Sunday Dispatch

[RipVanWinkle]

"The query: "At Auschwitz, tell me, where was God?

 

And the answer: "Where was man?” Ironhorse

 

 

What a profound comment. Now I understand. God was waiting and watching with delight as his former "chosen people" were being annihilated by the millions. This was His idea of fun.

 

Where was man?  Well, there were the Nazi, Christian soldiers torturing and killing Jewish man, woman , child and fetus. There were those Nazis and their  co-partners doing nothing to stop the slaughter. And then there was the rest of mankind who didn't know what the Nazis were dong to the Jews. But what has this got to do with God's responsibility when he could have easily prevented it, pray tell?

Ironhorse, You did not quote a profound comment but a very stupid one. 

[Ravenstar]

IH… Haven't you ever read Viktor Frankl's, "Man's Search for Meaning"?

 

 

I thought everyone had.   

[xtify]

Ironhorse,

 

What is your answer to the first question? If you believe the bible, then god was a spectator. Having all the power in the universe to stop the torture, yet he instead chose to record the events so he could hand out even more torture in the end.

 

He watched the people - his people - be tortured, crying out for his help. Many of them died without losing faith in his mercy. Yet he did nothing to stop the evil. He had his minions watch with tied hands, recording everything, so that one day, when everyone's dead, he could give out more torture sentences. What a good guy! Worshipping him must make you feel so special!

 

Where was man? Well atleast some of them were organizing a resistance.

[ironhorse]

Sunday Dispatch.675

The query: "At Auschwitz, tell me, where was God?"

And the answer: "Where was man?”

~William Styron, Sophie’s Choice

 

 

When I read that quote it makes me think about the evil going on

in the world today. Why are so many of these atrocities not reported by mainstream media?

Why do so many nations turn a blind eye?

 

Yeah, I could point my finger at God and curse and blame it all on God, but that's not what I read in that quote.

It causes me to look inward and ask myself... What have I done to help alleviate suffering.

 

Need examples: Go to Google Images and search genocide in Rwanda...genocide in Sudan...genocide in Iraq. 

[mymistake]

Yeah, I could point my finger at God and curse and blame it all on God, but that's not what I read in that quote.

 

 

We don't blame God, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.  That is because we think they are all imaginary.  But if you thought God was real and sat there invisible the whole time watching the whole thing . . . without ever doing anything about it . . . that is wrong.

[midniterider]

 

Yeah, I could point my finger at God and curse and blame it all on God, but that's not what I read in that quote.

 

 

We don't blame God, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.  That is because we think they are all imaginary.  But if you thought God was real and sat there invisible the whole time watching the whole thing . . . without ever doing anything about it . . . that is wrong.

 

 

Time for IH to cue the, "Do you want God to micromanage our lives? Or allow free will..."

[midniterider]

Yeah, I could point my finger at God and curse and blame it all on God, but that's not what Christians do. They always give God a free ride. "God did something? Well praise his name! God didnt do anything? Well praise him name!"

[mymistake]

 

 

Yeah, I could point my finger at God and curse and blame it all on God, but that's not what I read in that quote.

 

 

We don't blame God, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.  That is because we think they are all imaginary.  But if you thought God was real and sat there invisible the whole time watching the whole thing . . . without ever doing anything about it . . . that is wrong.

 

 

Time for IH to cue the, "Do you want God to micromanage our lives? Or allow free will..."

 

 

Oh yes, free will.  Let's not forget about free will.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Sunday Dispatch.675

 

The query: "At Auschwitz, tell me, where was God?"

 

And the answer: "Where was man?”

 

~William Styron, Sophie’s Choice

 

 

When I read that quote it makes me think about the evil going on

in the world today. Why are so many of these atrocities not reported by mainstream media?

Why do so many nations turn a blind eye?

 

Yeah, I could point my finger at God and curse and blame it all on God, but that's not what I read in that quote.

It causes me to look inward and ask myself... What have I done to help alleviate suffering.

 

Need examples: Go to Google Images and search genocide in Rwanda...genocide in Sudan...genocide in Iraq. 

so, god is only real when the good stuff happens.  But when evil happens, it's not god, it's man?  

