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Brother Jeff

Things Fundies Say On Facebook

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Vahn, I have to agree. They're so busy trying to find something that allows them to prove the existence of God and his beneficial nature, but in the process they ignore the horrible realities of life. It's horribly selfish, and it's just a bunch of self-legitimizing on their part. Meanwhile, none seem to note the irony of claiming that God "intervened", but evidently chose to sit on his hands when other people were being shot at and being hurt both mentally and physically. Hell, ignoring the idea that God could have prevented the entire situation in the first place.

 

Instead, God allowed it to happen so he could "save" one of His own (talk about favoritism), even though ballistics wise the amount of books he had in his pack were enough to slow, then stop the bullet from reaching him and physics has a better explanation for this than some deity interfering.

 

I do have to say, it is a bit selfish for the first comment of a guy who survived being shot at is to splurge over how he survived and then say literally nothing (I'm not kidding, the original post says nothing about the other people who were wounded-it's almost like he thinks that no one else was shot at).

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Vahn, I have to agree. They're so busy trying to find something that allows them to prove the existence of God and his beneficial nature, but in the process they ignore the horrible realities of life. It's horribly selfish, and it's just a bunch of self-legitimizing on their part. Meanwhile, none seem to note the irony of claiming that God "intervened", but evidently chose to sit on his hands when other people were being shot at and being hurt both mentally and physically. Hell, ignoring the idea that God could have prevented the entire situation in the first place.

 

Instead, God allowed it to happen so he could "save" one of His own (talk about favoritism), even though ballistics wise the amount of books he had in his pack were enough to slow, then stop the bullet from reaching him and physics has a better explanation for this than some deity interfering.

 

I do have to say, it is a bit selfish for the first comment of a guy who survived being shot at is to splurge over how he survived and then say literally nothing (I'm not kidding, the original post says nothing about the other people who were wounded-it's almost like he thinks that no one else was shot at).

Or worse -- that there's a God that KNOWINGLY put it all into play, just so he can barely intervene, so people can believe in him lmfao. He couldn't come up with ANYTHING better to show proof, than to have others, killed with a few surviving. How barbaric is that?

 

The entire time, during the shooting, so many people were asking for prayers. Literally asking help from someone who knowingly put it in place, then thanking him for sparing some. God is almost like the Jigsaw killer from the Saw movie.

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I don't actually know the casualty figures. Last night, the shooter had been killed by the Police when he tried to engage them. One person was shot in the leg, but was okay. Another got off with a flesh wound. A third, however, was in critical condition. I don't know if they're alive.

 

It's horrifying how they see things. If miracles are dependent on human suffering and pain, I'd wish that we never had another "miracle".

 

I see no God in what happened. Only pain and fear and violence where some were luckier than others. If God chose to intervene only to save one person from harm and not the others, or chose not to prevent the shooting in the first place, then he cannot be a caring God.

 

If he has the power to prevent harm, then why didn't he?

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I don't actually know the casualty figures. Last night, the shooter had been killed by the Police when he tried to engage them. One person was shot in the leg, but was okay. Another got off with a flesh wound. A third, however, was in critical condition. I don't know if they're alive.

 

It's horrifying how they see things. If miracles are dependent on human suffering and pain, I'd wish that we never had another "miracle".

 

I see no God in what happened. Only pain and fear and violence where some were luckier than others. If God chose to intervene only to save one person from harm and not the others, or chose not to prevent the shooting in the first place, then he cannot be a caring God.

 

If he has the power to prevent harm, then why didn't he?

Because "he works in mysterious ways" lmfao At least that's the answer you will be given, from a Christian.

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I threw down the gauntlet today. I asked her to face the question if God didn't intervene at all, or he chose who to intercede with and decided not to for the rest. I then reminded her that her argument created the latter possibility, while my argument created the former(yeah, I played the theist to a degree. I don't want the cat out of the bag yet).

