Just Wondering...

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

 

Because I believe that's where my only hope is found. 

 

 

I find that sad.  But stick around.  Perhaps you'll learn something if you take some time and listen.

 

You got flamed right off the bat with your OP because it was laden with assumptions about who we are.  You no doubt spotted a pattern, but that's because it was a pattern that stuck out to you, not necessarily because it is a true representation of us.

 

Without getting too wordy here, have you ever noticed that when you buy a new car that you suddenly see that model of car everywhere you go?  Did more of those cars just appear or were they there all along and you just started to notice them because they became more of a focus to you?

 

We are ex christians and we are ex's for a reason.  The reasons may surprise you if you take the time and try and see things without peering through stained-glass goggles; i.e. preconceived ideas filtered through your own set of personal beliefs. 

 

 

Yes, I guess I did see a pattern but I also think my observation wasn't totally wrong. I don't think my post was laden with assumptions. Maybe one assumption that a lot of posts all seemed similar.. bitter etc. But as I said earlier, I had read a few posts but not all. 

 

I don't think the car analogy quite fits this though..... I wasn't any more focused on one type of post than another. You can notice a pattern without being focused on one thing.

[Vigile]

 

 

I'm not getting trapped into pointless conversations. It is clear many of you know what the bible says already and I don't feel like being cornered by certain 'questions'. e.g why do you think genesis is literal. Its already a conversation you probably have had many times over with Christians.

 

I know you don't want to go in this direction, but if the bible really were true, why would there be any concern about getting cornered?  Seems to me that if it were really true it would be defensible.  It's really not my place to take the role of the snake in the garden, but whether you engage in any such conversations here or not, it seems like a good thing to me to read your bible carefully and think about why it is "good" and why it is "true" if that is indeed your conclusion.

 

 

Totally agree about the reading bible part and thinking carefully about why it is good etc.

 

I believe even before I give an answer to one of the 'questions' ...Alot of people here already have their come back all lined up before I've spoken. That's cos  I'm sure this is not the first time they have been through a conversation which the same/similar question. Thats what I believe anyway. And as I've already said, I'm not here for a debate or I'd be in the lions den. 

 

 

Ha ha.  I think that's pretty accurate.  Don't take it too personally.  We haven't had a lot of new xian posters here for a while and many here, especially the newer posters, are chomping at the bit to debate their old beliefs, which can be quite therapeutically considering most have to keep their mouths shut around their friends and loved ones. 

 

You seem sincere in that you just want to come here and chat and perhaps get to know us.  If that's what you do, and don't end up preaching to us, people will calm down and you'll see that real communication can take place between you and us.  Just a warning (not in any way a threat) if you do decide to preach, you're probably going to get buried in questions and challenges.

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

Thanks NobodyYouKnow!

 

I haven't travelled for a while but I have been to the UK, USA, Thailand, Indonesia, Canada, France and Switzerland (from memory). You should travel if you can, it really broadens your mind. I'm still wondering why you are chatting to random people on an EX-christian forum. We can chat with each other but only to a point if you refuse to discuss why you are on this forum and not a christian one. In this forum my focus is processing my deconversion and helping other to do the same so I don't really have much time and energy to give to chit chat outside that. Head what many here have been saying and honestly investigate your faith. I regret, with much sorrow, the years lost to christianity. I know you won't look until you're ready but keep it in mind before you join another church.

 

BTW - the church f*#ked up my marrige too. That ended six months ago.

 

Sorry to hear that 

 

Wow.. you sure have travelled! I'd just be excited for the plane trip alone - I'm not always hard to please.. 

 

I'm on this forum (as I've said a few times before) just to chat, communicate, get to know people etc. 

 

Feel free not to reply to this post as time is valuable (not offended at all) 

 

Nice meeting you 

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

  Just a warning (not in any way a threat) if you do decide to preach, you're probably going to get buried in questions and challenges. 

