Just Wondering...

[ShackledNoMore]

More directly addressing the OP, bear in mind that 85% of the people we deal with every day are christians.  I don't think you'll find many saying they hate all of them.  I would say that they pretty much all are either indoctrinated, brainwashed, have not critically examined their beliefs, have gone with the flow, have used christianity as a tool to their own ends, are afraid, have trouble dealing with their own mortality, are burdened with guilt or they have seen despair and christianity offered an easy out for them, or are simply authoritarian followers prone to lapping up the cultural memes doled out be their (yes, human/cultural) authorities...are there more categories along these lines?  Probably, this is just what I thought of off the top of my head.  Just like non-believers, christains cannot be painted with a broad brush, nor can general hatred toward christians be claimed.  However, I'm none too fond of christianity given the trail of blood, conquest, and human agony its left over the centuries.

[mymistake]

 

 

I came on here to chat, talk.. communicate and get to know people.

 

 

Good for you.  Nothing wrong with that.

[raoul]

 

 

 

 

"There are people who have bitterness here that show through their posts.. it's not an insult. Just an observation..."

 

You would be bitter too, if you had "done Christianity all wrong", as we have. You see, most of us on this site:

1. Gave our all to God and lay down our lives daily to him as living sacrifices. Every single day, and often to great peril.

2. Married the person we thought God wanted us to marry (sometimes these unions looked absurd to non-believers--but we were acting on faith).

3. Gave hundreds of thousands of dollars--even lost our homes--to God, the church, and certain ministries you name it.

4. Made huge career choices based on our eschatological viewpoints and what we thought God wanted us to do for him. (That's my story. I regret every day the choices I made for God that led me to nowhere.)

 

It's like you give all you money, your home, and stake your children on an investment plan, and then the investor turns out to be a fraud and absconds with your money, your home, and your kids. This is what has happened to us.

 

Should we kick ourselves for being so dumb as to believe the Christian myth is actually true? Or do we kick those who continue to try to suck people into the myth that destroyed our lives?

 

 

I'm not saying you don't have a right to be bitter. 

 

Why don't you respond to his freaking FACTS? Oh, my bad - you're unable to. Never mind..

 

 

I'm not going to justify wrong things that have been done.

 

I'll graciously translate for those not familiar with the cult terms: "I'm not going to justify wrong things that have been done because I am completely clueless as to how to address them. I am simply here to spread the good news and report back to my cult church". LOL

[ShackledNoMore]

 

I can understand (at least to some degree) the feelings of bitterness and hate towards someone/something etc.  I do not want to down play anything bad that has happened to anyone here. 

 

Thank you, by the way.  I think it's a very reasonable thing to empathize and seek understanding.  Stick around to read more threads/posts.

[raoul]

Is there anything I could say and do (that I know of right now) that could persuade you to believe the bible is all true?

 

No. Simply stated because any serious bible student and/or scholar knows that is a pure flat out lie. The various books were written by men, each with his own agenda or purpose. Maybe verses in the bible, both ot and nt, were added decades even centuries after more reliable manuscripts were either destroyed or lost. Many other verses were changed or even deleted in order to avoid embarrassment regarding various doctrinal issues.

 

That was just a very short version of what took me years to realize after years of studying 'to show myself approved'.

 

Any comments now regarding it being all true? Anyone who makes that outlandish claim displays incredible ignorance regarding biblical knowledge and/or criticism.

[buffettphan]

 

I'm wondering something also.  When you (OP) first arrived at our website, did you notice the link to the disclaimer on the Main Blog page?  Did you read it?   

 

 

 

This blog exists for the express purpose of encouraging those who have decided to leave religion (Christianity) behind. It is not an open challenge to Christians to avenge what they perceive as an offense against their religious beliefs

 

 

 

While the Main Blog and the Forums do allow christians to post, please remember that this website was created for people who need to express and process the hurt, pain, betrayal, lies, and negativity caused by christianity and christians.  If what is expressed here offends you or doesn't suit you in any way whatsoever, you should not be here. Click the X in the top right corner.      

