Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

[Astreja]

See the skin blistering and turning black -- and the screams continue, never ending --

 

Edited to add:

That's what you're asking us to worship, Joe:  A god that has no need of causing suffering, but does it anyway.  A god that can't be arsed to rescue people from the hell it created.  A god that turns over its creation to Satan rather than defending each and every living thing, believer and non-believer alike.  A god that allows "beauty" and "nature" to be weaponized.  A god that values subservience and blind faith over character and good works.

 

Quite frankly, if I were your god, I'd be rather insulted by the way you've portrayed it.

[LogicalFallacy]

We are starting to get a wee bit preachy as opposed to conversational. 

[Astreja]

A conversation would be a nice change of pace from the skipping record.  About all we know about Joe so far is that he calls himself Joe and that he claims to be from Pittsburgh.

[sdelsolray]

These four threads in which the OP is Poster Joe from Pittsburg are likely to give Ex-C a poor rating from many observers.

 

I suggest banning this troll and deleting his four threads permanently.

[alreadyGone]

3 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

Because sin is not compatible. At your judgment you will shown the number of times someone tried to tell you.

 

You're not considering we could have just gone straight to hell without this test first.

 

It never occurs to a Christian believer to ask -

If our sinful nature renders us unfit for the company and presence of God, and he rejects us for that reason, why would it be necessary to condemn us to an eternal punishment?

 

Why would he not instead simply cause those who fail to meet his expectations to die in spirit and exist no more?  Why not just a tongue-lashing and then poof, you're gone?

 

The bible warns that God is so very full of wrath and a vengeful nature.

Why if he abhors evil would he not change that in himself?

Jesus taught that anger and being vengeful is wrong.

Why would he be such an irritable hypocrite drama-queen?

 

 

"Be kind, gentle, and decent to each other dammit, or I'll kick your ass!"

 

 

 

 

[pittsburghjoe]

8 hours ago, Astreja said:

See the skin blistering and turning black -- and the screams continue, never ending --

 

Edited to add:

That's what you're asking us to worship, Joe:  A god that has no need of causing suffering, but does it anyway.  A god that can't be arsed to rescue people from the hell it created.  A god that turns over its creation to Satan rather than defending each and every living thing, believer and non-believer alike.  A god that allows "beauty" and "nature" to be weaponized.  A god that values subservience and blind faith over character and good works.

 

Quite frankly, if I were your god, I'd be rather insulted by the way you've portrayed it.

 

Anything you put in higher regard than God is sin. Nature included.

You keep forgetting that we are in Satan's territory. God didn't want this physical reality for us.

It is Satan that is going to cause the torture in hell. You don't get to blame God for it. We chose to be under Satan's rule in this fallen reality and if you stick around after Judgment Day, he is going to take out his anger on what he hates most ..humans.

[pittsburghjoe]

5 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

 

It never occurs to a Christian believer to ask -

If our sinful nature renders us unfit for the company and presence of God, and he rejects us for that reason, why would it be necessary to condemn us to an eternal punishment?

 

Why would he not instead simply cause those who fail to meet his expectations to die in spirit and exist no more?  Why not just a tongue-lashing and then poof, you're gone?

 

The bible warns that God is so very full of wrath and a vengeful nature.

Why if he abhors evil would he not change that in himself?

Jesus taught that anger and being vengeful is wrong.

Why would he be such an irritable hypocrite drama-queen?

 

 

"Be kind, gentle, and decent to each other dammit, or I'll kick your ass!"

 

 

 

 

 

See my comment before this one.

 

Without the threat of hell you sit back and go on living how you are living. You don't understand what is at stake. You are not imagining what peaceful infinity means. Think about what the opposite of peace is. Do you want that for eternity?

[◊ Weezer ◊]

6 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

These four threads in which the OP is Poster Joe from Pittsburg are likely to give Ex-C a poor rating from many observers.

 

I suggest banning this troll and deleting his four threads permanently.

 

I agree, except would slightly change the second sentence.   I suggest banning this poor misinformed person, and not get into these ridiculous arguments in the future, which are not in the best interest of the forum, and what it hopes to achieve.

[alreadyGone]

.

