Is scriptural human "spirit", our consciousness and perception of reality?

[◊ Krowb ◊]

4 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

i'm not sure if the lake of fire is infinite or not ...but do you want to find out the hard way?

 

Let's back up a minute and try this approach. Not every Christian denomination believes in a hell; Revelations is either non-canon, or allegorical.  For hundreds of years it was not even accepted as canon by the orthodox.  Yet here you are proclaiming it's not only canon, but literal.  However, we've jumped ahead too far.

 

What is your reasoning to link mandelbrots to the Bible?  Why not Hinduism or Islam?  Are you familiar with their religious claims?  What is the reason you choose the Western, modern (likely Protestant) Bible?

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

3 minutes ago, Krowb said:

 

Let's back up a minute and try this approach. Not every Christian denomination believes in a hell; Revelations is either non-canon, or allegorical.  For hundreds of years it was not even accepted as canon by the orthodox.  Yet here you are proclaiming it's not only canon, but literal.  However, we've jumped ahead too far.

 

What is your reasoning to link mandelbrots to the Bible?  Why not Hinduism or Islam?  Are you familiar with their religious claims?  What is the reason you choose the Western, modern (likely Protestant) Bible?

 

If you actually read the thread you would know i already had this argument ...it's more of a problem for you in that you are forced to choose a GOD ...choose wisely.

[◊ Krowb ◊]

I understand now.  You simply haven't read enough to grasp how to properly form an argument and support it.

 

Until you improve your reasoning abilities there is nothing more to be learned from either side.  You don't understand why we can't understand and it's frustrating to you.  It's equally as frustrating to us that you fail to support your specific argument with anything other than repeating bald assertions.

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

6 minutes ago, Krowb said:

I understand now.  You simply haven't read enough to grasp how to properly form an argument and support it.

 

Until you improve your reasoning abilities there is nothing more to be learned from either side.  You don't understand why we can't understand and it's frustrating to you.  It's equally as frustrating to us that you fail to support your specific argument with anything other than repeating bald assertions.

 

Dude, just read the first four posts.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I skimed through the thread.  I would say anyone who can do this many posts in this amount of time, using the arguments that are being used, is a delusional manic who has probably stopped taking his (or her)? medication.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

i like how you make the rules ...just like what satan offered to Eve.

Look, dude, you lost an argument to some random guy on the internet because you stubbornly tried to defend an untenable position that you hadn't really thought through; and your own argument came back to bite you in the ass.  Making personal attacks and threats about hell isn't going to change that.  It only makes you look like the crusty wad at the back of a 13-year-old jock's sock drawer.  Cool it.

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

i deal with atheists a lot ..but for some reason you ex-Christians display more pride ...i'm not sure what that is about.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

8 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Look, dude, you lost an argument to some random guy on the internet because you stubbornly tried to defend an untenable position that you hadn't really thought through; and your own argument came back to bite you in the ass.  Making personal attacks and threats about hell isn't going to change that.  It only makes you look like the crusty wad at the back of a 13-year-old jock's sock drawer.  Cool it.

 

5 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

i deal with atheists a lot ..but for some reason you ex-Christians display more pride ...i'm not sure what that is about.

So, more personal attacks... good show, there, Crusty.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

19 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

i deal with atheists a lot ..but for some reason you ex-Christians display more pride ...i'm not sure what that is about.

Ex-christians have been in your religious shoes and know your arguments.  Have you been in ours, giving you our point of view?

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

17 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Ex-christians have been in your religious shoes and know your arguments.  Have you been in ours, giving you our point of view?

 

i was a dead spirit for most of my life. i grew up going to Church every Sunday. i know what it means for you say that you thought you Believed ...when you were not an actual Child of GOD. GOD sees the future and doesn't Elect you until it is going to stick ...aka, you were not Elected because you turned away ...GOD couldn't give you any kind of sign.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

The only True Scotsman is an Elected Scotsman.  The rest of ye are a bunch of feckin' amadans. 

[midniterider]

23 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

 

i was a dead spirit for most of my life. i grew up going to Church every Sunday. i know what it means for you say that you thought you Believed ...when you were not an actual Child of GOD. GOD sees the future and doesn't Elect you until it is going to stick ...aka, you were not Elected because you turned away ...GOD couldn't give you any kind of sign.

 

No True Scotsman fallacy. 

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

I skimed through the thread.  I would say anyone who can do this many posts in this amount of time, using the arguments that are being used, is a delusional manic who has probably stopped taking his (or her)? medication.