 

 

 

Ex-Christian.Net strongly believes in freedom of speech. We believe everybody should have the freedom to post whatever they like on their own websites, within the boundaries of the law. Anyone who finds the policies of this site too constraining is free to create another website tailored to fit his or her personal preferences.

 

 

Please save us all some time and energy and read these before you post again.

 

Welcome to Ex-C! Watch your step, please  .

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/43927-you-give-love-a-bad-name/

 

Freedom of speech only goes one way? If you feel I have broken the rules, go ahead and delete the thread.

 

 

 

Wow...defensive much?  I ask you a few simple questions and get nothing but the typical smartass christian response (i.e. non-answer) from you.

 

First, it's not my place to delete anyone's thread. 

 

Second, I wouldn't delete your thread even if I could and I doubt that the moderators would either (at least based upon your posts so far).   It's more likely that a thread will eventually be locked if you refuse to answer our questions.    Additionally, every time a True Christian^TM  pontificates here, we are all thankful that we were able to see through the christian beliefs and are no longer trapped in christinsanity.  You serve as a reminder of where we once were.  So thank you for that.  We also hope that when other lurkers see the exchanges between True Christians^TM and Ex-Christians, they too will see the buybull god for what it really is -- an ancient, primitive, tribal, murderous, man-made mythical barbarian.

 

Third, I'm still waiting for you to answer not only my questions, but questions from other members as well.

 

Fourth, I didn't previously ask you, but we would like to know if you read the articles on the two links I provided and your thoughts on them.

 

Finally, please read this http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/  including all of the comments, and DON'T MESS WITH OUR MARGEE!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------

edited to correct typos

 

 

 

[Margee]

 

Nobodyyouknow.... I want to ask you a sincere question. Do you believe in the literal account  that took place in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, with all your heart and soul?

Yes

 

Then I wish you well sweetheart and may all your prayers be answered.  I mean that. I hope that happens for you.

 

 I have nothing more to say.

[ShackledNoMore]

I'm not getting trapped into pointless conversations. It is clear many of you know what the bible says already and I don't feel like being cornered by certain 'questions'. e.g why do you think genesis is literal. Its already a conversation you probably have had many times over with Christians.

 

I know you don't want to go in this direction, but if the bible really were true, why would there be any concern about getting cornered?  Seems to me that if it were really true it would be defensible.  It's really not my place to take the role of the snake in the garden, but whether you engage in any such conversations here or not, it seems like a good thing to me to read your bible carefully and think about why it is "good" and why it is "true" if that is indeed your conclusion.

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

 

 

 

 

 

"There are people who have bitterness here that show through their posts.. it's not an insult. Just an observation..."

 

You would be bitter too, if you had "done Christianity all wrong", as we have. You see, most of us on this site:

1. Gave our all to God and lay down our lives daily to him as living sacrifices. Every single day, and often to great peril.

2. Married the person we thought God wanted us to marry (sometimes these unions looked absurd to non-believers--but we were acting on faith).

3. Gave hundreds of thousands of dollars--even lost our homes--to God, the church, and certain ministries you name it.

4. Made huge career choices based on our eschatological viewpoints and what we thought God wanted us to do for him. (That's my story. I regret every day the choices I made for God that led me to nowhere.)

 

It's like you give all you money, your home, and stake your children on an investment plan, and then the investor turns out to be a fraud and absconds with your money, your home, and your kids. This is what has happened to us.

 

Should we kick ourselves for being so dumb as to believe the Christian myth is actually true? Or do we kick those who continue to try to suck people into the myth that destroyed our lives?

 

 

I'm not saying you don't have a right to be bitter. 

 

Why don't you respond to his freaking FACTS? Oh, my bad - you're unable to. Never mind..

 

 

I'm not going to justify wrong things that have been done.