 

 

And will I have to provide my own vest or will a complimentary one be provided? (always pays to ask ahead  )

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

One more thing before I go, please note that every one of his posts are edited - I think that says a lot

 

LOL

 

Yes..... it says that I always post way too fast and end up not making sense. I do the same with emails. 

 

Sorry that the truth isn't always that interesting

[Vigile]

 

 

I don't think my post was laden with assumptions. Maybe one assumption that a lot of posts all seemed similar.. bitter etc. But as I said earlier, I had read a few posts but not all..

 

 

It's a bit of a pet peeve for many of us to be accused of leaving the faith because we were somehow hurt by the church, by xians, etc...  You may not have meant that in your OP, but it's how it came across from our perspective.  The reason this is a pet peeve is because it is not only inaccurate for most of us, but it implies we are so shallow as to remove ourselves from a system of personal beliefs simply because we were offended.  When, in fact, most of us spent years of study and questioning to arrive at where we are today, something so trite as a mere offense causing us to leave behind our old beliefs is laughable. 

 

Bitterness toward our experiences with xianity?  Yeah.  That's pretty accurate. 

[wanderinstar]

[quote name=wanderinstar" post="831025" time="13574

62554]

 

You will love the flights....well at least I do!

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

One more thing before I go, please note that every one of his posts are edited - I think that says a lot

 

What made you think I was a male? Just curious

[openpalm45]

Hey nobodyyouknow!
I am late to the party, but I just wanted to say welcome!
Im still not really sure what you are doing here, but that's okay. I feel like you have tried to be respectful and you seem open to conversation (other than debates.. which I totally understand because christianity doesn't have a leg to stand on. Not trying to be rude, but hey, you are on ex-Christian.net)
I realize you have had a rocky beginning. I could definitely see why your first post seemed offensive, but on one hand I get where you are coming from. When I first came to this website it was when I was deconverting. I read many posts and got a lot of encouragement from them and the people on here. But after a few weeks or so, I began to see more and more bitterness, anger, and people making fun of christians. I didn't really like it or know what to do with it. It caught me off guard, bc its just not my style to be that way. But the more I talked to the people here, the more I understood them, and the more their comments made sense to me. Many of us have been through tremendous hurts bc of christianity, and we all have different ways of dealing with that pain and loss. Im not a naturally angry person (in fact, sometimes I SHOULD be angry, and im not) so how I deal with pain, loss, regret, etc is going to be different than someone who gets angrily more easily, and there is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes it seems some people go overboard, but you also have to remember that many of these people are surrounded by Christians all of the time, some are even married to a christian, and this is their only place to vent. And they absolutely deserve the freedom and space to do so. We all need to vent in here sometimes.
So before you jump to conclusions about our anger or bitterness, take some time to get to know us. Read our posts. Message us. Ask us questions. You will find genuine, kind people. People who have lost a great deal, due to christianity.
It seems you understand that you aren't allowed to try to convert us (and that trying would be pointless- we were once just as christian as you, maybe even more. And we have no desire to go back). So yes, feel free to talk to us. Some of us will be more receptive than others. But if you are really here to have open, sincere conversations, and to LISTEN, then I welcome you.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Also I would just like to point out that when we talk badly about Christians/Christianity or point out hypocritical things that they do, we are often making fun of WHO WE USED TO BE. We used to be just like them! So its not that we hate them. We WERE them.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Dear Nobodyyouknow,

 

I join others in saying Welcome.  I envy your South Island.  I hope to get to New Zealand some day.

 

I don't know what other threads you've examined on this site, but I think there is much fascinating material in the thread about Jim and Penny Caldwell's Archeological Findings on the Science and faith forum. 

 

Some good questions posed by an ex-chr to a Christian were posed by Spectrox, re-posted in the Aaron's Resurrection thread.  I get that you're not here to debate, but in case you're interested in the questions, they are at:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/54804-aarons-resurrection/?p=830794

[Deva]

I don't think any answer I could give would satisfy you so I'm not going to give you one.  I don't pretend to know all the answers and I don't care to debate. I'm sincere whether people choose to believe it or not. Does it really matter why I came? If I am here for 'bad' reasons, no doubt i'll get kicked. 

