pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, midniterider said: No, you are just too chickenshit to admit that God's test was poorly designed. Walter is correct and logical. God fucked Adam over by not giving him knowledge to make a good decision. God is one sneaky bastige. It's like testing an armless man's golf swing. It's absolutely ridiculous. God doesn't want to have anything to do with Sin, why tell humans how to use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Joe, This is YOUR test of character. Can you do what is right, what is honest and what is truthful? You know that scripture says Adam was made without a knowledge of good and evil. I know that you know. All you have to do now is to tell the truth. Did god make Adam without a knowledge of good and evil? Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: Misconception, it's the balance that we see in this fallen reality. You can't withhold the knowledge of good when you exist in it. God withheld the knowledge of good and evil from Adam and Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, midniterider said: Being guilty for someone else's crime is also absurd. This must have been God's first crack at making a universe. We are being tested from within the fallen reality that they caused us to be born in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: God doesn't want to have anything to do with Sin, why tell humans how to use it? If, as Christians claim, God created everything. Everything flows from God and nothing exists outside of God, then God is the ultimate designer of sin, explicitly or implicitly. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then he could have created without the possibility of sin while maintaining "free will" that Christians are so fond of. Hardcore Calvinist would state God did create sin and did so knowing the consequences. He did it that he may demonstrate his grace and his wrath. Who he would be trying to impress or show off to is a bit strange. You would think the supreme being of the universe would not care what anyone else thought. I guess we could go into some abstract theology here, but I do not want to get too far off track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said: We are being tested from within the fallen reality that they caused us to be born in. I do not know the rules of this test, matter of fact, I was born into a situation I did not agree to. I would like to petition God, who Christians claim loves me and I can see as a father figure, to come down and explain the situation to me so I can know what rules we are playing by. If I am unable to get such a quorum, I have to conclude either God is not there, or he simply does not care about my eternal fate and this is some kind of sick joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 "You can't withhold the knowledge of good when you exist in it" Didn't Jesus teach and constantly lament that we are incapable of truly seeing or understanding good/evil? He scolds us repeatedly over it in the scriptures. Its a little like the way adults will scold a child to say "you think you know everything, but you're only a kid!". Christ told us (according to scripture) that this lack of understanding of what is right and what is wrong is the root of our troubles here on earth. He was quite adamant about it in fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: God doesn't want to have anything to do with Sin, why tell humans how to use it? Good question. Why did God put this tree in the middle of the Garden unless he WANTED them to eat it. "Here, my knowledgeless creations, dont eat this fruit I am sticking here right in front of you, k? It wasnt a test. It was an evil practical joke by a moronic creator of the universe. No different than leaving a loaded handgun on a coffee table and telling a 3 year old not to play with it. Poor choice. A parent would go to jail if a kid picked up that gun and used it. Not the kid. THE WISE ADULT. God created people with curiosity/free will then screwed em over when they put those abilities to use. Adam and Eve should have been placed into foster homes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hierophant said: I do not know the rules of this test, matter of fact, I was born into a situation I did not agree to. I would like to petition God, who Christians claim loves me and I can see as a father figure, to come down and explain the situation to me so I can know what rules we are playing by. If I am unable to get such a quorum, I have to conclude either God is not there, or he simply does not care about my eternal fate and this is some kind of sick joke. That ruins the test we are in. Again, the goal is infinity. God can't have people requesting this finite reality be reinstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said: That ruins the test we are in. Again, the goal is infinity. God can't have people requesting this finite reality be reinstated. I do not know what you are trying to say there. Regardless, it is another assertion without supporting evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, midniterider said: Good question. Why did God put this tree in the middle of the Garden unless he WANTED them to eat it. "Here, my knowledgeless creations, dont eat this fruit I am sticking here right in front of you, k? It wasnt a test. It was an evil practical joke by a moronic creator of the universe. No different than leaving a loaded handgun on a coffee table and telling a 3 year old not to play with it. Poor choice. A parent would go to jail if a kid picked up that gun and used it. Not the kid. THE WISE ADULT. God created people with curiosity/free will then screwed em over when they put those abilities to use. Adam and Eve should have been