 

I'll graciously translate for those not familiar with the cult terms: "I'm not going to justify wrong things that have been done because I am completely clueless as to how to address them. I am simply here to spread the good news and report back to my cult church". LOL

 

 

I don't have a church at the moment to report back to so no..... and I haven't spread anything so far (I have a feeling someone will say.. yes you have.. you have spread....*insert an attack*... could be wrong tho)

[Ravenstar]

 

Okay... I can't keep up with all the others and stuff so I'll stick to my train of thought as best I can - and because I'm a curious cat. 

 

You say you believe in the bible as the word of god.. kk, now we are getting somewhere. How do you know the Bible is the word of god?

 

Okay..wait... just saw your last post, so if you don't want to be cornered (whatever) what questions do YOU have then? You did state you had questions.. so... let's hear them.

 

Is there anything I could say and do (that I know of right now) that could persuade you to believe the bible is all true? Most probably not which is the real question I think. If I answered your question it would turn into a pointless debate and as I said I don't have all the answers.

If anyone could prove that the Bible is all true I would be seriously impressed. I'd even maybe return to christianity, most of us here would probably give it another serious look I'm sure.

 

But how would you prove that?

 

But... THAT'S actually the entire point.... there are two stances, either it's provable and therefore true, or it isn't and it's a matter of faith - which is believing things which have no proof and not a position to base one's life on as it's irrational. Faith is not a virtue... it's ignorance and laziness.

 

I needed to know that what I believed, base my life on actually WAS true... truth is very important to me. So I decided to study it. Seriously and deeply - and oh, yes - I prayed for guidance. I've been a seeker my entire life. But there is only one way to prove the bible is all true - that is that everything in it is true and consistent and good. LIKE IT WOULD BE if it was the product of an perfect, omnipotent, omniscient and loving god.

 

I can give you a preview... it's not. Not on any level... and anyone who tells you it is, is either a liar, or ignorant. If someone as uneducated as I am can see all the holes in it - it doesn't say much about this all-powerful beings ability to get it's message across.

 

The only way anyone knows about this god is through the bible...there is no other evidence... and the bible is historically, factually and archeaologically a mess. Does it have some good ideas.. sure - but nothing that other religions don't or haven't had. It blatantly borrows from other ancient cultures, Sumerian, Egyptian, Canaanite, Persian, Hellenism, etc... very little (almost none) of it's history lines up with what the rest of the world reported was going on at that time... scientifically it's a joke. I won't even go into talking snakes and donkeys and stuff.

 

It is utterly inconsistent. It's been translated, transliterated and edited to death - by people who really wanted to just use it to quiet dissent in their empires - seriously, do some reading on the Council of Nicea.. and read some of Augustine's writings, and Martin Luther's.. real nice guys. Oh.. and Paul was an asshole, and a conman. (my interpretation of his crap)

 

Just the idea that humans came from just two people is utter nonsense - it's not physically possible.

 

The OT is riddled with immorality, misogyny, slavery and obscene commands and rituals and a cruel, jealous and bloodthirsty god. So even if it was true, it's abhorrent.

 

So is the concept of having an innocent die for someone elses transgressions... (maybe we should stop sending criminals to jail and sacrifice children instead)

 

So is the concept of infinite torture for finite sins.. completely immoral and repugnant.

 

The thing I don't get is that people still hang on to it in the face of it's utter bullshit. But that's me.. and I have SOME of the answers - because I wasn't too lazy to actually look them up and decide for myself.

 

But - if you got something I haven't come across yet, I'm perfectly willing to hear it out. As a matter of fact I NEED to hear it... Please enlighten me... I could be wrong... I've been wrong before.

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

 

I'm not getting trapped into pointless conversations. It is clear many of you know what the bible says already and I don't feel like being cornered by certain 'questions'. e.g why do you think genesis is literal. Its already a conversation you probably have had many times over with Christians.

 

I know you don't want to go in this direction, but if the bible really were true, why would there be any concern about getting cornered?  Seems to me that if it were really true it would be defensible.  It's really not my place to take the role of the snake in the garden, but whether you engage in any such conversations here or not, it seems like a good thing to me to read your bible carefully and think about why it is "good" and why it is "true" if that is indeed your conclusion.

