic or asymptomatic, Delta infection was 45.3% (95% CI, 22.0–61.6%) ≥14 d after the first vaccine dose, but only 51.9% (95% CI, 47.0–56.4%) ≥14 d after the second dose, with 50% of fully vaccinated individuals receiving their second dose before 11 May 2021. Corresponding mRNA-1273 effectiveness ≥14 d after the first or second dose was 73.7% (95% CI, 58.1–83.5%) and 73.1% (95% CI, 67.5–77.8%), respectively. Notably, effectiveness against Delta-induced severe, critical or fatal disease was 93.4% (95% CI, 85.4–97.0%) for BNT162b2 and 96.1% (95% CI, 71.6–99.5%) for mRNA-1273 ≥ 14 d after the second dose. Our findings show robust effectiveness for both BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 in preventing Delta hospitalization and death in Qatar’s population, despite lower effectiveness in preventing infection, particularly for the BNT162b2 vaccine.

 

 

     Our vaccines appear to be showing themselves effective across the board.  The caveat is that people must be fully vaccinated otherwise they face much lower levels of protection.

 

          mwc

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

5 hours ago, mwc said:

Okay.  So here's one:

 

That's a pretty good one. It amazes me how different some of these studies are on the stats. Even when they are both from credible sources. But again i like looking at the studies published in other countries. It always seems that the numbers get skewed one way or another in the states. They will quote bits of studies and bump the numbers up or down depending on the desired effect. It's really no wonder people are afraid of vaccines with all the BS floating around supposedly from "new research". From legitimate articles I've read the vaccine benefits far out weigh the risks. I was a lot more comfortable after newer findings started to come to light that were more realistic. 

 

Back when they were claiming 99% effectiveness I was thinking ....... yeah that's BS.  

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

31 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

But again i like looking at the studies published in other countries. It always seems that the numbers get skewed one way or another in the states.

On this note did you see the drastic difference in effectiveness between the article you posted from Minnesota and the study done in Qatar? Very different numbers. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about when it comes to anything posted in the states. Overall the numbers are still good. They are between 50 and 80 percent effective. Which is enough for me to say yeah..... it's better than nothing. But numbers from articles referencing various studies are all in the 90s. Which fits Joe Bidens agenda. 

 

I was in Chicago a couple months ago and saw a commercial that said 99 percent of all new infections were unvaccinated people. Which is a lie. But it promotes the agenda of those in power in the area. That's just how corrupt politics are here. 

[mwc]

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

On this note did you see the drastic difference in effectiveness between the article you posted from Minnesota and the study done in Qatar? Very different numbers. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about when it comes to anything posted in the states. Overall the numbers are still good. They are between 50 and 80 percent effective. Which is enough for me to say yeah..... it's better than nothing. But numbers from articles referencing various studies are all in the 90s. Which fits Joe Bidens agenda. 

     Did you also notice that they had different parameters which may well cause a change in the outcome?  The first article was about two narrower studies while the one in Qatar appears to be much more broad.  This is the same thing as the one I posted earlier that wasn't flawed but had parameters of a certain age group and so on.  The numbers will reflect all this.

 

     Also, Joe Biden's agenda should be considered our agenda which is to say the entire world's agenda and that is to get everyone vaccinated with the most effective vaccines available.  That was the point of developing them.

 

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I was in Chicago a couple months ago and saw a commercial that said 99 percent of all new infections were unvaccinated people. Which is a lie. But it promotes the agenda of those in power in the area. That's just how corrupt politics are here. 

     Dunno about Chicago but out my way we saw things like that.  A quick search found me this: "L.A. County sees new significant rise in COVID-19 cases, 99% involved the unvaccinated" so maybe it happened in Chicago too?

 

          mwc

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

5 hours ago, mwc said:

     Did you also notice that they had different parameters which may well cause a change in the outcome?  The first article was about two narrower studies while the one in Qatar appears to be much more broad.  This is the same thing as the one I posted earlier that wasn't flawed but had parameters of a certain age group and so on.  The numbers will reflect all this.

 

     Also, Joe Biden's agenda should be considered our agenda which is to say the entire world's agenda and that is to get everyone vaccinated with the most effective vaccines available.  That was the point of developing them.

 

     Dunno about Chicago but out my way we saw things like that.  A quick search found me this: "L.A. County sees new significant rise in COVID-19 cases, 99% involved the unvaccinated" so maybe it happened in Chicago too?

