Get Your Prayers Answered Now!!!

[pug]

Pug-

 

How serious is your questioning? Tell me where you're at in your thinking.

 

Sofi

 

Hi Sofia,

 

Please be more specific! But i'll just guess first.. Serious in my questioning? Errr... serious? Ummmm... i check the scriptures; i check various christian sites; i consult pastors; lastly i ask God.

 

Just in case: i'm Protestant > Assemblies of God; use NIV bible - refer to KJV sometimes - crosswalk.com is a good check for most passages... i'm a baby Christian; converted late in life and recently (Feb, 2005); and i live in Malaysia ~ an Islamic country ~ but it being democratic (in a way), we are allowed to have freedom of choice; religions included (no cults, must be within law). But Jehovah's Witness are thriving! So are other Islamic cults. Recently one such cult was errrr... eliminated.

[Sofia]

I suppose what I'm asking is if you are seriously questioning everything you believe about Christianity and considering throwing in the towel?

[pug]

OM,

What do I think?

 

I think that if you feel the "other pagan deities" had any power at all, that you are still perceiving "God" among "other gods".

No, Jesus Christ is the King of kings. The ultimate God. The one God. Can be perceived as God among other gods i presume but nevertheless head/leader God.

 

I think that no one here is asking you to "become an atheist", only to think - really think - about the perception of "god" that you currently have.

I know. My perception will forever look flawed to non-believers because you or they do not have faith or believe that there's a god and if some others do they do not believe the Christian God is that god. Yeah think, really think... and i do my homework too... then whammm.... God whispers, shows me.... wait stop, nothing more to say.

 

I know - from personal experience - that it is possible to be Christian and have a deeper, more universal understanding of God than you seem to have.

I'm curious, are you saying you have a deeper, more universal understanding of God than me? Glory. Please share your knowledge.

 

But - you seem very angry Pug.

Apologies. But - "seem" is just the word!!! There are many flavours of people here. So sometimes i may sound a little irritated. Well, in turn, they are with me too ~ why can't i understand their POV and why can't they take my POV? OM, mostly i just relate my experiences and someone will always rebutt with it is possible that... which i already have examined but if it had happened personally to them... i would ask them the same questions... so round and round, so seem to be angry... apologies.

 

And I don't know if you are really catching anything that people here are trying to say.

Well, at first yes... i was quite hostile, then Amanda pm-ed me and advised me so i toned down... lots. Now? No problembo.

 

You say you came to this forum to learn... but your anger seems to keep you from really exploring the full depth of your own beliefs. And I think that this is sad

Hey thanks for catching me! You see... was that God speaking to me through you? Nahhhh... but thanks again OM.

 

 

I suppose what I'm asking is if you are seriously questioning everything you believe about Christianity and considering throwing in the towel?

 

Hell NO.... ha ha of course not. I'm on fire!

[Sofia]

Hell NO.... ha ha of course not. I'm on fire!

 

Experience tells me otherwise, but I will watch and see.

 

Take care.

[Open_Minded]

I know - from personal experience - that it is possible to be Christian and have a deeper, more universal understanding of God than you seem to have.

I'm curious, are you saying you have a deeper, more universal understanding of God than me? Glory. Please share your knowledge.

 

1st: I said that it is possible to be Christian and have a deeper, more universal understanding of God than you SEEM to have.

 

Your description of the "other pagan deities" and the power and control they had over you is very telling, Pug. If one understands God as ONE than there is nothing else Pug. There is nothing that can "come after" you, nothing. It wouldn't matter if you were Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, whatever - there is only ONENESS and all of creation exists within this ONENESS - this Alpha and Omega. Truly Pug, if there is only the Alpha and Omega than we all "live and move and have our being" within it. Don't you see???? By seeing the situation you went through as some sort of battle between "other pagan deities" and Christ you are dividing the ultimate reality. What can exist beyond or outside the Alpha and Omega?

 

Again... I used the wording "seem to have". If I am wrong please correct me.

