Pretend Judgement Day Were to Actually Happen...

[Eponymic]

Can you imagine being bitch-slapped by a God???  That would hurt!!

 

Would knock some religion into,

 

and cause internal bleeding throughout 96.4% of your body.

[Eponymic]

Can you imagine being bitch-slapped by a God???  That would hurt!!

You would think so. However, We bitchslap you people all of the time but Our hands just pass right through you. Just because you can't see Us, doesn't mean we aren't bitchslapping you.

105738[/snapback]

 

Just means you're not very good at it.

[Antlerman]

My teacher initially challenged all our previous religous beliefs, so that we didn't know what to believe!    I had a remarkable old teacher. He knew initially I didn't want to be there... long story. (hehe) My teacher would of loved these people on this site, had he lived long enough for me to tell him about you all.    He liked to stir things up, yet always said reason and truth go hand and hand. I really miss him.

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You are fortunate to have had a teacher who challenged your religious conceptions that way. Tragically, like Daniel, our teachers wanted the beliefs of the students to be uniform in understanding: 'this is what this means and here's why'. This is why hearing Daniel propping up his views with the typical battery of verses tastes so utterly sour to me. I know just how huge of an error that is; how closed minded; how arrogant to presume they can know definitively anything from any ancient piece of literature, far removed from it's original culture, language, history, etc.

 

It is the absolute height of human arrogance to presume to know what is meant --- and then to judge and condemn your fellow humans because they disagree with you - not disagree with the bible per se, but again disagree with you. That is what is so distasteful about fundamentalist Christians. It is insulting to our intelligence, when in most cases the people they are addressing have a hell of a lot more mileage under their belts than they do. It is like the know-it-all attitude of a 13 year old, except they are adults now.

 

The irony of this? It's like having a buffoon in a clown suit speaking with a 3rd grade level English, trying to sell you an expensive life insurance policy that you are committed contractually to pay for the rest of your entire life. Then when we say we are not interested in buying it from them, they call us bad names and say we're going into suffer in hell for all eternity! Now to me, that's irony.

[Amethyst]

The sin that will not be pardoned... blaspheming the Holy Spirit... denying Christ.

 

Then why are you wasting your time here, as well as ours? We are lost, as you said yourself. Go preach to someone who cares.

[Amanda]

What sin has anyone committed here?

 

The sin that will not be pardoned... blaspheming the Holy Spirit... denying Christ. All other sins will be forgiven, but they are pivoting on the one that will not be forgiven... faith in Christ. If one does not have faith in Christ, the rest swing in the balance, and the wrath of God hangs over that man.

105639[/snapback]

 

Hi Daniel!

 

I think blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is actually different than denying Christ.

 

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever * * speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever * * speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

Daniel, may I ask you to consider what is the Holy Spirit? Perhaps the 'Holy Spirit' is what is to be held sacred... being kind, merciful, strength under a gentle nature, loving, compassionate, helps the oppressed, tempers the arrogant, helps those in need, cares for those less fortunate, truthful, integrity...

 

Daniel, can't you see that these people on this site hold high regards for that? I think the intentions of your heart is love too. Yet condemnation is blasphemy...

 

Blasphemy is condemnation, here is its definition, and please note how it has evolved:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/...988&version=kjv

 

I'm curious to know if maybe one who condemns those that uphold these virtues of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

 

*Jesus only condemned those that condemn.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need * not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

[daniel_1012]

EDITED:

 

There were some major typos that needed corrected.

 

I think blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is actually different than denying Christ.

 

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever * * speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever * * speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

Perhaps the 'Holy Spirit' is what is to be held sacred... being kind, merciful, strength under a gentle nature, loving, compassionate, helps the oppressed, tempers the arrogant, helps those in need, cares for those less fortunate, truthful, integrity...