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Said over Messaging to me by the lady herself:

 

"God gives us trials. Maybe the other ones needed something to strengthen them or maybe shake them. Sometimes people need an abrupt push back into the path. If you don't believe you are entitled to your opinion. Then that also makes me wonder why you had your nose in a believers post in the first place. Are you curious? If you don't believe in God then who do you think created the earth. If you're into logistics and ballistics and evolutionary science that can be proved no one can prove the existence of the earth through science. It has to be repeated and proved theory to be true. No one has found this to be true.

 

"People always want to blame God and say why would God do this and why would God do that. Why wouldn't God save all of us. Why would God give this person cancer. Why would God let this person die or this baby die. I know that God gives us trials to make us stronger and Paris for the end that's coming and the battles that we will have to win. When that time comes all the struggles and battles he has put us through he has prepared us for that one major battle. No knows the exact reasons why God does what he does but he knows and he's knows what's good for us. You would have to ask him to get the answers you seek."

 

My response:

 

"Ma'am, I grew up in ICOC all of my life. What I'm merely doing is stating simple theology and logic that is being ignored.

 

First, these trials. They're not logical, if not horrifically cruel. God is one of "hesed". That's a Hebrew word for "love", specifically that of Yahweh. God, therefore, never does anything that would harm one of his chosen people, but benefit them. With the arrival of Christ to the scene, all of mankind can now become a part of said chosen people. It is against God's better interests, if he truly is a God of hesed, to kill people who aren't converted. Those people, according to the Bible, go to hell, the complete antithesis of hesed. Why, then, would God create "trials" that killed indiscriminately and damned anyone unfortunate enough to not already be baptized to hell when they fell? It's not logical, and despite the mantra of "God's ways are higher than ours", it isn't so. God's endgame is to have as many to live in His rest, and it is expressly against that goal to have these trials. Therefore, said "trials" are not of God and his hesed. If you're going to quote Job, do remember that it was the Devil that did the actual damage; God only allowed it to happen and restored Job afterward. Beyond that, God did not directly "try" Job.

 

Second, the idea that the earth's existence cannot be scientifically proven. I cannot begin to express how scientifically incorrect that statement is. Not only have we been able to pinpoint the start of the universe in the Big Bang billions, if not trillions, of years ago. Beyond that, the formation of the solar system has been scientifically proven, the growth and evolution of life has been proven, and all of these are well recorded. To explain quickly for the creation of the Earth; after the Big Bang, matter dispersed around the universe. In our system, some of that matter collected itself over millennia to become a star, and the gravitational field of the Sun would clump the remaining matter in the system into protoplanets. Said protoplanets would cool from hot masses of minerals and form natural orbits around the Sun. The Earth was lucky enough to form within a small "green zone" where the radiation of the sun was enough to make the perfect conditions for life, which eventually formed from single-cell life and spread. All of this has been scientifically proven again and again, and the fossil record supports it."

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Her final message (supposedly):

 

"Lol this just makes me laugh at the ignorance. God did kill off everyone who disobeyed him in the flood but saved Noah and his family and the animals. That is just one instance of God's wrath. God is a just and jealous God. There is no God but him. So I'm done with this conversation. Unless you have questions biblically. Not scientific rubbish. I'll gladly respond. You can even come to church. Science has its place on earth because God put it there in the brain he created for man's use. But science has no part in the creation of earth. Look, plain and simple. If I'm wrong I'm only wrong here on earth. But if your wrong you are wrong for eternity and damned to Hell. :-) look at it how you would like."

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Her final message (supposedly):

 

"Lol this just makes me laugh at the ignorance. God did kill off everyone who disobeyed him in the flood but saved Noah and his family and the animals. That is just one instance of God's wrath. God is a just and jealous God. There is no God but him. So I'm done with this conversation. Unless you have questions biblically. Not scientific rubbish. I'll gladly respond. You can even come to church. Science has its place on earth because God put it there in the brain he created for man's use. But science has no part in the creation of earth. Look, plain and simple. If I'm wrong I'm only wrong here on earth. But if your wrong you are wrong for eternity and damned to Hell. :-) look at it how you would like."

Breaking out Pascal's wager. Classic. Except what if she is serving the wrong god? Then she is wrong for eternity and condemned to hell as well (possibly). Hope she looks at it how she likes too...