 

You say you came to this forum to learn... but your anger seems to keep you from really exploring the full depth of your own beliefs. And I think that this is sad

 

Hey thanks for catching me! You see... was that God speaking to me through you? Nahhhh... but thanks again OM.

 

Pug, I'm not trying to "teach" you anything. I'm trying to get you to explore something inside you that keeps you coming back to this forum. You keep coming back.... I can never tell when reading your posts if your just being sarcastic and flippant or if you are serious.

 

Either way... it's difficult to carry on a conversation with you ... and again this makes me sad (and unwilling to continue any further since it seems fruitless. And once again, if I'm wrong please do correct me.

[pug]

OM,

 

Your description of the "other pagan deities" and the power and control they had over you is very telling, Pug. If one understands God as ONE than there is nothing else Pug. There is nothing that can "come after" you, nothing. It wouldn't matter if you were Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, whatever - there is only ONENESS and all of creation exists within this ONENESS - this Alpha and Omega. Truly Pug, if there is only the Alpha and Omega than we all "live and move and have our being" within it. Don't you see???? By seeing the situation you went through as some sort of battle between "other pagan deities" and Christ you are dividing the ultimate reality. What can exist beyond or outside the Alpha and Omega?

 

there is only ONENESS and all of creation exists within this ONENESS... "live and move and have our being" within it ~ your description/explaination smacks of humans achieving godhood ~ not unlike Buddhism. I see but I do not agree with your "belief".

[pug]

Pug, I'm not trying to "teach" you anything. I'm trying to get you to explore something inside you that keeps you coming back to this forum. You keep coming back.... I can never tell when reading your posts if your just being sarcastic and flippant or if you are serious.

OM, i'm exploring... but it does not mean i have to agree or accept what i've explored, right? Well, sometimes i'm sarcastic, oftentimes flippant, even serious or all three. I keep coming back because it's quite stimulating and challenging.

 

Either way... it's difficult to carry on a conversation with you ... and again this makes me sad (and unwilling to continue any further since it seems fruitless). And once again, if I'm wrong please do correct me.

Hey, it may seem fruitless and sad to you but me is happily learning things, the very least we are having is a lively, civil conversation? You can't be wrong (or right), we are just two ppl in front of our screens exchanging views and view points. Not necessary to force opinions on each other. You point, i explore. I rebutt, you rebutt.

 

I said that it is possible to be Christian and have a deeper, more universal understanding of God than you SEEM to have.

Of course it is possible! Thanks for your concern.

[Asuryan]

 

It's exactly that ~ very, very rare and yet happened after a specific prayer for that specific person that was so amazing that it prompted? persuaded? convinced? said family to follow Christ.

 

 

Cancer regression happens to people that don't believe in your god and don't pray, too.

Have you ever heard of probability?

Get 1D6... Oops. A regular dice: throw it. Twenty times. Let's say that you obtain this result:

1 6 2 2 3 1 4 5 6 2 5 1 3 5 4 4 4 1 3 5

Do you know how many possibilities are there for someone to get precisely that result?

 

1 / 3.656.158.440.062.976th.

 

The chances of it happening are so small! And yet it happened! What has god to do with it? I'll tell you: absolutely nothing.

Let's say that you want this result, instead:

 

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

 

Do you know how many possibilities are there for THIS result?

 

1 / 3.656.158.440.062.976th.

 

Exactly like the sequence of numbers above. Even if the sequence of 1s seems so much more "Special" to us, it isn't. Its specialty is in our eyes, it is not objective. The probability for the first set of numbers to happen is exactly the same you have for the sequence of 1s.

 

Let's say that the sequence of 1s represents the regression of cancer happened in a family of praying people. Let's say instead that the first set of numbers represents the regression of cancer happened in a family of people who have never even heard about a christian god.

See? The percentage is the same.

I don't doubt that for a christian person, that has cancer, knowing that people are praying for him can help his mood improve and his immunitary system to work at its best, thus helping him a little bit and increasing slightly his chances of cancer regression.

But this betterment would happen even if no one prayed for him and he was just convinced of it.