 

The Holy Spirit will lead into those things... but the Holy Spirit *is not* those things. The Holy Spirit is a real thing, the Spirit of God. It both convicts men to do good, and lives withing them (for those that have recieved Christ). Those men that are merely convicted into righteousness, but never receive him because they are to self-righteous to do so, and deny Christ, those men will not be indwelled with Him. Being given the Holy Spirit is something only Christians get... when they believe in Christ. Being influenced to do good, does not mean you are righteous... we are saved by grace, not by works.

 

Daniel, can't you see that these people on this site hold high regards for that? I think the intentions of your heart is love too. Yet condemnation is blasphemy...

 

A) No, I can't see that actually, because that doesn't happen. You have kissed the enemy for a bribe. You have sarfaficed truth for a false love. Once again, if your definition of condemnation is blasphemy, then Jesus committed blasphemy. So which is it... do you admit what I am saying is right, or do you contend Jesus was blasphemer? It is one of the other, and you must choose.

 

Blasphemy is condemnation, here is its definition, and please note how it has evolved:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/...988&version=kjv

 

Jesus commited blasphemy then.

 

I'm curious to know if maybe one who condemns those that uphold these virtues of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

 

You're curious because you don't believe the Word of God, and you expand on it well beyond what has been clearly said. There are many things, thank God, that He didn't speak in some dark quiet place... but has clearly said to us.

*Jesus only condemned those that condemn.

 

A) That's not true.

 

B.) What is your point, considering all I have done is preached Christ cruicified, and testified of men needing a savior. You continue to misuse the word condemn, and it's clear to me it is a word you don't understand.

 

C.) "Jesus only condemned those that condemn is once again," based on nothing, and actually contridicts what Jesus said.

 

Our words will condemn us, though be it unspecific to what words. Obviously saying Jesus only condemns those that "condemn" is based on nothing. Also, if that is true... Jesus condemned Himself. He made judgments about all things, and told men the very same... without HIM they were condemned.

 

Mat 12:37

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

John 3:18-21

 

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

Jesus, speaking of Himself coming into the world to die, refers to Himself (the Word of God in the flesh) was light. Men to no receive Him, and why? Jesus said, it is because they're deeds are evil... and they cowar and hide, rather than being honest. So, for the sake my taking Jesus words over yours Amanda, I'm going to have to agree with Him. You can't convince me of the wonderful righteousness of other men (once again, atheists and those who denounce Christ are the *truly* self-righteous men, depending on their own goodness to save them -- SELF RIGHTEOUS) because you see here, Jesus says the reason men don't come to Him, the light, is because their deeds are evil.

 

 

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.  7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.  8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.  9 But as touching brotherly love ye need * not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

 

You left out verse 5, Amanda. Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

 

Gentiles are non Jew... non Christians. Those who have not been saved. Paul is writting to the *church* whereby he is both A) not talking about those outside the church when he refers to the love we have for *one another and for God*, and B.) Actually seperates quite intentionally the two, with the verse you left out.

 

Lord rebuke you Amanda. Stop dealing with the philosophy you have created, and go back to the WORD which came from His mouth, and the mouth of the prophets.

[euphgeek]

What sin has anyone committed here?

 

The sin that will not be pardoned... blaspheming the Holy Spirit... denying Christ. All other sins will be forgiven, but they are pivoting on the one that will not be forgiven... faith in Christ. If one does not have faith in Christ, the rest swing in the balance, and the wrath of God hangs over that man.

105639[/snapback]

 

Hi Daniel!

 

I think blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is actually different than denying Christ.

 

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever * * speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever * * speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

Daniel, may I ask you to consider what is the Holy Spirit? Perhaps the 'Holy Spirit' is what is to be held sacred... being kind, merciful, strength under a gentle nature, loving, compassionate, helps the oppressed, tempers the arrogant, helps those in need, cares for those less fortunate, truthful, integrity...

 

Daniel, can't you see that these people on this site hold high regards for that? I think the intentions of your heart is love too. Yet condemnation is blasphemy...