 

 

Actually, you are a much better writer than most Christians we get on here.  No, we won't kick you out if you don't give us a reason.  Unlike Christians, we don't much care what most people believe in everyday life. Its just that we are  curious about why you are here since we don't share your core beliefs.  We think its a natural question to ask a Christian on an Ex-Christian site. 

 

You changed your avatar, I notice.  That is a step in the right direction.

[buffettphan]

 

 

Are you meaning the questions concerning my faith and why I believe what I believe? There's questions I choose not to answer because I am not here for debate.

 

If I've missed another kind of question cos you please post again?

 

 

My questions were:  Did you read this site disclaimer and the purpose of this website before you first posted?*  What about the 3 articles/threads I linked, including Margee's?  Your thoughts on the articles?

 

Just as others have asked, I too am wondering what your real reason is for being here. Keep in mind this is a support site for deconverting and ex-christians, so when a True Christian^TM shows up here --- well, we've got to wonder......      But you don't have a church to report back to, you don't want to try to justify the wrongs that were committed by christians, and you don't want to answer questions regarding your faith and why you believe.      I think we've already addressed the "anger, bitterness, bashing," etc of your original post.  So, okay then, what else do you want to chat about?    

 

You are here and posting from some reason.  Are you experiencing doubts about your faith?   (Please don't feel as though you have to answer that on a somewhat public forum -- just ask yourself and be honest.)  People have recommended you read more of the threads/posts here. I second that. There are thousands to choose from and even more on the main blog.  I also recommend that you read the bible thoroughly and objectively.  Evaluate it the same way you would evaluate the Koran or any other special holy book that someone is trying to sell you on.  

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

ETA:

 

*I think you answered that a couple of posts down the line when you said you took a look at the links.  What I really want to know is did you read the three articles, including all the comments, and what do you think?  How did you feel while reading them?

 

 

I saw them...the thread that stuck out was the one on forgiveness.. that Margee (?) posted. I could feel the sadness, hurt and confusion coming through. Makes me feel sad while thinking about.

 

I don't feel like I'm experiencing doubts but I want to stick around for awhile.

 

Tho it feels like some people have been a bit harsh...I think I can understand some of the suspicions and reactions to me being here. 

 

And I do really appreciate the people who have made an effort to understand and give me a chance

 

 

Thanks for replying.  This website is a sanctuary for most of us.  Maybe someday it will be yours too.  In the meantime, I hope you enjoy your stay. Read. Read. Read.  

 

Peace.

BP

-------------------------------------------------

 

PS --  I like your new avatar.

[buffettphan]

I forgot to say --   Not only is this website our sanctuary, it's also our playground.  Check out the Humor section, funny pictures, things people say on facebook, Totally Off Topic.  There's also a thread about favorite music and other threads about movies and videos.   Personally I usually stay out of the political stuff and the Lion's Den -- I get enough of that in real life!   

[emshi21]

To nobody I know

 

You may have already been told this, I don't know, but I thought I'd ask you this anyway. If you didn't want to start a debate, why create a thread, use strong words directed at us and then make it really, really obvious that you are religious. If you just wan't to chat, why not participate in another forum in something non religious? You could still have the 'authentic Christain believer' sign, no one would expect you to pretend to be non-religious. Isn't that what you wanted?

 

We wouldn't bite if you don't dangle the bait in front of us!

[openpalm45]

Maybe I read her post differently than many of you. This is what I see when I break it down:

(Her posts are in red. I havent gotten the hang of the new quoting system!)

 

 

 

"Ok, so I'm reading through some of the threads and I'm thinking ...am I going to be needing to wear a bullet proof vest before I start to post? "

 

Okay. Legitimate question. I would be afraid to be a Christian posting on this site too.

 

 

 

"Obviously there is a lot of anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here."