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She's gotten more civil and I'm explaining to her (literally the first person I've explained my reasons to aside from my closest friend. That's probably odd) why I left Christianity (spoiler: Historical data is gold).

 

I doubt I'll convince her of anything, but since we've evolved past Pascal's Wager and name calling, there's a chance some kind of common ground can be reached.

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Her final message (supposedly):

 

"Lol this just makes me laugh at the ignorance. God did kill off everyone who disobeyed him in the flood but saved Noah and his family and the animals. That is just one instance of God's wrath. God is a just and jealous God. There is no God but him. So I'm done with this conversation. Unless you have questions biblically. Not scientific rubbish. I'll gladly respond. You can even come to church. Science has its place on earth because God put it there in the brain he created for man's use. But science has no part in the creation of earth. Look, plain and simple. If I'm wrong I'm only wrong here on earth. But if your wrong you are wrong for eternity and damned to Hell. :-) look at it how you would like."

Very Christ like of her, to end her paragraph with a threat.
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I missed the threat bit, but I did zoom in on the "ignorant" thing.

 

And now I might be helping proofread her history essay, should she send it.

 

Things are weird around here.

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I missed the threat bit, but I did zoom in on the "ignorant" thing.

 

And now I might be helping proofread her history essay, should she send it.

 

Things are weird around here.

Telling someone to have fun is hell is indeed a thread.

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I don't actually know the casualty figures. Last night, the shooter had been killed by the Police when he tried to engage them. One person was shot in the leg, but was okay. Another got off with a flesh wound. A third, however, was in critical condition. I don't know if they're alive.

 

[snip]

 

If he has the power to prevent harm, then why didn't he?

 

This is very much like the Bibilical god. The book of Exodus portrays a god who causes immense suffering and gratuitous death because he wants to show off. It says right in the book of Exodus that he deliberately hardened Pharaoh's heart to prevent him from letting the Israelites go, specifically so that he can show off. The god of christianity needs to allow pain and suffering, otherwise, how else can he come to the rescue and show us how great he is?

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Oh, I have to agree. It's horrific this idea that they think that human misery must come before any miracle is below the bar.

 

If you read my response to her, I counter her with very legitimate Christian theology that I have learned from college courses on the subject matter (know thy enemy... Although truthfully, I started the classes a believer. Ironic, isn't it?). Her response is to call me ignorant (technically, she says that I'm displaying "ignorance", but in later conversation she literally does not understand that calling someone's argument ignorant is the same as calling them ignorant. I didn't even realize stupid came in that color), and to counter by showing an extremely violent and jealous God as her champion.

 

Not the Christian God of Love and Hesed (which I doubt very few people in ICOC even know exists in the Christian tradition) from the New Testament.

 

The brutal, horrific God of the Old Testament. She literally cites the Flood as some buffer to her argument.

 

I told her face up; I told her that trying to argue the way she did wasn't going to win anyone's hearts or minds. And pretty bloody obviously, popping Pascal's Wager almost immediately doesn't help at all either.

 

I swear to God, these people are stupid sometimes. Or all the time.

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Oh, just to bump, she wants to work in the medical field.

 

And doesn't acknowledge basic scientific fact when it comes to the history of the universe.

 

Yeah, maybe it's not specifically relevant to her medical hopes, but... If she denies something as elementary as this (oh, and said that man simply "made [the evidence] all up" when I gave her very good historical reasons for leaving Christianity), who knows what else she ignores in the name of an Iron-age God.

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Oh, just to bump, she wants to work in the medical field.

 

And doesn't acknowledge basic scientific fact when it comes to the history of the universe.

 

Yeah, maybe it's not specifically relevant to her medical hopes, but... If she denies something as elementary as this (oh, and said that man simply "made [the evidence] all up" when I gave her very good historical reasons for leaving Christianity), who knows what else she ignores in the name of an Iron-age God.

 

Disregarding science for religion is probably pretty common in the medical field, despite the fact that the medical field is built on science. I have a sister-in-law who's an RN and believes in young earth creationism. I suspect that my RN neighbor does too (she's a conservative Christian who seems to fit that mold). I think they're both good RNs, though.