 

          mwc

 

Ahhhh come on MWC it's lies. Both sides are lying like hell. All the legitimate studies and peer reviewed articles are saying 30-40% of new covid positive cases are in vaccinated people. It doesn't surprise me you saw that in LA. It is in the same boat as Chicago. Completely ran by the democrats. Now I'm not saying the Republicans are any better. The last article I saw skewed like that was for the right. They sited the study from isreal saying that immunity in formerly infected people was stronger than immunity from the vaccine. Which is true. That is what the study found. But then it went on to say presumably still referencing the study. That people who were getting vaccinated and then got infected with covid were more likely to have severe symptoms. Which was not true and not in the study. 

 

From what I've seen in the isreali study and the Qatar study that you posted is that the truth is that the vaccine is 50-80 percent effective. But that in severe cases the vaccine is probably 80-90 percent effective at saving lives those infected after vaccination. 

 

But the left aren't going to get the support they need with numbers like that being thrown around. Vaccine keeps 50-80 percent of people from having severe symptoms, but while they are infected they can still transmit the virus doesn't sound like mandate worthy headlines. Neither does what @Joshpantera pointed out. How the virus is inbeded in the animal population and they can infect us just as easily as we can infect each other.  So instead we see numbers like what you just mentioned. And what I saw in Chicago.

 

I'm sorry the vaccine isn't gonna work that well where democrats rule and work a completely different way in studies from other countries and areas. It is obvious manipulation. If you don't see that, you trust our govt way to much. 

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

14 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Ahhhh come on MWC it's lies. Both sides are lying like hell. All the legitimate studies and peer reviewed articles are saying 30-40% of new covid positive cases are in vaccinated people. It doesn't surprise me you saw that in LA. It is in the same boat as Chicago. Completely ran by the democrats. Now I'm not saying the Republicans are any better. The last article I saw skewed like that was for the right. They sited the study from isreal saying that immunity in formerly infected people was stronger than immunity from the vaccine. Which is true. That is what the study found. But then it went on to say presumably still referencing the study. That people who were getting vaccinated and then got infected with covid were more likely to have severe symptoms. Which was not true and not in the study. 

 

From what I've seen in the isreali study and the Qatar study that you posted is that the truth is that the vaccine is 50-80 percent effective. But that in severe cases the vaccine is probably 80-90 percent effective at saving lives those infected after vaccination. 

 

But the left aren't going to get the support they need with numbers like that being thrown around. Vaccine keeps 50-80 percent of people from having severe symptoms, but while they are infected they can still transmit the virus doesn't sound like mandate worthy headlines. Neither does what @Joshpantera pointed out. How the virus is inbeded in the animal population and they can infect us just as easily as we can infect each other.  So instead we see numbers like what you just mentioned. And what I saw in Chicago.

 

I'm sorry the vaccine isn't gonna work that well where democrats rule and work a completely different way in studies from other countries and areas. It is obvious manipulation. If you don't see that, you trust our govt way to much. 

 

 

 

Again just to add to this a little bit. When I saw that in Chicago and realized what was going on, it made so much more sense for the reason so many people on the left were calling unvaccinated people murderers and why so many people on the right completely refuse to consider taking it. Both sides seem to be about ready to go to war with each other over it. And it is all because of the manipulation. Bottom line is they need to tell the truth with real numbers and let people make their own decisions. I think if people were seeing the real numbers they would be more apt to take it. But thats me making some assumptions hoping that people would think logically about it. 

[mwc]

41 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Ahhhh come on MWC it's lies. Both sides are lying like hell. All the legitimate studies and peer reviewed articles are saying 30-40% of new covid positive cases are in vaccinated people. It doesn't surprise me you saw that in LA. It is in the same boat as Chicago. Completely ran by the democrats. Now I'm not saying the Republicans are any better. The last article I saw skewed like that was for the right. They sited the study from isreal saying that immunity in formerly infected people was stronger than immunity from the vaccine. Which is true. That is what the study found. But then it went on to say presumably still referencing the study. That people who were getting vaccinated and then got infected with covid were more likely to have severe symptoms. Which was not true and not in the study. 

     So it's a partisan trick?  I'm not going to follow you down this rabbit trail.  It doesn't end well.