 

As a layman, I concur. 

[midniterider]

34 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

 

i was a dead spirit for most of my life. i grew up going to Church every Sunday. i know what it means for you say that you thought you Believed ...when you were not an actual Child of GOD. GOD sees the future and doesn't Elect you until it is going to stick ...aka, you were not Elected because you turned away ...GOD couldn't give you any kind of sign.

 

Notice how the Christian spews bullshit from his mouth as if:

 

1.  It's actual fact

2. He is omniscient

3. He knows us personally

 

The Christian speaks as if he is God himself instead of just a peon. This is a great illustration showing that God is really just this guy's imagination. 

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

7 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Notice how the Christian spews bullshit from his mouth as if:

 

1.  It's actual fact

2. He is omniscient

3. He knows us personally

 

The Christian speaks as if he is God himself instead of just a peon. This is a great illustration showing that God is really just this guy's imagination. 

Your corrupted image twisted it ...just like your father.

[Astreja]

3 hours ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

 

i'm not sure if the lake of fire is infinite or not ...but do you want to find out the hard way?

 

I'm prepared to take that chance, RKI.  Because I could never be happy in heaven if even one person was suffering in hell, I took a vow about fifteen years ago to go to hell on purpose* to minister to anyone unfortunate enough to be confined there.

 

I have no intention of reneging on that vow - ever.

 

I reject substitutionary atonement unconditionally.  I do not consent to anyone dying in my place for anything I've done.  I pay my own debts, and if that coin isn't good enough then the debt itself is bogus.  Only a cosmic loan shark would place its "children" in a situation where they could incur a debt they could never repay.

 

I reject the Sinner's Prayer in all its sorry manifestations, because I see it as the real Mark of the Beast - a mindfuck that uses fear to drive vulnerable people into a corner and scare them into slandering their own precious humanity.

 

And I reject your assertion that you're somehow doing us a favour by coming in here and shitting logical fallacies, verbal abuse and lies all over the rug.  Any god that would use the likes of you as a spokesman is a good not worth knowing.

 

* I don't actually believe that such a  place as hell exists.  It's quite obviously a tool of societal manipulation used to scare the peons into subservience.  (I figured that out when I was about seven years old, BTW.)  Nonetheless, if a hell does exist I fully intend to keep my vow regardless.  As I said, how could I be happy in paradise if I knew that someone else was in agony?

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

23 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

I'm prepared to take that chance, RKI.  Because I could never be happy in heaven if even one person was suffering in hell, I took a vow about fifteen years ago to go to hell on purpose* to minister to anyone unfortunate enough to be confined there.

 

I have no intention of reneging on that vow - ever.

 

I reject substitutionary atonement unconditionally.  I do not consent to anyone dying in my place for anything I've done.  I pay my own debts, and if that coin isn't good enough then the debt itself is bogus.  Only a cosmic loan shark would place its "children" in a situation where they could incur a debt they could never repay.

 

I reject the Sinner's Prayer in all its sorry manifestations, because I see it as the real Mark of the Beast - a mindfuck that uses fear to drive vulnerable people into a corner and scare them into slandering their own precious humanity.

 

And I reject your assertion that you're somehow doing us a favour by coming in here and shitting logical fallacies, verbal abuse and lies all over the rug.  Any god that would use the likes of you as a spokesman is a good not worth knowing.

 

* I don't actually believe that such a  place as hell exists.  It's quite obviously a tool of societal manipulation used to scare the peons into subservience.  (I figured that out when I was about seven years old, BTW.)  Nonetheless, if a hell does exist I fully intend to keep my vow regardless.  As I said, how could I be happy in paradise if I knew that someone else was in agony?

 

oh, rad, you make the rules also like everyone else in this thread ...wonder how that is going to work out for you guys.

[Astreja]

26 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

 

oh, rad, you make the rules also like everyone else in this thread ...wonder how that is going to work out for you guys.

 

Quite well, actually.  For one thing, I sleep well at night.  For another, I don't waste time and money on churches.

 

I consider hell to be so absurd and so vanishingly unlikely that I have very close to 100% confidence in my ability to avoid going there.  You, on the other hand, apparently believe that hell is real.  For some reason you seem to think you can trust the god that created it.  Um, no.  If angels can fall, so can you.

 

And as many god-botherers like you are fond of saying, "Eternity is a long time."  Yes, it is.  How long do you think you can keep your thoughts clear of unapproved ideas?  How long before the trap door opens and drops you into your worst nightmare?