 

Blasphemy is condemnation, here is its definition, and please note how it has evolved:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/...988&version=kjv

 

I'm curious to know if maybe one who condemns those that uphold these virtues of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

 

*Jesus only condemned those that condemn.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 9 But as touching brotherly love ye need * not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

105800[/snapback]

 

Amanda, though I "prefer" you loving kindess over Daniel, IMHO you are both wrong. In the bible, context of blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is when Jesus is accused by the Pharisees of being Satan...

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It doesn't sound like you're disagreeing with Amanda too much, just over some semantic interpretation. My interpretation of blaspheming the holy spirit, or rather the interpretation I agree with, is calling something good evil. Something a lot of fundies do when they say that everyone who isn't a fundie worships Satan. Or when they call a profound experience that leads a person away from fundamentalism "of the devil".

 

Rereading the whole thing, I think all three of us are basically saying the same thing.

[Amanda]

It is the absolute height of human arrogance to presume to know what is meant --- and then to judge and condemn your fellow humans because they disagree with you - not disagree with the bible per se, but again disagree with you.  That is what is so distasteful about fundamentalist Christians. 

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Antlerman, my teacher had a philosophy I hope I have adopted also: "I don't want to be right, I just want to know the truth." Many people here have taught me sooo much, refining my belief in God. It has only caused my perception of God and Christ to become much more meaningful! It isn't to say that my foundations haven't been shaken a bit, yet they seem to have settled more solidly.

It is insulting to our intelligence, when in most cases the people they are addressing have a hell of a lot more mileage under their belts than they do. 

105786[/snapback]

It seems to me, as I've come to realize this now... that the belief in an eternal punishment in an eternal torturous manner, is quite subconsciously driven to exasperation more than most of you understand. If one really, really believes 'that'... think of the implications! And I suppose they have a right to their beliefs also, if they would just present it and their support for it... and let it stand on its own merit without threatening or demeaning others.. I think it would be ok.

 

I do think that it is the deep rooted good intentions of their heart to try to 'save' us too, by whatever means possible. They have to maintain their arrogant stand because the consequences of slipping even an inch are just too disasterous. I really think Daniel feels he is playing with fire just to hopefully grab as many of us as possible into eternal safety. The only thing I have a real problem with is the degrading mindset which they unknowingly cause so much devastating distruction in people's lives.

[euphgeek]

Lord rebuke you Amanda.  Stop dealing with the philosophy you have created, and go back to the WORD which came from His mouth, and the mouth of the prophets.

105808[/snapback]

Daniel, stop being so arrogant. You do not have all the answers, so stop pretending you do. There are theologians who have studied the Bible a lot more than you have, and many disagree with most of what you are saying. The Bible was not written in 20th century English, so you cannot attest to what God "clearly said". Even if you did know the original language, you still did not live in those times, so you can't be sure exactly what is meant by the words. All you can do is follow what you believe in your heart to be the correct interpretation, just like those of us who see the truth of the Bible do.

 

Criticizing someone else's heart is the same as judging them, Daniel. And Jesus forbade that in Matthew 7:1.

[Amanda]

The Holy Spirit will lead into those things... but the Holy Spirit *is not* those things. 

105808[/snapback]

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel... then can't you see that maybe these fruits are more evident in the lives here than in some of those with 'fundamental' thinking? Just maybe?

You have kissed the enemy for a bribe.

105808[/snapback]

Respectfully, I had to laugh when I read that! What bribe?

 

They don't accept my beliefs either! They may respect me because I respect them. You could keep your beliefs, and if you gave respect.. you'd get respect too. It's that easy. Didn't you know there are many 'Christians' that participate and are welcomed here? Some have chosen another label because they don't want to be associated with what that label has sadly come to symbolize... the condemning religous right. *sigh*

You're curious because you don't believe the Word of God, and you expand on it well beyond what has been clearly said.  There are many things, thank God, that He didn't speak in some dark quiet place... but has clearly said to us.

105808[/snapback]

Daniel, I'm curious because I don't think I am God and know! No one knows for sure, but God. I stated an opinion as a human being, not authoritatively as if I am God. That's all. I don't think you are God either, and I dare guess that these people here don't see you or I as God.