 

41 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

From what I've seen in the isreali study and the Qatar study that you posted is that the truth is that the vaccine is 50-80 percent effective. But that in severe cases the vaccine is probably 80-90 percent effective at saving lives those infected after vaccination. 

 

But the left aren't going to get the support they need with numbers like that being thrown around. Vaccine keeps 50-80 percent of people from having severe symptoms, but while they are infected they can still transmit the virus doesn't sound like mandate worthy headlines. Neither does what @Joshpantera pointed out. How the virus is inbeded in the animal population and they can infect us just as easily as we can infect each other.  So instead we see numbers like what you just mentioned. And what I saw in Chicago.

     Yeah, I'm not really seeing lots of interspecies transmission.  And, if it starts to happen, guess what?  Vaccines.  We can protect ourselves.

 

41 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

I'm sorry the vaccine isn't gonna work that well where democrats rule and work a completely different way in studies from other countries and areas. It is obvious manipulation. If you don't see that, you trust our govt way to much. 

     You read too much politics into this issue.  It's in the best interest of everyone not just one political party.  I suppose cutting off our collective noses to spite our faces is a way to go too.

 

          mwc

 

[mwc]

39 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Again just to add to this a little bit. When I saw that in Chicago and realized what was going on, it made so much more sense for the reason so many people on the left were calling unvaccinated people murderers and why so many people on the right completely refuse to consider taking it. Both sides seem to be about ready to go to war with each other over it. And it is all because of the manipulation. Bottom line is they need to tell the truth with real numbers and let people make their own decisions. I think if people were seeing the real numbers they would be more apt to take it. But thats me making some assumptions hoping that people would think logically about it. 

     There's the graph for measles and its vaccine.  The vaccine was effective but the rates didn't drop overnight.  As you can see there were spikes and it was mandated for children to get into school.  We essentially wiped it out in the States until, after this graph, we saw an increase again because people started opting back out of getting kids vaxxed.  That's just how these things work.  It's not one and done.  It's a long game that needs to be maintained but these things can work.  People need to stop thinking in political terms and just look at this graph and how no measles is just a good thing for everyone.

 

          mwc

 

[LogicalFallacy]

"All the legitimate studies and peer reviewed articles are saying 30-40% of new covid positive cases are in vaccinated people. It doesn't surprise me you saw that in LA. "

 

If 100% of people are vaccinated and the virus has a 5% breakthrough rate then 100% of people who get infected will have had the vaccine.

 

Think about this... of course cases are going to be in vaccinated people, because more people than not are vaccinated.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

6 hours ago, mwc said:

Yeah, I'm not really seeing lots of interspecies transmission.  And, if it starts to happen, guess what?  Vaccines.  We can protect ourselves.

Then It should be the same with humans. If they want to be protected they can be vaccinated.  Once again. Their body. Their choice. I can't say my because I chose to take the vaccine. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

16 hours ago, mwc said:

So it's a partisan trick?  I'm not going to follow you down this rabbit trail.  It doesn't end well.

That's fine. Follow your masters. Yes I absolutely think partisan politics is playing a huge role in what we see in the media. 

 

16 hours ago, mwc said:

You read too much politics into this issue.  It's in the best interest of everyone not just one political party.  I suppose cutting off our collective noses to spite our faces is a way to go too.

 

The vaccine isn't good enough to get rid of it like the measles vaccine is. And until it is, I can't support forcing it on people. Like the flu, this will be something we'll be dealing with 100 years from now.

 

Fun fact. I looked up some history on the flu. I didn't realise the original strand in 1918 was H1N1. Hell I thought that was something new back in the 90s. 

[mwc]

1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

That's fine. Follow your masters. Yes I absolutely think partisan politics is playing a huge role in what we see in the media. 

     Am I supposed to take you seriously when you say things like this?  All I hear is that I'm deceived by Satan.

 

1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

 

The vaccine isn't good enough to get rid of it like the measles vaccine is. And until it is, I can't support forcing it on people. Like the flu, this will be something we'll be dealing with 100 years from now.

     We may well be dealing with it for a long time to come.  It took decades to tackle the measles with a "good enough" vaccine.  We may as well just throw up our hands and be quitters like you propose.  It's clearly better than making any in-roads (which the data, any and all data across the board, shows does happen when using vaccines and mores when masking).

 

1 hour ago, DarkBishop said:

Fun fact. I looked up some history on the flu. I didn't realise the original strand in 1918 was H1N1. Hell I thought that was something new back in the 90s. 