[pittsburghjoe]

In order for us to think LIKE God, in His image, our souls had to be eternal. You are choosing who you want to follow in this reality.

I told you guys/gals our soul accesses something infinite to function in the physical brain.

[Joshpantera]

8 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

These four threads in which the OP is Poster Joe from Pittsburg are likely to give Ex-C a poor rating from many observers.

 

I suggest banning this troll and deleting his four threads permanently.

 

That's something to think about. 

 

We've given him full range to preach his sermon. It's circular. He's been repeating himself over and over again. His free speech has been given. If we deleted all content, that would be censoring him. Which we wouldn't do. He has the right to wage his arguments in the Den. 

 

He doesn't have the right troll up continuous threads, though. And that does get into breaking the rules and guidelines. Warnings have come from more than one staff member. 

 

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I agree, except would slightly change the second sentence.   I suggest banning this poor misinformed person, and not get into these ridiculous arguments in the future, which are not in the best interest of the forum, and what it hopes to achieve.

 

Joe, why can't you listen to us when we warn you to pump the brakes? 

 

You haven't acknowledged the warnings and continued on as if you were not warned to stop trolling up page after page. We're not going to allow the trolling to go on forever. Especially not when our regular members are complaining about it. 

[pittsburghjoe]

I'm not allowed to respond to people? I only posted a couple times that where not direct responses to someone. I can't help when Weezer posts something ridiculous over and over.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

I'm not allowed to respond to people? I only posted a couple times that where not direct responses to someone. I can't help when Weezer posts something ridiculous over and over.

You're allowed to exercise your free will in every regard, subject to moderator approval.  I'm sure you're used to that not-really-free-will type of free will, so this should be easy.

[pittsburghjoe]

I'm taking this to mean that ..there is a tiny ..tiny chance ..I said something that is making you think. Good! Please, guys, don't get angry about it.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said:

I'm taking this to mean that ..there is a tiny ..tiny chance ..I said something that is making you think. Good! Please, guys, don't get angry about it.

Yes.  You made us think that perhaps you are mentally unstable and should be banned from our website.  I chose this restriction as a compromise, and, hopefully, a path toward your redemption.  Don't fuck it up, okay?

[alreadyGone]

2 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

...Without the threat of hell you sit back and go on living how you are living. You don't understand what is at stake...

 

 

And yet, the majority of humans on earth are born into cultures where there is no belief in a 'hell'. 

 

And of those who do believe in eternal punishment in hell (mostly Christians in the western world), the "threat of hell" fails miserably to influence them to NOT "go on living how you are living". You know this is so, the Bible declares over and over that this is so.

 

27 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

... Please, guys, don't get angry about it.

 

 

I don't see anyone here becoming angry.

Rather, many express some frustration over your tendency to deflect from direct questions, and instead repeat unfounded assertions, emotion and attitude stated as fact,  repeatedly.

 

There is also now a question raised by others that this discussion does not align well with the intended purpose of this website.

I am new here and am less aware of the direction and vector the owners of this site wish it to have. So it may be that from this particular thread of discussion I myself will need to learn to have greater cognizance of this. 

 

 

[Astreja]

3 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

 

Anything you put in higher regard than God is sin. Nature included.

You keep forgetting that we are in Satan's territory. God didn't want this physical reality for us.

It is Satan that is going to cause the torture in hell. You don't get to blame God for it. We chose to be under Satan's rule in this fallen reality and if you stick around after Judgment Day, he is going to take out his anger on what he hates most ..humans.

 

So Satan is more powerful than your god?  Your god can't stop Satan from hurting people?  What a pathetic weakling you worship, Joe.  Sucks to be you.

[Astreja]

28 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said:

I'm taking this to mean that ..there is a tiny ..tiny chance ..I said something that is making you think. Good! Please, guys, don't get angry about it.

 

You don't get to dictate our emotions to us, Joe.  If I want to sit here and laugh at you, and imagine you losing literally everything in your life that brings you the slightest amount of joy, there isn't one fucking thing you can do to stop  me.

[alreadyGone]

4 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

So Satan is more powerful than your god?  Your god can't stop Satan from hurting people?  What a pathetic weakling you worship, Joe.  Sucks to be you.