 

What a pathetic creature god must be if he can only take glory from man's accomplishments but will take no blame for his own ineptitude.

[DoubtingNate]

It causes me to look inward and ask myself... What have I done to help alleviate suffering.

 

 

Better question: What has God done?  As a human race we have actually done much more.. it is called medicine, science, the arts, democracy.. that sort of thing.  

[moanareina]

Sunday Dispatch.675

 

It causes me to look inward and ask myself... What have I done to help alleviate suffering.

 

Need examples: Go to Google Images and search genocide in Rwanda...genocide in Sudan...genocide in Iraq. 

 

And the guilt trip is not helping this world to get any better. It only helps the one who is on it to feel miserable...and make others feel miserable too...and some do pretty stupid things because of that. 

[pratt]

Sunday Dispatch.675

The query: "At Auschwitz, tell me, where was God?"

And the answer: "Where was man?”

~William Styron, Sophie’s Choice

 

 

 

wanna know where are they at Auschwitz?

 

jesus : "Our father who art in heaven"

hilter: "put man into gaz chamber"

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Sunday Dispatch.675

 

The query: "At Auschwitz, tell me, where was God?"

 

And the answer: "Where was man?”

 

~William Styron, Sophie’s Choice

 

 

When I read that quote it makes me think about the evil going on

in the world today. Why are so many of these atrocities not reported by mainstream media?

Why do so many nations turn a blind eye?

 

Yeah, I could point my finger at God and curse and blame it all on God, but that's not what I read in that quote.

It causes me to look inward and ask myself... What have I done to help alleviate suffering.

 

Need examples: Go to Google Images and search genocide in Rwanda...genocide in Sudan...genocide in Iraq. 

 

As I recall, it was humans that ended Hitler's reign of terror and that brought down the Nazi Party. Why is it that humans do all the work, but your omniscient, omnipotent god couldn't be bothered to do anything?

[Thackerie]

 

Sunday Dispatch.675

 

 

It causes me to look inward and ask myself... What have I done to help alleviate suffering.

This is so telling... Your subconscious is admitting your underlying humanistic view of reality. Deep inside, you know God is not real. Humanity is real. Like every other God-believer, your God is a projection of your human psyche trying to work out the complexities of human existence, human nature, and human morality. And that's really why you're here IH, even if you consciously won't admit it.

 

 

Excellent insight! I've reached my quota of positive votes for the day, but I owe you one.

 

IH, like many other fundigelicals, lacks self-awareness.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Ironhorse, I know you typically either ignore or dodge the questions I pose to you, but I really want you to answer these, if you would.

 

Have you ever been to Auschwitz? 

 

Have you ever seen the crematoria up close?  Or been inside the gas chamber? 

 

Have you walked under the archway that says "ARBEIT MACHT FREI"?  Or through the gate of doom at Auschwitz II (Birkenau)?  Have you seen the inside of a typical barrack? 

 

Have you ever watched as a crowd of Jewish school children learned of the fates of many of their own relatives while looking at the barbed-wire?

 

Have you ever seen the inside of the hospital ward in Auschwitz, where painful medical experiments were conducted on human beings as though they were lab rats?  Have you ever seen the main gallows, or the death wall, where innocent people were shot in cold blood?

 

Have you seen the empty cannisters of Zyklon B on display?  Or the prayer cloths?  Or the piles of shoes, eyeglasses, suitcases, teeth--each of which represents the life stolen from a real, breathing, fearful human being? 

 

Has your heart ever shattered as your eye fell upon a shoe that would have fit your own child, realizing that some other father, just like yourself, bought that shoe for his child, just as you had so often done?

 

I have seen and done all of these things and I can and will answer your "query".

 

"In Auschwitz, where was god?"  god was not in Auschwitz.  god has never been anywhere near Auschwitz. 

 

"Where was man?"  Man was in Auschwitz.  Man created Auschwitz and Man destroyed in Auschwitz.  Ultimately, Man liberated Auschwitz.  Yes, Man has incredible potential, both for evil and for good. 