     And?  Perhaps I missed the part where they developed an H1N1 vaccine, vaxxed everyone, failed and here we are today?  Or did they do mostly nothing like you propose, develop no natural immunity, and so here we are today with your fun fact?

 

          mwc

 

[LogicalFallacy]

It should also be noted that the flu mutates faster than covid does. This makes it harder for vaccines to be effective against it. Lets not compare apples with oranges, then complain that the apple isn't a citrus fruit.

 

For a comparison this is a great paper SARS-CoV-2 and influenza: a comparative overview and treatment implications | Boletín Médico del Hospital Infantil de México (bmhim.com)

 

And this article How Viruses Mutate and Create New Variants | Tufts Now

 

From what I understand from the second article, because Covid mutates much slower there is the possibility that once everyone has been vaccinated or infected, and thus has immunity towards it, then it may become much less of a threat. The reason the flu is so effective is that say I get infected by a strain. However, this doesn't necessarily give me any decent immunity because next year i can get infected by an entirely new strain. With covid however, there is strong evidence that if you get infected this protects you against the same strain, and other strains to varying degrees.

 

So we really are dealing with different beasts. Covid works by being more contagious and much more lethal than the flu, the flu works by having rapid mutation which means immunity cannot build against it.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

4 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

So we really are dealing with different beasts. Covid works by being more contagious and much more lethal than the flu, the flu works by having rapid mutation which means immunity cannot build against it.

 

I dont think this is a true statement. When the flu first hit under the name of the Spanish influenza it killed way more people by comparison than covid has. But we have 100+ years of built up immunity now. Those most susceptible died and those weak genes along with them. 

 

That's what we are seeing now. But we have much better medical treatments now. Along with the ability to make the vaccines like we have, people have better chances. But I think that those getting breakthrough infections and dying were probably doomed either way. I wonder if they have found genetic links in those that have passed away that made them more susceptible?  I'm sure they are atleast looking into it. If they knew for sure they could let those people know to take extra caution when in public. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

6 hours ago, mwc said:

     Am I supposed to take you seriously when you say things like this?  All I hear is that I'm deceived by Satan.

 

     We may well be dealing with it for a long time to come.  It took decades to tackle the measles with a "good enough" vaccine.  We may as well just throw up our hands and be quitters like you propose.  It's clearly better than making any in-roads (which the data, any and all data across the board, shows does happen when using vaccines and mores when masking).

 

     And?  Perhaps I missed the part where they developed an H1N1 vaccine, vaxxed everyone, failed and here we are today?  Or did they do mostly nothing like you propose, develop no natural immunity, and so here we are today with your fun fact?

 

          mwc

 

 

MWC ,

 

Its hard for me to understand how so many people don't see the obviois manipulation by our politicians. especially people that came out of manipulative religions like we did. But to each their own. I admire your ability to trust such a corrupt government. 

 

But I really dont see why your getting so defensive. I have not said we need to throw our hands up and do nothing. I'm an American that doesn't believe in forcing people to take a vaccine that may or may not work for them. I don't believe in taking people's right to choose away from them. 

 

Remember I've taken the vaccine. I'm not against the vaccine...... anymore. I plan on taking the booster in a few months. But there has been cause for concern so I don't blame people for wanting to take their chances without it. That's it. It's America. The land of the free. Let people decide for themselves. 

[LogicalFallacy]

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I dont think this is a true statement. When the flu first hit under the name of the Spanish influenza it killed way more people by comparison than covid has. But we have 100+ years of built up immunity now. Those most susceptible died and those weak genes along with them. 

 

The 1918 flu was a new and particularly lethal flu variant. A combination of soldiers returning from WW1, poor health conditions of the population due to the war, and the fact that the virus would often result in an increased immune response which meant that those with the healthiest immune system often succumbed to the virus (the younger men and women for instance) all contributed to the death rate. And of course the fact that they simply didn't have the medical advances we have now that have saved so many with covid also contributed. And no worldwide response to attempt to control it such as lockdowns etc.

 

I think if we put covid back in 1918 it probably would have killed more people. Of course to prove this is impossible, its simply my opinion based on comparing information I've read.

 

I'll also point out that it's not so much that we've built up immunity to the 1918 flu, but that it mutated to become less lethal, thus allowing the infected to live longer and thereby increased the viruses chances of reproducing. Evolutionary warfare at its finest if I might say so.

