Why Should I Worship Jeezus(tm) And Not Odin?

[monsterfeets]

Even the cross has become null and void to you because you think the cross wasn't good enough to pay for your sins. You point to the gods, but did they actually come here and die for you? Jesus did and loves you.

 

Well I certainly dont think that. If Christianity is true then the cross is certainly good enough. In fact I believe that if Christianity is true, then everyone is going to heaven, because the cross was good enough for -everyone-. Regardless of what they believe. (That is to say, I believe that if there is truth to it then it's symbolical not literal) But I don't believe that anyone is going to send anyone to hell. Ever. People will put themselves through hell, or they will think they are in hell, but there is no place that anyone is locked in and the key thrown away for all eternity. Perhaps some really destructive souls may eventually be destroyed, but not until they've had chances to correct themselves.

 

Yes. My gods did come here, in fact they came directly to me and revealed themselves directly to me, I did not have to find them "through" anyone else or anything else. But I do learn more and more about what and who they are by reading history and other peoples experiences.

 

And by the way. Yes, according to most of the myths, Osiris did live on earth as a man (most of the gods did), die "for us" and was ressurected and became lord of eternity, he now sits on the throne of judgement in the hall of two truths and those whose hearts are good will be granted eternal life through him. He didn't HAVE to. I am not sure if he would have wanted to be torn to peices by his own brother. But if it had not happened we'd just die. Be gone. Osiris provides a means for men to live after death. And he was believed in and worshipped as one of the most important gods in Egypt for thousands of years before Jesus existed.

 

I disagree with monsterfeets when he says Jeezus™ was really a good guy. There is no reason to believe that liar and that cult leader was anything other than an evil creature, playing with people's heads.

Well. I used to see Jesus as a good guy but not anymore. Not in the literal biblical sense anyway. But the vision some people have of Jesus is like the way I grew up seeing him. And that Jesus seems to be just as real to some people as the contradictory crazy man in the bible. To me it's like there are two Jesus'. One that isn't actually based on the bible that people are taught about. The loving long haired hippy jesus. And then the biblical jesus. Both of them seem to be worshipped quite widely. So one hand, one "version" of Christianity is not so bad. The more metaphorical kind that doesn't take the bible literally but sort of just takes all the good parts and makes it into a sort of new age Christianity. Then theres the fundies. And well, we all know what they are like. XD I've been both kinds of Christians, I far prefer the former. I mean I don't take the mythology that I base my spirituality on completely literally by a long shot. It's much more meaningful to me as literature.

And I'm a girl ;3 Hehe.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Sparrow]

Every one!

 

Here's another take on Lord of the Rings:

 

Lord Of the Rings? What?

 

Is this your dumping ground for all half-formed ideas that are bothering the christian collective consciousness? Are you using this forum as a bucket? If so, please just post on a christian site.

 

Amy Marie - please just answer the questions you've been asked.

 

Sparrow

[Asimov]

Some people here are convinced that Jesus is EVIL.

 

I know that horrible things happend in the OT but that was because of the LAW but now mercy has come. Mercy.

 

"Through Moses came the Law. But grace and truth came through Jesus Chrsit."

 

Ok, Amy...it's time for you to put up or shut up.

 

I'm not going to tolerate your evangelizing. This is bullshit. We're in the Colosseum, this is a debate. You're going to concede your points or you're going to leave.

 

Let's analyze:

 

1. Do you believe that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good?

2. Do you believe that Adam was created perfect?

3. Do you believe in the concept of Original Sin?

 

4. Do you believe that humans have a sinful nature?

4a. If yes, do we inherit this sinful nature?

4b. If yes, where did this sinful nature come from?

4c. If no, why do we choose sin?

 

5. In heaven will we be able to sin?

5a. If yes, why wont we?

5b. If no, does this mean we don't have free will in heaven?

 

6. Define Good.

7. Define Evil.

8. Are God's Laws absolute?

 

Answer these questions and once again reveal your incoherency.

[Abiyoyo]

snipped by HanSolo

1. Do you believe that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good?

2. Do you believe that Adam was created perfect?

3. Do you believe in the concept of Original Sin?

 

4. Do you believe that humans have a sinful nature?

4a. If yes, do we inherit this sinful nature?

4b. If yes, where did this sinful nature come from?

4c. If no, why do we choose sin?

 

5. In heaven will we be able to sin?

5a. If yes, why wont we?

5b. If no, does this mean we don't have free will in heaven?

 

Answer these questions and once again reveal your incoherency.[/b]

 

1.Yes.

2.No.

3.No.

4.We wouldnt have law enforcement if not.

4a. I guess, does it matter.

4b. Human desire and wants.

4c. N/a

5. No.

5a. N/a

5b. Not sure what the deal is, never been there.