 

Experiments have been made, about the healing powers of prayer. REAL,scientific experiments, with a control group, double blind, and so on. You know what?

Prayer doesn't work. I'm sure that you can find more informations about this study on this same website.

 

He knows what's needed but will you be convinced? If He shows you a little miracle will you scoff at it and say it's mere co-incidence? If He shows you nothing will you be convinced by someone else's (someone close hopefully) testimony?

 

You don't seem to have a clue about your own god, do you?

God is all powerful and all knowing.

He know what is needed to convert me and the others on this website. Meaning, he knows what could convert me, without doubts any more, instantly! And he has the power to make it happen immediately.

Hesitent's children could be adopted, all of them, instantly, right now, this very minute! God has of course the power to make this happen. Hesitent would instantly convert if such a thing became true.

Nivek could be instantly cured of his illness, his kidneys could start working again perfectly, god could make his diabethes disappear with a wiggle of his toes, in the course of a night, what am I saying: in an instant. That would convert Nivek for sure. And what about HanSolo's family, Fweethawt's wife, etc?

 

Pug, you are talking as if your god was unable, or not powerful enough, to do this sort of things. You are talking as if the only miracles that your god is able to perform are little things that can be taken as coincidences (finding a parking... making the rain calm down a liiittle bit... causing a cancer regression that could've happened also without his help...). Do you realize this?

 

God isn't making these things, which COULD and WILL convert us, happening.

Does this mean that he doesn't *want* us to convert to christianity? He doesn't want us?

[Open_Minded]

OM,

 

Your description of the "other pagan deities" and the power and control they had over you is very telling, Pug. If one understands God as ONE than there is nothing else Pug. There is nothing that can "come after" you, nothing. It wouldn't matter if you were Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, whatever - there is only ONENESS and all of creation exists within this ONENESS - this Alpha and Omega. Truly Pug, if there is only the Alpha and Omega than we all "live and move and have our being" within it. Don't you see???? By seeing the situation you went through as some sort of battle between "other pagan deities" and Christ you are dividing the ultimate reality. What can exist beyond or outside the Alpha and Omega?

 

there is only ONENESS and all of creation exists within this ONENESS... "live and move and have our being" within it ~ your description/explaination smacks of humans achieving godhood ~ not unlike Buddhism. I see but I do not agree with your "belief".

 

You don't have to agree with my "belief", Pug. Just answer the question. YOU BELIEVE that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. So if Christ is the Beginning and the End then where, oh where, can "other pagan deities" get ANY power or control over you, or anyone else for that matter?

 

This is about your belief in Jesus as the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. There is nothing beyond that Pug, no other power, no anything.... So how could those "other pagan deities" even exist... let alone have power to hurt you, or anyone else?

 

I'd really like to know the answer to this.

[pug]

OM,

There is nothing beyond that Pug, no other power, no anything.... So how could those "other pagan deities" even exist... let alone have power to hurt you, or anyone else?

 

Here's my speculative answer: If the Christian God has all power... you mean there can't be a lesser god with some power? What if the Christian God, because He has the power, allows limited power to pagan deities to tempt un-believers? What do you think?

[Fweethawt]

I'm on fire!

Is this a true statement?

[pug]

A,

Pug, you are talking as if your god was unable, or not powerful enough, to do this sort of things. You are talking as if the only miracles that your god is able to perform are little things that can be taken as coincidences (finding a parking... making the rain calm down a liiittle bit... causing a cancer regression that could've happened also without his help...). Do you realize this?

Making the rain calm down a little at exactly the moment i prayed for is not powerful? (It happened again yesterday BTW.) Well, it is to me.

 

God isn't making these things, which COULD and WILL convert us, happening.

Please get ready to accept Him first. I do not think He wishes to force you. Ummm... maybe. I really don't know. Perhaps He has His own special way to persuade you. Some hard core un-believers need signs. Some others need examples (of a good Christian). There are many ways.

 

IF you read my sad, sorry story it was pretty horrific and violent. You have been a Catholic, then a Christian... i really don't know how He will make it happen for you again.