 

You don't get it.... (nor do I) there is a set of rules to this, as laid down by God...

A sort of cosmic protocol that jus-s-st happens to align oh-so-neatly with the precepts and prejudices of those who chose to believe it.

 

God is all-powerful, but once He has handed down these rules, he ain't budging on them. Even if it means the vast majority of all humans born from the beginning of time must suffer an eternal punishment.

Because he loves us so.

 

Joe feels that it's his responsibility to correct our thinking.

 

 

Human beings see what they believe.

[Astreja]

Just now, alreadyGone said:

 

You don't get it.... (nor do I) there is a set of rules to this, as laid down by God...

A sort of cosmic protocol that jus-s-st happens to align oh-so-neatly with the precepts and prejudices of those who chose to believe it.

 

What an utterly baffling thing to believe - wanting to spend eternity with a god-thing that can't deal with the #1 threat to its followers' existence.  In that absurd context, what would prevent "Satan" from simply invading heaven, destroying the proprietor, and snatching all the True Believers and adding them to the fire?

[alreadyGone]

2 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

What an utterly baffling thing to believe - ....

 

Well..... human beings and all.

 

[WalterP]

Hello again Joe.

 

I have a question for you.

 

Genesis 2 : 15 - 17.

 

 

¹⁵ The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 

¹⁶ And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 

¹⁷ but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

 

 

At this point, how could the totally innocent Adam know what death was?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter

 

[alreadyGone]

Oh-h-h  Walter....

I believe you woke this morning and decided to play a little rougher.

 

And how is it that God would hold Adam responsible for what his silly-assed childish wife did?

 

Was God not able to see that Eve was just too damned stupid to be put in such a situation?

Would not Adam have been able to understand that himself, given that he was this spiritual/celestial being?

 

The bible uses all that metaphor to conflate a physical, real apple (or whatever fruit) by describing it as being just too tempting to ignore (like women with chocolate) and the spiritual aspect of the 'apple' being in reality this body of knowledge and spiritual awareness.

 

I wish I could do business, or enter a courtroom, or submit my taxes using metaphor and b.s. as substitute for facts and reality.

 

A very young man I know once made one of the wisest remarks I've ever heard:

"It's isn't smart to allow women or children too much time on their hands or have unrestricted access to money".

 

(with apologies if this sexist remark is offensive to anyone...  )

 

And again, I am today ashamed that I allowed myself to be led into belief that some such events happened in the Garden, uncountable millennia in the past, and somehow an accurate. actual record of that originating somewhere, somehow.  

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@WalterP, that was going to be my next line of inquiry, had joe been willing to honestly consider how a sinless Eve could have both lied and experienced pride.  Great minds think alike; and, for whatever reason, so do ours, I reckon.

[WarriorPoet]

16 hours ago, pittsburghjoe said:

It trying to show you paths that will lead to you believing ..but you cut them off without a thought. You don't want to be wrong because you like sinning.

I am so sick of this.

 

Joe, you repeatedly show yourself to be just as clueless as other people have said you are.  You really think that we just like sinning?  I've got some news for you.

 

Nearly all of us once believed as strongly as you do now.  One day we realized we didn't anymore, there are more stories in the Testimonies section than you could ever hope to read.  One part of losing our beliefs is realizing that this is all there is, there is no magical paradise in the sky that we will go someday.  One other thing we realize, everyone that we love who has passed away isn't waiting for us.  We will never see them again.  That can be really hard for many ex-believers.  We have to deal with death, for real.  We don't get the benefit of the bedtime story that believers have.

 

Can you possibly entertain the thought that I would do nearly anything to see my dad again?  For just a minute, try to imagine (limited as your imagination may be) how much I want to have another day with my grandfather, or anyone else that I loved that has died.

 

Do you really think that I would rather keep doing anything you call a "sin" if it would keep me from the people I love?  Because I wouldn't, and neither would nearly anyone else.  But no, you come here spouting some bullshit that you heard from the pulpit from a preacher that has no more interest in the lives of ex-christians than you do.  You wonder why people lose their tempers and yell at you over the internet?  It is because you don't have a single clue about anyone that doesn't fit into your bubble.