 

 

Totally agree about the reading bible part and thinking carefully about why it is good etc.

 

I believe even before I give an answer to one of the 'questions' ...Alot of people here already have their come back all lined up before I've spoken. That's cos  I'm sure this is not the first time they have been through a conversation which the same/similar question. Thats what I believe anyway. And as I've already said, I'm not here for a debate or I'd be in the lions den. 

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

 

 

I'm wondering something also.  When you (OP) first arrived at our website, did you notice the link to the disclaimer on the Main Blog page?  Did you read it?   

 

 

 

This blog exists for the express purpose of encouraging those who have decided to leave religion (Christianity) behind. It is not an open challenge to Christians to avenge what they perceive as an offense against their religious beliefs

 

 

 

While the Main Blog and the Forums do allow christians to post, please remember that this website was created for people who need to express and process the hurt, pain, betrayal, lies, and negativity caused by christianity and christians.  If what is expressed here offends you or doesn't suit you in any way whatsoever, you should not be here. Click the X in the top right corner.      

 

 

 

Ex-Christian.Net strongly believes in freedom of speech. We believe everybody should have the freedom to post whatever they like on their own websites, within the boundaries of the law. Anyone who finds the policies of this site too constraining is free to create another website tailored to fit his or her personal preferences.

 

 

Please save us all some time and energy and read these before you post again.

 

Welcome to Ex-C! Watch your step, please  .

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/43927-you-give-love-a-bad-name/

 

Freedom of speech only goes one way? If you feel I have broken the rules, go ahead and delete the thread.

 

 

 

Wow...defensive much?  I ask you a few simple questions and get nothing but the typical smartass christian response (i.e. non-answer) from you.

 

First, it's not my place to delete anyone's thread. 

 

Second, I wouldn't delete your thread even if I could and I doubt that the moderators would either (at least based upon your posts so far).   It's more likely that a thread will eventually be locked if you refuse to answer our questions.    Additionally, every time a True Christian^TM  pontificates here, we are all thankful that we were able to see through the christian beliefs and are no longer trapped in christinsanity.  You serve as a reminder of where we once were.  So thank you for that.  We also hope that when other lurkers see the exchanges between True Christians^TM and Ex-Christians, they too will see the buybull god for what it really is -- an ancient, primitive, tribal, murderous, man-made mythical barbarian.

 

Third, I'm still waiting for you to answer not only my questions, but questions from other members as well.

 

Fourth, I didn't previously ask you, but we would like to know if you read the articles on the two links I provided and your thoughts on them.

 

Finally, please read this http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/  including all of the comments, and DON'T MESS WITH OUR MARGEE!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------

edited to correct typos

 

 

 

 

Are you meaning the questions concerning my faith and why I believe what I believe? There's questions I choose not to answer because I am not here for debate.

 

If I've missed another kind of question cos you please post again?

[Ravenstar]

"I'm not here for a debate or I'd be in the lions den."

 

I think we are in the dark about why you are here...(?) not that it's a bad thing you are here, but you really haven't told us your purpose. It obviously isn't for the purpose of this site (to support those leaving christianity) ... hmmm.... The OP isn't the reason, is it? You don't really want to discuss our anger and bitterness...do you?

 

 

yup.. reading the Bible, best thing to do. I heartily endorse that.

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

Also I had a look at the links. I'll try to keep the rules in mind. If break one, its not intentional

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

"I'm not here for a debate or I'd be in the lions den."

 

I think we are in the dark about why you are here...(?) not that it's a bad thing you are here, but you really haven't told us your purpose. It obviously isn't for the purpose of this site (to support those leaving christianity) ... hmmm.... The OP isn't the reason, is it? You don't really want to discuss our anger and bitterness...do you?

 

 

yup.. reading the Bible, best thing to do. I heartily endorse that.

 

I already said why I was here....chat.. talk.. communicate. Christians and non Christians can do that right?

[Ravenstar]

Absolutely

 

[Ravenstar]

So... what do you want to chat about?