 

Does this mean that he doesn't *want* us to convert to christianity? He doesn't want us?

Please... you know the answer already. Of course He wants you. In fact you will be a powerful testimony to glorify Him. But why not now? I don't know. Perhaps He wishes you to... ummm, i really don't know.

[Open_Minded]

OM,

There is nothing beyond that Pug, no other power, no anything.... So how could those "other pagan deities" even exist... let alone have power to hurt you, or anyone else?

 

Here's my speculative answer: If the Christian God has all power... you mean there can't be a lesser god with some power? What if the Christian God, because He has the power, allows limited power to pagan deities to tempt un-believers? What do you think?

 

Well.... would a God of LOVE allow "limited power to pagan deities to tempt un-believers"?

 

I'm serious about this Pug, I consider myself Christian. I believe Jesus is the Word made Flesh and never in my wildest imagination could I see the God of Love that I believe in "tempting" unbelievers. It just doesn't fit. It doesn't fit that a God of Love could have such a place as hell. Neither of those things come remotely close to LOVE.

 

You say your answer is "speculative", this shows an open mind, Pug. So, my next question is how does allowing "limited power to pagan deities to tempt un-believers" fit the following definition of LOVE - this definition is from 1 Cor 13:4-7.

 

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude.

It does not insist on its own way

; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth.

It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things

.

 

Looking forward to your answer.

[Fweethawt]

Leukemia victims, rape victims, cancer victims, etc., etc. But by golly gee, he can calm the storm!

Don't forget about all of the celebrities and athletes.

 

Lord knows, they get much more help from God and Jesus than anyone.

[Asuryan]

 

 

Making the rain calm down a little at exactly the moment i prayed for is not powerful? (It happened again yesterday BTW.) Well, it is to me.

 

 

It should... but you still don't know why God is not answering our queries and the prayers you are doing on our behalf. And I don't know either.

It seems that god is really listening to you, if it actually exists, though. So, could you stop praying god for the rain to stop or similar things and instead put all of your prayer might into your praying for us? Just in case God is thinking that since he's making some of your prayers come true, he's not supposed to make all the others come true.

 

 

Please get ready to accept Him first. I do not think He wishes to force you. Ummm... maybe. I really don't know. Perhaps He has His own special way to persuade you.

 

My uncle died as an unbeliever. God didn't persuade him, it seems.

His death was sudden, an illness that hit the brain and killed him almost instantly. No time for a conversion.

Does this mean that he is now suffering in hell? (He was an homosexual and a proud atheist).

Why didn't god show himself unto my uncle before he died, so that he could be saved and go to heaven?

 

 

IF you read my sad, sorry story it was pretty horrific and violent. You have been a Catholic, then a Christian...

 

I have been a Catholic Christian. Or do you think that Catholics are not Christians?

 

Please... you know the answer already. Of course He wants you. In fact you will be a powerful testimony to glorify Him. But why not now? I don't know.

 

So he wants me, but didn't want my uncle?

Lots of people have died as atheists, without any sign or proof of god's existence, thus they should be roasting in hell, right? The point remains. They couldn't be testimonies or anything else for God.

If god exists and he didn't show himself to those people (and my uncle) knowing that they could be saved from hell if only they had received a clear sign from him... is he evil? Or he doesn't exist. Which one?

[white_raven23]

Making the rain calm down a little at exactly the moment i prayed for is not powerful? (It happened again yesterday BTW.) Well, it is to me.

 

Ah. And while you were keeping god busy with making the weather ideal for YOU. He was too busy to save the lives of twelve miners who you KNOW begged to god in the darkness for a long time before death took them.

 

Would you prefer to imagine they died instantly? Peacefully perhaps? You go on and do that. Don't forget to "miss" the coroner reports when they are released.

[Vixentrox]

Making the rain calm down a little at exactly the moment i prayed for is not powerful? (It happened again yesterday BTW.) Well, it is to me.

 

Ah. And while you were keeping god busy with making the weather ideal for YOU. He was too busy to save the lives of twelve miners who you KNOW begged to god in the darkness for a long time before death took them.

