Im A Christian Again

[Michael]

I really was not going to mention this because I do see that there is another thread that has been started by another Christian about this BUT.....if the people on this messageboard claimed to be a Christian for 5, 10, 20, 30 years, then why did they not KNOW Him personally in an intimate way?

 

Oh I was convinced, that god speaks to me. You should read my diaries from those days. I have met god in worship times and in prayer meetings. I have felt the presence of god during xian conferences and during the "toronto blessing" I have got touched by god for weeks. I had prophecies for others that became true.....and so on. I thought that I KNOW god. I can remember thinking: If other people just would KNOW him, they would immediately follow him. And now? Did I know him? What do yo think?

[Crazy Donna]

Heres a wild thought..Im just going to throw it out there and see where it leads.

 

Do you guys who claim to have been Christians before and are now "ex-Christians" think that perhaps the course you are on right now is in fact the very one that Jesus wants you to be on? So like in some strange way you still are Chrisitans just not the going-to-church type of Christians? Like maybe this is the course He intended you to go down, and you never really deconverted just sort of transformed into something else? I dont even know if what I am asking makes any sense..but if anyone can understand where I am going, then feel free to comment.

 

Like even though you classify yourself as "ex-Christians" really you are just on a different wavelenght then before? It does say that God is the potter and we are the clay so He makes us into who He wants us to be...but maybe He has an altogether different plan for you guys? I dont know, that sounds somewhat fishy to me, but I am willing to entertain the thought if not for a moment

No, because if i'm the kind of christian jesus wants me to be right now, I'm going to burn in hell for an eternity. So your god is still a humanity hating motherfucker, if you try to play it from this angle.

 

I am not a christian in any sense of the word. I despise a theology that would send people to hell simply because they didn't believe in something. The whole concept of a loving god torturing the majority of his creation for eternity for the sins of one human being (eve) is utterly irreconcilable. Either he doesn't love us (because he wants us to suffer unimaginably for something we can't control) or he doesn't exist. He is meant to be the god of love, but he is utterly unloving if he thinks that creating a hell for his reject children is a demonstration of his love.

 

I'll humour you. Yes, your god has a plan for us. He wants us to ROT IN HELL FOR ETERNITY because he loves us so much that only our horrendous suffering unending torture will make him happy.

 

I wouldn't treat my worst enemy like that. If I was to breed guinea pigs for the explicit purpose of burning the babies alive in a ten gallon drum, I would know what it is like to be the sick god you worship. Because how is it different? He obviously takes pleasure in the idea of us burning for eternity, otherwise it wouldn't be happening. We'd either have our wish and be happy christians, or hell would not exist.

 

If you say hell doesn't exist, you're not a christian. You don't get out of it that easily, troll.

[OnceConvinced]

Heres a wild thought..Im just going to throw it out there and see where it leads.

 

Do you guys who claim to have been Christians before and are now "ex-Christians" think that perhaps the course you are on right now is in fact the very one that Jesus wants you to be on? So like in some strange way you still are Chrisitans just not the going-to-church type of Christians? Like maybe this is the course He intended you to go down, and you never really deconverted just sort of transformed into something else? I dont even know if what I am asking makes any sense..but if anyone can understand where I am going, then feel free to comment.

 

Oh hell yeah. I used to try to believe that early on in my deconversion. I really wanted to believe that big time. But now for God (if he were real) to bring me back he's gonna have to perform a real miracle. I can think of a particular miracle he could do that is no real big deal which would bring me running back to him. But he hasn't done it. And the longer he delays the less likely it is that miracle is ever going to occur.

 

God, I really want that miracle to happen. Sigh.

 

 

Like even though you classify yourself as "ex-Christians" really you are just on a different wavelenght then before? It does say that God is the potter and we are the clay so He makes us into who He wants us to be...but maybe He has an altogether different plan for you guys? I dont know, that sounds somewhat fishy to me, but I am willing to entertain the thought if not for a moment

 

Perhaps his plan is the plan he has for the majority of mankind. And that's to have us burn for all eternity in Hell.