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

12 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

The 1918 flu was a new and particularly lethal flu variant. A combination of soldiers returning from WW1, poor health conditions of the population due to the war, and the fact that the virus would often result in an increased immune response which meant that those with the healthiest immune system often succumbed to the virus (the younger men and women for instance) all contributed to the death rate. And of course the fact that they simply didn't have the medical advances we have now that have saved so many with covid also contributed. And no worldwide response to attempt to control it such as lockdowns etc.

 

I think if we put covid back in 1918 it probably would have killed more people. Of course to prove this is impossible, its simply my opinion based on comparing information I've read.

 

I'll also point out that it's not so much that we've built up immunity to the 1918 flu, but that it mutated to become less lethal, thus allowing the infected to live longer and thereby increased the viruses chances of reproducing. Evolutionary warfare at its finest if I might say so.

 

 

I suppose it was the first time H1N1 came around in recorded history that we know of. It was a Corona virus. It came from animals. Now it's called the avian flu. I'm sure Spanish influenza is offensive now a days lol. 

 

But I think it's better than a mere opinion. We have advanced so much over the past 100 years. There is no doubt that the death toll would have been less if H1N1 hit in today's time. Infact H1N1 has hit in our lifetime and it was kept under control. I still theorize that the past 100 years of exposure to variants of the virus aided in keeping it down. Back then it infected an estimated 500 million people. A third of the earth's population at the time, with a death toll of 50 million. Basically 1 in 10 people died that were infected by it. 

 

By comparison the death toll of covid is much less. Most people were able to recover at home. Without any form of treatment. This virus has been far less deadly even without treatment than in 1918. But I'm sure if it had hit in 1918 the death toll may have been greater by comparison because a lot of people that survived severe symptoms did so with the help of modern medicine. Oxygen, ventilators, etc. 

 

But we can speculate and be shade tree epidemiologists all day long. In the end I think we have done a pretty good job with this pandemic. Considering the world is atleast 5 times more populated and the death toll is less than 1 percent of the population. That's a win in my book. Vaccinations or not. 

[LogicalFallacy]

3 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

But we can speculate and be shade tree epidemiologists all day long. In the end I think we have done a pretty good job with this pandemic. Considering the world is atleast 5 times more populated and the death toll is less than 1 percent of the population. That's a win in my book. Vaccinations or not. 

 

QFT

[mwc]

On 11/5/2021 at 5:26 PM, DarkBishop said:

 

MWC ,

 

Its hard for me to understand how so many people don't see the obviois manipulation by our politicians. especially people that came out of manipulative religions like we did. But to each their own. I admire your ability to trust such a corrupt government. 

     It's a distraction to me here.  The studies, the numbers, I've given show the story that vaccines work and are needed.  If you want to point at something else then it should be for a reason.  So far, even saying we're being manipulated, hasn't negated my point so I feel I can safely ignore it.  So, again, a distraction.

 

On 11/5/2021 at 5:26 PM, DarkBishop said:

But I really dont see why your getting so defensive. I have not said we need to throw our hands up and do nothing. I'm an American that doesn't believe in forcing people to take a vaccine that may or may not work for them. I don't believe in taking people's right to choose away from them. 

     The research shows that vaccines do work.  And they pretty much work across the board.  You're just confusing herd immunity with not working.  We've not achieved herd immunity because not enough folks have taken the vaccine.  So breakthrough cases are common in our, current, less than ideal circumstance.

 

On 11/5/2021 at 5:26 PM, DarkBishop said:

Remember I've taken the vaccine. I'm not against the vaccine...... anymore. I plan on taking the booster in a few months. But there has been cause for concern so I don't blame people for wanting to take their chances without it. That's it. It's America. The land of the free. Let people decide for themselves. 

     If we all work towards a common goal we might actually achieve something.  However, if we all just sort of go our separate ways we're most certainly going to fail.  You know, the whole thing about hanging alone or hanging together?  "We must all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."  A pretty famous quote for just not doing our own shit as a way to succeed against an enemy.  We have a long history of just not using the nebulous concept of freedom as a way of blowing off our collective obligations.  There's even the more recent "Freedom isn't free" version.  Sometimes people have do actually do things.