 

But god, simply watches and allows the sun to shine upon both the righteous and the wicked.

 

Worship him if you will; but until he proves himself worthy of it, I will not.

[RipVanWinkle]

He won't answer your questions anymore than he will read the scriptures objectively, rather than as a believer. But he pretends to himself and us that he is reading the scriptures fairly. This guy is beyond our help. I would like to see us agree to submit to him just one question from all of us which we all agree on. Like: How do you explain that the OT in its original Hebrew did not predict that a virgin will have a baby as the NT says, but instead said "born of a young woman"? THIS MEANS THAT IN TRUTH  NO OT SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT JESUS WILL BE BORN OF A VIRGIN. Then we should respond to none of his posts until he answers that question.  bill

[TheRedneckProfessor]

He won't answer your questions anymore than he will read the scriptures objectively, rather than as a believer. But he pretends to himself and us that he is reading the scriptures fairly. This guy is beyond our help. bill

You might be right, bill; hell you probably are.  But one thing I do know from experience is that no one can visit Auschwitz without asking themselves serious questions about god and his supposed benevolence.

[Ravenstar]

IH… Viktor Frankl… seriously, google is your friend, so is reading.

 

Please.. read first… bring up Auschwitz again after.

 

 

 

Why does every discussion about Yahweh end up being about Nazi's or Hitler? Why not the civil war?  Or the genocide of the Mayans?  What about WW1?  Or Alexander's rampage through the known world?  What about the Indian revolution with the British? Or the MYRIAD wars fought in Europe over the past 2000 years? etc…  just curious.

 

sigh

[mymistake]

IH… Viktor Frankl… seriously, google is your friend, so is reading.

 

Please.. read first… bring up Auschwitz again after.

 

 

 

Why does every discussion about Yahweh end up being about Nazi's or Hitler? Why not the civil war?  Or the genocide of the Mayans?  What about WW1?  Or Alexander's rampage through the known world?  What about the Indian revolution with the British? Or the MYRIAD wars fought in Europe over the past 2000 years? etc…  just curious.

 

sigh

 

 

I think the Nazis are the goto Evil Empire^tm because there are still some people alive who remember the 40's and the Nazis effected all the First World countries.  There have been other bad guys before and since.  But those other guys mostly effect the Third World or previous generations.  Anyhow the Second World War has worked it's way into popular culture, movies, video games and so on.  The Nazis make for great bad guys.

[RipVanWinkle]

I am convinced that if there were a real god, he/she would have stopped the Holocaust before it got started. If not, there is no benevolent god. It was too horrible for words.  bill

[FreeThinkerNZ]

The irony here is that one of humanity's main responses to the Holocaust was to establish the UN, which has been trying to promote humane values since its inception.   One of those activities was the protection of the people of Gaza in the face of an Israeli onslaught that has killed and injured thousands in recent weeks.  Despite being told more than 30 times where one UN facility was, and that it was being used to provide refuge for civilians, Israel went and bombed the bejesus out of it anyway.  IH, in typical form, dodged this issue when I put it to him and instead parroted some fundie-inspired bullshit about Israel representing god's chosen people.  So IH don't lecture me about the fault of humans in the Holocaust or anything else without admitting that your favourite middle eastern warlords are doing the same shit on a different day, in the name of their god.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

The irony here is that one of humanity's main responses to the Holocaust was to establish the UN, which has been trying to promote humane values since its inception.   One of those activities was the protection of the people of Gaza in the face of an Israeli onslaught that has killed and injured thousands in recent weeks.  Despite being told more than 30 times where one UN facility was, and that it was being used to provide refuge for civilians, Israel went and bombed the bejesus out of it anyway.  IH, in typical form, dodged this issue when I put it to him and instead parroted some fundie-inspired bullshit about Israel representing god's chosen people.  So IH don't lecture me about the fault of humans in the Holocaust or anything else without admitting that your favourite middle eastern warlords are doing the same shit on a different day, in the name of their god.