[Guest Justyna]

Crazy-Donna,

 

I did not mean it that way. What I meant was...do you think you are on some "tangent" of some sorts right now at this point and God is teaching you something about life etc, but is going to bring you back to Him in the end? Thats sort of what I was going with that, but I dont blame you for taking my post the wrong way as it was sort of out there and confusing.

[bdp]

Heres a wild thought..Im just going to throw it out there and see where it leads.

 

Do you guys who claim to have been Christians before and are now "ex-Christians" think that perhaps the course you are on right now is in fact the very one that Jesus wants you to be on?

 

How can a dead man 'want' anything for me? And stuff that 'claim to be' shit up your ass.

 

You're a narcissist.

[Guest Justyna]

Awww OnceConvined, you are making me sad with your post. I hope you get your miracle too!

[Guest Justyna]

OnceConvinced,

 

But if you believe Gods plan is to send most of the people to hell, then why does it say in the Bible that He does not want anyone to perish?

 

Is your answer going to be that the Bible is a lie that contradicts itself and that God is playing games with His creation?

[Crazy Donna]

Crazy-Donna,

 

I did not mean it that way. What I meant was...do you think you are on some "tangent" of some sorts right now at this point and God is teaching you something about life etc, but is going to bring you back to Him in the end? Thats sort of what I was going with that, but I dont blame you for taking my post the wrong way as it was sort of out there and confusing.

It isn't a phase or a tangent I'm on. I'm not choosing to turn my back on jesus. Okay? It is NOT a choice. It is something that happened against my will.

 

I don't know how I can keep saying this and you can keep denying it.

 

IT IS NOT A CHOICE. I lost my faith AGAINST MY WILL. Now I don't believe, the same way you don't believe in santa claus. It is exactly the same. You don't believe in santa because you have seen evidence that contradicts the existence of santa, and you receive no message from santa telling you that that evidence is false. It is exactly the same with god. I didn't choose to lose my faith. I just saw god for what he is -- nonexistent -- and once you realise something doesn't exist, you can't magically just believe in it.

 

The very fact that I can't should be enough evidence for you that god doesn't exist, because if he wanted me, he would have revealed himself to me. If what you say about god is true, then he didn't want me, because i'm not a christian. Do you get it?

[Michael]

Heres a wild thought..Im just going to throw it out there and see where it leads.

 

Do you guys who claim to have been Christians before and are now "ex-Christians" think that perhaps the course you are on right now is in fact the very one that Jesus wants you to be on? So like in some strange way you still are Chrisitans just not the going-to-church type of Christians? Like maybe this is the course He intended you to go down, and you never really deconverted just sort of transformed into something else? I dont even know if what I am asking makes any sense..but if anyone can understand where I am going, then feel free to comment.

 

Like even though you classify yourself as "ex-Christians" really you are just on a different wavelenght then before? It does say that God is the potter and we are the clay so He makes us into who He wants us to be...but maybe He has an altogether different plan for you guys? I dont know, that sounds somewhat fishy to me, but I am willing to entertain the thought if not for a moment

 

God is preparing me to serve atheists all around the world. He wants me to understand how they feel and how they think and than he will make me his tool to evangelize with love and respect to the atheists. This is a time of preparation, because I needed some detoxication from the xian stuff to reach the lost. Something this way?

[OnceConvinced]

I really was not going to mention this because I do see that there is another thread that has been started by another Christian about this BUT.....if the people on this messageboard claimed to be a Christian for 5, 10, 20, 30 years, then why did they not KNOW Him personally in an intimate way?

 

Oh I was convinced, that god speaks to me. You should read my diaries from those days. I have met god in worship times and in prayer meetings. I have felt the presence of god during xian conferences and during the "toronto blessing" I have got touched by god for weeks. I had prophecies for others that became true.....and so on. I thought that I KNOW god. I can remember thinking: If other people just would KNOW him, they would immediately follow him. And now? Did I know him? What do yo think?