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Oh, just to bump, she wants to work in the medical field.

 

And doesn't acknowledge basic scientific fact when it comes to the history of the universe.

 

Yeah, maybe it's not specifically relevant to her medical hopes, but... If she denies something as elementary as this (oh, and said that man simply "made [the evidence] all up" when I gave her very good historical reasons for leaving Christianity), who knows what else she ignores in the name of an Iron-age God.

Disregarding science for religion is probably pretty common in the medical field, despite the fact that the medical field is built on science. I have a sister-in-law who's an RN and believes in young earth creationism. I suspect that my RN neighbor does too (she's a conservative Christian who seems to fit that mold). I think they're both good RNs, though.

 

 

I work with clinicians everyday. Some are batshit crazy with religion. I have met zero that use religion over their training when on the clock or people would die plain and simple and they would lose their job. Thankfully most hospital admins and nurse managers are smart enough even if they believe to use science at work and leave god for gossip and forceful ministering to their coworkers...

 

 

oh and young earth creationism is just painfully stupid. Millions of years of geological evidence makes them look like clowns. 6000 years eh? I know a few people in my department who think the earth is only 6000 years old??? There are cave drawings older than 10000 years and yet they just can't accept the material physical proof staring them in the face. I can promise if the sky opens one day and a bearded wonder comes streaming down to earth with the powe to raise the dead with a nod I will take a second look at the physical evidence staring me in the face. As it is their evidence has never shown up while the evidence for the opposite is everywhere around us on earth and in our known universe.

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oh and young earth creationism is just painfully stupid. Millions of years of geological evidence makes them look like clowns. 6000 years eh? I know a few people in my department who think the earth is only 6000 years old??? There are cave drawings older than 10000 years and yet they just can't accept the material physical proof staring them in the face. I can promise if the sky opens one day and a bearded wonder comes streaming down to earth with the powe to raise the dead with a nod I will take a second look at the physical evidence staring me in the face. As it is their evidence has never shown up while the evidence for the opposite is everywhere around us on earth and in our known universe.

 

 

Ah, but then it will be TOO LATE!!  Jesus will have caught you with your pants down, and then he just won't want to know, bro.

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Can I say that "caught with your pants down" and "he won't want to know" are extremely suggestive?

 

...

 

At least to me. Maybe not all of you are as dirty-minded.

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Jesus will have caught you with your pants down

And Jesus might just enjoy that a bit too much! ;)

 

EDIT: I see FW stole my thunder.

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If a God were truly all-loving -- then it would never be too late.

 

Just another reason Christianity is bullshit.

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Bit of a compilation:

 

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oh and young earth creationism is just painfully stupid. Millions of years of geological evidence makes them look like clowns. 6000 years eh? I know a few people in my department who think the earth is only 6000 years old??? There are cave drawings older than 10000 years and yet they just can't accept the material physical proof staring them in the face. I can promise if the sky opens one day and a bearded wonder comes streaming down to earth with the powe to raise the dead with a nod I will take a second look at the physical evidence staring me in the face. As it is their evidence has never shown up while the evidence for the opposite is everywhere around us on earth and in our known universe.

 

 

Ah, but then it will be TOO LATE!!  Jesus will have caught you with your pants down, and then he just won't want to know, bro.

 

 

well when i was a kid I remember my parents church felt that there would be a time of forgiveness after the return for like 7 years or some shit so I still have a shot I just have to live through the rapture and then the aftermath... lol I am so glad that I can just live and die and totally discount all of this trash. Frankly I am bored to death with talking to these morons after 30 years of watching anything but reason sway their thinking.

 

Fuck people who dismiss science out of hand for anything religious. They hurt us all in the long run.

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My older sister is constantly posting hoaxes as fact on FB. I don't debunk these publicly but send her a private message asking her if she fact checked her post which usually ends up with her deleting her post.

 

This morning she posted some praise Jesus picture. I messaged her and asked if she fact checked it before posting and then told her I was just giving her a hard time. She responded that she doesn't see a need to fact check it.

 

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