 

Again. This is an objectively true statement. I dont think she meant to come across as accusing anyone.

 

 

"Are there many threads that don't include some kind of bashing? Whether thats belittling Christians, being rude or outright hateful...."

 

This is the only sentence where I see some problem and it can sound a bit accusatory. But when I read her next sentence I think that maybe she is genuinely looking for a safe place on the site to have a conversation here (see my comment to her next sentence).

 

 

"Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about?"

 

Again, legitimate question. She hasnt seen any Christians posting on here, but is wanting to post and have conversations. But if she sees that we are making fun of Christianity or that we are angry, she doesnt know how we will respond to her posts. So she wants to know if there are Christians who have been able to post on here and have discussions, without being treated the way she sees us treating Christianity in general.

 

 

Maybe I read it wrong, and the others who saw it as more strong and aggressive were right? Only she really knows the intentions behind her words. But since then she has said that she didnt mean to come across that way and apologized if she did. So I think we ought to give her a fair chance.

 

Its so easy to take things the wrong way on the internet, without tone of voice and expressions. But I really think she had good intentions and was not trying to be rude.

[mymistake]

Maybe we can both agree to like the chocolate part? no.. wait... would that be milk chocolate or dark? 

 

Dark is way better. But for the life of me I can't find a dark chocolate I like better than Hershey's Dark.  I guess it imprinted on me when I was a kid so now it's the one I compare all other chocolate.

[ShackledNoMore]

 

I suppose i should give you the benefit of the doubt. But I don't have to. So I won't.

 

How bout I give you the benefit of the doubt instead... that the turkish delight you have on your avatar is not the nasty.. and i mean nasty... stuff that is covered with chocolate... I have to be really desperate to lower my standards to eat that stuff  and even then I'd choose eating cooking chocolate straight out of the packet first.

 

 

Oh.  My.  Non-existent.  God!

 

I just looked it up on Wikipedia.  The stuff looks like a candy version of fruitcake.

[ShackledNoMore]

 

And no, there is nothing you could say or do to make me not believe.

 

 

Why?  You could certainly make me believe simply by providing appropriate evidence.  Of course you can't claim biblical infallibility on a book full of contradictions, but talk to me about a self-consistent belief system with supporting evidence and I'll listen.  What about all your compadres from either different religions or mutually exclusive branches of christianity who are equally convinced and cemented in their beliefs?  Are you right and are they wrong?

[ShackledNoMore]

There have been several posts about those of us who have been hurt or damaged by the church.  In conversations like this, I usually regret that I am one of them, because it leaves the door open for me to be accused of leaving "just because I was hurt."  Of course of every one of us that was hurt, there are others who were not, but still left because christianity just did not add up.

A couple gems from my toxic legacy from xianity, nobodyyouknow: I was so aggressively indoctrinated by my family/church on the evils of lust that I became impotent while I was still a teenager, and it took an additional 20 years and half a lifetime of damage repair before I could leave my virginity.  After I partially came out, my mother "left me for the devil" and I never saw her again for the last six years of her life.

But you know what?  Although it certainly played into getting my deconversion rolling, I did not leave because of the abuse I endured at the hands of the church.  If xianity had been corroborated, I would have been a eunuch for the kingdom, and I would have taken up my cross and borne it on a daily basis for all the many aspects of how I was fucked up by christianity.

Don't paint ex-christians as bitter wound-lickers who have walked away as an emotional response because they were unlucky enough to have fallen into the wrong church.

But...  Since the theme has played prominently in this thread, go ahead and ask yourself: Why has this perfect and benevolent god allowed his sincere followers to get screwed over so badly, not from the outside world, but from his own church, his own directive, his own pen?

[Ravenstar]

Yes... I paint..and draw,  My education is in graphics, art and (western) art history.

 

I blog.. am trying to develop that into a (third! lol) career (writing) - however I have just started down that road.

 

I like all science..especially astronomy and physics, they are really cool, even if some of it is way over my head.