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

 

oh, rad, you make the rules also like everyone else in this thread ...wonder how that is going to work out for you guys.

 

Go sell your fear nonsense to someone else...we aint buying. 

 

 

[midniterider]

Here's to you and your silly religion, RKI. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmvVsiztYmY

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@Reborn_Kingdom_Image, do you realize that the very idea of hell disproves the existence of your god?  If god is infinite and god is omnipresent, then how can hell exist as separation from god?  How can god be everywhere, if there is a place where god is not?  If hell exists, then there is a place where god ends and hell begins, which means your god cannot be the Alpha and Omega he claims to be, because your god has a beginning and and ending himself.  Your god begins and ends at the gates of hell.

 

The other way of arguing it is to take a more pantheistic approach and claim that hell is a part of god.  He created hell, so it makes sense.  But, again, how can hell be both a part of god and simultaneously be separation from god?  It comes back to the impossibility of god being infinite and omnipresent.  If there is a literal, physical hell, then god is literally not present everywhere; and if there is a spiritual hell, then god has a spiritual beginning and ending.

 

This is why no one here is really awed or impressed by your threats of infinite suffering.  Because we know that if hell is real, then god can't exist and send us there; but if god is real, then hell ain't.  

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

@Reborn_Kingdom_Image, do you realize that the very idea of hell disproves the existence of your god?  If god is infinite and god is omnipresent, then how can hell exist as separation from god?  How can god be everywhere, if there is a place where god is not?  If hell exists, then there is a place where god ends and hell begins, which means your god cannot be the Alpha and Omega he claims to be, because your god has a beginning and and ending himself.  Your god begins and ends at the gates of hell.

 

The other way of arguing it is to take a more pantheistic approach and claim that hell is a part of god.  He created hell, so it makes sense.  But, again, how can hell be both a part of god and simultaneously be separation from god?  It comes back to the impossibility of god being infinite and omnipresent.  If there is a literal, physical hell, then god is literally not present everywhere; and if there is a spiritual hell, then god has a spiritual beginning and ending.

 

This is why no one here is really awed or impressed by your threats of infinite suffering.  Because we know that if hell is real, then god can't exist and send us there; but if god is real, then hell ain't.  

You know GOD is outside space and time ...you really think GOD can't make a new dimension where He ignores your crys?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

15 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

You know GOD is outside space and time

No.  I do not know that.  Neither do you.  You believe it really really hard; but you don't know it.  And believing really really hard doesn't make it true.

 

But more to the point, if god exists outside of time and space, then (again) god cannot be infinite; because both time and space exist within infinity.  And god cannot be omnipresent; because where time and space begin, god would necessarily end.  Even if you claim that god is spirit and not physical, then for him to exist outside of time and space would mean his spirit must be finite.

 

Remember, at the very beginning of this thread, I told you that you use the word "logic" an awful lot, but you didn't use any actual logic?  This is what I meant.

[Reborn_Kingdom_Image]

5 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

No.  I do not know that.  Neither do you.  You believe it really really hard; but you don't know it.  And believing really really hard doesn't make it true.

 

But more to the point, if god exists outside of time and space, then (again) god cannot be infinite; because both time and space exist within infinity.  And god cannot be omnipresent; because where time and space begin, god would necessarily end.  Even if you claim that god is spirit and not physical, then for him to exist outside of time and space would mean his spirit must be finite.

 

Remember, at the very beginning of this thread, I told you that you use the word "logic" an awful lot, but you didn't use any actual logic?  This is what I meant.

The Spirit is virtual to us ...with all things virtual are Infinite ...go on and keep pretending QM isn't a thing.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

11 minutes ago, Reborn_Kingdom_Image said:

The Spirit is virtual to us ...with all things virtual are Infinite

These are mere assertions on your part, for which you have provided no credible evidence.  You are, of course, more than welcome to believe whatever you would like; but you are not welcome to demand that I also believe it without you first give me a compelling reason for doing so.  You have yet to provide any evidence demonstrating that your god even exists, let alone that he somehow exists outside of infinity (time and space) while simultaneously also being infinite.

 

It has already been established by @walterpthefirst that you don't know anything.  You simply accept by faith.  But faith is not knowledge; faith is believing what you know ain't so, as Mark Twain said.  And I am under no obligation to believe your claims nor accept them on faith myself.

 

So, yeah... go on and keep pretending that QM supports your personal interpretation of the ramblings of bronze age goat herders.