[wanderinstar]

If you dont mind me asking, why are you not going to church at the moment? You don't want to debate with us, that's fine with me. Maybe we could just get to know each other. Im curious as to what led you here. Since it now seems clear we cannot be persuaded (without monumental evidence) that the bible is true why do you linger? We are very good at answering genuine questions kindly if you have any more so dont be intimidated to ask. We are just tired of being peoples pet project; hints of this make our hackles go up, as I'm sure you noticed.

[buffettphan]

 

 

Are you meaning the questions concerning my faith and why I believe what I believe? There's questions I choose not to answer because I am not here for debate.

 

If I've missed another kind of question cos you please post again?

 

 

My questions were:  Did you read this site disclaimer and the purpose of this website before you first posted?*  What about the 3 articles/threads I linked, including Margee's?  Your thoughts on the articles?

 

Just as others have asked, I too am wondering what your real reason is for being here. Keep in mind this is a support site for deconverting and ex-christians, so when a True Christian^TM shows up here --- well, we've got to wonder......      But you don't have a church to report back to, you don't want to try to justify the wrongs that were committed by christians, and you don't want to answer questions regarding your faith and why you believe.      I think we've already addressed the "anger, bitterness, bashing," etc of your original post.  So, okay then, what else do you want to chat about?    

 

You are here and posting from some reason.  Are you experiencing doubts about your faith?   (Please don't feel as though you have to answer that on a somewhat public forum -- just ask yourself and be honest.)  People have recommended you read more of the threads/posts here. I second that. There are thousands to choose from and even more on the main blog.  I also recommend that you read the bible thoroughly and objectively.  Evaluate it the same way you would evaluate the Koran or any other special holy book that someone is trying to sell you on.  

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

ETA:

 

*I think you answered that a couple of posts down the line when you said you took a look at the links.  What I really want to know is did you read the three articles, including all the comments, and what do you think?  How did you feel while reading them?

[owen652]

I'm on the phone so I cant use quotes, however.. You fobbed off my question regarding your intent with the OP. If you claim you are here simply to talk, chat, socialise, whatever.. you are insincere at best and a liar at worst; this is obvious to all of us who once operated within a christian mindset. If, as you claim, you are a committed, bible- believing christian, then you are COMMANDED to use every situation as an opportunity to witness. You expect us to believe that you wander into a den of vipers like Ex-C and not even a part of your reason for doing it is for being a witness for Christ. not even a little bit? If not, why not, when you are commanded to? You are disobeying God. Sorry dude, I'm not buying it for one second, because I used to do the same kinds of things myself, and I was full of shit.

[msipsy218]

Holy Bananas.

 

While most people have been here for awhile and have seen this all before, I have not. I'm interested. OP, you say you wanted to genuinely ask questions. An honest curiosity. What do you want to know?

[msipsy218]

 

I'm here to meet some people. Get to know some people. Ask some questions (obviously) 

 

 

That's the comment I was referring to, btw

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

So... what do you want to chat about?

 

Do you have a blog outside of this site?

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

Holy Bananas.

 

While most people have been here for awhile and have seen this all before, I have not. I'm interested. OP, you say you wanted to genuinely ask questions. An honest curiosity. What do you want to know?

 

I guess I just meant to ask questions as they came up - non debating religious ones - maybe i'll try hanging out in the off topic threads. 

 

So have you been away from the site for awhile?

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

If you dont mind me asking, why are you not going to church at the moment? You don't want to debate with us, that's fine with me. Maybe we could just get to know each other. Im curious as to what led you here. Since it now seems clear we cannot be persuaded (without monumental evidence) that the bible is true why do you linger? We are very good at answering genuine questions kindly if you have any more so dont be intimidated to ask. We are just tired of being peoples pet project; hints of this make our hackles go up, as I'm sure you noticed.

 

Yeah i had noticed a little...

 

We felt God called us out of our last church. 

 

I was looking for a forum to chat in and think I probably googled my way here. How long have you been here? ....i appreciate your post