 

Actually now that you mention this it reminds me of diaries I kept back in 88-90. I kept hold of them because they were very miserable times in my life (which coincdently were the times I believed I was closest to God). I said to myself that I would read these diaries wheneever things seemed bad so that I could see the pain I went through and that God brought me out of it and into good things. I determined that if ever I felt ungrateful I would read them and know that I had things to be thankful for. But in reality, now that I read them I see a period in my life where God did absolutely nothing. I see a time where if I had just thrown aside religion, I would have been a lot better off. I see a time where I was deluded. I see a time where if I'd just got off my butt and taken action myself rather than spending so much time praying and waiting for God to act, I would have achieved what I set out to achieve a lot sooner. Whenever I read them now I feel angry, but not at God, only at myself.

[Guest Justyna]

Ive often wondered why God doesnt just wipe us ALL out and distory the planets, earth and sky and just sort of move on from us altogether. I mean we as humans are impossible sometimes. We whine, complain, bicker, call Him a liar and a fake, worship other gods, and on and on and on. I mean why doesnt He just say "Ok! Enough! Ive had it with these people!" And just sort of move on or create a "people" that will worship Him and obey Him and not give Him grief as we often times do. I wish I knew His mind more

[bdp]

I wish I knew His mind more

 

Maybe if you had more faith...

[Crazy Donna]

Ive often wondered why God doesnt just wipe us ALL out and distory the planets, earth and sky and just sort of move on from us altogether. I mean we as humans are impossible sometimes. We whine, complain, bicker, call Him a liar and a fake, worship other gods, and on and on and on. I mean why doesnt He just say "Ok! Enough! Ive had it with these people!" And just sort of move on or create a "people" that will worship Him and obey Him and not give Him grief as we often times do. I wish I knew His mind more

If you really honestly believe that god should wipe us all out, even though he created us KNOWING we would be exactly like this, so he could have just not done it and not had the bother, then you are no better than the monstrosity of a god you worship. That is truly sick.

 

He created people engineered to fail his demands, and then punishes them for it. Sick. Just sick.

[Guest Justyna]

BDP,

 

What do you mean by "If you had more faith...?"

 

Do you mean that if I had more faith then I would know more of His mind? Can you elaborate please?

[bdp]

Ive often wondered why God doesnt just wipe us ALL out and distory the planets, earth and sky and just sort of move on from us altogether. I mean we as humans are impossible sometimes. We whine, complain, bicker, call Him a liar and a fake, worship other gods, and on and on and on. I mean why doesnt He just say "Ok! Enough! Ive had it with these people!" And just sort of move on or create a "people" that will worship Him and obey Him and not give Him grief as we often times do. I wish I knew His mind more

If you really honestly believe that god should wipe us all out, even though he created us KNOWING we would be exactly like this, so he could have just not done it and not had the bother, then you are no better than the monstrosity of a god you worship. That is truly sick.

 

He created people engineered to fail his demands, and then punishes them for it. Sick. Just sick.

 

I think Justyna needs to turn this question around - if 'god' really truly is willing that none should perish, then why DO they?

[OnceConvinced]

OnceConvinced,

 

But if you believe Gods plan is to send most of the people to hell, then why does it say in the Bible that He does not want anyone to perish?

 

 

The bible also says:

 

Matt 7: 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

Seeing as God is omniscient and knows all that is going to happen from the beginning of time, then he knew when he created the earth that he would be sending the majority of his creations to hell. If he did not change his plan then obviously it was his will that he send the majority to hell. Otherwise he would have changed the way he did things.

 

Is your answer going to be that the Bible is a lie that contradicts itself and that God is playing games with His creation?

 

Funny you should mention this. When I first deconverted I still believed in a God of some kind. I classed myself as a deist. But it seemed to me that God was indeed playing games with his creations.