*Jesus only condemned those that condemn.

 

A) That's not true.

105808[/snapback]

OK, give me an example of Jesus condemning anyone personally other than the religous right.

Mat 12:37

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

105808[/snapback]

Judge not lest ye be judged. This could very well be about the fundamentalist attitudes toward others. Think about it. It seems to me, my friend, if one really believed in Jesus, one would not condemn, one would not judge condescendingly.

Lord rebuke you Amanda. 

105808[/snapback]

Daniel, Wayne Dyer says:

What do you get when you squeeze an orange?

Orange juice.

Why?

Because that's what's inside.

 

Daniel, it looks to me like you have this great war going on inside you against everyone but perhaps a handful of people. I sincerely hope for your sake, and others, it will someday soon pass and be replaced with something more loving and joyful.

[All Gods Fail]

So why is it unforgivable to blaspheme the holy spirit, but not Jesus or the father? I never understood that even when I was a xtian. Are the son/father less holy? I thought they were all the same entity.

[daniel_1012]

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel... then can't you see that maybe these fruits are more evident in the lives here than in some of those with 'fundamental' thinking? Just maybe?

 

No, I can't... in fact, discussing God's righteousness and way by which men must be saved, doesn't directly speak of my fruits. So far, my "fruits" are those that say men must be saved, and Christ died for sinner. Fundamental thinking, truly, must by default produce far more fruit that the lives here... because by default, a fundamental mind is fundamentally based on the fundamental teachings of Christ which say to do good to those who hate you, love those that curse you, forgive the unforgivable that you may be forgiven -- produce works worthy of repentace, as I believe John wrote. Far be it for a professing Christian to think a man without Christ, can actually produce those fruits moreso than a man who is truly fundamentally secure in His teachings. Be that as it may, I won't defend my own works... but if you assume they are unfruitful, that is an assumption based on the fact I vehementally disagree with your actions here... and the Christ rejecting state of those who have OPENLY rejected Christ. A fundamental person abased in Christ, will produce much fruit... far more than a person who rejects Christ -- Jesus said, apart from me you can do nothing. That being so, atheists will find they produced zero fruit here on earth because apart from God... a man can do nothing. Only by the sacrafice of God in Christ, which has made us clean, will our works or can our works be fruitful. This is what I believe, because I'm quite sure that is what the Bible teaches.

 

Respectfully, I had to laugh when I read that! What bribe?   

 

hey don't accept my beliefs either! They may respect me because I respect them. You could keep your beliefs, and if you gave respect.. you'd get respect too. It's that easy.

 

The bribe, *is* respect. Because you wish to be respected, you have accepted a bribe. Rather than speak what God has spoken, you speak that which will remain "respectful," and attain you respect. That you have done, I don't disagree, but that is the bribe. You just admitted it. You have been bribed with respect, and you have taken the bribe. Rather than stand up for what Christ actually said, and say that men are in DIAR need of repentance, and a savior... you preach and speak to please men, with an unauthoritative (which you accuse me guilty of, but I'm just preaching the gospel) voice. I openly make this judgment, and I say it without the slightest fear of contridiction... in fact you have admitted it just now. It offers them an option... an idea, that maybe this is what God has said... maybe this won't happen to me. You were offered respect, if you would sacrafice the truth or Word of God (which it is or it is not, you have to decide), and you took from the tree and ate it. If this is condemning, then may it only be for awhile... if what I say makes you or other people angry or sad, good, if it would only be for awhile. For the law of God is meant to drive men to repentance... which oddly enough, so is His goodness I suppose.

 

Didn't you know there are many 'Christians' that participate and are welcomed here? Some have chosen another label because they don't want to be associated with what that label has sadly come to symbolize... the condemning religous right. *sigh* 

 

To each their own then, as it is.

 

Daniel, I'm curious because I don't think I am God and know! No one knows for sure, but God. I stated an opinion as a human being, not authoritatively as if I am God. That's all. I don't think you are God either, and I dare guess that these people here don't see you or I as God. 