 

          mwc

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

30 minutes ago, mwc said:

     It's a distraction to me here.  The studies, the numbers, I've given show the story that vaccines work and are needed.  If you want to point at something else then it should be for a reason.  So far, even saying we're being manipulated, hasn't negated my point so I feel I can safely ignore it.  So, again, a distraction.

 

     The research shows that vaccines do work.  And they pretty much work across the board.  You're just confusing herd immunity with not working.  We've not achieved herd immunity because not enough folks have taken the vaccine.  So breakthrough cases are common in our, current, less than ideal circumstance.

 

     If we all work towards a common goal we might actually achieve something.  However, if we all just sort of go our separate ways we're most certainly going to fail.  You know, the whole thing about hanging alone or hanging together?  "We must all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."  A pretty famous quote for just not doing our own shit as a way to succeed against an enemy.  We have a long history of just not using the nebulous concept of freedom as a way of blowing off our collective obligations.  There's even the more recent "Freedom isn't free" version.  Sometimes people have do actually do things.

 

          mwc

 

 

Ok maybe you can call me desensitized to death or whatever. Thats not really the  case. It's just that I have different priorities. Probably from being a southern raised man who was also sworn to protect the constitution of the untied states of America.

 

I've actually had a close friend die of covid. It sucked, we cried, we loved her. But we knew our friend and she did not want the vaccine. I respect that. She made a choice and it was her right to do so. Especially as controversial as it first was. With all the various fears that people had based on actual side effects. But thats not enough for me to support the govt forcing people to put something, In their bodies, if they don't want it. I'm sorry. Rights are more important to me than people dying.  Do I think not wanting a vaccine is kinda dumb at this point..... sure. But I dont support giving up freedoms. 

 

That's the way I am about all our rights. We've discussed my stance on other rights. That you don't agree with. Like gun control. No need to start it again. We disagree and that's fine. I'm not gonna change your mind and you won't change mine. We are just wired different. It's one of the beautiful things about life. Our differences. 

 

The bantering back and forth is fun tho aye ‽

 

I feel like only losing 5.4 million in a pandemic with a population of close to 7 billion is pretty good. I've had it, and I've been vaccinated, I'm gonna do me. And everybody else can do them. Just staying in my lane. 

[freshstart]

6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I feel like only losing 5.4 million in a pandemic with a population of close to 7 billion is pretty good. I've had it, and I've been vaccinated, I'm gonna do me. And everybody else can do them. Just staying in my lane. 

I don't think its quite that simple.  During the height of pandemic, the hospital unit I work on was overwhelmed, so many nurses and aids got sick that they shut the unit down for weeks and when it reopened, since many of the staff had already had covid, it was decided we would convert to a covid unit (this was before vaccines and rapid tests were available).  We had patients in the halls, patients doubling up in private rooms which was bad enough and  exhausting- but worst of all - we had people who could not get access to care in a timely manner for a heart attack or a broken arm or cancer treatments, the list is endless.  Imagine being told if you develop a severe condition that it is going to have to wait because local hospitals are overwhelmed with covid.  (This happened to me personally).  And now (for other reasons I won't get into here) we have a critical nursing shortage that has worsened even as the covid numbers have eased.  I dread the possibility of another wave of unvaccinated  patients hospitalized with covid.  In the most recent wave, one of the local hospitals was dealing with multiple pregnant (unvaccinated) women delivering their babies while intubated and in a medical coma.  These stories are common in the medical community.

I also work at a nursing home where multiple floors were converted to covid units.  Staff were dropping like flies and my job was to train people who had no clinical experience (people in finance, for example) to become clinical support personnel.  Again, not fun and not something I want to go through again. 

Now . . .one could make the argument that there are many people who make poor choices and overwhelm the health care system with avoidable admissions.  That would be absolutely true.  But these folks don't overwhelm the system all at once like a pandemic does.  Yes, perhaps vaccinated folks are all taking some unknown risk in getting the vaccine.  But there is known risk in getting the disease.  The risk is not just personal.  It has a domino effect on many, many others.   

 

Ok, I will tip toe away from my soapbox now. 