 

Here's a little article I wrote back then in about the first year or two of falling from the faith:

 

If I were God who is omnipotent, omnipresent, super super intelligent and all that stuff, I reckon I could become pretty bored pretty easy. So what would I do? Perhaps create a game to keep me entertained. Create a world (or use one that already existed), put some toys on it.... but not just any toys, toys that have a mind of their own and can go about doing what ever they want to do. And then be part of those toys lives and influence them, talk to them, allow things to happen to them (good or bad). But even better, let's have an opponent in this game. Let's have someone play against me. "Hey Lucifer you jerk, get over here, I'm gonna play this game against you and let's see who wins".

 

And so I play the game for hundreds of years. Toys come and toys go. Strategies change. "Dang it, Lucifer's winning. I know, I'm gonna wipe out everything with a flood.... except for that character Noah and his family....... Ha ha ha ha ! Centuries later. Ok, things still aren't going to well, Lucifer is still winning. I know, I'm gonna actually make myself part of this game, so I'm gonna become one of those toys. Maybe this way I can better get control of the game and win it. "Ha ha Lucifer I've got you now! I'm one of the characters in the game now - Jesus! You're going down!"

 

Lucifer has to start cheating to win, so pulls out every dirty trick in the book. And the game continues.....

 

OK, this is an embellished scenario and assumes God and the Devil exist. It assumes that Jesus really is God. On the surface it may seem like a rather silly scenario, but really just how silly is it? A more intelligent being needs to more things to keep him busy. If you were God, you surely wouldn’t create a world just to be worshiped. You’d be hoping it gives you some kind of entertainment or job to do.

 

Perhaps your God really is a malevolent God, despite what your bible claims?

[Guest Justyna]

Crazy-Donna,

 

OR maybe the reason He as God has not wiped all of humanity away forever and turned us back to dust where we came from is because He IS LOVE and DOES love us immensely

 

This just shows how human I am: If I was God, and I had to hear the constant whining of my people and the sins they keep commiting even after I told them not to a hundred times....I would probably move on and find a new kind of creation that was not so stubborn. That is how I would deal with the world in my fleshy sense if I was God. But see, God has never done that to us. He promised to never leave us, and creation continues to pro-create and exist. Wow..I would be a horrible "God." Im glad He is better than this.

[OnceConvinced]

Ive often wondered why God doesnt just wipe us ALL out and distory the planets, earth and sky and just sort of move on from us altogether. I mean we as humans are impossible sometimes. We whine, complain, bicker, call Him a liar and a fake, worship other gods, and on and on and on. I mean why doesnt He just say "Ok! Enough! Ive had it with these people!" And just sort of move on or create a "people" that will worship Him and obey Him and not give Him grief as we often times do. I wish I knew His mind more

 

Well...

 

1) If we do all those things, it's because he created us that way with those particular inclinations. So it was his intention.

 

2) From a deist perspective, that may be exactly what he's done. He's created us. Did a lot of stuff on Earth for a few thousand years, got bored, moved on and left us to it. (and let's face it even in the OT God expresses regrets, eg, Making Saul King. And I believe there's even a scripture about how he regretted creating mankind.)

[Guest Valk0010]

Ive often wondered why God doesnt just wipe us ALL out and distory the planets, earth and sky and just sort of move on from us altogether. I mean we as humans are impossible sometimes. We whine, complain, bicker, call Him a liar and a fake, worship other gods, and on and on and on. I mean why doesnt He just say "Ok! Enough! Ive had it with these people!" And just sort of move on or create a "people" that will worship Him and obey Him and not give Him grief as we often times do. I wish I knew His mind more

he is a fabrication, of ignorant bronze age peasants trying to explain what they didn't know about the world.

[Guest Justyna]

Once-Convinced,

 

Ohhhh..thats scandalous! Do you mean that we Christians who call ourselves "The Bride of Christ," are not in reality His one prized possession...like He has a "Secret Girlfriend"....a.ka. a different kind of creation altogether that He is involved with? Oh the horror!