 

Amanda, you don't have to be curious on all things. There are some things which scripture is not clear on, but it is not that which we debate here. What we debate is eternity, judgment, and the coming of Christ... the authority of Christ, and the possition of Christ... a round about way of, who is Christ really? There are things I am curious on to... and perhaps we will discuss something Christians are normally curious about. However, I don't think the need for men to repent is one of them, nor is the need for a savior. NEED.

 

OK, give me an example of Jesus condemning anyone personally other than the religous right.

 

I did... Jesus said you are *condemned ALREADY* because you have not believed in the one and only son of God. Didn't you read that? Jesus said, that those who obey the truth come into the light, that their evil deeds might be exposed. Jesus said, if a man doesn't do this (anyone who rejects Christ) they are condemned already.

 

As far as love goes... these are only words, in which I stand up for the faith. I do not believe a person can easily show love, accept that you consider "respect" to be love... which I do not. I will respect a person by telling them their need for a savior. This is afterall, just a forum online where we come to discuss. I can speak of God's grace, His law, and Christ's sacrifice. You have convinced yourself that not telling someone exactly what the Bible says, is respectful... you are convinced you can't know what God said... I disagree with both. I believe the Bible, and Christ, and the apostles were quite clear on the fundamental truths I am debating here. I will not accept a man's bribe, offering me respect, because I don't preach to please men... I preach to please God.

 

I am going to post the entire first chapter of Galatians, if you care to read I will try and bold face what indeed I feel applies here... but it is all inclusive, one part to the other... anyways, here is what Paul wrote. I want you to notice, before Paul "condemns" in the same way I have condemned thoughts or actions here... he begins by saying he means grace by Christ. He knows that the only way to be truly gracious, is share truth with people... and not pervert the word of God for respect.

 

Gal 1

1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

21 Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;

22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:

23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

24 And they glorified God in me.

 

Paul spoke with authority, and he didn't accept the bribe of respect from men... He knew God's word was of greater value than any man's bribe, of respect. He was persecuted greatly for that.

[Cerise]

No, I can't... in fact, discussing God's righteousness and way by which men must be saved, doesn't directly speak of my fruits.  So far, my "fruits" are those that say men must be saved, and Christ died for sinner.  Fundamental thinking, truly, must by default produce far more fruit that the lives here... because by default, a fundamental mind is fundamentally based on the fundamental teachings of Christ which say to do good to those who hate you, love those that curse you, forgive the unforgivable that you may be forgiven -- produce works worthy of repentace, as I believe John wrote.  Far be it for a professing Christian to think a man without Christ, can actually produce those fruits moreso than a man who is truly fundamentally secure in His teachings.  Be that as it may, I won't defend my own works... but if you assume they are unfruitful, that is an assumption based on the fact I vehementally disagree with your actions here... and the Christ rejecting state of those who have OPENLY rejected Christ.  A fundamental person abased in Christ, will produce much fruit... far more than a person who rejects Christ -- Jesus said, apart from me you can do nothing.  That being so, atheists will find they produced zero fruit here on earth because apart from God... a man can do nothing.  Only by the sacrafice of God in Christ, which has made us clean, will our works or can our works be fruitful.  This is what I believe, because I'm quite sure that is what the Bible teaches.

 

The bible teaches whatever you want it to teach, daniel. It is a versitile little bit of fiction. But I am curious...just how many people here do you think you have helped with your "fruits" anyway? Just how many have you drawn towards your Christ?

 

Conversely, just how many do you suppose you have driven away from your Christ with your "fruits" here? Do you think the number balances out?

 

I openly make this judgment, and I say it without the slightest fear of contridiction... in fact you have admitted it just now.  It offers them an option... an idea, that maybe this is what God has said... maybe this won't happen to me.  You were offered respect, if you would sacrafice the truth or Word of God (which it is or it is not, you have to decide), and you took from the tree and ate it.  If this is condemning, then may it only be for awhile... if what I say makes you or other people angry or sad, good, if it would only be for awhile.  For the law of God is meant to drive men to repentance... which oddly enough, so is His goodness I suppose.