 

Would you prefer to imagine they died instantly? Peacefully perhaps? You go on and do that. Don't forget to "miss" the coroner reports when they are released.

Not to mention the thousands of people across the nation that were praying for the miners.

[Skankboy]

your description/explaination smacks of humans achieving godhood ~ not unlike Buddhism.

 

Personally, I find this assertion ignorant and a bit insulting Pug. What aspect of Buddhism

makes you think this is so?

 

[Open_Minded]

your description/explaination smacks of humans achieving godhood ~ not unlike Buddhism.

 

Personally, I find this assertion ignorant and a bit insulting Pug. What aspect of Buddhism

makes you think this is so?

 

 

Thanks Skankboy.... I was wondering if a Buddhist was going to jump in here and comment

[Antlerman]

God isn't making these things, which COULD and WILL convert us, happening.

Please get ready to accept Him first. I do not think He wishes to force you.

Pug! It's been forever since I've attempted to converse with you! I promise I'll be nice... after this:

 

"Please get ready to accept Him first"??? Are you saying we won’t believe unless we first believe??? Isn't this an absurd statement bordering on just plain stupid? Pug... "Unless you first believe that I, Antlerman, can move the stars in the heavens with the power of mind and my magic stick I found, you will never be convinced that I can, no matter what evidence I show you." WTF sort of reasonable way of thinking is that!?

 

Pug, we all wanted to believe. That's why we became Christians. We did believe. We no longer do. So, so much for being ready to accept Him, and by Him I mean you're definitions of God.

 

Next, He doesn't want to force us to believe? Ok fine, but that seems rather contradictory since He's going to force all of us into a blazing hell of burning eternal torture - in His mercy - because everything your church teaches is insanely irrational, and we in good conscience rejected it in pursuit of a more meaningful, fruitful existence! Not too logical is it? Ahhh, but fundamentalist faith isn't concerned about being reasonable, is it? It's about something other than spiritual life. Think about it Pug. We're not idiots and fools who are clueless around here.

 

I digress…

[Mythra]

Please... you know the answer already. Of course He wants you. In fact you will be a powerful testimony to glorify Him.

 

 

 

 

[Skankboy]

Thanks Skankboy.... I was wondering if a Buddhist was going to jump in here and comment

Thanks OM,

From what I've seen, every once in awhile Pug will throw something like this out there with no real explanation. Most of the time, I let it slide, but this is just so outside the realm of Buddhist thinking (at least in my experience) that I have to call him on it.

 

So Pug, what do you say?

[Asuryan]

Not to mention the thousands of people across the nation that were praying for the miners.

 

Well, look on the bright side: I'm sure that almost all of them, if not every single one of them, found a parking place that same day.

 

I would like Pug to grasp the difference between the rain calming down a bit or a parking place freeing up in front of you, and human lives endangered or people suffering. Why is he so quick to praise the first silly things as miracles, and so quick to dismiss the events about pain and death with a lazy "I don't know"?

 

It's okay to admit that you don't have all the answers, but I get the impression that Pug just stopped there. Stopped searching for those answers. He chose a myth to worship, and he's remixing "I don't know"s with "this is a miracle for sure"s.

Meaning... everything positive that happens to him is a miracle just because he chose it to be. And what gets on my nerves is how he is really convinced that god is making parking places appear in front of him and just ignoring dying and really suffering people.

 

It has no sense, but it doesn't seem that he's interested in finding a sense at all.

[Antlerman]

It has no sense, but it doesn't seem that he's interested in finding a sense at all.

It's too much work to do all at once. But hopefully seeds of reason will take hold and he will eventually feel a need to process them and incorporate them into his worldview. Why is really here, but to question? (Spoken in a moment of atypical optimism).

[Fweethawt]

Why is he so quick to praise the first silly things as miracles, and so quick to dismiss the events about pain and death with a lazy "I don't know"?

I'm not sure, but I think it has something to do with a little thing called Cognitive Dissonance.