placed into foster homes. Or to make it obvious which tree not to eat from. It doesn't matter, no matter how many times God would have prevented them from eating from it ..they always would have taken it. He sees all possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: We are being tested from within the fallen reality that they caused us to be born in. The parameters of the test are bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said: Or to make it obvious which tree not to eat from. It doesn't matter, no matter how many times God would have prevented them from eating from it ..they always would have taken it. He sees all possibilities. Assertion - you are unable to support this claim. Or if you can, you have not yet. Ad hoc apologetic trying to save the Christian God from looking culpable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, Hierophant said: If, as Christians claim, God created everything. Everything flows from God and nothing exists outside of God, then God is the ultimate designer of sin, explicitly or implicitly. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then he could have created without the possibility of sin while maintaining "free will" that Christians are so fond of. Hardcore Calvinist would state God did create sin and did so knowing the consequences. He did it that he may demonstrate his grace and his wrath. Who he would be trying to impress or show off to is a bit strange. You would think the supreme being of the universe would not care what anyone else thought. I guess we could go into some abstract theology here, but I do not want to get too far off track. This is the same thing as wishing you couldn't think ..free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, midniterider said: The parameters of the test are bullshit. Umm too bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hierophant said: Assertion - you are unable to support this claim. Or if you can, you have not yet. Ad hoc apologetic trying to save the Christian God from looking culpable. This unable to consider what infinity means. This bs is a necessary step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: This unable to consider what infinity means. This bs is a necessary step. I made it past 5th grade math, I am aware of what infinity means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Hierophant said: I made it past 5th grade math, I am aware of what infinity means. How can something physical be infinite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: This is the same thing as wishing you couldn't think ..free will. If my choices are the ability to think, which I assume you mean to be self aware and have some agency interacting with the world around me, and eternal torture, I would gladly pass on the thinking part. Matter of fact, I think life would be much more enjoyable if we just ran on instinct or whatever programming YHWH instilled in us. I would take this any day of the week than anyone go to Hell forever. The idea to me is absolutely grotesque. Nobody, and I mean nobody (yes, not even Hitler or Ted Bundy) deserves to be tortured forever. At some point in time, enough is enough. The punishment has been meted out and it is time to be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, pittsburghjoe said: How can something physical be infinite? Depends on your definition of physical. Just because you do not understand it, doesn't mean it is not possible....I mean, you are talking about a God who is all powerful, surely he could be infinite and occupy infinity at the same time. Ever heard of docetism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 I have some stuff to do around the house. Let me know when you have some evidence to put forth. We can then develop some tests/experiments to substantiate your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittsburghjoe Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hierophant said: If my choices are the ability to think, which I assume you mean to be self aware and have some agency interacting with the world around me, and eternal torture, I would gladly pass on the thinking part. Matter of fact, I think life would be much more enjoyable if we just ran on instinct or whatever programming YHWH instilled in us. I would take this any day of the week than anyone go to Hell forever. The idea to me is absolutely grotesque. Nobody, and I mean nobody (yes, not even Hitler or Ted Bundy) deserves to be tortured forever. At some point in time, enough is enough. The punishment has been meted out and it is time to be done with it. Satan is all about animal instinct. They problem is we are in the situation and now you have to deal with. You don't get to wish it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Hierophant Posted January 30, 2021 Super Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, pittsburghjoe said: Satan is all about animal instinct. They problem is we are in the situation and now you have to deal with. You don't get to wish it away. I answered your question as to what I would prefer. You are right, we are in a situation and if you want to know the truth, we should investigate, not speculate. (That would be a good song lyric) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 By responding to the others you are avoiding answering me, Joe. You talk about the test we are in, but I'm asking you about the test god put Adam through. Please answer the question. Did god make Adam without knowledge of good and evil? Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Please tell the truth about what scripture says, Joe. Did god make Adam without a knowledge of good and evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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