 

How many do you suppose have you driven to repentance here? Or ever, in fact? You speak as if you were a god in your own mind. No one will repent to you daniel. You are not a god.

 

I will not accept a man's bribe, offering me respect, because I don't preach to please men... I preach to please God.

 

You preach to please yourself. We all see your arrogance. Lucifer could rival you for it.

 

I am going to post the entire first chapter of Galatians, if you care to read I will try and bold face what indeed I feel applies here... but it is all inclusive, one part to the other... anyways, here is what Paul wrote.  I want you to notice, before Paul "condemns" in the same way I have condemned thoughts or actions here... he begins by saying he means grace by Christ.  He knows that the only way to be truly gracious, is share truth with people... and not pervert the word of God for respect.

 

Paul also had supreme arrogance, like you. He believed he was a god in his own head. He found he could adjust God's words so that they meant what he wanted them to mean, just like you and every christian from the beginning.

[daniel_1012]

No one will repent to you daniel.

 

I, sure as hell, hope not. Repent to God, not me.

[Guest Guest]

No one will repent to you daniel.

 

I, sure as hell, hope not. Repent to God, not me.

105879[/snapback]

 

Which god? You have yet to prove that your god is real. It's the Christians' word against other religious peoples' word. Yours is no more "real" to me than yours. Have you went through ALL the world religions for yourself, line by line, verse by verse, proof by proof? Or do you just stick with Christianity because you have drawn your own conclusions that it is right?

[Ouroboros]

What sin has anyone committed here?

 

The sin that will not be pardoned... blaspheming the Holy Spirit... denying Christ. All other sins will be forgiven, but they are pivoting on the one that will not be forgiven... faith in Christ. If one does not have faith in Christ, the rest swing in the balance, and the wrath of God hangs over that man.

105639[/snapback]

And you have very likely blasphemed the Holy Spirit too.

 

Everytime you tell someone that they were not "True Christiant™", you are in danger of blashpeme the Holy Spirits work.

 

Let's say that one, just one, of the people on this site actually did work for the Holy Spirit you believe in. Then they did works of the Holy Spirit, and you claim they didn't. You claim they were not true Christians, meaning their works were by man and not by God. By doing so, you have condemned yourself Daniel. Because you can not know who you are judging, or what actions and works they have done.

[daniel_1012]

No one will repent to you daniel.

 

I, sure as hell, hope not. Repent to God, not me.

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Which god? You have yet to prove that your god is real. It's the Christians' word against other religious peoples' word. Yours is no more "real" to me than yours. Have you went through ALL the world religions for yourself, line by line, verse by verse, proof by proof? Or do you just stick with Christianity because you have drawn your own conclusions that it is right?

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Daniel, I'm not going to bother you anymore...you have refused time and again to answer these questions that show just how hypocritical you are, until you ANSWER and not give the run-around, I'm through with you. I KNOW you will not be disappointed but just wanted to let you know that if you direct me in a post, "why" I will not even bother replying. You need to tell us WHY, WE CANNOT USE the same reasons you REJECT other religions, to reject yours.

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Christ rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven. There is nothing I can tell you that would not, at the point of salvation, require faith.

 

Do not seek understanding so that you might believe. Believe, so that you might attain understanding.

[Dhampir]

Do not seek understanding so that you might believe. Believe, so that you might attain understanding.

Basically, you're saying that one must start with the conclusion, and then accept only the evidence that leads to that conclusion?

[Mythra]

Daniel, I'm not going to bother you anymore...you have refused time and again to answer these questions that show just how hypocritical you are, until you ANSWER and not give the run-around, I'm through with you.  I KNOW you will not be disappointed but just wanted to let you know that if you direct me in a post, "why" I will not even bother replying.  You need to tell us WHY, WE CANNOT USE the same reasons you REJECT other religions, to reject yours.