 

Thanks. JK

[Asimov]

 

Do you expect me to point out your consistencies? Forgive me if I don't until Amy avoids...er...answers my questions. If you wish, I can pm you.

[SkepticOfBible]

Jesus is a FAIR judge.

 

Tell me Amy, what is fairness when people are gonna be punished for their unbelief?

 

I know that horrible things happend in the OT but that was because of the LAW but now mercy has come. Mercy.

 

Ok Amy, please show me verse in the Old Testament which says the law would be dimished. I can show you otherwise

 

Psa 119:152,160

Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Psa 111:7-8

The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

 

Deut 4:2,40

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

 

Lev 19:37

Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.

 

Psa 119:1-4

Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.

They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.

 

 

Show me one verse from the Old Testament which says in the New Convenant(Jer 31)/Messianic age, the law would not be followed, and I promise you now, I will become a christian. The Catholic Church is just two blocks down the road.

[Abiyoyo]

snipped by H

 

 

I am giving a simple explanation for me personally to the topic question. Jesus claimed (according to what we have) to be descendant of the lineage of Israel, and nevertheless worshipped their God, the God of Israel. I believe that He is all portrayed, yet judge as well. There are many other scriptures that would see things on a more positive side, in which I will say this doesnt affect that there were some odd writtings and claims made in general.

 

Anyhow, my question is this, since Jews are one of the oldest worshipers(debatable). Did any of these other people of these myths, legends, writtings, etc. claim to be from the God of Israel?

 

 

 

snipped by H

 

 

Jesus even said that not one tittle of the law will pass away, in which it hasnt. We just arent Jews. We are Gentiles( if comparing) which upholds us to the Jerusalem decree, Biblically, in Acts.

[Abiyoyo]

snipped by H

Do you expect me to point out your consistencies? Forgive me if I don't until Amy avoids...er...answers my questions. If you wish, I can pm you.

 

Nope. We all good Asimov.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Abiyoyo]

 

I am sick to death of scrolling down entire quoted posts just to read a few lines of rebuttal. Either quote only a small, relevant portion of a person's post to respond to or merely address the person by their handle. NO QUOTING OF LONG POSTS. If you will respond to every part of a long post, that's ok - but no quoting a big post to just respond to the end of it. It's fucking irritating, and I ask any mod who catches anyone doing this from here on out to simply delete the post and warn the offender to learn how to use the quote function or else not respond

 

Hey man. You ok. They say anger usually stems from past emotions that have been tucked away deep inside. It will be alright man. And, by the way, you dont fucking own this website, so if if you have a personal problem with a poster, you might want to PM them first.

 

 

 

I don't understand what you are asking. The Jews are not the oldest people to possess religion, if that's what you mean. Judaism is far younger than most other religions.

 

I believe I said that was debatable. Nevertheless, they are substantially old.

 

No Indo-European Heathens or any other Heathens claimed to be from the god of Israel. The Vedic religion of the Aryan tribes who conquered India is many thousands of years older than Judaism, for example. Asatru is also known to be at least 10,000 years old. That predates Judaism significantly. The cult of Akhenaton of Egypt - the first monotheistic religion - is also older than Judaism and is thought to be its inspiration.

 

I understand that, and No( to my knowledge) there are no others that claim to be from the God of Israel.

 

The Old Testament is a measurement of nothing.

 

Thats your opinion. The other legends and myths in my sees are in the same degree.

 

 

But Jeezus, in Matthew 15:24, said "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." That creates two problems. One, Jeezus is recorded as having said that he is doing what he does only for the Jewish people. I'm not Jewish, so on that point, Xianity just plain doesn't apply to me.

 

Now before you start quoting scripture to me, read up first. If you read the Bible looking for validity then there are other scripture that points that Jesus also was a light to the Gentiles and a way for anyone to the Father. Actually, they had that right before Jesus, with Solomon.

 

Second, it flies in the face of any preaching done to the Gentile people and all passages that refer to preaching to the Gentiles, which backs up my biggest problem with Xianity

 

Well, like I said above, there are scripture that point to why the Apostles preached to the Gentiles, after Christs death.

Again, none of this invalidates Odin or any other Pagan god, but it is damning evidence to the Abrahamic ubergod. Again, Odin wins.

 

I never said it did, I just simply asked if these other Gods or "Messiahs" are attributed to the God of Israel. You said no they werent. Thats what I wanted to know.

 

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Ouroboros]

First, I want the mods to heed a request of mine, and everyone else to take note:

Got it. ... I don't have to delete the posts, but remove the large chunk of quote text.

[Abiyoyo]

First of all, YoYo, I'll say what I want because I'm the OP. I have the right to call someone out when they get annoying, and you, young man, are no different.

 

Secondly, try to stay on topic, then. Don't ask dumb questions about things you don't understand if it isn't even intended to be on topic. Try to read the topic before you post, tough guy.