 

Well, Israel is representing Yahweh's chosen people. They're killing innocent people, just like in the good ol' days in the Old Testament.

[ironhorse]

Ironhorse, I know you typically either ignore or dodge the questions I pose to you, but I really want you to answer these, if you would.

 

Have you ever been to Auschwitz? 

 

Have you ever seen the crematoria up close?  Or been inside the gas chamber? 

 

Have you walked under the archway that says "ARBEIT MACHT FREI"?  Or through the gate of doom at Auschwitz II (Birkenau)?  Have you seen the inside of a typical barrack? 

 

Have you ever watched as a crowd of Jewish school children learned of the fates of many of their own relatives while looking at the barbed-wire?

 

Have you ever seen the inside of the hospital ward in Auschwitz, where painful medical experiments were conducted on human beings as though they were lab rats?  Have you ever seen the main gallows, or the death wall, where innocent people were shot in cold blood?

 

Have you seen the empty cannisters of Zyklon B on display?  Or the prayer cloths?  Or the piles of shoes, eyeglasses, suitcases, teeth--each of which represents the life stolen from a real, breathing, fearful human being? 

 

Has your heart ever shattered as your eye fell upon a shoe that would have fit your own child, realizing that some other father, just like yourself, bought that shoe for his child, just as you had so often done?

 

I have seen and done all of these things and I can and will answer your "query".

 

"In Auschwitz, where was god?"  god was not in Auschwitz.  god has never been anywhere near Auschwitz. 

 

"Where was man?"  Man was in Auschwitz.  Man created Auschwitz and Man destroyed in Auschwitz.  Ultimately, Man liberated Auschwitz.  Yes, Man has incredible potential, both for evil and for good. 

 

But god, simply watches and allows the sun to shine upon both the righteous and the wicked.

 

Worship him if you will; but until he proves himself worthy of it, I will not.

 

 

"I have seen and done all of these things and I can and will answer your "query"."

 

~TheRedneckProfessor

 

 

Were you there at Auschwitz. during the war?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Ironhorse, I know you typically either ignore or dodge the questions I pose to you, but I really want you to answer these, if you would.

 

Have you ever been to Auschwitz? 

 

Have you ever seen the crematoria up close?  Or been inside the gas chamber? 

 

Have you walked under the archway that says "ARBEIT MACHT FREI"?  Or through the gate of doom at Auschwitz II (Birkenau)?  Have you seen the inside of a typical barrack? 

 

Have you ever watched as a crowd of Jewish school children learned of the fates of many of their own relatives while looking at the barbed-wire?

 

Have you ever seen the inside of the hospital ward in Auschwitz, where painful medical experiments were conducted on human beings as though they were lab rats?  Have you ever seen the main gallows, or the death wall, where innocent people were shot in cold blood?

 

Have you seen the empty cannisters of Zyklon B on display?  Or the prayer cloths?  Or the piles of shoes, eyeglasses, suitcases, teeth--each of which represents the life stolen from a real, breathing, fearful human being? 

 

Has your heart ever shattered as your eye fell upon a shoe that would have fit your own child, realizing that some other father, just like yourself, bought that shoe for his child, just as you had so often done?

 

I have seen and done all of these things and I can and will answer your "query".

 

"In Auschwitz, where was god?"  god was not in Auschwitz.  god has never been anywhere near Auschwitz. 

 

"Where was man?"  Man was in Auschwitz.  Man created Auschwitz and Man destroyed in Auschwitz.  Ultimately, Man liberated Auschwitz.  Yes, Man has incredible potential, both for evil and for good. 

 

But god, simply watches and allows the sun to shine upon both the righteous and the wicked.

 

Worship him if you will; but until he proves himself worthy of it, I will not.

 

 

"I have seen and done all of these things and I can and will answer your "query"."

 

~TheRedneckProfessor

 

 

Were you there at Auschwitz. during the war?

 

I will not answer any of your questions until you have answered mine.

[bornagainathiest]

Ironhorse believes that you HAVE to answer his questions when he asks them, Prof.

 

So, you... HAVE TO DO IT... because he believes you do.