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

8 hours ago, freshstart said:

I don't think its quite that simple.  During the height of pandemic, the hospital unit I work on was overwhelmed, so many nurses and aids got sick that they shut the unit down for weeks and when it reopened, since many of the staff had already had covid, it was decided we would convert to a covid unit (this was before vaccines and rapid tests were available).  We had patients in the halls, patients doubling up in private rooms which was bad enough and  exhausting- but worst of all - we had people who could not get access to care in a timely manner for a heart attack or a broken arm or cancer treatments, the list is endless.  Imagine being told if you develop a severe condition that it is going to have to wait because local hospitals are overwhelmed with covid.  (This happened to me personally).  And now (for other reasons I won't get into here) we have a critical nursing shortage that has worsened even as the covid numbers have eased.  I dread the possibility of another wave of unvaccinated  patients hospitalized with covid.  In the most recent wave, one of the local hospitals was dealing with multiple pregnant (unvaccinated) women delivering their babies while intubated and in a medical coma.  These stories are common in the medical community.

I also work at a nursing home where multiple floors were converted to covid units.  Staff were dropping like flies and my job was to train people who had no clinical experience (people in finance, for example) to become clinical support personnel.  Again, not fun and not something I want to go through again. 

Now . . .one could make the argument that there are many people who make poor choices and overwhelm the health care system with avoidable admissions.  That would be absolutely true.  But these folks don't overwhelm the system all at once like a pandemic does.  Yes, perhaps vaccinated folks are all taking some unknown risk in getting the vaccine.  But there is known risk in getting the disease.  The risk is not just personal.  It has a domino effect on many, many others.   

 

Ok, I will tip toe away from my soapbox now. 

 

 

 

**steps up to soap box**

 

First of all I'd like to thank you for everything you did through the pandemic. Yours and other Frontline workers will probably never get the respect you truly deserve for everything you did and all the lives you helped save. It sucks yall all had to go through that shit and honestly you guys are the heroes of the pandemic.

 

We weren't prepared for a pandemic when it happened. No one ever is. They just don't happen at a frequency that we stay prepared. Kinda like a 100 year storm. We didn't know how to treat it. We didn't have room. It got bad.

 

But now two years later most people have had some form of it. Probably a ton of people that were Asymptomatic that didn't even know they had it. The hospitalizations and death were trending down even before the vaccine. It will naturally taper down just like in 1918 in the last pandemic. It tapered down without a vaccine. It's just what happens. It sweeps through,  kills the weakest and most vulnerable, the stronger survive, people build up immunity. It never goes away. We still have a mutation of Spanish influenza today. 100 years from now we will still have a mutation of sars-cov-2 floating around, making people lose there taste, smell, and even killing some. There are two things that would make me support a mandate. 

 

1. If the vaccine was proven to be 99 percent effective at stopping the virus from spreading, like the fake commercials in LA and Chicago.

 

(But it's not, everywhere else the numbers are much lower. Still good. But lower. People are still dying, even the vaccinated. And even tho there is vaccine resistance. 70 percent of the country is still vaccinated. That's good. Yall should be happy with that. That's a lot better than 100 years ago when zero people were vaccinated and they pulled through it. And repopulated the earth 5 fold)

 

could you imagine how bad the front line workers had it 100 years ago with one in every ten people dying? If you could hear some of their stories ya might think..... well this wasn't that bad. They were fighting a much worse pandemic with far less people, hospitals, rooms, medicine, everything. Far less everything. The dead were being thrown on wagons and carried away from their homes. Piled up with other dead. Now that was bad. Epically bad.

 

2. If the death toll were higher. 

 

If it were as bad as the 1918 flu. And 10 percent of the infected population were dying and we could possibly save 80-90 percent of that group from dying, and give 50-80 percent of all the other infected a better shot at not having severe symptoms. That'd probably be enough. 

 

But with a death rate of less than 1 percent of the population. That's just not enough death for me to support taking away peoples freedom to not have a needle put in their arm and be injected against their will. It's just not. Personal rights are paramount to me. It would take a massive amount of people dying for me to support taking away someone's rights. Nope just can't do it. 

 

Now if ya wanna make em wear masks again, and get tested weekly.... thats cool. Why haven't we brought that up yet? That's the other option that's being talked about. I can support that. Just not making people get jabbed. 

 

That's me. And yes. It's that simple. That's just who I am. 

 

We'll see how it all pans out. Yall wanna force people to give up their rights. The other half of the country is against it. It does not affect me personally. I took the vaccine and so have my kids, and significant other. So Yall can fight that shit out. It's probably about to be a shit storm if they try to mandate everyone. 

 

I'll be the guy minding my own damn business, eating my popcorn, and watching the show. 

 

I've rambled enough. **steps down from soap box** 

 

Next lol