 

And who cares if you believe your myths are true? I am asking for reasons why they are better than Pagan gods, and you, like all Xians, have no answers.

 

Typical Xian - can't even stutter out a proper response to a question without dancing in circles and bringing up stuff that isn't relevant

 

 

Well. Thats great. I really give shit less if your the president. i started a new thread anyhow, if youd like to continue conversating. Your choice.

 

First, I want the mods to heed a request of mine, and everyone else to take note:

Got it. ... I don't have to delete the posts, but remove the large chunk of quote text.

 

 

Hey Hans. I cant help he wrote a book for a topic. I apologize and try harder to be more forum friendly.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Ouroboros]

No problem Yoyo. We just want to save space and make it easier to read.

 

Tip: remove text in the quotes that you're not really responding to, keep on the essential parts, but with care. Sometimes even make a little "snipped" note to show that you removed parts. Just to make it more readable.

 

When a whole page of text is quoted, it's hard to know if I've read that text before or not, and when starting to read it I discover I have, then I skip until I think I find a part that is new, but that means it's easy to miss something.

 

So to keep the quotes short works two fold. Save space, and makes it easier to read.

 

--- note ---

 

Even though you see my name active on the site the whole day long, I leave the computer now and then, sometimes for hour or hours, so don't expect immediate results on certain requests.

[Taphophilia]

 

Even the cross has become null and void to you because you think the cross wasn't good enough to pay for your sins. You point to the gods, but did they actually come here and die for you? Jesus did and loves you.

 

Pride has nothing to do with me telling you the truth especially when there are so many here who are opposed to what I say. It is about caring. I know you don't see it that way, but it is the truth.

 

You see Amy, we don't have any sins. What we have is our own responsibility. I don't have a god or Jesus to forgive my "sins" and make me feel better. I am responsible for my own actions and reactions all by myself. If I do wrong and feel bad, than I alone am the one responsible for righting the wrong.

 

It seems to me that Christians use forgiveness as a cop out for not being responsible for their own actions. They are forgiven and that is all that matters. They, in their minds, aleviate their own guilt with the forgiven card. It doesn't matter who they have hurt or the pain they have caused others, they already have their ticket to heaven.

 

And just so you know Amy, I didn't lose my faith because I was mad at God or any suffering that I went through. I didn't lose my faith because because I had severe doubts in Christianity or that Christians had treated me badly. I didn't lose my faith for any reason that Christians speculate. It started by reading Christian history. I mistakenly thought what I had always been taught was true. I discovered it wasn't.

[Asimov]

Uh...guys, I know I'm the last one who should be saying this, but can you cut the grade-school insults? This is the Colosseum and insults are not allowed.

 

At least MY insults are germaine to the discussion...

 

Thanks.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Abiyoyo]

snip

 

 

Not nessecarily. If you are arrested and are ordered to appear infront of a judge( whom reads the law of the land), and lets say its a jury trial. The judge can( possibily) grant you a pardon, or mercy of the accusation, in lue of making you "you" again to be only controlled by you. So my POV is that there are many deviations even in todays world that reflect the forgiveness of sin or wrong of somesort.

[Asimov]

And just so you know Amy, I didn't lose my faith because I was mad at God or any suffering that I went through. I didn't lose my faith because because I had severe doubts in Christianity or that Christians had treated me badly. I didn't lose my faith for any reason that Christians speculate. It started by reading Christian history. I mistakenly thought what I had always been taught was true. I discovered it wasn't.

 

I couldn't even reply to most of what she said without insults spewing forth automatically....the absolute arrogance of it all.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Abiyoyo]

 

And just because that condition exists doesn't mean it justifies the Xian notion of sin. Sin also comes from the teahcing that humans are inherently wicked because of the Garden of Eden, when we brought sin into the world. Again, more garbage that the so-called "evil" Heathens and their gods lack.

 

 

I agree.

[Taphophilia]

One of the greatest crimes of Christianity is using the concept of sin, hell, and Satan to terrorize yourng children. It is cruel and inhumane to take a child's innocent trust and make them afraid and force them to believe they are bad people because they told they sinful and wicked constantly.

 

We had a Christian on here who compared his four month old baby to Hitler. What kind of a religion is Christianity when followers believe that their babies are evil because they are unable to believe in Jesus?

[Thurisaz]

Amy, Amy... *shakes head*

 

So much posting in this thread (in fact I admit that I just quickly skimmed most of it, lest I spend all day on this single thread ), and still you commit one mistake:

 

You base all your arguments on the unsupported assertion that we can trust the bible.

 

If I missed something due to not reading it all thoroughly, sorry for that... in that case please point me to your explanation of the bible's trustworthiness.

 

If I didn't miss anything and you indeed just take for granted that the bible speaks the truth, please, for crying out loud, understand that you won't get anywhere in this place as long as you operate from that baseless claim. Thank you.