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He won't answer you, Serenity. Because he can't answer you. He's been asked a thousand times. Prove it. And, if you can't prove it, at least give us a legitimate reason to believe you.

 

And, we always come to the same answer. The bible is God's Word. Jesus died for your sins. You are headed to hell because you think the wrong things.

 

I'm getting a little weary of the whole charade.

[Amethyst]

Basically, you're saying that one must start with the conclusion, and then accept only the evidence that leads to that conclusion?

 

Apparently so.

 

OTOH, I started going through all the evidence on both sides, and came to the only logical conclusion I could: that it's a cult, just like all the rest. If anyone really examines the evidence, thoroughly examines and studies it, they will eventually come to that conclusion. They may lie to themselves for a while longer, or ignore it as long as they can, but eventually they won't be able to ignore the big white elephant any more.

 

It's just another cult. That is the white elephant in the living room that nobody wants to see, and a lot of people aren't going to see because they don't want to see it.

 

They don't want to realize that they were dumb enough to fall for it. Well, when you're a little kid and dragged to church by your parents, you don't have much of a choice. You trust your parents, so you believe them. That's not dumb, it's just human. But there has to come a point when you are no longer a child, and no longer believe in childish things.

 

Many adults still choose to believe in childish things because I think they are scared of actually being an adult and accepting rationality, so they hold onto the teddy bear that is religion. Well, when your teddy bear has glowing red eyes, claws, and fangs, why would you want to hold onto it??? I wouldn't and I don't.

[Kuroikaze]

Daniel clearly has a HUGE martyer martyr complex. He is so sure we are out to get him.

 

and by the way dan.

Do not seek understanding so that you might believe. Believe, so that you might attain understanding.

 

You have just summed up why I hate the christian belief system, and any belief system that requires you to stop thinking for yourself, thats what I really hate about christianity, thanks for helping me to realize that. Not every religion in the world is like this, some encourage free thought, those I have no problem with. And if you REALLY think that have followed Jesus advice to love those who hate you and do good to those who curse you, while on this site, you obviusly don't even read what you write.

 

This is the last response I'm even going to bother writing to you, not because I hate you, but because you are obviously in a place in your life where you cannnot understand anything we say. You honestly sound a lot like I was when I was 19 or so. Self assured and arrogant. Even most christians, after getting out in the real world and living a bit. temper there ideas a bit to fit reality. Come back in a few years when you've grown up and maybe I can have an inteligient conversation with you....until then I'm done.

 

 

P.S. I can't believe I just had to tell someone to grow up....I'm only 27....Damn I feel old sometimes.

[Amethyst]

P.S. I can't believe I just had to tell someone to grow up....I'm only 27....Damn I feel old sometimes.

 

You're not old. If 27 were old, than I'd be old because I'm 30. But you're right, Daniel is acting immaturely, very much like my former fundy cube mate. I think it's the brainwashing that does it.

[Ouroboros]

P.S. I can't believe I just had to tell someone to grow up....I'm only 27....Damn I feel old sometimes.

 

You're not old. If 27 were old, than I'd be old because I'm 30. But you're right, Daniel is acting immaturely, very much like my former fundy cube mate. I think it's the brainwashing that does it.

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And if YOU are old then I'm frigging senile! I'm 40.

 

(Just waiting for our older participants to join in, in the rants of ages )

[Mythra]

And, if you're senile, I'm freking DECREPIT.

 

Big five-oh in six months.

[Antlerman]

and by the way dan.

Do not seek understanding so that you might believe. Believe, so that you might attain understanding.

 

You have just summed up why I hate the christian belief system, and any belief system that requires you to stop thinking for yourself, thats what I really hate about christianity, thanks for helping me to realize that.

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Precisely my feelings too. This whole "eyes of faith", "believe it first, then you will understand it" is this: The classic con. This is how con artists work. "You need to believe this will work, and then you'll see it's real power." Snake oil sales men. Evangelical faith healers, fundamentalist con artists. If it can't stand on it's own two legs, then it's a sham; it's a con job!