[Thought2Much]

Its so easy to take things the wrong way on the internet, without tone of voice and expressions. But I really think she had good intentions and was not trying to be rude.

 

Perhaps, but even though her first post was not very long, she still managed to include an awful lot of "trigger" phrases in it. Whether this was done knowingly or unknowingly is impossible to determine. If this was done unknowingly, then it shows that she didn't do enough reading here before she posted.

 

Imagine if I had been an atheist all of my life, and then I went to a site called ilovechristianity.net, and my first post was:

 

"Hi everyone. I just found your site, and I'm amazed at what everyone here believes. Could you explain why you believe in this mythological figure called Jesus? Could anyone tell me how you became convinced that any of the mythological stuff in the Bible is true? I just want to chat with Christians, but I'm not interested in debate."

 

Exactly how well do you think such a post would fly in such an environment?

 

EDIT: Note how in my example post, there is nothing directly insulting within it, but it contains "trigger" phrases that would get Christians in a tizzy.

[mymistake]

 

Perhaps, but even though her first post was not very long, she still managed to include an awful lot of "trigger" phrases in it. Whether this was done knowingly or unknowingly is impossible to determine. If this was done unknowingly, then it shows that she didn't do enough reading here before she posted.

 

Yes it was a bad start.  However I think she has made some good calls since then.  I've seen a lot of Christians visit this site.  NYK reminds me of Catholic Kitty.  I think she is a keeper.  I think End3 is slowly coming around to the idea of talking with us about non-religious topics.  That means in nearly a year and a half only 3 Christians would do it.  It's a rare trait.

[Ravenstar]

^^^

 

For myself I'd be surprised if a site called 'ex-christian' wasn't somewhat hostile to christianity. I mean we have rejected it - that's the whole basis of the website. We are here because we reject it (for whatever our personal reasons and every one has their own) and the main purpose is to help each other heal from it. Most of us have pretty strong feelings and opinions about it.

 

In context.. think about a site named, "ex-republican", or "ex-monarchist". same idea...

 

Makes me wonder about the whole social expectation of political correctness, 'tolerance' and 'respecting others beliefs' and the many messages I see elsewhere on the net that basically tries to shut atheists/non-christians down... "shhh, be nice!", "Why do you have to be so angry?", "you people are intolerant", "You should just live and let live", yada, yada, yada... I may be off topic here... but it's a social phenomenon that kind of bugs me and has happened to every minority group (Blacks, feminists, gays, etc...) Basically it says that we should just be quiet and fade into the background, don't rock the boat. (ie: we have no real right to speak up or be upset about anything). We make people uncomfortable just by existing... (not directed to the OP - this is general).

 

Just thinking out loud

[Deva]

 You could still have the 'authentic Christain believer' sign, no one would expect you to pretend to be non-religious. Isn't that what you wanted?

 

We wouldn't bite if you don't dangle the bait in front of us!

 

The "authentic Christian believer" sign is one bestowed upon people by the mods when they sign up and indicate they are obviously Christian.  The OP didn't put that there. However, she did originally have an avatar that referenced a Bible verse. This she has changed.

 

Before it was "authentic Christian believer" it looked like a squid.  We called it a "squiddy".  It was a warning that the poster was a Christian. 

[Guest nobodyyouknow]

To nobody I know

 

You may have already been told this, I don't know, but I thought I'd ask you this anyway. If you didn't want to start a debate, why create a thread, use strong words directed at us and then make it really, really obvious that you are religious. If you just wan't to chat, why not participate in another forum in something non religious? You could still have the 'authentic Christain believer' sign, no one would expect you to pretend to be non-religious. Isn't that what you wanted?

 

We wouldn't bite if you don't dangle the bait in front of us!

 

The major intent of the opening post was to express what I had observed.... and to find out how the ex Christians reacted to Christians on here. Yes, I used some strong words.. there are also some strong words in the threads on here. I was just calling at as I was seeing it. As I said before, I don't think I was totally wrong but maybe I could have worded it better.