[Guest Valk0010]

Once-Convinced,

 

Ohhhh..thats scandalous! Do you mean that we Christians who call ourselves "The Bride of Christ," are not in reality His one prized possession...like He has a "Secret Girlfriend"....a.ka. a different kind of creation altogether that He is involved with? Oh the horror!

Its a old and tired expresion,but its lasted so long due to truth, but if god can cure the blind why not just take away blindness.

[Vigile]

Ive often wondered why God doesnt just wipe us ALL out and distory the planets, earth and sky and just sort of move on from us altogether. I mean we as humans are impossible sometimes. We whine, complain, bicker, call Him a liar and a fake, worship other gods, and on and on and on. I mean why doesnt He just say "Ok! Enough! Ive had it with these people!" And just sort of move on or create a "people" that will worship Him and obey Him and not give Him grief as we often times do. I wish I knew His mind more

 

You xians have the most fucked up world views. It's sick how low your self esteem is as well as your regard for humanity. And then you claim you have peace. Peace my ass. Like I said in one of the many posts you've ignored, your relationship with this imaginary being isn't anything more than a major guilt trip about your own humanity. You are truly a pitiful soul.

[Realist]

Ive often wondered why God doesnt just wipe us ALL out and distory the planets, earth and sky and just sort of move on from us altogether. I mean we as humans are impossible sometimes. We whine, complain, bicker, call Him a liar and a fake, worship other gods, and on and on and on. I mean why doesnt He just say "Ok! Enough! Ive had it with these people!" And just sort of move on or create a "people" that will worship Him and obey Him and not give Him grief as we often times do. I wish I knew His mind more

 

... I think you ARE truly sick! People like you are the equal of muslim terrorists. Truly this evil needs wiping from this planet! While such people live (and unfortunately breed!) this planets future IS bleak!

[Guest Justyna]

Hmmm..

 

I dont know Valk...why doesnt God just take away blindness? Heres a generic answer: Maybe because it brings Him glory...possibly.

 

I sometimes watch this reality show on TV...its about the woman who does not have legs. I forget what her condition is called, but she only has a head,an upper body, and a torso..and thats it! Her body stops there. She does not have legs to walk on at all. I wish I knew what her condition is called, but I do not. Anyway...she has to litterly walk on her hands to get around. She was born this way. Well I saw her show and her life is tough, let me tell you! First off she is very very poor. She lives in a government house, and its very run down and small. She is married (to a man that does have legs) and actually has either one or two kids..I cant remember. The way God made her body is that she can have kids (I know some of you were thinking of this as was I when I first saw it). She also has elderly parents who are very sick and she has a brother who is schizophrenic. Wow, now that is a plate full. She walks around on her hands, and sometimes rides a skateboard to get around. She cooks, she cleans, she does the shopping, raised her kids etc...she was determined to not let her disability get in her way. And let me tell you..she was soooo amazing and beautiful. She talked on the show how she does not complain that God made her this way, and she believes that she does not have it that bad regardless of the sitaution. I was impressed by her attitude and felt I could learn from her a great deal. I was touched and instantly knew that I dont shine like this woman does. What a great story. I mean it is sad, but she made it amazing.

 

The point is that she brings glory to God through her disability. I think He is greatly pleased with her and loves her dearly! I really dont know why He let her be born the way she was or why some are blind etc..but I know that He always has a reason. I dont think He just does things for the sake of doing them. The hardest part is when we dont understand His reasoning..thats when it gets tricky and our faith is put to the test.

[Realist]

Crazy-Donna,

 

OR maybe the reason He as God has not wiped all of humanity away forever and turned us back to dust where we came from is because He IS LOVE and DOES love us immensely

 

This just shows how human I am: If I was God, and I had to hear the constant whining of my people and the sins they keep commiting even after I told them not to a hundred times....I would probably move on and find a new kind of creation that was not so stubborn. That is how I would deal with the world in my fleshy sense if I was God. But see, God has never done that to us. He promised to never leave us, and creation continues to pro-create and exist. Wow..I would be a horrible "God." Im glad He is better than this.

 

... thank christ your idol does not exist!!